Pushing the Envelope?

[Melissa_59]

Ok, as the title mentioned, we're pushing the envelope here.

Question: What is a "date"?

Posit: Two people going out to have fun? Nothing in a "date" says there must be sex involved.

I regularly have a "play date" with a man I consider to be my brother, even though we're not blood related. We do this over the internet (MMORPGs, we play Star Wars: The Old Republic and Star Trek Online - have our own fleet!) and we have a LOT of fun.

So... the question: WHY is this "date" different from dating anyone you wish to go out and have fun with?

You're a Genetic Guy (yeah, turned that "GG" right around didn't I?) and you're going to a ballgame or the new Avengers movie or bowling, etc. And you're having fun.

Why is this not considered a "date"? Would you "date" a guy, if it was really called that?

Kids have play dates. But you call it a "date" between two adult guys and suddenly you "must be gay". What's up with that?

No really, why is that "you must be gay"?

Honestly I'd "date" a guy if he was fun to be with, because I already do - I just don't tell him it's a "date" because of the way he grew up. It's the same thing and I absolutely do NOT expect sex (he doesn't know about Melissa), and we have a lot of fun.

So. Dating. What's your perspective? Does "date = sex" or "date = possibility of sex" or something else, like maybe just having fun?

This is something that just came up in my head as I was thinking about life, the universe and everything. I thought I'd toss this out for other people's perspectives.

Please don't dump on other people's ideas of dating in this thread. Let's keep this friendly.

~Melissa in West Texas

[Robin414]

Wow, good topic! IMHO a 'date' would indicate the POTENTIAL for intercourse. I hang out with my male friends and have a ton of fun as 'guys' but calling it a date...well maybe jokingly?

[Mistyjo]

A date is someone personally asking you out that sometimes can get confused with a one-on-one hangout, depending on the way they mention it or which medium they use to ask you or if it happens to be a group hangout .
Just enjoy the time and don't worry about anything else

[Leah R.]

Just enjoy the time and don't worry about anything else

What she said speaks volumes!!! IMO it's nobody's business if I hanging out with a friend or on a date. I have a female friend that I shop with and we calling our shopping dates. If my best friend wants to grab some food and watch a movie I guess it could be considered a date. So I guess I've been on hangout dates with men. I consider a actual date, hanging with someone you are interested in having a relationship with that is more than friends.

[nvlady]

There is an older woman that I like to get together with so we can have pizza. We make a date to go have pizza. That is all we do, eat pizza and talk. It is not a romantic date, but it is a date.

[Jean 103]

Calling a date implies something other than two friends doing something together. It doesn't have to be for sex, you could date for companionship. I think two guys doing this would be considered gay. I you want to date a guy, I don’t see anything wrong with that, I do it. If you are looking to change the definition of the word, well good luck with that.

[Rachelakld]

I like "hanging out", "chillin" "having bro time" with my friends

I only have "dates" with my wife, or "father daughter dates" with my girls
For me, "date" implies a level of intimacy/closeness between 2 people.

[Marcelle]

Hi Melissa,

Interesting question. Well, a review of the origin of words indicate that the word "date" as we know it, evolved in the early 1800s to mean "fixing a date to spend time with someone" albeit there is some thought it was used mostly by lower class men to mean "fixing a date to spend time with a prostitute" but the term evolved to mean just spending time. In it's infancy it was a noun then it moved on to being a verb by the early 1900s "the act of dating" and became more formalized as a romantic liaison between a man and a woman.

The cultural anthropologist Margaret Mead identified the term dating became more akin to women in that in the early 1900s demonstration of popularity by the sexes differentiated in that men were seen as popular if they could demonstrate wealth, ownership, and being seen out in large groups whereas the popularity of a woman was demonstrated by being seen in the company of the right people (male or female) and the act of dating popular men was also part of this demonstration of popularity. I posit that what we probably see now is largely a general term which has been gender assigned as more a feminine action verb. Yes, men can go out on dates with women but that is part of the courtship ritual and that is where it stops. For a man to go out on a date with a man, well unless you are homosexual, it is unlikely any man would have said "I got a date with Bob next Friday". However, women were less likely to get wrapped up in terminology and began to apply it to other forms of activities such as a "coffee date" with a female friend and not have to fear loosing some macho man points for saying such a thing. I just believe it is one of those terms which many equate to romance and sex so it is probably a bridge too far for guys to use the terms with other guys. Whereas most women are not hung up on such silly notions.

