Unsolicited fashion advice

[TinaZ]

Hi everyone:

Caveat: Used to be, when something online stuck in my craw, I'd jump into the fray loaded for bear. The results? Ninety-nine times out of 100 - lots of shouting and no one leaving with a changed mind. Today, my odds of unsheathing my wordsmith sword are about 50-50. Meaning, I let a lot of shit go, and most often I'm better for it.

Unfortunately, this post is an example when I'm not letting go. I've drunk juuuuuust enough tequila tonight to tip me towards making a small fuss. But as a sign of my maturity, instead of blasting away with the power to fell a grizzly, I'm going to kindly present my opinion on this matter, and leave it up to discussion. I might just be wrong about all of this, after all.

In my opinion, if someone does not specifically ask for fashion advice, please refrain from giving it.

Here's why: I've seen it a handful of times now, when someone will post a groundbreaking, exciting, heart-pounding message about making a big step in this journey, and while most everyone in the room offers appropriate 'atta girls, and kudos, one or two others will post about whether the OP's blouse matched her shoes, or whether her earrings were too dangly, or whatever.

It's as though we have a few self-appointed Fairy Fashion Godmothers (FFG) around here. An example:

Original Post: I can't believe this! I finally left my house. I went through McDonald's drive-through and bought a cheeseburger! I can't believe I FINALLY did it!

(Handful of cheerful, encouraging responses. Then ... )

FFG: I'm not sure if you've noticed, but not too many women go to Micky D's in an evening gown! Choose something more appropriate next time.

What strikes me most about that sort of response is the FFG somehow wants the OP to be LESS cross-dressy. As if the FFG goes out only in smart, tailored Hillary Clinton pant suits, and we all should follow his lead. Well, I hate to be the bearer of this shocking news, but whether you're in a neon pink leopard leotard, or whether you've stuffed your Arnold Schwarzenegger thighs into some sophisticated ensemble "polite society" generally offers an approving nod, you're still a DUDE in a DRESS. Thus, you are a freak on the same level all of us are a freakish.

(Sorry - thought I spotted a Kodiak down the way.)

Anyway, my advice: refrain from offering fashion advice unless it's requested. That's especially true if the OP is sharing a tale a triumph. I realize fashion advice is likely meant to be helpful and not hurtful, but when it's not requested, it's almost always taken as the former and not the latter.

Your opinions?

P.S. - I appreciate the irony this entire thread is unsolicited advice in which I harp about unsolicited advice, but I'm willing to overlook the incongruous philosophies if you are.

[pamela7]

you make a fair point Tina, I'm no fashion guru, and what works for me does not work for someone else ... i get enough "advice" at home, though they're lightening up now and realising if i want to wear big thick socks with a dress, then i'm going to!

[Curiosity666]

I agree wholeheartedly. Unless someone asks for criticism, then hold your tongue. Some people don't care how they look, and dress the way they feel. If that doesn't suit your expectations, too bad. By the same token, if someone is genuinely after feedback, don't be afraid to correct them. It's not such a problem here, but over in reddit land, someone will ask "Do I pass in this photo, please be honest", and we have people left right and center stating how beautiful and natural they are, even when the truth is not so nice. Better off telling them "No you don't, but some simple things to try are...". I know that's what I'd prefer.

[mbmeen12]

I understand what your saying and yes there are, what you phrased "FFG's". But its the freedom of speech and what someone posts in an ALL the world to see forum is open to all interpretations. And of course what the mods feels if any bullying or inappropriate behavior occurs. They do a great job too.....

[Persephone]

I see your point, Tina, but I want to throw in a funny sidebar.

Tomorrow my spouse and I have a very tight schedule and a very dressy event in the evening. With no time for dinner we need a quick snack on the way to the event and I suggested Taco Bell (one of our favority local fast foods).

She giggled and said, "That could work. We'll be sweeping into Taco Bell in evening gowns but Oh well."

So your scenario really does play out sometimes in real life! And we're not even planning on drive-thru!

(Sure hope the FFG doesn't hit me for beng overdressed for Taco Bell!).

Hugs,
Persephone.

[TinaZ]

you make a fair point Tina, I'm no fashion guru, and what works for me does not work for someone else ... i get enough "advice" at home, though they're lightening up now and realising if i want to wear big thick socks with a dress, then i'm going to!

OMG, Pamela; I just bought a pair of big, thick, knee-high socks from Target. They're blue with sparkles and they go with nothing at all, but I cannot tell you how much I adore them!

