It still rankles me !

[Teresa]

As we get new members joining up some of old stories keep cropping up !
I realise I'm not talking about every member but for some of us the one thing that rankles me is the way we allow ourselves to be treated in an infantile way by our partners !
Whatever part of the gender spectrum we're on we were dealt those cards either at birth or soon after, we have to play that hand as best we can, there's no going back to the pile to change cards .
Many of us started dressing in childhood, as we grow up we develop feelings of guilt because we apparently haven't let a childish habit go but for many it isn't childish it's our sexuality developing, men can have many hang ups but as long as he can perform his male part much of this may be overlooked.
Some members go to great lengths in asserting the honesty issue , we should be upfront with our partners before a serious relationship develops but that argument goes both ways, women aren't immune to hangups and deception but for some reason the man is always the villain of the peace and not the woman !
So we enter marriage not daring to reveal that we have a dressing habit we let ourselves become deceptive and secretive over something that is part of our identity ! We are terrified if one slip up occurs, instead of being adult about it we allow ourselves to go on being treated like naughty schoolboys, which can only make matters worse long term.
From my own experience I feel my wife is far unhappier trying to contain and not accept my Cding, she repeatedly says she only wants the man she married, her attitude is destroying the part she wants to see and in the process making me desperately unhappy, it really isn't through a lack of trying to be honest with her .
I find it so frustrating that her attitude is to treat me like a child and control when I can and can't dress as if it's a whim I can turn on and off ! Women just don't appear to get it that you live with it everyday, it sits in the pit of your stomach , a continual background ache !
After so many years of these feelings I'm really not going to allow myself to be treated like a child anymore, I've faced reality over it she will have to start and do the same !

[Marcelle]

Hi Teresa,

I understand your angst and I have always been a big proponent of the "there are two people with equal footing in the relationship". Yes, we can all agree that downloading this on your SO irrespective of it being the day you meet or 20 years later can be a bit of a shock. Some SOs will run screaming for the hill and others will stay either fully supportive or points in between. It is at that juncture that the CDer has to decide what they want out of the relationship by way of compromise. Some will accept total control of their SO on when and how they dress because they choose that option for the survival of the relationship. Others will not and will seek agreement/compromise to keep the relationship whole.

Where I get a bit "miffed" is when you read comments akin to "you have to do what your SO wants as she is putting up with a lot". This to me implies that we should be ashamed of who we are (dealt a hand of cards we did not ask for) so it is okay to dictate terms sight unseen? On this I will call BS. Yes, we should not be acting like petulant children demanding to do whatever we want but then again, neither should the SO. Don't get me wrong . . . I get it . . . we are doing something some may see as weird, awkward or strange but that is who we are . . . can't change it anymore than we can change the rotation of the planet. So where does that leave the couple? Compromise, boundaries, limits or whatever you wish to call it. However, those are a two-way street IMHO and nobody has the right to run roughshod over another (CDer or SO). If compromise can only be reached to the emotional detriment of one party over the other, then perhaps it is time to call it a day. In the end, even though one party may "settle" for something they don't truly want to save the relationship, it will most likely bleed out into the relationship as resentment, anger and frustration with the end result being dissolution of the relationship anyway. Compromises are just that, each party gives a little to ensure fairness and tranquility.

Hugs

Isha

[Teresa]

Isha,
I'm sure no one called your efforts to secure a greater understanding and acceptance within the Canadian Forces as acting on a childish whim !
Yet so many allow this to happen in their relationships, OK some may actually enjoy the submissive role but some of the stories of being taken on shopping trips as if they're going to a sweet shop ( Candy Store ) as a special treat by their mothers doesn't sound right ! Going as consenting adult partners is a totally different matter I can understand how that can help a couple come to terms and form a closer relationship .

