Unsolicited fashion advice

[Rachael Leigh]

I agree Tina and sometimes I'm not sure Im even qualified to give the advise since maybe I don't know your style.
I'm sure I'm guilty of giving advice that wasn't asked so Yep we should be careful.

[Sarah-RT]

I suggested Taco Bell (one of our favority local fast foods).

She giggled and said, "That could work. We'll be sweeping into Taco Bell in evening gowns but Oh well."

When i finished school and we had our Debs (prom?) ball, we were in the limo on the way to the hotel when the driver got lost and sent us into mcdonalds to ask for directions, so me and the other guys went in to hit the bathroom in full tux's, ive never felt so classy

[justmetoo]

I suppose I'm guilty of offering unasked for advice. And I'm certainly not the most qualified person to do so in practically in case here anyway. I try to watch it, but sometimes it still comes out. I do try to keep it respectful and lighthearted (although sometimes I'm sure my jokes fall flat). :/

[TinaZ]

I disagree Tina. We should not be here to simply give "attaboys." That's the misunderstanding of being a "support" forum. Not all is ok and good.

Honest feedback is what cross dressers need. It helps in our collective betterment. I don't think I wrote that comment, but it is something I WOULD write. That kind of feedback is invaluable to a newbie going out.

Under your hypothesis, my only allowable response to YOUR post is "Attaboy Tina!" How does that help anyone?

For the benefit of those who did not join their 9th-grade debate team, Jennifer is committing what’s called a “straw man fallacy.” She’s re-stating my conclusion to such an absurd proportion in an attempt to make my argument sound unsupportable.

In the unlikely event she actually believes my conclusion is every thread should be nothing but cheerful unicorn farts and butterfly tickles, I will re-state my opinion:

In threads asking for opinions on a topic (as I CLEARLY do in this one), giving an opinion on that topic is 100 percent appropriate.

In threads asking for fashion advice, giving fashion advice is 100 percent appropriate.

In threads where the original poster offers a breathless and gushing tale of achievement in this often-difficult journey, chiming in with a critique of her shoes not matching her belt is, in the politest of terms, callous, and ought to be avoided.


-------------


I realize this next bit likely will only muddy the water, but I have a theory that at the core of this sort of response is a level of self-hate that’s disguised as “helpful” advice.

As an example, imagine two Jewish people at a restaurant table. The first one is ultra sensitive to anti-Semitism (both real and imagined), while his dining partner is not. Imagine his dining partner dropping a bit of Yiddish into the conversation (Oy!) and the first one leaning in and whispering, “Do you hear any Gentiles using that word? Can you be less Jewish?”

Or imagine it’s two African Americans and one uses slang from Black culture. Imagine the other leaning in and asking the first to be less Black.

Or imagine it’s two gay guys and one asks the other to "butch it up a little" so as not to attract attention.

All are examples of a certain level of self-hate. But the problem is, acting less Jewish does not decrease anti-Semitism. Acting less Black does not reduce racism. Acting less gay does not reduce homophobia.

Sadly, acting less transgender does not reduce transphobia.

And IN MY INTERPRETATION, when someone gives unsolicited advice on how to be less cross-dressy, it’s the same as leaning over the table and saying, “Blend in! Stop attracting attention!” And I believe it’s because she doesn’t want to face up to a society that generally doesn’t feel comfortable around us, no matter how fashionable we are.

To me, it’s evidence of the same type of self-hate that’s going on in my examples.

[mykell]

so one day im late for a sales meeting, scrambled around that morning and got on the road and met the team,
meeting was in a public place and we finished up and went about to start my day,
on the way to my first call a guy calls me aside and lets me know i have the size strip still adhered to my pants, "DUH", GEE thanks TEAM....

a little embarrassed, but heck i were dresses and heels right, so i was glad that i was told about the sticker, but i was upset that my "team" had not said anything.

i was however glad this person pulled me aside in a tactful manner and informed me of my moment of forgetfulness,

any topic can have a "FFP" type response but sometimes a respectful "PM" on the side out of the purview of the public will be greatly appreciated, i have been on both sides here....but i used a "PM" and felt better for doing it.....i dont think the member did though....but when i was on the other side i wished the member had done it that way, but they just let it rip....i felt like WTF.....i was sharing a tale of triumph at the time....but if you asked for opinions you cant wear your emotions on your sleeve....



this was an oldie but good post.....http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...ight=rant+isha

[MissTee]

You make some good points, Tina, but I did notice what in your avatar looks like dribble of BBQ sauce on your dress. You really should wipe that off before you post. It clashes with your lipstick.

