If you are going to use the words . . . then own them.

[Marcelle]

Hi all,

So this morning it is cold and my dog wanted to go for a run during which he slipped his leash and I spent a greater part of an hour chasing him over hill and dale. Huskies are great but on a scale of one to ten for attentiveness . . . minus fracking 20 . But I digress.

So as I was crashing through bush and brush looking for said husky, I got ruminating on a few recent posts about relationships and as always the old "tell / don't tell" debate creeps in with words such as liar, dishonest and whatnot added to the fray. I get it . . . some of you (myself included) have come clean, it worked out all high fives and chocolate cake, lucky us . . . go to the head of class with gold stars all around you. But that is us . . . our circumstances are different from many who water here and this is not a one size fits all . . . time to do Step 5 in the how to cross dress handbook. This is serious stuff and the ramifications of the big tell can be good or . . . oh so bad. Yes by all means share your experiences but seriously . . . calling people dishonest, liars, fake whatever is a bit over the top IMHO.

So I put this to those who like to talk about honesty, integrity in their lives and throw "liar and dishonest" down like some 17th century gauntlet challenge . . . sabres at dawn and don't forget your second. If you truly want to extol the virtue of how honest you are then own it not only in your personal relationship with your SO but with your family, friends and heck why you are at it . . . why not the world writ large?

Oh I know, I know . . many are going to reply with "Oh silly Isha, it is not the same thing". I'm sorry, are you saying it is okay to lie to some people but not others? What, we have graduated degrees of honesty? If so where does it end when it comes to the big reveal: (1) SO only; (2) you siblings only if you like them; (3) your favorite aunt who bought you a cool toy each year; (4) your best friend's brother Bob but only on a Sunday when the penguins move widdershins in the Antarctic. So just when it is okay to not be truthful in your life?

I get it, we are emotionally invested with our SOs on a different level then we are with others. We share our lives and what we do has impact on each other. However if you think you are not emotionally invested with our family and friends or, what you do does not impact them, I will call BS. Don't you think your mom or best friend has the right to hear the truth from you rather than second hand through the rumour mill or accidently walk in on you all dolled up? Don't you think they might feel duped, let down, lied to all these years? Perhaps your best friend doesn't want a CDer near their family because he thinks we are creepy and here you are lying to him all these years while hanging out as his family BBQs. What about your workplace? What happens if they find out accidently you like to play dress-up after they just gave you a big "mucho macho man account" to handle because that is how they saw you . . . mucho macho . . . not femmy femme.

Sounds ridiculous doesn't it? It certainly does. For the most part we don't disclose to family, friends and others because we see no reason to, not to mention the knock on effects of potential loss of family, friends, livelihood, and prestige. After all, we are still the same person so there is no need for these people to know . . . we are not hurting anyone. Could they still find out . . .potentially yes but you'll deal with it when you have to cross that bridge. It doesn't make you a liar or dishonest just someone who has made an active decision to keep something very private to himself.

So what about the closeted CDer who only dresses for a specific reason (feeling good, stress relief, fetishistic, etc.). Goes to great lengths to keep it private, does his thing then goes on to be a loving, caring, supportive husband and father. He doesn't spend the family fortune on panties, heels, skirts and make-up nor is he a moody D-Bag when he can't dress. He is by all accounts the same guy in every sense of the person whom his SO first met and married with the exception of this one private and personal thing he does. So, what is gained by telling? Yes it could work out but there could also be potential ruin of a relationship over something that is a private thing and hurts nobody? If you are going to say the person he is hurting is his SO by not telling . . . why is that? Is that you believe what we do is so reprehensible that it needs to admitted to like some Mafioso providing allocution at their trial prior to passing judgement on them? Or is that by hiding something from his SO there is a fundamental lack of trust now in the relationship. If that is the case then anything either person in the relationship hid or did not disclose can by definition be said to erode that trust no matter who small or well intentioned . . . or is that because cross dressing is so heinous that it trumps all.

