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Thread: Communication and moving forward: All observations welcomed - GGs encouraged

  1. #26
    Claire Claire Cook's Avatar
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    Isha dear,

    Again you have written what should be a core post (yes, make it a stickie!) My big take on what you have written is that too often we see this as "me" and not often enough as "us". Shaedow's very touching post (yes, girl, you got to me with that one) really drove that home for me. It's funny, but both my wife and I agree that I'm much more communicative (and easy to talk to) when I'm in my comfy clothes. (Maybe that's in part due to my shedding that hide-bound, uptight male exterior?)

    Paula, we've learned so much from your experience, and your post is a great addition to this conversation.

    Thank you all for this thread.

    Hugs,

    Claire
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Proud member of the Lacey Leigh Fan Club

  2. #27
    its important mykell's Avatar
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    well laid out Isha,

    as DADT has been added to the equation i think i have something to share here, after my initial reveal it was agreed that DADT was the best way to move the relationship forward.
    she new i dressed, she new i bought my own things, she new i was a member of some online group, we wished to keep it PRIVATE, and i was not to leave the house dressed...i moved all my things into a closet in our office, installed a lock so it stayed private......initially i think she agreed to this as a comfort for the "now" and i knew it would not work for me in the long term, but neither of us had packed our bags, autopilot for the time being....

    so after our arraignment went on their were needs/wants i wished to pursue and nothing was going to be done on the sly, i had to talk/express my wishes and concerns, a dialogue needed to happen, almost as difficult as the initial reveal but it was done,(help from support of members) made my point of why, (no more hidden truths, no assumptions) and discussed the things i wished to do....i cut the conversation short as the reception was cold....and made the case for the rest at another time....so were past DADT....it can happen

    as for communication i have three letters in my closet with explanations for family members, reassurances for my wife along with a flash drive with a folder of copied threads and a folder with my photos....so communication will be eternal....

    these may have been touched upon but i made a list....

    do's : reassure you SO that in no way is CDing caused by something they did or did'nt do.
    do: plan for the worst so your ready with the difficulties should you receive they're negative reaction.
    dont's : conversation is important but dont push beyond the SOs comfort level, if they become agitated/unreceptive finish up what has been discussed / agreed upon and save any more concerns for another time. (they may chose to not initiate in the future, so chose a time when to breach the subject carefully)
    dont : assume they will get on board with open arms and take it all in stride, it will most likely be a work in progress.
    dont: assume that DADT means ANYTHING GOES cause they do not want to know, this will most likely not go well.

    the best analogy i can think of for our SOs is the old western one "you can lead a horse to water, but you cant make them drink"
    so you can give your SOs all the pertinent information you can gather together, present it, reassure them, maybe type it out and leave it with them in letter form if your not comfortable discussing your thoughts , but the ultimate acceptance is up to them, you cant force it, you can just try to be a better composer of the information you wish to share....
    ....Mykell
    i dressed like a girl and i liked it! crossdressing...theirs an app for that

  3. #28
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    Thank you for a great post, and thank you all for the insight shared.
    I have only recently come out to my wife, after 28 years, and he information I have gained from the post has been invaluable in the approach I have taken in communicating with her. And I honestly believe that the positive outcome I am experiencing is solely due to me following the advice given.
    Again Thank You All
    Dianne

  4. #29
    Silver Member Tina_gm's Avatar
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    One of the main reasons why I am on this forum Dianne is because I wish to be able to keep my marriage intact, but not only that but continue to make it a good marriage and an even better one. Being a CDer though is a big challenge to marriage generally, not always for some, but generally it is, and is for my marriage. Many have offered great advice because they and I have all been there. We know what we have done right, what we have done wrong.... (even lil of perfect me has goofed on occasions) but with such great advice, only know that it is for additional insight, to help consider things you may not, or not consider things you may be considering. Ultimately, your marriage and how it all works for you and your wife is unique to you. There are some very accepting GG's here in many ways, but there are certain things they may not find easy that my wife does, and vice versa. My wife is actually more ok with my general femininity (she does have limits....) than what many accepting GG's who can see their partners dress, or participate and go out with them. Take life as it comes to you.
    Chickens should be allowed to cross the road without having their motives questioned

  5. #30
    Mountain Lass
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    As a GG I would like to throw in something the OP missed. Before you can have communication you have to have understanding.

    What strikes many GGs about your reveal is complete shock followed by the devastation to their self-esteem and sexuality. Rebuilding herself as to what your new identity makes her can take years for many women. During this time there is no opportunity for meaningful communication. You want to talk wigs and makeup; she wants to be able to leave the house knowing there is a relationship to come back to at the end of the day that involves the man she married. Until education takes hold she can have no meaningful response to your desire for her to offer makeup advice or accompany you out while dressed!