[stefan37]

The reason many are struggling is they were not honest with their partner before they got married. Many keep it a secret for years and when it is disclosed many emotions run through the partners mind. Some can get past it. Others feel they have been deceived. And the list goes on.
How many posts do we see? Where do you hide your stash?. Certainly if a CD had this need since an early age. It was absolutely their responsibility to disclose it to their future mate. To hide it and cry foul years into the marriage when the partner doesn't want any part of it is disingenuous.

The solution is either deal with what makes their partner comfortable. Or part ways to reach whatever level of comfort is needed.

[Teresa]

Stefan,
The problem with that is I went from a relationship where my partner was fully on board, she knew what it did for me and she got what she wanted, yes it did work well !
As it was the second relationship that Cding was accepted I naively thought that most women were Ok with it but as it turns out my wife is not one of them . The first twenty years of my marriage were so hectic that my dressing was just snatched moments, like so many for some reason we hit our forties and decide that you want more and decide to come out . Up to that point there was no stash to find as I was wearing my wife's clothes, funnily she has no problem with that when I told her !

[~Joanne~]

the one thing that rankles me is the way we allow ourselves to be treated in an infantile way by our partners !

I agree with you, I always have on this. Even if you take the CDing out of it, this is an issue in a lot of relationships out there. How anyone would let another person, let alone your "Partner", lead or dictate who you are, what you can or can not do, when you can or can not do, or ask for permission on just about anything, is beyond me.

That's one of the major reasons I love my SO so much, she doesn't have a lot of the hang ups that a lot of women around here do. we do not ask each other for permission to do anything, as a couple we will discuss things before hand if a discussion is ever needed. Never will we say "can I go with ____ to _____" or anything else along those lines.

When it comes to CDing, she has no problems at all about it, she knows this is part of me, she knows where this begins and where it ends because I have told her such, and since she loves me, she accepts this unconditionally about me as I would about her. Fear is what keeps most sister's from telling their SO's or future brides, if she can't understand that, or the reason why it was kept a secret, I would say there may be bigger issues in the relationship.

I agree that you should come clean about your CDing before you walk that isle though, dating? I don't see the need. Once the cat is out of the bag, there's no going back and while dating you may be opening yourself up to a world of hurt. You don't owe them anything while dating let alone your biggest secrets no matter what they may be.

[Dianne S]

Teresa,

No-one is forcing you to stay married. You have posted quite a bit about how unhappy you are with your wife. You need to decide whether or not it's bad enough to leave, or whether you honestly think you can make a go of it.

[Melissa73]

i understand your concerns. I have to say i was the lucky one, when i came out to the wife, after 1.5 years of marriage, she had come out herself as gay. I still thought she would consider me a pervert, but she took it well and even gave me some clothes she didnt wear anymore. (Considering i had purged before we married.)

[Jean 103]

I was visiting with my ex yesterday who said that she is not my ex as we are still married and have been for 31 years. We have been separated just short of a year now. She does not understand, is not accepting and never will be. I told her I’m not going to argue with her or try and change her mind as I know this would be a complete waste of time. Compromise for me would be don’t even think about it. With the distance that had developed between us over the years I could no longer continue to do that. As she likes to do she jumps from the beginning to the end. I simply told her I didn’t get to where I am today overnight. If you have lived with your SO as long as I lived with mine you should know what she is capable of, asking her to go beyond that is like banging your head against the wall. You’re only going to get a head ace. For me when she said it was over and asked me to move out, that was the line in the sand, as she said time to move on. It is not easy and looking back I long for what we once had too, but as I don’t have a time machine it’s not in the cards.
Love Jean

[jigna]

I had a similar situation. however over a period of time, she is positive and allow me to wear undergarment and daily massaging my tiny little ones and my bra is slowly getting filled up.

[CynthiaD]

No one can treat you as a child unless you let them. That being said, every marriage is different. Whatever works for you is good.

[jenni_xx]

Teresa

Did you tell you wife about your dressing the moment you met her?

