Crossdressers: Is a part of what we seek attention, as much as affirmation?

[Katey888]

This is surely not relevant for our TS members, so no need for you to answer, and probably not for anyone who strongly identifies as being TG, but if you're part-time I'm happy for you to chip in. It’s really a question for those of us in the CD and femulator category who share the inexplicable desire to present female, but only part-time or in private.

I’ll keep it as brief as I can as I don’t want to make this too much of a diatribe, but a few things struck me in pondering once again why I persist with needing to express myself in this way. The first is related to life as a guy, and many of you observe that we may not be bad looking as males, but even if we’re not, males have neither the opportunity to express as much ‘glamour’ as women or – and this is the important part – receive the same sort of attention as women, particularly amongst our peer genders. (By this I mean particularly that women will compliment, assess and dress for other women, whereas I feel it's rare that this is true for men)

The second part builds on this and relates to the way that both men and women look at women and the way that appearance is such a critical part of how women make an impression. Not just dressing for business or evening – I know many of you will now decry the fact that women in your area only ever wear jeans and sweatshirts, blah, blah, bah; but that isn’t true for my locale – women around here can and do make an effort in their appearance although I agree that this tends to be more amongst those of a certain background and status (perhaps why it’s more prevalent in metropolitan areas too).

Going back to the first point: while many men may not have issues in life attracting women, we don’t very often attract obvious looks from either gender, or more importantly, receive compliments related to our dress, how we look, how we do our hair, etc. because those aspects are just not generally part of male expression. For me, my male style may have been barely fashionable but has often tended towards conservative over pizazz. This changes for me in transforming – and is reinforced in a quite internal way if I approve of how I look. Of course being largely closeted doesn’t allow much opportunity for others to see me or for me to receive any attention (other than you good forum folk, of course… ) but I can be feeling content with both the way that I look and dress and in that way I kind of compliment myself - there's a curious type of duality there in that I can look at myself dressed female, but assess it from a male perspective. Before that sounds too narcissistic, I’d add it doesn’t always happen – sometimes the results are horrid (and no, you don’t get to see those photos!) but some of the time it's the satisfaction that every thing does seem to look OK (to male me) and that's a good feeling.

When it’s right, however, AND it gets to be in public or at an event, then those things kick in that I never got (or get) as a guy. We know folk are looking at us, even if they don’t comment – and that will be both men and women – and when we do receive a nod or a comment or any other validation, why that just makes things feel so much better and not just because we know we’ve put in much more effort presenting girl than we ever would presenting guy (even ignoring the need to ‘just’ transform), but because we’re receiving something we rarely would when male. Is this feeling making up for something we’ve been missing in our male lives?

This is a part-formed idea for me right now, and those of you who know me will know also that I believe we all have a little TG quirk however we dress, otherwise we wouldn’t choose to present this way, but that also explains for me why some of us seek the public validation we do in this way: we like the attention; we like being appreciated even if we’re blending as part of the social scenery; and we like the feelings it engenders in ourselves because we know what we’re doing is transgressing gender boundaries to satisfy that gender peculiarity within.

Anyone else feel this…?

Katey x

[Sarah Doepner]

Katey,

I primarily dress in an effort to create the best possible female version of myself. That takes work in makeup, hair, body shape, wardrobe selection, accessories and presentation. If I do it well and can go out in a public place and blend in well enough to not get double-takes, pointing, gasps, pitchforks and torches, I take that as an affirmation of my choices and skills. I like that and interpret it as validation of my take on my gender identity. I do enjoy and appreciate it when I get a compliment, even if it's along the line of "for a guy you look pretty good as a woman". Of course it's much better if they pretend I've been successful and they treat me as they would treat a woman in the same circumstance. At that point, I'm not going to ask questions about their motivation because I can't really understand my own motivation. I'm pretty sure it's not just to receive compliments, but when the compliments do come, the guilt, the shame, the second-guessing and whatever else fade and we can get a little closer to understanding the why.

[cheryl reeves]

ive always wore jeans or shorts,t-shirts or nice button up shirts..i dont do suits period i look out of place in one..shoes r either tennis shoes or sandals,would love to buy some boots but 150 dollars is to much..im also cheap i dont buy clothes unless something wears out,im this way in fem mode also..im not like many cders im frugal.

[GeauxStacy]

Katey - Love the avatar btw. :-) For me, it is a little of both. I have only been out one time and it was amazing. I think that the attention I got, what little it was, did give me a big boost. I am working on my voice and look to get that affirmation. I dream of going out again and someone saying excuse me miss? That would be wonderful. :-)

[Hell on Heels]

Hell-o Katey,
I'd say a big part of me wanting to venture out was initially brought on simply
by a desire to be seen. I would (and still do) go out on late night walks, not looking to interact with anyone,
just wanting to be out, and possibly seen (from a distance) by someone, anyone, is sorta exciting to me.
As I had become more comfortable with my looks while dressing at home, that wanting to interact with others
bug bit me real hard! Thanks to some kind people here on the forum, I was able to have that experience, but it wasn't
at all about getting some attention. It was more about learning how I'd feel, out and about, interacting. Would I be comfortable?, or scared to death?
Finding that I was comfy, and as it appeared the world around me couldn't care less about me being out dressed.
I wanted MORE! Which makes me wonder if it isn't about the attention now.
Whatever it is, I know I like it!
Much Love,
Kristyn

[Badwolf]

I can clearly say it wasn't just about that for me and I definitely fit in the categories you listed. For me it's clear because I didn't want many people to know about it. Trying to get my best appearance definitely has something to do with this though.