    She cannot quantify your desire to be considered as another woman in the relationship and until you can offer reassurances about your future together (which does not include you being her girlfriend!) you are both on very sticky ground.

    The point at which many women are able to reconsider their response is when children become independent. The biggest difficulty then is your justification for the time spent and the fact that cross-dressing is not a good spectator sport for your SO: all the enjoyment is on your side.

    Communication is a two-way street. In my relationship it is the cder who operates DADT! While you may consider an accepting SO convenient have you ever stopped to think what it cost her along the way? Yes, being the man for her when she needs you is a good idea, but how many of you actually manage even that?

    If your SO is at the stage of having to re-build her self-esteem and stop questioning her own sexuality, maybe you are the one in need of some education......

  6. #31
    Member Katie Russell's Avatar
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    Thanks for your post Allsteamedup.

    It helps me to understand why my wife hasn't been open to communications for these last couple of years. I am aware that it would be a time of adjustment for her and I have tried to give her this space by not constantly raising the subject. I'm of the opinion that when she is ready she will open up communications.. I have kept my CDing out of site during this period and have continued to act in exactly the same way towards her as I have always done. In someways it's as if the conversation never happened. I appreciate that the crunch time will probably be when the children are independent as at the moment they take up so much of our time as a couple.

    Katie

  7. #32
    Junior Member SandraB's Avatar
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    Isha:

    This is one of the great threads worth well beyond the price of admission. I have nothing to add other than my full endorsement of all the views expressed by the contributors to the thread. The insights so honestly and unselfishly shared by fellow members based on their own real experiences is testament to the supportive community we're all part of here. This one's a keeper!

  8. #33
    Member Katie Russell's Avatar
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    Hi

    I've been thinking about Allsteamedup's comments an trying to put it into a perspective that I might understand.

    The best I can come up with is:

    Your wife has an affair. After a long conversation and much soul searching you decide to forgive her and make a go of your marriage. It will take time to come to terms with what has happened, you feel sick to the stomach, betrayed and you'll need to rebuild your self esteem. You know that time is great healer and life needs to return to normal for you to feel confident again. What you don't want is your SO continually referring to her ex-lover, how he did this or that. How he made her feel great etc. That would not only be insensitive but could destroy any future hope for the marriage. If you want to know any details, such as why, when etc you'll ask but you want her to keep quite about it.

    Is that how many of our SO feel? If it is then I think that many of us could relate to that. That's why a DADT relationship can work. It allows time for her to heal in her own time. I don't think you need to communicate about your CDing unless asked. What you do need to do is reassure her that you are still the man she married, make her feel loved and that she is special to you. That communication is great and will help to build those bridges.


    Katie.

  9. #34
    Senior Member Nikkilovesdresses's Avatar
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    Good solid advice, and I enjoyed your touches of humour. I agree with Sandra that this thread should be kept and I think it should be made readily accessible to new members, who often need pointers on when/how/why to tell their SOs.

    Good on ya.
    I used to have a short attention spa

  10. #35
    GG/SO of a CD
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    I echo many of these thoughts in my "tips to an SO acceptance thread". Made a sticky a long time ago. I think both that and this should be stickies and live on for forever as solid advice. People often come to this forum because shit just hit the fan, or they are too afraid of what to tell their SO's.

    Communication is the key to everything. Not just talking about CDing. When there is a communication breakdown in the relationship, relationships cannot stay strong. They falter and wave. Needs, wants, desires, fears, issues, successes, all need to be communicated to your partner.

    If the only time you ever sit down and have a thought out talk, is to talk about CDing, then there is a communication breakdown in all other aspects of life.

    I often wonder when people haves these "coming out sessions" with their SO's, if this is the first time that they have sat down and had an important conversation with their SO of this nature. This alone would startle a SO, (why is this happening now, this sit down is so serious, etc etc). Where as I think people who are succsessful have been having these hard conversations about other topics for a long time, and this is just another one added to the bunch.
    ~Greenie

    Supportive wife to a wonderful man who just so happens to like to be fabulous some times.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenie
    Where as I think people who are succsessful have been having these hard conversations about other topics for a long time, and this is just another one added to the bunch.
    What you say here is probably true, although in my case, my wife and I had been together 17 years of marriage, and we had resolved many serious problems together, and had had many, many very serious talks. Our communication was quite good, except for this one topic...