[Dawn cd]

You wrote, "she only wants the man she married." But of course the need to crossdress was a part of that man, even then. She may not have recognized it--and indeed you may not have fully recognized it. But it was there. When we accept each other in marriage (or friendship) we have to accept the whole person--even those parts that mature and emerge as we grow. Growth always involves change. No human being is going to be frozen in time as the same person she/he was at the age of 21 or 25. Growth IS change. To expect our spouse to be the same, always, is to treat him or her as a juvenile.

[jenni_xx]

You wrote, "she only wants the man she married." But of course the need to crossdress was a part of that man, even then. She may not have recognized it--and indeed you may not have fully recognized it. But it was there. When we accept each other in marriage (or friendship) we have to accept the whole person--even those parts that mature and emerge as we grow. Growth always involves change. No human being is going to be frozen in time as the same person she/he was at the age of 21 or 25. Growth IS change. To expect our spouse to be the same, always, is to treat him or her as a juvenile.

"We have to accept the whole person - even those parts that mature and emerge as we grow"

Really? I can't express how much I disagree with you. The point is that your partner thought she knew the whole person and as a consequence she WAS ACCEPTING that "whole person" that she (thought) she knew.

[SometimesJen]

When we accept each other in marriage (or friendship) we have to accept the whole person--even those parts that mature and emerge as we grow.

I partially agree. When we form friendships and relationships, we accept what we know of that person as long as we care to. If something comes up that we can't accept, we're free to move on, as are they. This isn't being childish, it's having the maturity to know what you need and how you want to be treated, and taking the steps to do so.

[Marcelle]

Teresa

Did you tell you wife about your dressing the moment you met her?

Jenni,

While indirectly related, I don't see this as really pertinent to the OP's post. Just because someone did not disclose to their SO about something they may or may not have even known about does not give one party (the SO) the right to lord it over the other. If the SO finds out later in life and cannot abide by it then she/he is free to move on with their life. If they can accept in on certain terms then both parties have the right to negotiate the agreement . . . that is what a relationship is about. Again this "liar liar pants on fire you reap what you sow" sentiment implies we are wrong, weird, and deviant IMHO and does nobody any good.

Isha

[jenni_xx]

Hi Isha

I feel it is relevant. It's one thing saying that "if the SO finds out later in life and cannot abide by it then she/he is free to move with their life". It's not as simple as that.

[Marcelle]

Jenni,

Yes it is. If the SO feels she/he cannot get past the CDing then there are only two options: (1) come to some sort of mutually agreed upon compromise for dressing; or (2) end the relationship. My point was that just because it was not disclosed on day one, does not give the SO the right to dictate terms. To do so will only cause resentment, anger, bitterness and the relationship will most likely end regardless.

Isha

[jenni_xx]

Isha

Depends on which way one wishes to look at it. By not disclosing everyone about oneself to a partner, could it not be said that that is akin to dictating terms? Say I enter a relationship, and choose not to disclose certain aspects about myself. Am I not dictating how much of myself I am choosing to disclose to my partner?

As for walking away, yes of course that is an option, but at what cost. What exactly is the person who can't "abide by it" losing when he/she finds out something about their partner that changes the relationship and perception of the person that they thought they knew? Or rather, changes the perception of their partner that their partner expressed to them throughout their time together?

Any partner who walks away, I doubt that they have ever done so without regret, without a heavy heart, and without wishing that it would have worked out. No one goes into a relationship thinking about the day it will end after all.

[Dianne S]

Any partner who walks away, I doubt that they have ever done so without regret, without a heavy heart, and without wishing that it would have worked out.

I walked away from a 23-year marriage. Of course I was upset and had a heavy heart for a while, but now that I have some distance, I have no regrets whatsoever. I feel that without a doubt, it was the best course of action.

[chris63]

One thing to note is humans are not static entities. We evolve, change and grow over time. Irrespective of CD, I'm not the same person my wife married and neither is she. The joys and pain of life have changed us.

I didn't tell my wife before we married because I thought it was in the past and under control. I dressed in secret in her clothes off and on for years. I thank God my wife has been accepting and encouraging now that I've come out. We are both changing and continue to grow.

