degrees of DADT (labels again? Bruce???)

[Sara Jessica]

In reading another thread about how Bruce Jenner's coming out as being transgender apparently opened a painful reality called communication, it got me thinking about what DADT really means.

Simply, DADT is a label. But is it simplistic to say that all DADT refers to our SO sticking their head in the sand singing "la la la" to drown out the trans in their midst?

I don't think so.

I have described my wife as being DADT but really, I did her a disservice in doing so. It's more like "yeah, whatever", hereto forth known as "Y,W". In other words, she gets it. She gets me. She doesn't play in that part of my world and that is OK. She runs interference for me. She is fascinated by Jenner. It was a vehicle for her to "get" me more. But at the end of the day, it remains "yeah, whatever" as this isn't front & center in our lives together. It is there. It isn't necessarily ignored. We communicate quite well about the trans as needed. I sincerely hope she doesn't dwell on it. I pray she doesn't wake up every morning wondering if this is the day the proverbial shoe will drop and her spouse will announce to the world an intent to transition just as our friend Bruce has done.

She has given me the space that allows me to remain committed to my cause. This whole thing isn't sounding much like DADT to me, hence my new "label", Y,W.

YMMV

[Rogina B]

"That's Your world" is how my wife calls this space..I wish more people had space to be themselves without being alone from having blown their world to bits..

[Nadine Spirit]

From all of the different descriptions I have read from others I think there are many degrees of DADT. But my opinion is that the only true form is when your SO tells you that is fine, but they do not ever want to talk about it or know about it. I think some people assume it is DADT when their SO doesn't ever bring it up, or when their SO doesn't understand it, or when their SO doesn't like it.

My wife and I are not in this situation as she is wonderfully accepting. But recently I discovered that I incorrectly described my sister as DADT. The Bruce interview actually prompted a great discussion between she and I where it was shown to me that it was actually my own insecurities that stopped me from discussing it with her. She thought I didn't want to talk about it and I thought she didn't want to talk about it, but really we both wanted to.

[Kate Simmons]

Call me a "turnip" if you want just so I keep getting paid.

[Sara Jessica]

I think some people assume it is DADT when their SO doesn't ever bring it up, or when their SO doesn't understand it, or when their SO doesn't like it.

This is exactly the essence of what I am saying.

There seems to be an undercurrent that what is often described as DADT is somehow the result of failed communication and will lead to destruction of the relationship because this is inherently a bad thing.

Many SO's will never be in a place where they "like" this thing of ours but there is a degree of respect to be achieved when both sides acknowledge the other and neither rubs each other's nose in it by making it a constant point of discussion or contention. As is often said, it is what it is.

Hmmmm? Y,W could become IIWII.

[CarlaWestin]

Yeah, I'd like to know when DATD became the coverall for "I don't want to see it", "I don't want to talk about it", "You should be a real man", "I'm an estranged wife", etc... I mean just come on, already. This is life. There ain't no redos. And I'm your Husband. I didn't run anywhere or pink fog you out. Just play along! When we first met, I'd already been through the meatgrinder of tools using my gender fun as a legal pry bar. I really thought you got it but, it seems like "I do" means "I don't"!

Figure it out, would 'ya!

[Barbara Black]

My only caution is that, regardless of the necessity for honesty, forcing the issue could result in a confrontation, and possible an ultimatum. This may be good too of course, but it's a tricky road sometimes that may be better off for a later time.

[Jennifer0874]

My wife and I are DADT to unless my wife requests Jennifer's presence. That happens from time to time. I get that she wouldn't want to see Jennifer everyday. I should also add my wife seems to have no problem expressing a little maleness come Halloween.

And the level at which she wants to see Jennifer varies. Fully dressed Jennifer on Halloween is always acceptable. Otherwise she seems to not mind seeing me in panties or maybe a nightgown during playtime in the bedroom - no make up or wig.

The biggest thing I have learned is to respect my wife and dress at her pace/ level of comfort.

She's also very cool about knowing I will dress when she travels for work.

[Leslie Langford]

Interesting spin on the concept of DADT, Sara...

So by your definition, does "Y,W" reside in the gray zone situated somewhere between "tolerance" and "acceptance"?

[PretzelGirl]

Leslie, I would think that tolerance also falls into "Y,W". "I tolerate that you do this, so go ahead. Whatever". The DADT in the true form, in my mind anyway, is less than tolerant, but I am not going to blow everything up if it isn't in front of me.