Now that I'm going out I can definitely say I do take pleasure in it. Since I started going out I have had issues trying to find what I want to wear for that day, tearing apart my closet to find the right outfit. I haven't exactly found all the details of my personal style, which means in respect to that I'm still in my teenage years.

[Sandie70]

Simply said, for me, I definitely don't seek attention - just the opposite. I want to blend. And any affirmation I seek is to succeed in presenting as successfully as possible as a woman. The idea is to be able to breathe the free air outside of my home in my personae of a girl. Having people not notice me (except "look at that well dressed, very tall woman) is my goal. To shop, dine, go to a club, sight see or engage in any other activity I desire as a woman, and to do so without fear and anxiety would be a wonderful thing. In other words, I would hope to simply be able to live a girl's life in a normal and unobtrusive way.

The attention and notoriety I would leave to those who are professional performers.

[Kate Simmons]

For every pic I post here as avatars (that are really me) there were usually dozens on the cutting room floor that I deleted. I have my own standards of excellence when I'm presenting en femme, reasons notwithstanding.Besides for myself, it's an art form. Sometimes I'm motivated by JDI ( just do it) and it seems good enough. Those here who know me and what I do know that I love to go to the club dancing en femme, usually all night. I do this because I love doing it but I'd be naive if I would say that I didn't know others were watching me out there on center dance floor as sometimes I'm the only one there and have the entire floor to myself. This is when I get to experiment and innovate new dance moves, etc.I'd venture to say my main purpose other than having fun dancing is to encourage others to do the same thing, which happens by providing the example. The attention comes naturally but I tend to utilize it as a vehicle of my creativity and that gives me a lot of joy. Besides dressing up and sitting in the corner nursing my drink never seemed to work that well for me.

[anna.h]

Many years ago, I ditched my account at a forum I frequent and signed up again as a female. We discuss sensitive issues of sexuality at this forum, and I just felt more comfortable as a woman. At the time, and for years subsequently, I assumed it was because women get more attention and acceptance at a place like that. And it's true -- I did enjoy that people were a lot more interested it what I had to say, and a lot more affectionate toward me.

So there's that.

On the other hand, I'm pretty indifferent to any attention I receive as a male. Compliments mean little to me (unless, I imagine, they were on my female appearance ). I didn't receive much attention growing up, but I never seemed to want any. So I don't think this is about seeking more attention -- to whatever extent it is about seeking attention at all, it is about seeking the correct attention.

But I think that for me, it has much more to do with just feeling like I belong. If I could venture out into the world and be perceived as a woman, it would strengthen that feeling of belonging.

Answers subject to change. I've been having a lot of new thoughts lately.

[GretchenJ]

Hey Katey,

This is an easy one for me. It is definitely affirmation over attention. Basically, when I get the opportunity to venture out, there is a direct correlation of how good I have the look down and how relatively good I look to how long my trip out will last.

As a pessimist by nature, a man looking at me, I almost always equate to being clocked , rather than being admired.
On the other hand, a complement from a woman, not a teenager, unless by herself, on my hair, or my outfit , or shoes will be absolute euphoria for me. This is an authentic complement and is total validation to me.

[Pat]

It’s really a question for those of us in the CD and femulator category who share the inexplicable desire to present female, but only part-time or in private.

If a crossdresser only dresses in private, then I'd have to argue that they're not doing it for attention -- or at least attention in the general case, as in "He's only doing it for the attention." Mix in our peers who go to pathological extremes to avoid being "detected" and it's pretty clear that whatever the compulsion to crossdress is, it's not an attention-seeking behavior.

If you have the compulsion to crossdress and you're the sort who likes to go out and be seen, then sure, you're probably looking for attention (in addition to feeding the compulsion.) There are also crossdressers who go out in public and yet paradoxically try to avoid attention. So I think that there's not a general rule that can be applied here.

That said, yes I do feel like you describe. I do believe that there are some crossdressers (like myself and apparently you) who in addition to having the compulsion to dress also have a deep desire to be desired. I tell myself that in our society the stereotype is that women are desired, men do the desiring. If we have a strong inner female component, it kind of makes sense that we'd want to be desired as we perceive women to be just as much as we want to wear those ankle-strap heels. (It's probably worth noting that our beliefs about women being desired and how great it would be if we were desired like that are probably delusional. I have had a few cases where I found being the object of someone's desire wasn't all that great.) I too have sometimes stood transfixed before the mirror and felt great pleasure starting at my female self and feeling deep feelings of desire from my male self. It's a very confusing/exhilarating feeling.