  12. #37
    GG/SO of a CD
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    I agree there are always deviations. There are women who wont be able to handle the CD/Trans thing at all, no matter how much you communicate about it. But then you need to look at the fact that, you had been married for X amount of years and then "suprise!" I changed my identity. When a Cder or trans person changes their identity, if their SO does not therin want their identity changed as well, it doesn't matter how much you communicate. I am okay with lucas being a CDer, if he decided he needed to transition, I honestly could say that is something I would not be okay with, and no amount of conversation in the world could change the fact that I didn't want to be married to a trans woman. I think Ishas thread is CD specific though. So I will try to keep it to that.
    ~Greenie

    Supportive wife to a wonderful man who just so happens to like to be fabulous some times.

  13. #38
    Gone to live my life
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    Hi Greenie,

    Yup it was more related to CDing but the same can applied to those who plan to transition or are not sure when they first come out. I did kind of touch on the subject near the end of my post in that "sometimes change is a bridge too far which the SO or CDer cannot cross" I think at this juncture the communication irrespective of how much effort you want to put into it, will break down. My wife and I have this conversation often as that is the bridge she will not cross. We would remain friends but our relationship as husband and wife would cease at that point . . . Nope, not planning to transition, we just like to cover our bases so we have a lot of "what if" conversations.

    Hugs

    Isha

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenie
    I am okay with lucas being a CDer, if he decided he needed to transition, I honestly could say that is something I would not be okay with, and no amount of conversation in the world could change the fact that I didn't want to be married to a trans woman.
    One of the most surprising things I've learned about myself as a woman* was when I realized that I couldn't stay with a CD or MtF transitioning partner. I'd be nice about it, I hope, but long term it wouldn't work and I know that.

    Of course the chances I'd get surprised by something like that are basically zero, so its not a fair comparison.

    * assuming anyone thinks I'm actually a woman. Some weeks, like this last one, that seems doubtful.
    Last edited by PaulaQ; 03-21-2015 at 11:31 AM.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenie View Post

    If the only time you ever sit down and have a thought out talk, is to talk about CDing, then there is a communication breakdown in all other aspects of life.

    I often wonder when people haves these "coming out sessions" with their SO's, if this is the first time that they have sat down and had an important conversation with their SO of this nature. This alone would startle a SO, (why is this happening now, this sit down is so serious, etc etc). Where as I think people who are succsessful have been having these hard conversations about other topics for a long time, and this is just another one added to the bunch.
    Following this line, it seems to me that the communication issues combine with or exacerbate ingrained behaviors and attitudes that can be toxic in a relationship. In a relationship where issues are argued or ignored to avoid conflict, or where marriage where rigid belief systems are the main binding force between partners, the introduction of a conversation on gender acquires explosive potential.
    Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one.

    Eleanor Roosevelt

  16. #41
    Transgender Member Dianne S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulaQ View Post
    People need to be very careful about the question "will you transition?" You can really only give an honest answer about what you'll do now. The future is often very difficult to know with any precision.
    I strongly identify with that. Two years ago, I would have sworn up and down I'd never transition, and yet here I am a year into the process.

    The fact is that life can often be surprising, and a crisis in your life can trigger all sorts of repressed feelings. In my case, I think the death of my father a couple of years ago hit me really hard and made me realize I had to live the rest of my life trying to be happy and authentic.

    Before you can be honest with your SO, you need to be honest with yourself. Search your innermost feelings and don't flinch if you find something that scares you. It will eventually bubble to the surface and delaying the truth does no-one any favours.

    The rest of Paula's post is very good. Expect the best, but prepare for the worst.

  17. #42
    janetcd2 janetcd2's Avatar
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    Continuing conversation on both sides is extremely important. My wife accepted my dressing from the start and has encouraged me. Because I was very open with her as to all aspects of my dressing we have become a lot closer. She now knows that I want to retain my male parts and she also realizes how much I enjoy dressing. My wife is a strong confident woman and because of our many conversations she has learned that when I am dressed I am a lot more submissive. She enjoys her role being dominant and encourages me to be the wife. For these reasons I am now dressed almost all the time. Even when I wear men’s clothing they are referred to as tomboy thinks. I wear women’s panties and a bra no matter how I am dressed. We go shopping together and in public she always uses my female name. She asked me to agree that she could tell anyone she chose about my dressing and that I am submissive to her. I feel that I’m the luckiest girl in the world to have such a loving wife and we both enjoy what I have become.

  18. #43
    Silver Member Tina_gm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by allsteamedup
    What strikes many GGs about your reveal is complete shock followed by the devastation to their self-esteem and sexuality. Rebuilding herself as to what your new identity makes her can take years for many women. During this time there is no opportunity for meaningful communication.
    I very much agree that the reveal is typically going to be a complete shock for a majority of GG's, especially if it has been many years into a relationship and or marriage. While a woman's self esteem may be hit hard, or devastated as you say, that is part of the woman who may have self esteem issues in the 1st place, or HOW a CDer reveals and what they do after the reveal.