[Hell on Heels]

Hell-O Tina,
Did someone mention Tequila? I love Mexican food!
So in order to be in the same frame of mind as you, and provide you with an appropriate response,
Im working on one of my B-day gifts this evening, I can only take a guess at what you might consider the proper amount.
Wait, before I forget, what's this about Grizzlies in the desert? I suppose I'm not quite at the proper amount yet.
Hang on a minuet ..... CHEERS! Let's see about them bears now.
Ok,Ok,Ok Unsolicited, or not, anyone that has been here, participating or just lurking, should be aware that if they post pics
of themselves here, there may be someone that might point out a shortcoming in their presentation, pose, lighting, etc.
I agree that there are a few situations where some tactfulness from the person offering the advice should be taken.
Hold ON..... Cheers! Damn bears!
Simply ripping into someone that you really don't know, could really hurt someone, but encouraging them to carry on with whatever mistakes they may be making doesn't help them either.
Sooooo ....... What I think i'm saying, at least thinking (besides, hmmm, I really like this Tequila) Please, if you post pics, and don't want to be picked apart, include that info in your post.
If your feel inclined to critique someone, use some tact, and offer what you think might be a better choice.
There shouldn't be a "you can't sit with us" crowd here, it should be more of a "come sit with us" situation.
Cheers to you all!
Much Love,
Kristyn

[TinaZ]

You make some good points, Tina, but I did notice what in your avatar looks like dribble of BBQ sauce on your dress. You really should wipe that off before you post. It clashes with your lipstick.

Tina does love a succulent rib!

[katie elouise]

Tina. I agree totally that unsolicited advice is more often than not unproductive, and depending on the level of vitriol can be damaging to the op if they are not pre paired for a surprise kicking .
I wonder how many people here have an opinion about issues we face ,but are to scared to post for fear off being picked apart just for offering their view point ?
Personally I tend to fall in the say something nice and up lifting , or" keep your gob shut" camp .Katie x.

[Marcelle]

Hi Tina . . . immersed in home renos all this past week and stopped by check out the forum and "voila . . . a dead Kodiak .

I agree that unless a person asks for "honest feedback" it is polite to refrain from being overtly blunt especially when the advice was not solicited. I do get that some people will be well meaning and want to educate the person about "what is chic and what is not" . . . however . . . fashion is a personal choice and if someone thinks lime green jeggings with a neon orange tunic top and 6 inch pink stilettos is great . . . who are we to judge. I would ask those who provide such feedback this question. When you are out and about "en femme" and you notice a GG making a what you deem a fashion faux pas, do you go up and offer your unsolicited advice? Oh sweetie, real women don't wear a cocktail dress to mall. I am going to hedge my bets and say . . . no. Think of the forum as a that type of social interaction and allow the conventions of good manners guide your advice giving.

Yes, this is a support group and sometimes support means giving some a dose of reality (we all do it). However, when the OP is excited about a momentous first step on what we all know can be a very scary journey (first step into the Vanilla world) a blunt . . . "Yeah whatever but your shoes don't match your outfit" or "Real women don't dress up to go to the mall" . . . is not supportive but just arrogant based on your own thoughts about fashion. You can still dispense the same advice without being so blunt and perhaps a PM would be the best venue if you really want to play Cross Dressing Fashion Conscience (CDFC) but again civility should rule. Something along the lines of "Hey I just read your post about going out for the first time . . . WELL DONE! I do not want to come off as judgmental and feel free to ignore my comment but if your intent is to blend I might suggest you look into some more casual fashions which can still look very feminine but more suited for just running errands.

Hugs

Isha

[pamela7]

if someone things lime green jeggings with a neon orange tunic top and 6 inch pink stilettos is great . . . who are we to judge.

I am that person!!!

[Tonya Rose]

LMAO! Go tina! You are so right GF!

[UNDERDRESSER]

I see your point, Tina, but I want to throw in a funny sidebar.

