Is this crossdressing?

[Danitgirl1]

A few weeks ago there was a post on this forum in which a person noted that they went out in public dressed in women's clothes that were not obviously women's clothes. In other words they were clothes that could 'pass' as men's clothes. This prompted me to write this blog: https://daniellaargento.wordpress.co...crossdressing/
Then I bought a pair of women's cowboy boots that could 'pass' as men's boots and wore them in male mode to a music concert (please see https://daniellaargento.wordpress.co...preview_id=172 for more).
I was thus confronted with the reality of wearing women's clothes in stealth.
Is this a rather strange form of underdressing? Was it crossdressing at all? Or was I just dressed in a manner (mostly) of my choosing expressing the feminine side of my character as best as I was able?
The more I think about it the more I feel that it is me exppressing my feminine side in a 'safe' if closeted manner. I have an item of clothing that I like, that is comfortable (they are in fact the most comfortable boots I own) and that expresses who I am...
This truly is an interesting journey...

[cheryl reeves]

i wear gender neutral clothing..i have to wear mens shoes when dressed because size 13 womens shoe is hard to find..sometimes i under dress,sometimes i don't,i just try to be me

[Marcelle]

Hi Dani,

IMO it really depends on the person and how they feel about the clothing. For example my wife wears "men's" hiking boots when we go camping because she has a wider foot and men's boots fit more comfortably for long hikes. I doubt she would consider herself a cross dresser. However, if the person is a cross dresser and believes the footwear/clothing is that of the opposite gender even if it could pass in both realms, then they are more likely to feel as thought they are covertly cross dressing.

Hugs

Isha

[Lily Catherine]

Personally my distinction is between presenting as male or female. I do not consider myself cross-dressed if I am presenting male but wearing women's shirt and jeans (1 in 7 outfits currently).

[charlenesomeone]

Being who we are is the most important. Underdressing, only one person knows for sure.
Any exterior item, no matter how "ambiguous" is expression to the world.

[Katey888]

Hi Dani.... starting the day thinking... (reaches for aspirin) and the week too...

Given that 'crossdresser' is a term that reaches from the occasional sexual fetishist right through to pre-op transsexuals, I think your example qualifies, even if the bulk of the activity is happening between your ears... (can't get really get more stealth than what you know and no-one else can tell... )

To me, your idea of "expressing my feminine side in a 'safe' if closeted manner" is completely valid. In the same way that folk may hold very strong political views but have the right to express them in a safe and confidential manner through anonymous polling, some of us may also choose to do the same with our feminine aspect. We don't all have to be 'out there' to find the satisfaction and contentment that makes us balanced individuals.

If it makes you happy - do it!

Katey x

[pamela7]

until about the 10th of January I did not know the words "crossdressing" nor "underdressing", but i underdressed. Since then I've worn mostly clothing made for women. I don't know if I need these words to justify why I choose my clothing, but I do know I am happier wearing clothing made for women or made for me but styled femininely. We each might have a different definition, most here would say I present as "a man in a dress". For me its not that simple, it's "me in a dress", and as I am happier this way, maybe I'm enjoying some fem catch-up time after 50+years of being angry. Maybe most men are angry and the clothes are the answer to the anger and conflict in the world? Who knows? If you want to call it cross-dressing do so, I think its "natural dressing". Maybe Adam's figleaf was uncomfortable and ever since ...?

[Kate Simmons]

I guess it would have to actually come down to the essence of who we are.

[Erica Marie]

In my true and honest opinion, you are no longer crossdressing. You are merely getting dressed and leaving home for the day. They are your cloths, why cant you wear them? In todays terms I think the word crossdressing should just be throw out. Women have been wearing mens cloths since the beginning of time, now its the mens turn to wear what ever we like. Besides I dont consider myself 100% male, so why must I wear all male cloths?
I myself wear womens cloths daily. Its all a blend of cloths that doesnt scream "guy dressed as a women".

[kimdl93]

In another thread, someone mentioned the aspect of intent. If you wore discretely feminine items with the intent of going under the radar then it's cross dressing. If you are indifferent to whether the clothes are originally intended for male or female then, it's not.

[Mark/Rebecca]

Selfridges, the forward thinking department store has announced they are getting rid of mens and womens departments and will have 3 floors of clothing without assigning gender. They are also removing their male and female mannequins and using gender neutral models. Perhaps a giant step toward social acceptance?

[meganmartin]

I would have to say if you are a cd then it must be cross-dressing.
However many women wear men's clothing because it is more comfortable or for whatever reason.
But don't do so for the same reasons we do or it does not fullfill some inner need.
For instance my wife prefer's men's tube socks and sweatshirts, but she is not a cd by no means.

[NicoleScott]

Not that long ago, many dictionary definitions included a reason, such as "for sexual or emotional reasons" in addition to the wearing of clothing normally worn by the opposite sex. Not so much any longer, as most sources define crossdressing using the wearing of the clothing alone without motive. In its description, Wikipedia specifically excludes any motive. If so, underdressing is crossdressing, and so is wearing of women's clothes (or boots in your case) that "pass" as men's clothes or just clothes (like t-shirts). So is costuming, according to the latest definitions. I never considered Mrs. Doubtfire and Tootsie as crossdressers because they wore disguises and were not driven from within as we are. But by definition, they crossdressed. My way of thinking is if you are driven from within, it's crossdressing but if the drive is external (costume, disguise, theatrics, entertainment) it's not crossdressing. That's just me. Dictionaries see it differently. It's just about the clothes, not the drive.
It can get complicated. There have been times when I put on makeup and a wig, for my own home alone pleasure, but no articles of women's clothing. I'm a crossdresser, and I consider this a crossdressing act even though there was no "opposite sex" clothing worn.

