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Thread: public schools, personal care assistent work, etc

  1. #1
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    public schools, personal care assistent work, etc

    Hello everyone- I have a question for anyone who works in a public school, as a personal care assistant or any job that requires lots of exposure to people.

    I'm about to get my name legally changed and begin full time life in Washington, either Marysville or Bellingham, and one reason why I'm extremely nervous is because most of my professional experience is paraprofessional work in an elementary school. Without getting too specific, several parents complained about someone who worked in the same classroom as me, who was in the very early stages of social transition. The complaints seem to generally be about parents not wanting their kids around a transsexual, on the grounds that they would not be "safe". The mechanics of it from that point out are very opaque (every involved party has a radically different story) but it seems like the agency she worked for came to a head with the local school district and now most of her work is on-site at the mental health treatment center that hired her, or therapeutic interventions that involve doing things out in the community, but is not allowed to work with clients in a public school. I even met one of the parents who complained and I worry that people in general are not comfortable with transsexuals around their children.

    What does everyone else think about this? Can anyone offer an opinion about being trans and working in a public school, or with children?

  2. #2
    Isn't Life Grand? AllieSF's Avatar
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    No personal experience here, but I have read over the last few years about the difficulties of transsexuals working around children. Here in California where it is illegal to discriminate based on gender whether cis or trans in the workplace there is a lot of protection for trans employees. However, that does not mean that there are not issues nor that the employee can not be dismissed for other reasons, true or fabricated. From what I remember reading, the trans employee was protected and maintained their position when working around children. Meetings were held with the parents and special efforts were made to better inform and educate all the children's parents.

    In your case, in my opinion, a lot depends on the laws of the State, Washington, how they are enforced and what programs that the school districts have in place to make sure that the employee can do their job and that the parent's concerns are addressed while still sup[porting the employee. From what I have heard, Washington, especially in the larger cities and nearby communities, is an accepting and tolerating place for trans to live and work. However, when children are concerned it can really get complicated and sometimes support from the employer could be compromised in favor of the children. That is probably similar to the situation that you witnessed.

    So, you really need to talk with your employer, or future employer, to understand as best possible how they will support you in a similar situation. I would actually use that situation as an example when talking with them. It is real, it is probably very complicated and were the results satisfactory to you, meaning did they support the transitioning employee, and was the solution, if there was or is one, a fair result for everyone, win-win, or compromise-compromise.

    As we all know, or should at least understand, the final results in any conflict can depend on a lot of different elements, people involved, reputations for fairness and enforcing laws, and many other factors that can sometimes upset a fairly obvious course of action toward resolution. I wish you the best of luck.

    PS: In my opinion, if the laws protect you, then your employer should support you and the parents will need to learn to live with it.

  3. #3
    Member VanTG's Avatar
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    I think that your hearing a lot of bad experiences, while the good experiences don't get heard because people like bad stories. I would say that the area you are in Seattle and surrounding area is pretty progressive. If your open to it, try and use it as a learning experience for others. There will always be people that hate, but thats with everything.

    Good Luck

  4. #4
    Platinum Member Eryn's Avatar
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    The downside of discussing this issue with a prospective employer is the strong likelihood that you will not be hired. No, it won't be because you are trans, but they will find and document a reason to hire another candidate. No administrator will willingly hire someone who might bring controversy in their institution. It is insidious, but there is no good way to combat this.

    If at all possible, get hired without mentioning being trans at all. Make sure that your paperwork and whatever certifications you need have your correct name and gender. There is no obligation to reveal that you are trans. The only downside is possible problems with references or contacts with former employers.

