Some keep their neotenous features. I certainly do not need any FFS.
Some keep their neotenous features. I certainly do not need any FFS.
I can't imagine being able to afford FFS.
I'm not sure I'd want it either.
Rogina, I feel you are being very unfair to people. Everyone one makes the best of who they are. We all come in all shapes and sizes. Close inspection of the individual's skills should be the priority.Originally Posted by Rogina B
Anyone conducting an interview should be looking for the best person for the job. I was once asked to stand in at the last minute for a colleague. One person who was in the waiting area as I passed had me a little confused. It was only later that i was to discovered this person was male as they came in for the interview, and yes they did get the job.
Last edited by Shelly Preston; 02-14-2015 at 06:51 PM.
Honey... I have not had one ounce of FFS. I was read as female before I even started transitioning. I worked for Wal-mart back when I started. When I came out as transsexual, there were some things that astonished me. This being the most as it deals with three different groups. These three groups all consisted of women and one group had a few guys in it. In on break all three of these groups came and sat with me at my table. The first group commented that they knew something was up and they considered me either gay or trans. The second group considered me female already, but were afraid to say anything in fear of upsetting me that they considered me female or in their words a transsexual just an FTM that was really horrible at being male. The third group said that they were absolutely oblivious to the whole fact, but they did think I was weird and pretty feminine, but still considered me male. One of the girls said that they thought I was an FTM transsexual because of my voice. It wasn't deep at all and sounded really feminine. Once I started transitioning everybody and their dog wanted to be my friend and everyone claiming that they already knew. To be honest I don't believe anyone really knew, but I do believe that they considered me female because the same thing happened to me at the store before this last one I worked at and the girl came out and bluntly asked me if I was really a girl and this was while I was still married and hadn't even though about transitioning then.
This whole that thought you most definitely can't pass without FFS is bull and I can personally testify to that. I haven't had any voice training, mannerism training, how to walk like a woman training. The only thing I had to really learn was "Makeup". All I really have to say to this thread is be "Yourself" and don't push it, just let it flow. I don't ever think about how I'm transsexual and how I need to "Pass" better. I just do what I do and go with it. That's one thing that I can definitely tell you will work is to just go with it, wing it if you have to, but don't worry about whether it works or not it will naturally come in time
Rogina- You and I have almost always been on the same page. Your FFS comment was off the mark, and unfair. No one in my trans social network (real life. Some of my facebook friends have) has had FFS, we all live, and work as women, with no one calling us out on that. Are we all passable? No idea. We are certainly accepted by our peers as, well, whatever we are, and that's ALL that counts. I've not had FFS, and my dentist had both her mitts in my mouth for twenty minutes before I told her I was trans. She was flabbergasted, and said she had no idea. My jeweler made two wedding sets for us, and still thinks we are just an adorable gay couple.
Angpai30- I didn't have lessons, or coaching in female comportment, or speech. I just stopped acting male, and the woman inside busted out, an took over. I think among us true TS's this is quite common. Keep up the good work.
Passing is overrated anyways because you don’t see women trying to pass as women. They know who they are and they OWN it. Passing is nothing when you know exactly who you are and Own it, believe it and use it to your advantage.
I have followed Corrine's post for a good while and I meant no harm from what I said. Given her situation,making her way as a confident Transgender woman is a realistic approach.It is unrealistic to think that she will go from her present life to that of a "stealthy TS". Then there is the paperwork issues... It really doesn't matter what jobs she goes after and hopefully takes on right now,as she is in flux and will be making many adjustments in the coming years..Just to have the confidence to get out there is the most important part.
I am surprised with the responses to what Rogina wrote. I did not find what she wrote to be unfair, hurtful or inaccurate. Most TS women are not going to be entirely passable without it, and even then many still wont be. People may be polite and accepting and gender you correctly but it does not mean that none of them can tell you are trans. Maybe most people wont realize I am trans but on occasion I am still mis gendered randomly by people that don't know me - I am not entirely passable. I still live as a woman and move forward in my life, get jobs, pay bills do all the rest, as should Corrine
Last edited by arbon; 02-15-2015 at 05:35 PM.