In the end, we choose who we come out to based on circumstances prevalent to our life. Some come out to their SOs, others don't . . . their choice. Some come out to family and friends and others don't . . . again their choice. Some will even out themselves to the world . . . choice made. Providing people with guidance on how to come out "should they ask" is one thing . . . attempting to shame someone from a position of moral superiority when you have only travelled a portion of the path with this thing we do IMO is a bit hypocritical. So again I challenge (gauntlet thrown to the ground) . . . if you are going espouse honesty and integrity as buzz words in your life, then commence your own personal allocution to the world writ large before passing judgment on others. However, even doing so would not give you the moral high ground over those who have not come out to everyone . . . it is only a choice you made and not necessarily the choice required of others.

Okay . . . I relinquish the soap box.

Hugs

Isha

[ophelia]

Ah the lie of omission...I can honestly say that everyone who needs to know about my secret passion ...does.
Those with no skin in the game, or who it would affect for whatever reason...doesn't. It is a colourless lie.But until society grows up a hunourmous amount that's the way it will stay.
Discuss amonst yourselves.

[mykell]

morning isha,
is the dog home? or did you give up after an hour.....





iv'e made the choice that works for me.... i never hold it against anyone who chooses differently.....

[Marcelle]

Hi Mikell,

Found him eventually . . . when he slips his leash it is kind of "game on" in his mind then he gets bored and just flops down in the snow and waits for me to catch-up.

[Laura912]

I have never quite accepted the argument that not telling a SO about the CD is some heinous sin and grounds for gnashing of teeth and wearing sackcloth as well as divorce but it has clearly impacted members in just that way. Perhaps as Mikell said, whatever works for that couple or person. It is unfortunate that sometimes nothing works and disaster follows. There is little an individual can do or say that will influence the outcome for another couple so why try? And this discussion has an element of quicksand to it, so I am going to run....click clack click clack....

[bridget thronton]

I too like the need to know position. My wife and kids (and their spouses) need to know and close friends (surprise revelations would be bad). I might have told my parents if they were still alive. Beyond this group, not sure why they need this info if I am not living full-time as a woman.

[Jean 103]

Isha thank you for trying. Some people are judgmental, some open minded, some are prejudice, some caring, mean……… They are who they are and you are not likely to change them. What is private and what is not? If my coworker asks about my weekend and I say I took a weekend trip, am I required to describe what I was wearing. Maybe you have known you whole life or are just finding out about this life as a ________. Some people will not accept you and you may be cast out of their life, game over. Life is not black or white, it is shades of gray. Love Jean

[Lily Catherine]

I also believe in the need to know basis for those entitled to the truth. The word 'hide' has a very blatant negative connotation to it, tied to shame and dishonesty. And shaming can only be done from a high horse.

In my personal experience, I have so far told this group and a chosen few (family and friends) who deserve no sudden revelations / shouldn't have it hidden. Not anyone else's business by any means.

[Jenniferathome]

Isha, your comparison of telling an SO vs the world at large simply doesn't work. All the arguing here is about telling one's SO. That is special, unique, and incomparable case. My brother, butcher nor barber needs to know. I don't have the relationship with them that I do with my wife. Not even close. Everyone will come out at some point. By accident or by choice. At that time, they will be able to be objective about the time withholding.

[Gocaps14]

My SO is don't ask, don't tell....so I am not telling. No one else can make me happy, it comes from inside. I have repeatedly stated here that I feel it's okay to have private time. I feel that for my family this side of me should be private, maybe that will change in the future. It doesn't come from hiding anything or being embarrassed, it comes from many difficult discussions and what she feels comfortable with.

[Nikkilovesdresses]

None of us like being told what to do, least of all from a self perceived position of moral high ground. Plenty of crossdressers deal with shame enough already, without having more heaped on us.

Have you considered trading in the husky for a pug?? My mother had to take her husky back to the breeder- whenever she went out in the garden it kept nipping the backs of her legs and trying to shepherd her back to the house, perhaps in hopes of an early supper.

xNikki

[Leslie Langford]

All good points, Isha, but I think that in the case of a wife or an SO, it really comes down to whether or not the Cder comes clean at some point of her own volition, or else she is "outed" unexpectedly, and in a manner where she doesn't have some control over the narrative.