[pamela7]

Yes, knee-high sparkly, love it!!!

And i ordered these a couple of days ago!

http://www.tallgirls.co.uk/polka-dot-sock-navy-hj6500nv

[Shelly Preston]

Hi Tina I understand what your saying about advice.

However that may depend on the context of the thread and how the advice is given.

Sometimes its given with the best intentions, which is normally to help the person blend in and avoid nasty comments.

As with any advice it will always be down to the individual to decide if they want to use it.

[Donnagirl]

I agree with the lovely Tina Z.... So often posts are cathartic in nature, or the postulations, real or perceived purly hypothetical or rhetorical... Critical commentary is unsolicited, unwarranted and often unproductive. Talking personally, I have sufficient discomfort generated by aggressive self-imposition on the horns of a dilemma generated by introspection alone, external assistance, whether offered with the most sympathetic intentions or not is un-amiable at best, sinister at the extreme... Misplaced benevolence is as harmful as inadvertant cynicism.


Well, that's my opinion...

Big hugs,

Donna

[Nikkilovesdresses]

I always love, envy and admire everything TinaZ wears without exception including her wonderful wigs and make up and thanks to her I now love the ukelele too. And microphone stands. Everything really.

...was that ok?

...am I overdoing it?

[kimdl93]

Generally speaking, uphill refrain from giving fashion advice unless it's requested. And even then I'll refrain, because I'm hardly an expert. My goal is to not unduly embarrass myself or others.

[Jenniferathome]

I disagree Tina. We should not be here to simply give "attaboys." That's the misunderstanding of being a "support" forum. Not all is ok and good.

Honest feedback is what cross dressers need. It helps in our collective betterment. I don't think I wrote that comment, but it is something I WOULD write. That kind of feedback is invaluable to a newbie going out.

Under your hypothesis, my only allowable response to YOUR post is "Attaboy Tina!" How does that help anyone?

[Pat]

There are times when the only appropriate response is, "Oh, sweetie..."

Good thought. But basically the complaint boils down to people are people and they do people-y things.

[Tracy Hazel Lee]

I generally do not ever give unsolicited advice on anything. Not on here, or anywhere else in my life. Since I myself do not want advice unless I ask for it (and even that is extremely rare), when advice is asked for, I will make a strong effort to ensure that my words can not be taken negatively. In my opinion, people ask for advice because they want your help. Giving them something that can be taken negatively does not really sound like 'help' to me. And text communication can very easily be taken the wrong way.

So, 'if you can't say something nice.....'

I'm pretty sure that everyone knows the rest of that phrase.

[docrobbysherry]

I "bithe by tug" a lot on this site, Tina. As I will for making any comments about your OP.

But, I just HAVE TO ask; What's an FFG!?

FFG stands for "Fashion Fairy Godmothers". I wish the heck you'd left that anacronism out of your OP,Tina. "Critics" would have been easier to get. Now, I have to re-read every nutty post here, knowing what FFG means now.

Or? I can have my glass of wine a little early---. Tuff choice!

[sometimes_miss]

and while most everyone in the room offers appropriate 'atta girls, and kudos, one or two others will post about whether the OP's blouse matched her shoes, or whether her earrings were too dangly, or whatever.

Why, my dear, would you think that unusual? Catty behavior is considered ultra feminine by lots of men, so it's absolutely no surprise at all that some might subconsciously feel more feminine when they indulge in it.

[Lexi_83]

I disagree Tina. We should not be here to simply give "attaboys." That's the misunderstanding of being a "support" forum. Not all is ok and good.

Honest feedback is what cross dressers need. It helps in our collective betterment. I don't think I wrote that comment, but it is something I WOULD write. That kind of feedback is invaluable to a newbie going out.

Under your hypothesis, my only allowable response to YOUR post is "Attaboy Tina!" How does that help anyone?

Jennifer is my new heroine. Well spoken! It's the interwebz, there are forum rules to keep it decorous but there is a fly in many bowls of soup....

[Rhanda]

A great big "Hoosier" attaboy.

Rhanda

[VeronicaMoonlit]

What strikes me most about that sort of response is the FFG somehow wants the OP to be LESS cross-dressy. As if the FFG goes out only in smart, tailored Hillary Clinton pant suits, and we all should follow his lead.

HER lead. I would imagine that most of what you call the FFGers identify more towards the transgender end of the spectrum.