    During this time there is no opportunity for meaningful communication. You want to talk wigs and makeup; she wants to be able to leave the house knowing there is a relationship to come back to at the end of the day that involves the man she married. Until education takes hold she can have no meaningful response to your desire for her to offer makeup advice or accompany you out while dressed!
    Even though it is one solid paragraph, I wanted to separately respond to the latter section of the paragraph. I believe there is always time for meaningful communication. Without communication, how is either party going to become further educated as to how the needs or desires are for each other? What my CDing is, and what someone elses is can be two entirely different things, or mean two entirely different things for the individual. For some, it is highly sexual and only sexual, for others, there isn't a sexual component at all. Good communication especially in the early times after a reveal are of the utmost importance for a relationship and or marriage to survive.

    She cannot quantify your desire to be considered as another woman in the relationship and until you can offer reassurances about your future together (which does not include you being her girlfriend!) you are both on very sticky ground.
    Who says that every CDer is looking to be another woman in the relationship? While that may be the case for some, that was a broad stroke you were putting on CDers. A committed relationship can only have basic reassurances of its future, regardless of CDing or any other issue, or life itself for that matter. A relationship of any kind is so because two people are harmonious together. Through life we change. Not just because of CDing, but aging, different employment, different life situations, kids growing up and going out on their own, life is always evolving. The best I can ever tell my wife is that I love her with all my heart, and I always will. That I hope that it continues this way for the rest of our lives and I will strive to keep things going if I can. She can offer the same. Will it happen? Hopefully. Sometimes it does happen. 50% of the time marriages dissolve and it doesn't happen. 95+% of the time CDing is not an issue that dissolves a marriage.

    Communication is a two-way street. In my relationship it is the cder who operates DADT! While you may consider an accepting SO convenient have you ever stopped to think what it cost her along the way? Yes, being the man for her when she needs you is a good idea, but how many of you actually manage even that?

    If your SO is at the stage of having to re-build her self-esteem and stop questioning her own sexuality, maybe you are the one in need of some education......
    CDing not withstanding, there are a lot of issues in my marriage that would be of convenience if my wife was more of this or that, less of that and this, and for her, the same would apply to me. What has it cost either of my wife and I to adapt to each other? Time, effort, understanding... compromise, sacrifice.... and that is all without CDing. The benefits of both of us offering this to each other are worth the rewards we bring each other, in the long run.

    allsteamedup, I can only tell you of my situation. Yes, it was a shock to my wife when I told her of my desires to CD. I was not an active CDer for the most part prior, but I always wanted to be. I am on the feminine side period. I do not have a masculine type of job.... (labor, construction, trucking etc etc) I am not and never have been a "masculine man" So, while the dressing issue was a shock, for her, there has been no great transformation of me as a person. I have no other identity. I don't have a female name to identify with. Not that I couldn't, it just isn't something I need.

    Now that can go both ways- feminine to some extent all the time, or a split personality type of situation. Some women are ok with both, or neither, or one or the other. Maybe it puts me further down the TG road than some, maybe not, who knows, or maybe I am just an individual born male but feminine which is more common among females to be feminine.

    My wife does not hate all of my femininity. In fact some of it she does like, and uses even. I am always the one to write on a sympathy card or pick one out, cards in general actually. She often asks my advice on how to sooth a friend in need or a family member. Why? because I connect on a level most men don't. That doesn't make me a female, just feminine in those aspects. What I wear on my time, feminine style clothing.... Is it difficult for her, absolutely. So are other aspects of me and there are difficulties I need to deal with on her end.

    She chooses to look at my transgender ism as a challenge or obstacle like any other obstacle that a relationship faces. I offer her things she never has had in any other relationship. Love, compassion, caring, understanding, attention to detail, intuitiveness. Men have these qualities too, but typically in lesser amounts than women. She respects me with my dressing and feminine issues, even though they are difficult for her, and I respect her by not putting it up in front of her. I do not dress in her presence which is what she wants. I oblige this. It is a compromise on my part that I limit my dressing. I cannot limit my feminine nature however, but I do not just throw it in her face and say deal with it. Some CDers may do this, but reading on here, most don't.

    We all can benefit from further education, it is a lifetime thing. Life changes us all. While difficult at times for the both of us, it has worked for so far 2 and a half years. Will it continue? I hope so, both she and I are going to try. No guarantee of success. What is most important is that it is working now and our lives together are better than they would be apart.
    Chickens should be allowed to cross the road without having their motives questioned

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