I miss reading thoughts like this as I struggle with having the time to visit the MTF area anymore. Saw Sara's name posting it and had to read. Good stuff forming here.

[Beverley Sims]

Me?
I have a label, it is blank though.

[Sara Jessica]

So by your definition, does "Y,W" reside in the gray zone situated somewhere between "tolerance" and "acceptance"?

Leslie, I would think that tolerance also falls into "Y,W". "I tolerate that you do this, so go ahead. Whatever". The DADT in the true form, in my mind anyway, is less than tolerant, but I am not going to blow everything up if it isn't in front of me.

Absolutely correct on both accounts ladies. Very astute observations !!!

I used to describe my wife as being tolerant, less than fully accepting but decidedly not participating. Yet the fact we don't make the trans a subject of daily conversation seemed to make DADT a reasonable way to describe our situation. That really wasn't fair to her, nor to the strength of our relationship based on the perception of what DADT is by some in these pages. Hence, Y,W was born.

Seems to me that Y,W can be a rather healthy place to reside and in my opinion should be strongly considered as part of the disclosure process where the spouse is struggling. What I mean by this is the countless times I'll read a tale of initial disclosure which is often followed by a comment along the lines of "oooh, next I will dress up for her on Saturday..." For her??? I doubt something like this is on her list of things she envisioned doing with her husband. Why not let her process without letting oneself get caught up in dreams of feminine grandeur with the weight of the world lifted off of the discloser's shoulders. That weight was simply shifted over to the SO.

In other words, I see a healthy disclosure discussion with a goals such as....

• This is who I am and/or what I do, you should know this about me.
• I am committed to this relationship (as part of answering the 20 understandable questions that are often asked following disclosure)
• Please understand this is part of the essence of my being.
• We can communicate as needed. I do not require a daily conversation with you to affirm my newly disclosed feminine nature.

Following which she has the ability to say Y,W as a means to move forward rather than tread water in a DADT situation where it seems there'd be a natural amount of tension.

[Tina_gm]

When it comes to crossdressing and my being in the transgender spectrum, my wife and I have a very similar spot as does Sarah Jessica. It is talked about on occasion. There are even some instances of jokes that have been told, or fun little picking about it. My wife does acknowledge it as far as she and I go. And yes, Like Sarah Jessica's wife, it is the future which is the hardest for her. Waiting for the other shoe to drop, is exactly the words my wife has used on several occasions.

The Bruce Jenner story is both good and bad for my wife. Good in that she sees that s/he has been nothing but an upstanding person. Her kids all love and respect her, and have offered their full support, as have his 1st two ex wives. To my wife, he is a real person, not some sex crazed drag queen like what is often presented by the media.

There is also the bad side as well. The use of transgender as a description of Bruce. I use this term for myself. The term is now quickly morphing into those who completely identify as women, and are transitioning, have, or will. I really wish the terms would settle on whatever. The constantly changing PC stuff makes it harder for us. Pick something and stick with it.

That he after so many years of secretive CDing, is now talking about transitioning, to some extent anyway. He is 65 now. I am 50. My wife already had a concern about getting into our 60's and then when we are getting ready to retire I decide to go full time/transition. Bruce really legitimizes my wife's concern/fear.

I agree about what a true DADT is, and even many on here who say they are in one, probably are not. A form of it perhaps, similar to mine, Sarah's and many I am sure, where they do not want to "see it" or be big participants in any way of it.

Yes, there are some wives and other S/O's who do participate, perhaps even enjoy it. They are a minority. For the great many of us, having wives who may know about it, occasionally talk about it with us, but are not big into seeing it or participating in it, that is something we should be ready to accept. It is not the worst case scenario by any means.

[S. Lisa Smith]

I think we are also in w.t. My wife is helpful, but doesn't want to see me dressed. We kid about it sometimes and she has purchased things that I have asked her to get. We are comfortable with this situation. I am working up to asking her what she thinks about Bruce Jenner...

[kimdl93]

Y,W is certainly better than many,perhaps most. I think the big challenge is to actually know or accurately now where your partner is. I had a very rude shock about 15 months ago, thinking I had full support, when Y,W would have been optimistic. Had I been more perceptive, and had my wife been more honest, we might have avoided the misunderstanding and saved each other a fair amount of angst.

[brynnewilliams]

My situation is similar to Lisa's. My wife doesn't care, I just choose not to do it around her. We joke about it. She lets me go through her clothes before she donates them. It works for both of us and doesn't make either of us uncomfortable.