Those of us who feel that we can keep this secret under wraps indefinitely by being oh-so-careful to always cover our tracks are only fooling ourselves. At some point - and despite our best efforts - we will screw up, or else some expected event totally comes out of left field to expose us. It's not a matter of "if", it's a matter of "when". Call it intuition, or call it the proverbial "sixth sense" but on some level, the women in our lives will eventually just "know".

How our wife or SO will take the news can be the subject of endless speculation, but in the end, we will only know once those fateful words have left out mouths. As they used to say in those old Fram oil filter commercials "Pay me now, or pay me later..."

[Tracii G]

Deff on a need to know basis in my world.
How is it a lie if you don't tell people? I never quite understood that line of thought.
What I do is my business, some know and some don't.

[phylis anne]

Hey Isha ,That was very well said ,and as a former alaskan and dog musher well--------- huskies just wanna ruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuun! anyway here is my take


Yes I keep my self secret , as I do not want to tear up the family even at 60 yr old it is still a concern . I do not brood over it and go what about me and my feelings? . I have friends far and away from here who know and when I do go out it is annother local area so as not to create a situation of having to "explain" . I have 2 members of my family my daughter and my elderly mom who would understand ,however the rest would not ,so for the greater good I keep from all ,and find that I am not as stressed that way although lately I have been dropping some hints to test the waters ,in the end do the best for your own situation as only you and you alone know where your comfort zone is ,

[GretchenJ]

Hi Isha,

Just want to say a big thank you for putting together a well thought out and compassionate plea for those like me which are on the other side of the total disclosure defense! You did not to have to, because you and your SO are in total acknowledgement of what you do - but for me it is totally appreciated.

To me, ( and I am just talking about me, and no one else ), I see no scenario in which "the talk" goes well for either me or my wife.

Worst case scenario, my wife who I know for almost 30 years and love with all my wife , breaks up, so I live alone as a CD.

Next worst scenario, we live a DADT relationship, but my wife is smart and will know that any time we are apart, that the proposition of what I am even possibly doing will always be on her mind and eventually come to a head.

Or she is totally accepting of my condition, and allows me the opportunities as they come up. But she did not sign up for this, and she will try to be on board and even try to help me get out. But when the wig is back in the closet, our relationship will not be the same, and I love my relationship.

When me an my wife were going out, and if I know that this was going to extend beyond an occasional fetish (as it was in the early 1980's - before the Internet and all the crossdressers that I knew were the Las Vegas drag queens ) I would have told her and let the chips fall where they may. Am I guilty about this, ABSOLUTELY !! , there have been more than a couple of sleepless nights.

For those who have told there SO and the relationship works, I am very very happy for you guys ( no sarcasm intended). But I am not guilty, because that would assume that I would want a different relationship than I currently have with my wife ( and my best friend ) and that simply isn't true.


At the end of the day, I would not tell another member on this forum to tell there SO, or would I tell them to keep it a secret. I would not call them a cheater, a liar, a coward for not disclosure ( like I would be in a position to say that ! ), nor will I call someone stupid for telling and the relationship has gone bad, nor will I call them brave for having the talk.


i WILL offer best wishes and good luck for those who decide that they will tell their SO, I will offer my ear to listen and my shoulder to cry on (virtual shoulders and ears) when the relationship does not survive the talk. I will be truly happy for those whose relationship grows stronger as a result, and I will help to talk to those still in the closet and try to console and minimize the guilt of others.


Hugs to you Isha and a deep and profound thank you !
Your friend
Gretchen

[Isabella Ross]

Isha, I love your Saturday morning soapbox stints. They're thought-provoking and intriguing. Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean I agree with all of them. Instead, I'd agree with Jennifer that it's a completely different thing to share your complete self with an SO, and revealing yourself to the world at large. Yes, in the spirit of doing something that's beneficial in the long run for all of us TG folk, we should out ourselves to the world. The problem is that, for most of us, doing this would have significant negative impacts on our life -- it could jeopardize our standing in our communities and neighbourhoods, restrict our ability to make a living, etc. But revealing to an SO (and even family members) is, in my opinion, something that's important for our mental health and self-acceptance. And it's also important to our SOs...it's the dishonesty of having a life secret from the person we share our lives, days and beds with that is ultimately so destructive when we're accidentally outed (and yes, I think that is bound to happen in the majority of instances). Can't wait for the counterpoint...