[Teresa]

Dianne,
Your question #7 why do I stay in a relationship ?
My wife needs me more than she will admit, she needs help and support with the children and grandchildren without that need I would have walked away ! Underneath I'm sure she's aware of this . In retrospect we should have parted when I first came out to her twenty years ago, perhaps she hasn't been honest with me , I don't think I've really got over the hurt of feeling rejected and unloved and the eventual attempt to end my life ! Maybe that sounds childish but when you hit those depths anything is possible !

Jeni_xx,
To answer #12 , my reply #5 explains that but I will add that the GF mentioned I was engaged to , also she was the best friend of my wife at school . She may or may not have mentioned the more intimate CDing details of our relationship but my wife certainly knew how sexually active we were ! She has said on more than one occasion that I should have married her , we have joked about that but perhaps my wife should have been honest with me then and admitted she didn't have the same sexual appetite ! Like I said the honesty and deception works both ways !!

[Dianne S]

My wife needs me more than she will admit, she needs help and support with the children and grandchildren without that need I would have walked away !

Actually, that can be a bad and dangerous reason to stay in a relationship. One of the reasons I stayed so long in my marriage was that I thought my wife could not cope on her own. I eventually realized that sublimating my own happiness for her excessive needs was doing neither one of us any favours. I also realized I was scared of leaving and using concern for her needs as a rationalization to suppress my own needs.

I don't think I've really got over the hurt of feeling rejected and unloved and the eventual attempt to end my life ! Maybe that sounds childish but when you hit those depths anything is possible !

Wow, I'm really sorry it came to that, and I can't imagine what it must have been like. I hope you do find happiness in future, whether together with your wife or on your own.

[KellyJameson]

Crossdressers are perceived as feminine men. Feminine men often elicit feelings of disgust and contempt from the belief that they cannot be protectors, are cowardly and morally weak combined with it being believed that to be feminine is to be weak because "women are the weaker, inferior sex"

For a man to embrace femininity he is rejecting his heritage which is a greater sin than for a woman who is born into it. Men "chose/choose to be effeminate" It is volitional. (This is actually a false believe IMHO because they are created by nature to be this way and probably it is natures way of reducing violence among men)

A weak man is one who is dominated by a woman. Henpecked, Cockhold, Submissive, Subserviant, ect... There is humiliation in these acts, where if a woman endures the same treatment there is sympathy.

Gender is to a large degree about double standards for both sexes beause they have served the interests (or it was at least believed so) of those who have embraced the double standards in the past.

I'm often amazed by how often crossdressers do not truly understand women. They emulate women without understanding their hearts, minds and needs.

A woman enters a relationship to gain that which she does not have and this is usually not found in an effeminate man, which can actually burden her or rob her of precious resources. Decent yes (masculine with a soft side) weak no and effeminacy implies weakness.

It is not just the clothes but more so what goes with the clothes that are problematic for women.

A woman may not feel she can count on a feminine man when things become difficult and than there is the sexual component.

Women do not object to the clothes "only" but everything they symbolize and imply. It can be an affront to her sexuality and to her sense of what makes up normal relations between intimates.(husband and wife)

Women do not care about crossdressers per se but being married to one.

Even many gay men have a problem with effeminate men and to embrace femininity is to be effeminate if you are a man, even if only temporarily while you are doing it.

It is the effeminacy (which is not trusted and viewed suspiciously) that is truly the problem, not the crossdressing, but the two go hand in hand.

There is not a patriarchal society anywhere that embraces effeminacy and most if not all actively suppress it and aspects of patriarchy very much serve the interests of women.

[flatlander_48]

I'm often amazed by how often crossdressers do not truly understand women. They emulate women without understanding their hearts, minds and needs.

That is very hard to come by as we don't have the decades of socialization to fall back on. That's even tough for folks who are transitioning or have transitioned. It's a whole different mindset on how one enters the world from a female perspective. Expectations are different. Responses are different. How you relate to other people is different. Some things are fairly obvious, but others are very subtle.

DeeAnn