    Personally, I am debating whether any sort of "grand reveal" is necessary or desirable if one is taking on a new job. For an existing job some explanation will be required, similar to the information given when a female employee changes name due to marriage, but this need not be a major production.
    Eryn
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  5. #5
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    Eryn

    I have to say this has a strong ring of truth, but I'm very insecure about my passability. I had one job where I was publically known as a woman, then I made my jump into behavioral health in a public school as a man, because the environment I worked in when I stated openly that I was trans (telemarketing) was disturbingly misogynistic and I had absolutely zero family support and I knew, going into a public school environment, I wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell being hired as a transwoman. I know this is probably terrible, but if I went into a new job in a new state with an eye toward attracting zero controversy that would mean doing it as a male. And then making the jump sooner or later. And I'm in my late twenties. I know that's the wrong perspective through which to see this, what with your life getting away from you and all that, but if I wanted to do it in a way that would raise no red flags, nothing signaling any impending controversy, I would have to do it as a male. Maybe that's just life but I wish there were some other way. Maybe I could openly breach it in an interview. That's how the lady I mentioned in my first post did it, and she got hired. I dunno, but Eryn sounds pretty persuasive
    Last edited by Nigella; 05-13-2015 at 10:33 AM. Reason: Please do not quote the preceeding post, there is no need for it, I just added Eryn's name to draw attention to the post

  6. #6
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    If you hold on here I know there are a few who are teachers or retired teachers. Hopefully they will chime in and can give you a better idea of what you face. My personal opinion is that just like any other job, it is going to be an uphill battle. If you really want to know what the public knows about us, all you have to do is type in the word transsexual in your search box on your browser and then click on the search button. Page after page you will find porn site after porn site. This is why they do not want you near their kids. They do not know or care to know any different. One day maybe this perception will change.

  7. #7
    Silver Member I Am Paula's Avatar
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    I work part time in a Catholic High school. My transition was very public ie. I went away, and came back a woman. I work closely with students, teachers, and lots of parents. I was truly expecting to either lose my job, or get some flack from parents. So far...nothing. It's been over a year since I re-started there. In case I was getting grief behind my back, I asked the Principal if he had heard anything...nothing.
    Last week we had one of the twice yearly whole school assemblies. I was sitting at the front , facing 1200 kids. The assembly was long and boring, so I spent time looking at the students. Not a single one appeared to be looking at the tranny (me). Next Thurs. is the year end concert. I will be very visible to about 450 parents, and I'm sure the only comments I'll get is 'Have a wonderful summer, and see you next school year'.
    There CAN be a silver lining. I hope you find yours.

  8. #8
    Senior Member stefan37's Avatar
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    I teach in a local VO-Tech. They were involved from the very beginning when I informed them I was transitioning. They have been very supportive from email, log-ins, pronouns etc. But school districts and geographical areas have different attitudes.
    "When failure is off the table the only thing left is to negotiate levels of success" M Hobbes

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  9. #9
    Silver Member DebbieL's Avatar
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    I work with a big international company and much of my work involves going out to client locations, interacting with client staff, my company's staff, as well as other vendors, some whom may be competitors in other projects.

    Ironically, I used to have a harder time "passing as a guy". My voice was too high and soft, my manner too nice, and people often assumed that I was very gay.

    Now, as a woman, I am actually BETTER accepted by the clients, my voice is a bit low for a woman, but it's perceived as tough, my gentle manner and friendly way is "being a lady", and many people are a bit surprised when I finally slip and mention that Lee is not my husband, but my wife.

    Even at church, many of the women could barely wait when they heard that I was transgender and was coming as Debbie after Christmas. Some started whispering "I can't wait to see you in a dress". The women are very friendly, and the guys are police and nice. And when people see me adoring the kids, they know that it's just the doting of a grandmother who is a long way from her grandchildren.
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  10. #10
    Platinum Member Eryn's Avatar
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    Reading what Paula and Stefan said I can see that there is some hope. I'm probably a bit too pessimistic, but it comes from decades of observation.

    I live in California, where trans access is guaranteed by state law. The law is clear but members of our local school board still expressed that they would have to "interpret" the law if a TG student needed to use their desired facilities. In other words, they were still looking for ways around compliance.