[Nadine Spirit]

I don't tell everyone in the world what my wife and I do "in bed." But you know who does know what happens in my bedroom, my wife.

I have told many people in my life, but not everyone. And I don't care if people think that is lying. For the only person that it does matter with is my wife. So much so, that there was never the thought of not telling her.

As I have discovered me, so has she.

[vicky_cd99_2]

Isha that was well put girl. We all have different circumstances we face. It took 20 years before I came out to my wife. It was all sunshine and roses, not a chance. It took sometime for her to come to accept that this is who I am. She also knows it will never go away. We are still together 16 years past out date. She did reveal to me that when I came out of the closet to her I threw her in it.

No one else knows anything about me. I live a seriously double life. I am around 1% patch holders a lot of the time. It could be physically harmful if outed. We all have our own demons we must face. I will not judge anyone of you for your situation as I hope I am afforded the same courtesy. We all have to live our lives as we see fit to. As long as our decisions do cause anyone else harm, what others think about should be no one elses concern.

[Jason+]

Isha's point is one I have pondered a lot myself. The basic question is "Are you honest without telling all if you advocate telling some as honesty?"

My parents through my life have told me they were proud of this or that. For a long time in the back of my head before they knew I would hear a voice asking "Oh yeah, would they still be proud if the knew what you were wearing?" I had figured even if my wife was comfortable with me in a skirt in our hometown (she's not) I wouldn't do it out of respect for them and the life they have built. Later after I talked to my Dad about it he said two things that stood out. "We want you to come home even if it's in a dress. A little warning would be nice but we want you any way we can get you." He also said that if putting on a skirt or dress is the worst thing I do I must be pretty okay.

The last decade I was in the Navy I didn't hide it although I didn't broadcast it either I just dealt with it as it came up. At my current job they see the (formerly) long hair and fingernails and on a rare occasion or two polish on the nails. According to CA law, Corporate Stated Policy and the training I could wear a skirt to work under gender expression or "not conforming to expected gender normals" they could not only not take negative action against me for it no one would be allowed to tease or harass me about it. CA is also an "at will" employment state leaving uncountable reasons to let a body go besides some non-conformism and the burden of proof would be on me. Not having a job make that a little more difficult.

Is it fair of me to "impose" myself on group "Q" and not group "W?" Is it dishonest of me not to trumpet it from the south tower of the data center rather than offer people when asked about my weekend plans the quarter truth that "I'm going to dress in drag and bother Thespians!" and wait for the eventuality that a customer or coworker (some know) will see and say something to my employer? (Keeping in mind that what I do isn't capable of or intended to be drag quality. )

I will add operational risk management to the already stated need to know. In deciding if someone needs to know beyond just encountering me by chance in public I try to look at what the potential risk is to them (and me) and the likelihood of that risk happening. Whether that is "true honesty," ORM or a dose of good ol' grade A garden variety BS is something I ponder and pick at an mull over fairly often. The accurate answer will probably be expressed in terms of percentage.

[grace7777]

Now I am single, but I think a marital relationship is different from other relationships. You make vows and commitments that you do not make in other relationships. Also the costs of ending a marital relationship, financially and emotionally is much greater than almost any other relationship. Because of this I think a marital relationship requires more disclosure than most others.

In other relationships I think it depends on the closeness of the relationship and the need to know. With most people we know, they do not need to know and often do not even want to know.

Now my mother is someone I now feel I need to tell,and I struggle with the fact that I did not tell her over the holiday season when visiting her. I do feel guilty about not doing it. Hopefully in the future I will tell her.

If I had a friend who hated people who crossdress, I think I would not consider them much of a friend any more, and would try to avoid future contact with them.