When it comes to children going on "play dates" I believe term is okay in the minds of many because they associate with innocence of children in that no romance is associated with a "play date". I noted Rachel indicated the term "father/daughter date" and I have seen that used by many men. However, I never heard the term "father/son date". Again, it is probably seen as not being very manly or macho to be on a date with your son but loving and caring to be on a date with your daughter.

It is funny how words can get co-opted and mean so many different things depending on the situation or if it is being applied by one gender or another. Think about the difference of the phrase "Boys night out" and "Girls night out". Boys nights out are normally associated with hard drinking, wild times and letting off steam whereas girls nights out is more associated with casual drinking, conversation and kinship. While it may be true in some instances, having lived in both worlds, it is not always the case but that is how it is perceived as if girls are more genteel and calm whereas boys are rowdy and crazy . . . and we all know this is not always the case. Will it change? Possibly . . . think about the term "Bromance" and while many joke about it, it does get used now and then and seems more romantic oriented than "date".

Just my two cents.

Hugs

Isha

[sometimes_miss]

Question: What is a "date"?

In my past it referred to two people scheduling a particular time when they would get together with potential romance involved. You would use the term for either straight or homosexual, but not for platonic relationships.

Two people going out to have fun? Nothing in a "date" says there must be sex involved.

Not necessarily sex, but the intended potential for some type of intimate/romantic behavior

I regularly have a "play date" with a man

I don't know any straight men who refer to such a thing.

You're a Genetic Guy and you're going to a ballgame or the new Avengers movie or bowling, etc. And you're having fun. Why is this not considered a "date"?

As above, no romantic intimate goings on. But you can call it whatever you want, thought I'd wager that your friend would prefer it not be referred to as a date unless he has romantic interest in you.

I don't know when it changed. 40 years ago, kids didn't have play dates. They just got together and played when the moms or dads did their thing, it wasn't structured, or scheduled. A 'date' was with a person of the opposite sex that was presumed to be of potential romantic interest. Today the phrase 'hook up' usually refers to getting together for sex or whatever other type of physical sexual type fun. If there was no romantic potential it was just doing some sort of activity as friends. I know, I know, all that changed drastically with the advent of 'friends with benefits'. None of that terminology existed back then. And we didn't call hanging out with another guy a date.....unless of course they were both gay and knew that it was basically the same as for straight folks when a guy and girl had a 'date'.

I noted Rachel indicated the term "father/daughter date" and I have seen that used by many men. However, I never heard the term "father/son date".

I've never heard either used realistically, other than one guy referred to a fellow from the south 'dating' his daughter in such a way as to increase the size of the family with no outside 'assistance'.

think about the term "Bromance"

I think that was a term invented by a women who got pissed off that her boyfriend didn't want to spend 100% of his time with her so she invented a shaming term to try to get him to stop hanging out with his friends by implying that he was behaving in a homosexual manner. Of course the intended insult spread through the male world just like the term p&ssy is used by men to insult other men. It sort of is how women think men act in comparison to how women get 'girl crushes' on each other. I never had that kind of feeling about another guy, but I've overheard women referring to themselves feeling like that.

[Katey888]

I think date definitely has a romantic context to it... whatever the related genders (or gender presentation) if you perceive it as a 'date', the general populous will perceive that as projecting some sort of 'nudge, nudge - wink, wink' outcome between consenting adults.

So yes, it should be fun - but it might be more... all I remember is that dating could be very exciting, occasionally fulfilling but very often deflating. No matter, marriage has successfully deleted the term from my lexicon of life and I am like last year's Dilbert desk calendar on December 31st - a date free zone...

Enjoy your guy dates, Melissa - no way I'm arguing with whatever a linebacker wants to call 'em - it's all good to me!

Katey x

[Stephanie47]

I'm past the dating age, especially since I've been married for over forty years. Neither my wife nor I view going out together as a "date" with the end result of hopping into the sack. No need to impress anyone now. I think one can use various terms to describe an event. Several times a year I meet a female for coffee. We share a common interest. My wife has met her. She has come to our house. When I am meeting her I tell my wife I'm going to have coffee with her. When my wife is going out with friends, she says she is going out with friends.