[Teresa]

Mark/Rebecca,
Somehow it's feels as if Selfridges are spoiling our fun ! I'm intrigued how they get round the shape difference with their mannequins !

[pamela7]

Mark/Rebecca,
Somehow it's feels as if Selfridges are spoiling our fun ! I'm intrigued how they get round the shape difference with their mannequins !

no-o-o, i feel fully they are helping mainstream come into fully-flexible attire - surely your wife can't argue about something as established and respectable as Selfridges saying there is no difference?

[ReineD]

Selfridges, the forward thinking department store has announced they are getting rid of mens and womens departments and will have 3 floors of clothing without assigning gender. They are also removing their male and female mannequins and using gender neutral models.

Wow! London is just so progressive!

Here's the Selfridges Agender Shop webpage, although I wonder how many of our members would want to dress like that. The clothing, worn either by male or female models is perhaps not feminine enough?

http://www.selfridges.com/webapp/wcs...-_-ShopTheEdit

[Katey888]

Perhaps a giant step toward social acceptance?

More likely just a step towards some market differentiation.... All these fashions are quite youth-focused (you might expect) and fashion for these younger age groups does seem to be going through a bit of an androgynous phase at the moment - so they can more than 'get away' with it; they can hype it up a bit, get some good glossy mag coverage and make a play to be "transcending traditional notions of 'his' and 'hers'..."

Fiddle-faddle! Or just marketing if you prefer... Call me a cynic, but this will be gone the next time very feminine fashions make a resurgence for women... 18 months? Couple years..?

I'd hardly call £1100 bomber jackets and £255 trainers mainstream... not here in the provinces anyway, perhaps amongst the hedge fund managers...

Katey x

[sfwarbonnet]

Mark/Rebecca,
Your comment about gender neutrality at Selfridges brought to mind the skants worn by both males and females in Escape to Farpoint in in Star Trek: The Next Generation. They were essentially dresses and the statement the episode was making was that in the future gender wouldn’t matter. However, it appears that society wasn’t then ready for men in dresses, and I don’t think that men ever again appeared in skants.

[Allisa]

If I am wearing the clothes made for the opposite gender of myself than I am crossdressing. If I wear jeans made for females, shoes obviously female(not high heels),accessories, purse, and enhance my more feminine features than I am expressing my femininity but not hiding my gender than I am cding, but if I only under dress I am still cding even though no-one can see the clothes and expressing my masculinity. As you said it truly is an interesting journey.

[CynthiaD]

I don't consider myself to be crossdressing unless people are calling me "ma'am." I often go out wearing all female clothing, pants without wig and forms, but I consider this "stealth mode." But most of my stealth-mode clothing is obviously feminine: embroidered jeans, cowl-neck tops, open toed shoes with bows on them, so I'm generally not very stealthy. But I don't feel crossdressed without my forms and my wig, and perhaps a little makeup.

But this rule is just for me. If you feel differently about things, more power to you.

[Pat]

Is stealth clothing crossdressing? How about: it is if you think it is, it's not if you think it's not? Sounds simplistic but as a definition I think it has legs....

I don't know why wearing women's clothing affects me the way it does, but if I get the effect does it matter?

[Beverley Sims]

For want of a better expression let's call it stealth dressing.

[Sammy777]

I bought a pair of women's cowboy boots that could 'pass' as men's boots

This comes from someone who has worn cowboy boots since I was 17-ish.
I used to wear them everyday. Work, night out, dates, as dress shoes with suits, ect. In short I lived in them, lol.
Cowboy/girl boots are a great thing, can last years, even decades if cared for properly and go with anything. [for guys anyway, lol]

I looked at yours and they aren't much different then men's boots so most people will never notice the difference.
Most boots have a 2" to 2.5" heel, the only difference being the style of the heel. [there are a few different heel types]
There was a reason for all this, but I think I forgot it. lol Anyway, have fun with them
And when wearing a denim mini + cowboy[girl] boots, get used to being called a cowgirl. I'm being serious.

For instance my wife prefer's men's tube socks and sweatshirts, but she is not a cd by no means.

Exactly! men's tube socks are cheap, great for winter AND great under boots for an extra bit of warmth, so the insides don't rub your legs and also keep your feet from sliding wearing stockings. They also protect stockings from getting snagged by the inside of a boot.

[Rachael Leigh]

I will occasionally wear some of my female clothing in male mode usually my half boots, or a top and jeans of course but no I don't consider that crossdressing it's just what I feel like wearing at the time

[sometimes_miss]

Is this crossdressing?

Again, we have the obvious difference of opinion, depending on who is the one determining the definition. If someone else uses the word crossdressing to describe your action, then your putting on clothes normally reserved for the opposite sex constitutes crossdressing no matter why you're doing it. OTOH if you're putting on your wife's jacket to go to the mailbox and just want to keep warm and dry, they you would probably not consider that to be crossdressing; nor would, say, a guy who threw on his wife's robe when running out of a burning house. To one person the intent defines it, to the other, the act.