I have now decided that if someone asks me to the effect, do I dress up as a woman, I will either say yes or I will decline to answer the question. This way I am not lying to them. Recently someone I know asked me if I crossdressed, and I told her I did, and showed her my profile on this website. She had no problem with it.

[JessicaJHall]

"sabres at dawn and don't forget your second.

LOL.
Excellent post Isha. I agree it's not fair to criticize others who are just trying to balance their lives (if that's what you are saying? If not set me straight). I think like any group with a single thing in common, we should really try to understand we have our own individual paths to follow, that are just as diverse as all other humans are. We share another tendency with humankind at large in that we will gravitate to the idea that what works for us, should work for everyone else, and may even get frustrated when they are less than receptive to the idea. Or that we know what is best for the "hive".
For me, the perfect balance involves not involving others just yet, and I am experiencing a time in my life that can only be described as transcendent, with my forays into femulation as a small, but significant component.
That boat may get rocked accidentally, but I have prepared myself for that, and I can accept the consequences.

And those who think that not disclosing going into a relationship is lying, cheating, etc., well they might want to look at the things they may have left out going in. For example, maybe they don't really like sex or certain types of sex that they were willing to engage in before they got hitched. Is that a lie? Or maybe they have appetites for unusual things, narcissism, sociopathic tendencies, addictions to drugs, alcohol, food, exercise, anorexia, bulimia, sex, to name a few. Or maybe they really wanted someone else, and feel they missed out?

Now that I think of it 100% honesty is not only rare, but just might be the enemy of the healthy relationship.
Not that sharing can't be a wonderful thing, depending on the situation.
Oh, and how about discussing past relationships? Anyone keeping it 100% honest? And if so, hows that working for you?

[harmony]

i see myself as an open book.i wont volunteer my innermost secrets but if you would ask me a direct question i would answer truthfully.my uppermost concern in telling people is wether THEY can handle it.i know,having accepted myself that i can.

[pamela7]

Thank you, and well said Isha,

I'm right in the middle of the quandrary of disclosing, already have to my SO, mum, daughters and couple of others.

What I want to do is to dress all the time, that's now clear to me, and obviously that has an affect at work and locally. I could/probably would lose clients, clearly a financial impact, perhaps I'd gain new ones though. My daughter tells me i'm more approachable dressed, so maybe it works.

It's not a lie to hide what goes on in the bedroom, cos frankly, everyone does. Being a therapist, I can safely say there's nothing left to shock me about humans. It's not relevant to most jobs to know about sexual orientations/habits imo, and if prejudice is going to affect prospects - it does - then by all means keep it quiet.

So, the real thing about us, is our desire to wear the clothes. If there's nothing else different, it does not have to change the perception of anyone else. Or perhaps it does, perhaps coming out will help make society more tolerant not less?

xxx Pamela

[kimdl93]

Lying, to varying extents, is as much a human feature as written language and tool making. I'll allow that sometimes a lie can be the most humane, safe or profitable option. Of course, we all know that deceit comes with risks, sometimes massively heavy ones, and can be corrosive of ones self worth.

I still have a hard time with the assertion that a truth not told constitutes a lie. Non disclosure can be benign or deliberately destructive. I can withhold information to protect myself or another person, or withhold information that could keep someone else from harm. It's my prerogative. Each truth told or untold, anything consciously shared or withheld has the potential for good or ill.

But then life is risk. If you want to be coldly analytical, this is all an imprecise game of risk management. Weighing the risk of voluntarily sharing or concealment is a personal assessment of that risk. If one deems the likely reaction to be seriously adverse, the personal emotional burden bearable and the risk of discovery relatively low, then one may reasonably choose nondisclosure as the course that seems to have the lowest potential cost. Time will tell.

[Gillian Gigs]

I sum it up by says do they need to know. Will knowing, or not knowing make any major difference in the relationship? I have personal things I don't tell others, like how much money I have in the bank, the acct. number and pin numbers. To thy own self be true, some things are best left unsaid and only the individual can determine that.