I think most people do ascribe a romantic interest when using the term "date". It seems when there is no "romantic" aspect to the "date," they say exactly what they are going to do, as in "I'm going hiking with Dick or Jane."

[pamela7]

dating suggests a potential romantic/sexual possibility, it's a prelude to exploring a relationship.
then again, now there's "business dating" and such things, so the word meaning changes.

For me, dating is something done when single, otherwise one is "hanging out, having a beer, chewing the cud, coffee, chat" but not dating.

[JayeLefaye]

I dunno Melissa. There are sooooo many terms that NEED redefining, I think I'll choose a different battle:-) ... Although before I go on, I would definitely NOT call it a date unless the other dude was comfortable with the word....And that goes for male to female "get togethers" also. There's been more than one time when someone has told me they were getting together with a member of the opposite(or same gender), but insisted that "It isn't a date!"


That having been said, call me old fashioned, but as others have said, a "date" implies the possibility of romance. That's why we have first dates, and if they go well, second dates, etc, and eventually, there is either a kiss good night, or a "I'm never going to kiss you, but here's a hug because you're not a scumbag", or the "I'll call ya" and they never do. And yes, when my grown daughter & I lived in the same town, we'd have "Daddy-Daughter" dates, but my son & I would make a "date" to hang out....Ahhh, semantics.

But I'll play along, because although I think the whole concept of "What is a date?" doesn't need to be redefined, I think you're asking a question that a lot of folks(guys) have thought about thinking about, which is: What do we call it if it's not a date?"..Although, in retrospect, I don't think I've ever actually had that conversation.

You mentioned your on-line friend. You get together at specific times. You set a day & time(date) to "meet" on-line...Is that a "date"?...There's been times when I've been talking to a Guy friend and a conversation might come up about an upcoming activity,ie: a concert, and the other dude says, Hey, wanna hook up at a bar first and then hit the concert?", and I might answer, "It's a date"...But they NEVER came back with, "A date? How are we defining 'date'?", because it wasn't necessary. We were just gonna catch a concert.

Guys, gals, or friends of whatever, make a "date" to do something. That's just not the same thing as "dating". Again, call me old-fashioned:-)

I had a gal-pal for several years before moving out of town. We "hung-out" a LOT!!! We almost had sex, twice, but realized that we had a really good thing going with our friendship, and didn't wanna mess it up. We never went out at night, both being early risers, but it wouldn't be uncommon for me to pick her up at 5:00 a.m. so we could drive out to a "green space" and hike for a few hours. We'd often get together three or four times a week for lunch, or to hear some noon-time concert in a town square, things like that. A few times we even went out of town together and shared a hotel room. The point is, we hung-out a LOT!, but never considered it a "date".

Lemme elaborate on that last sentence. The first time we met, neither of us was looking for a romance, but nonetheless, I asked her out for dinner. That, we considered simply as "Just dinner, because neither of wants to date, right"? I picked her up, we went out to dinner, I drove her home, and shared a quick, soft "goodnight kiss". That was as close as we ever got to calling what we did a "date". Other folks might have, and after us hanging a LOT for about 3 years, other folks were insisting that we were dating. We let them have their illusions, but as for her and me? Nah....

Semantics:-)

I'll choose a different battle, but wish you the best and most enjoyable times with whatever you call it when you do whatever you do with whomever you do it with! Darn, now I've gone and ended a sentence with a preposition, which means that Ive been rambling way tooooo long.

Jaye

[Jorja]

A date is the product (fruit) of a date palm, which is a tree native to Northern Africa and the Middle East.

[JayeLefaye]

Be careful with how you use that word "fruit"...

Jaye

[Beverley Sims]

Date is having fun.
Friends of mine on the guy side used to take me out dressed to the pictures.

It was great 'cause they paid for it all.

[Claire Cook]

A date is the product (fruit) of a date palm, which is a tree native to Northern Africa and the Middle East.

Jorja, we so love your take on things!

[Kate Simmons]

I've been out on dates en femme with both guys and girls. Always a good time.