FFS is good in its own way, really important for some and not needed for others, everyones different. But don't think it is magic either. It takes many things to pass and the face is not the most obvious.
All I ever wanted was to be a girl. Is that really asking too much?
I'm not offended, what I'm getting is confirmation that the road will have bumps for everyone and I'm no different.
What has taken me by surprise was how much faster the physical aspect is happening than I expected and all those small, measured steps I were taking now require much larger leaps due to changes in my circumstances.
For example, instead of coming out to my father when I'd be moved out and more comfortable, I may have to do it much earlier while I still live here and face potential awkwardness for a long time.
It took months, maybe even over a year, before I was really accepted by my mom and I really didn't want to potentially go through that again.
I'm not gonna lie, those are some scary leaps since they are one of the most important ones and so far I've done this completely alone IRL aside from the support of my therapist.
E:
Despite all the crap, all the setbacks, all the everything, it's been totally worth it just to forget the last time I had an internal identity crisis.
I seriously don't remember when it last was and for that I couldn't be happier.
Last edited by whowhatwhen; 02-16-2015 at 12:07 AM.
Same as me, my confidence and self esteem was almost 0. You mentioned previously about using female toilets or was it changing rooms??
Either way there must come a point when you make a decision to step over the line, so you decide to use the female changing rooms and your scared and don't feel ready? Well you put your head up and walk in as if you belong there, you don't show the rest of the world how you feel inside. People think I am way more confident than I was, after a while it becomes the norm and you no longer think of it.
I know the approach you have but I can't see how it's going to end without being messy, set yourself a fulltime date and go with it.
You can't be fulltime until you face the world as a woman, all the time and with relevant ID. So your not fully passable and people read you as male? Well that's how it is for most of us, it's part of the journey. Right now according to your messages, you are living as a male that could be mistaken for female. That's very different to living as a woman that could be mistaken for a man.
Going back to toilets do you now use female? I'm assuming not seeing as your still not out to your father.
Is finding employement more crucial right now than going fulltime? If employement is then you need to make a choice. Look for a job as a guy that is feminine and own it or look for a job as Corrinne and own it.
If not, then hold off till you are secure in your new gender role.
The question needs to be asked, is fulltime right for you? If you can't remember the last time you had an identity crisis and you feel happier, could you be content to live on the middle path?
You're right actually.
When it comes down to dirt I've still been living as male, albeit not accentuating that but still.
My original plan was to keep things low key until the pass rate hit around >75% but circumstances changed and now I have to start at ~50%.
The bathroom issue was basically "Am I passing enough to not upset women?" vs "It's probably not safe anymore to use the men's room."
I'm sure quite a few other transwomen have this struggle so I wasn't too worried about overcoming it eventually.
The employment issue is kinda like the bathroom one, "am I meeting people half-way?" That's more of a confidence thing as well I think. You're right though, I might have to wait until I have all the documentation changes.
Fulltime is definitely my end goal, unfortunately I keep putting superficial expectations of others above my own needs.
It's not just in regards to transition either, I end up giving up things and putting my own needs last just to keep peace.
It's pretty hard to "ease" into it. No matter what you do there is a period that is a bit awkward. Getting clocked does serve a purpose though. It tends to toughen us up a bit which is good because it gets harder. Once you pull the pin on the tranny grenade it gets hard to hide.
All I ever wanted was to be a girl. Is that really asking too much?
Confidence is FAR more important than "passing". I personally know of transwomen who seemingly "pass" well physically, yet they get misgendered, face public mocking or stares or ridicule, and aren't accepted as women by others. I also personally know of transwomen who don't pass very well physically, but they rarely, if ever, face any problems in public, and are accepted by others as women.
Owning yourself will carry you much further in this world than will passing physically alone, and will make your life much happier if you are confident in yourself.
If you're thinking to look for work as a male who gets clocked as female, I will say this. Either way, you're going to have to cross this bridge and come out and transition.
If you find work as a male, you might face these problems.