Well, I hate to be the bearer of this shocking news, but whether you're in a neon pink leopard leotard, or whether you've stuffed your Arnold Schwarzenegger thighs into some sophisticated ensemble "polite society" generally offers an approving nod, you're still a DUDE in a DRESS.

Some people here don't identify as "dudes in dresses".

Thus, you are a freak on the same level all of us are a freakish.

The thing is, we, meaning transgendered people in general aren't freaks. Some of us might even get offended when our own say we're freaks, because we're not.

Your opinions?

What you've just ran up against is the fact that we're "not all playing the same game." The FFG's as you call them are probably more female identified and want to look/be as much like non-trans women as possible. So they mention that if one wants to "look like a woman" or "pass" that one might not want to wear an evening gown at McDonalds.

Honest feedback is what cross dressers need. It helps in our collective betterment. I don't think I wrote that comment, but it is something I WOULD write. That kind of feedback is invaluable to a newbie going out.

Under your hypothesis, my only allowable response to YOUR post is "Attaboy Tina!" How does that help anyone?

The thing is, we don't all have the same motivations. As I said, we're not playing the same game.

There are times when the only appropriate response is, "Oh, sweetie..."

yeah, the "Oh honey, NO!" moment. But you have to know how to wield it properly.

Veronica

[michelleddg]

Hurrah! Yes, indeed, too many self-appointed FFG's around here. Main problems are: 1) Offering unsolicited input. 2) Presenting subjective opinions as hard fact. 3) No bedside manner (sometimes a slap on the back, sometimes a kick in the a$$). 4) No beside manner (constructive feedback can be delivered in a kind way). 5) Way too strong opinions rendered for the information provided (e.g., there is a limit to what you can conclude from a photograph). 6) Not recognizing different strokes for different folks ("I don't like it therefore it is no good.") 7) "Advice" based on truly insufficient information, knowledge and/or experience (FFG's who come off as know-it-all's who, well, do not know-it-all). 8) Dramatically inflated view of the value of their input.

Sure, there are ample opportunities to provide value-added solicited input every day on this forum. It would benefit everybody if the FFG's would consider how to maximize the effectiveness of their input as well as providing the input itself. Hugs, Michelle

[Alice_2014_B]

Awesome expression, I agree.

[Beverley Sims]

Tina,
This is a support group and some with little fashion sense need loving care and lies to help them through the tenderest of moments.

Don't worry, I can get bloody harsh too !

[Jorja]

Opinions? You want opinions? You came to the right place! We got opinions even if you don't want them.

[ReineD]

Tina, two questions. You write beautifully, are you a professional writer? And do you hunt?

To your point, I agree wholeheartedly especially in threads that focus on taking the first few steps out of the closet. People generally figure out on their own what works and what doesn't rather quickly. But if they ask for opinions then I think that people should be honest.

[Victoria Demeanor]

Hi Tina,
I get what you are saying and ya people really should pay more attention to the true purpose and reason for the post and comment appropriate to it. When someone has had a great adventure, made a big step and they are wanting to share an awesome milestone, then yes the comment should be geared more towards the support of their courage and join in their excitement. How ever constructive criticism can be a good thing when it is done in a non catty way and of course when it is asked for.
I recently posted my first picture and believe me I knew how bad I looked. I only had a few hours, rushed and messed up my makeup, and sadly my photo equipment has dwindled down to a very cheep point and shoot. I posted because I had a fun, not trying to impress and just need to share. I did though open it up and said give it to me. Oh and the most did. I got everything from how cheep my wig looked to advice on lighting and posing. I loved and appreciated every comment, I even wrote and personally thanked everyone.
I don't really give too much advice, because, well I have not fashion sense. I wear what I like weather it matches or not. but when I comment I normally try to give it some content. I think what gets me, and not trying to change the direction of your thread, is people that fly through the threads with the "looks good"..... "nice"......"Like it" type posts. their post numbers climb and climb and I guess I just don't understand it. getting the first ten post in is beneficial, but is there a benefit to having a large post count that I don't know about? do you get a complimentary steak knife set when you reach 500? I mean I am still waiting for the toaster oven I was promised when I joined the site. although I read a lot, I only post on a couple of threads at a time and then I go back to those several times to see what other people wrote and if anyone agreed, disagreed, quoted me or ban me from their profile. Please Tina don't ban me from your profile as I love your video and just bought a whole new pack of Bic lighters
Okay I ramble, but oh, oh one more thing... Donnagirl, can I just say I loved your post. I read it three times and had to really think. what great wordsmithing.
Alright I'm done.