Tomorrow my spouse and I have a very tight schedule and a very dressy event in the evening. With no time for dinner we need a quick snack on the way to the event and I suggested Taco Bell (one of our favority local fast foods).

She giggled and said, "That could work. We'll be sweeping into Taco Bell in evening gowns but Oh well."

So your scenario really does play out sometimes in real life! And we're not even planning on drive-thru!

(Sure hope the FFG doesn't hit me for beng overdressed for Taco Bell!).

Hugs,
Persephone.

Completely off topic from the thread, but you reminded me of this tale. Friend who sold, and got to bring home, seriously high end cars, took a Bentley GT home. This was greeted with many admiring looks, and the family decided to take it out for a little drive. As they hadn't had dinner, they came up with the idea of taking it through the McDonalds drive thru. Placed order, drove up to window to savour the jaw dropped face of the guy handing them their bags. "Thank you my good man" he said, and passed the bags to his wife while he paid, wife starts to hand bags to kids.. As visions of french fries smeared over expensive leather seats suddenly burst into his head, carefully crafted image goes out the window as he screams "Don't give them to the kids!"

[Alex!]

Indeed, I see a lot of folks (all kinds, not just trans and crossdressers) that dress in odd ways, but that is just how it looks through my perceptual filter. One person's odd is another's idea of fashion sense or individual comfort. I never provide unsolicited fashion advice to anyone. Even if asked, I hesitate, especially in this community due to heightened sensitivities. It's best to just dress however you want, then learn from there

Alex

[Samantha2015]

In the unlikely event she actually believes my conclusion is every thread should be nothing but cheerful unicorn farts and butterfly tickles, I will re-state my opinion:

In threads asking for opinions on a topic (as I CLEARLY do in this one), giving an opinion on that topic is 100 percent appropriate.

In threads asking for fashion advice, giving fashion advice is 100 percent appropriate.

In threads where the original poster offers a breathless and gushing tale of achievement in this often-difficult journey, chiming in with a critique of her shoes not matching her belt is, in the politest of terms, callous, and ought to be avoided.

I agree with Tina & I will try not to do that to others. But for me if I were creating a big fashion F#&% up I would appreciate a gentle or friendly
bit of advice no matter where or how I posted. But that is just me.
I never knew a unicorn fart was a compliment, they are strange creatures !!
and one needs to be added to the list of animated smileys !!

[mechamoose]

I get your anger, and it is justified. I fear Momma bears more than Daddy bears, and this coming from a person who lives with a *beautiful* Grizzly girl.

Our goals are all relative, right? If I have never stepped out of the house in nail polish before, I'm going to be hyper-sensitive to people looking at my fingers. I'm looking for some sign of approval or rejection. Smiles mean the world, and frowns are devastating.

I'm aberrant to almost everyone's expectations of gender and I accept that. I'm not afraid to stare someone down who doesn't like what they see. Not all of us are in a position to be able to do that. We should be giving 'victory' messages to those of us doing what many of consider 'little' things because for them, that was SCARY STUFF. It took courage to even step out of the house that way.

They felt fear in doing that act, and even though WE may have gotten past that, please don't use that and an excuse to casualize that fear. I have had good friends get the living crap beat out of them for daring to appear in public "across gender norms" (sexuality/identity)... even in accepting places like (MA) Cambridge, Salem, Provincetown.

I go out on errands in girl clothes, sandals, rings, bracelets, painted fingers/toes, and a nice graying beard. Yes, I'm confusing, but I'm *not* afraid. I *won't* be. At age 50 and having been gender-queer since age 25, I have earned that.

That doesn't mean that others on this path have had that experience.

*Perspective*, honey. My youngest is petrified of Bees, and I don't have the slightest concern. Why? Because I know I don't have pollen. He doesn't have the experience to understand that.

Please do your best to try and remember what it was like when YOU took those first steps. Were YOU a Big Brass Bitch?

I doubt it.

<3

- MM

[jjjjohanne]

Tina, when you rant, you should wear less eye shadow. Too much eye shadow and you will look manly.

[aussie cd]

have to agree with you on this Tina.....and fwiw you always look great.....would have loved to have seen the famous Tina Z whilst you were down under! I'm in Brisbane ..I'm assuming you were in Melbourne (great place)

[donnalee]

Interesting thread - someone being criticized for being critical of critics!