    The laws may be on our side, but some individuals still resist as much as they can. Unfortunately, in employment situations this often results in TG people not being hired but of course for reasons unrelated to their being TG. Right.
    Eryn
    "These girls have the most beautiful dresses. And so do I! How about that!" [Kaylee, in Firefly] [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "What do you care what other people think?" [Arlene Feynman, to her husband Richard]
    "She's taller than all the women in my family, combined!" [Howard, in The Big Bang Theory]
    "Tall, tall girl. The woman could hunt geese with a rake!" [Mary Cooper, in The Big Bang Theory]

  11. #11
    Silver Member I Am Paula's Avatar
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    Not to be pessimistic at all. Your state/country can have all the protections in the world, but two things are concrete:
    Not getting hired- Did not interview well. End of story. The interviewer can be a bigoted hater, and he has every right to say this.
    Getting fired- Willful disruption of business. The catch all phrase to legally fire anybody. Willful disruption can be interpreted in so many ways you can get fired for a bad haircut.

    There are a lot of great companies out there, with progressive diversity policies, and although it may be harder for a trans person to find a job, they're out there. Don't despair or give up if your first interview doesn't get you a job. On the same token, don't expect your state/country's laws to protect you from much.

  12. #12
    Aspiring Member Dawn cd's Avatar
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    Location and the specifics of the job will have a big part in it. For instance, transexual teachers may be accepted in high school where they wouldn't in early elementary grades. Obviously state laws will also be a factor, since schools don't want to be sued for gender discrimination. However transitioners might be moved from a classroom into administration. Finally it would probably be easier for a long-time teacher to be rehired after transition than it would be for a young person to transition before seeking employment in a school.

    NBC recently ran a story about a HS teacher in California who transitioned and returned to the classroom.

    http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health...l-woman-n60076

  13. #13
    Platinum Member Eryn's Avatar
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    The sad thing about that situation is that, despite state law, the district did everything in its power to sabotage this teacher's smooth transition. They notified every parent and implied that students would require "counseling", the same actions usually done if something terrible happened. They severely violated the teacher's privacy and set off every wacko parent at once. I'm glad this teacher stuck to her guns but it is a cautionary tale for others.

    If one transitions in a similar situation, one would be well-advised to include your expectations for management behavior in the initial meeting, and also to indicate one's willingness to litigate if they behave badly.
    Eryn
    "These girls have the most beautiful dresses. And so do I! How about that!" [Kaylee, in Firefly] [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "What do you care what other people think?" [Arlene Feynman, to her husband Richard]
    "She's taller than all the women in my family, combined!" [Howard, in The Big Bang Theory]
    "Tall, tall girl. The woman could hunt geese with a rake!" [Mary Cooper, in The Big Bang Theory]

  14. #14
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    If someone is willing to put up with the little shits, I say give them the opportunity to work the job. So long as they are not some felon anyways.

    I doubt the kids would care either way if a teacher or other admin is transgender. Kids do not see teachers, principals, counselors etc as genders or even people. No, they are just a bunch of old farts making a bunch of damned rules and ruining their time off with junk like homework.
    Kids are gonna make fun of and pretty much despise adults in the school unless it is one of those "Cool" teachers who lets them get away with murder.

    I think the reason Paula's transition went smooth is because once us TG women get a bit older, we carry ourselves different. That and maybe Paula forgot to assign homework so no one wanted to rattle her cage, lest she remember...

    As we age, we just put off a different vibe. People react to your vibe more than your gender. When you are still in your 20's, you just haven't built the confidence to easily deal with certain things.

    It takes a few years of living full time before you can truly "own it" and seldom (if ever) catch a hard time. If you do get this job in a school, that will boost your confidence real quick.

    PLUS, people might be afraid to say anything even if they disagree. Who wants to be labeled a bigot?
    It takes a true Erin to be a pain in the assatar.

  15. #15
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    Long ago, in a galaxy far, far away, I used to set up quality assurance programs and prepare for audits by our corporate staff. It remains true that "Where There Is Smoke, There Is Fire.".

    People who are trained/skilled at doing evaluations will spot anomalies. The point about making all of your pertinent records consistent with your current name is well taken. It is an obvious point that will bring questions, or maybe an opinion will be formed without ever specifically asking for clarification (not entirely sure if they can legally ask). If there is a possibility that this is a question that you do not want to respond to, or have be of some possible negative influence, then the records need to be consistent.

    DeeAnn

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