1. Have an easier time finding a job by virtue of being male and cis
2. Get a bigger paycheck by virtue of being male
3. Get read as female, and therefore outed as trans
4. Eventually reach a point where you can't pass at all as a male
5. You'll have to come out and transition on the job
6. Risk getting fired after you come out, and then you're back to your job search again
7. Have your bosses and co-workers get to know you as a male, and then they have to re-gender you as female, and they might have trouble accepting you as a female because of their pre-conceived notions of you being male
8. Suffer miserably because you're pretending to be someone you're not for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, plus commute and overtime. Assume you won't be able to change your clothes anywhere but at home. And imagine how awful it will be to be called by a male name and male pronouns.
9. Everyone might still wonder what's going on because you already pass as female
Or, you could find work as a female, and
1. Have a harder time finding work, by virtue of being female and trans
2. Get a smaller paycheck because you're a female
3. Get read as male, but they already know your trans
4. Know that you'll eventually pass better as time goes on
5. You've put coming out at work behind you
6. Know that you're job is relatively safe because they already hired you knowing you're trans
7. Have your bosses and co-workers get to know you as a female, and even if a few don't accept you, most likely will, since their first impression of you is female, even if you don't pass
8. Be more productive, happier, and focused, because you're able to be your authentic self. You'll be content being called by a female name and female pronouns.
9. Will it matter what anyone thinks, because you already came out when getting hired?
I don't know where in Ontario you live, but if you're in a major city, you will likely have a good chance of finding work. I have a little anecdote.
A friend of mine came out as trans to her job last year. She was still presenting as male, and her job told her that it is okay, but if she dresses as a woman that she won't get the higher paying gigs. Eventually she lost her job. She was struggling to pay the bills and was contemplating finding work as a male, because she was so broke. Shortly thereafter, she found a new job. Her new job pays more than her old job, and she goes to work as a woman. Her job is very customer facing, and is not retail - it's in a corporate office. I just love success stories like this one.
The difference between your roommate's story and my friend's story is the difference between California and Texas. California isn't perfect, and there are transphobic employers in California, but there is a better chance of finding a trans accepting employer in California.
I would probably think that technical, non-customer facing, behind the scenes jobs, as well as retail, tend to be more accepting towards trans people. It is generally non-retail customer facing jobs, as well as very high male privilege jobs, that won't hire you if you're trans. Most of those jobs only want aggressive cis-gendered straight males. I think female-dominated professions would have a better chance hiring you than male-dominated ones (except tech/engineering which are male dominated but will still hire you)
I've finally mastered the art of making salads. My favorite is a delicious Mediterranean salad.
NEVER think in terms of someone GIVING you a job.
When an employer hires you, it's because they believe that you will be a valuable asset who will help the company make bigger profits.
One of the first trans-women at IBM was fired by her manager when she transitioned. She went on to win 75 patents essential to IBM's business - for a major competitor. After that, IBM made it a policy to protect ALL diversity including Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender. In fact, every employee is required to complete diversity certification every year. Many other companies have similar diversity programs.
Keep in mind that as a trans-woman, you may be giving them double or triple EEOC points. I'm transgender, a woman, and lesbian. The fact that I also have outstanding performance and have played a part in $billions worth of sales and contracts, also helps.
Back in 1989, I was forced to resign from a company in which the VP of IT was ex-navy and wanted to "get that faggot out".
In the 2 years at that company, I'd already won 2 awards for increasing net profit by $1 million A DAY and less than 2 months after I left the company won the Malcolm Baldridge award, largely for work in which I played a key role. I went on to work as a consultant, netting clients $billions in annual profit.
Even my clients realize that I have some unique perspectives that can be incredibly valuable and should not be ignored.
Don't think in terms of why an employer should not hire you - you will be right. Before you go to an interview, think about what you can do to help that potential employer make more money - more revenue or more provide through lower expenses.
If you just ask for $1 million dollars, the answer will probably be no. If you offer to show them how to make $100 million dollars and they will only have to pay you $1 million dollars if it actually works, they will almost certainly say yes.
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I believe you're referring to Lynn Conway who is a double-hero of mine (I'm an electrical engineer by training.) Not only is she an amazing transwoman, she also made significant contributions to the design of VLSI circuits. Her story is definitely worth reading to see how she overcame incredible prejudice and huge personal loss to live an authentic life.
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