[AllieSF]

I am one of those that dresses and goes out, a lot. I usually want some sort of attention in male mode, some form insecurity? In female mode I also want attention in the form of greetings, hugs, great conversations and, of course, compliments on how I look or just am.

[Jenniferathome]

... we like the attention; we like being appreciated even if we’re blending as part of the social scenery; and we like the feelings it engenders in ourselves because we know what we’re doing is transgressing gender boundaries to satisfy that gender peculiarity within....

Well certainly I know I am transgressing gender boundaries but I'd have to comment that it is the opposite for me. I do not want attention. I really only want to blend and be treated normally...as a woman would be. So if someone complimented my shoes or dress or earrings, for example, I'd think that a "normal" compliment and I'd be appreciative. But if it's a "Hey, you look pretty good for a dude," I'd be less appreciative. What is truly awesome about being out dressed is when people just treat me as a fellow human and not an oddity. To me that is being UN-noticed.

[Heidi Stevens]

Jennifer has expressed the view of probably a lot of us, I know it's spot on for me. I'm just trying to get thru this Dysphoria thing as best I can. I submit posts to reassure myself that I'm doing things as female as I can with what I got. Some of us just need conformation so we can work on our short comings. Everyone loves a complement now and then.

[Bridget Ann Gilbert]

Katey,

You've started a very intriguing thread. Let me start with your premise that men don't get to express glamour in today's society. That is true but mostly because the concept itself is attributed as feminine. The closest male counterpart is to be debonair. That aspect of male appearance was lost after the 30's and 40's (think Fred Astaire movies), a great loss in my opinion. So, yes, the affirmation we get when presenting as women from others gives us something lacking in our male lives. It certainly explains my prediliction for formal dresses.

I think the issue is that physical appearance is still the number one way people size up prospective mates. The essential qualities that most women look for in men is a sense of their ability to be a provider and protector. I may be stepping on toes with that statement, but five decades of women's liberation really hasn't changed things that much. Today's male fashions, such as they are, are more about conveying that sense of stability. The last time I recall men's clothing have anything of an elaborate style was back in the 80's,and even that was limited to youth and young adult culture.

CONTINUING POST AFTER ACCIDENTAL SUBMISSION

Women, on the other hand, still have the primary responsibility to attract attention through their appearance. Now we can debate if that's the way things should be, but as it stands that is the message pushed on to women every day. We as cross dressers tend to buy in to that image regardless of our desire to just blend in or get noticed by others.

So, to answer your question, the answer is a little bit of both. You can't get that affirmation unless someone gives you a little attention. Overall, I'd say that is a reasonable, even healthy, motivation for doing what we do. We wouldn't be human if we didn't want to be appreciated by others.

Bridget

[AngelaYVR]

I went out this last weekend dressed and received comments like "stunning" and "so elegant". A woman asked where I bought my shoes. Naturally I was on cloud nine, it really does feel good. When a woman looks at you and says "wow" it is real validation.
On my best guy outings, all nicely tailored, I get admiring glances from women but nobody says anything. I still enjoy it, but I know which I prefer!

[Nikkilovesdresses]

For newbie public crossdressers, and I'm counting you as such Katey since although you've CDd for quite a while you still haven't been out many times in public, perhaps it's like winding the clock back and experiencing again the fresh sensation of social self-awareness we first experience in our early youth? I vividly remember the heady feeling of being wolf-whistled in San Francisco aged about 18 - by guys of course - and since I've lost weight I can still catch the occasional appraising glance at 53. It's a rush, it quickens the heart and who wouldn't enjoy that, especially at our advanced age dear?

The point is what you're talking about, the peacock display and resulting buzz from positive feedback, would never normally happen to us these days- we'd be becoming invisible, it's like a new lease of life.

Further confirmation of our vanity and vulnerability I'd say...shock horror we're human.

Having said that, just losing the weight has garnered me numerous compliments, and now I can wear tailored suits and ludicrously groovy shirts again I get compliments on my clothes and sense of style too.

Vain? Moi?

[Marcelle]

Hi Katey,

I had to give this some thought as I went from never dressing to presenting in public first time within a two month period. What motivated me to go out and be seen? . . . I believe at first there was a need to be seen but more so for affirmation of whether I could blend or was there finger pointing and staring. As I realized I could blend it became more a case of just being which in a sense meant affirmation as people saw me (at least on first glance) as a woman. Compliments were nice but again for me it is affirmation that I was doing something right in my presentation. As time has progressed from that point being seen is less of a concern for me and even compliments (while still nice ) are still only a source of affirmation as I doubt I am being admired by anyone (male or female). Indeed the compliment received and how affirmation is derived is dependent on the person delivering it. For example:

I was out with some GG friends and wearing a sun dress. A couple of my friends said "You have the nicest legs in a dress" . . . I was taken aback as I think they are a bit on the muscular side but still it did make me feel as though my presentation skills were quite good that night.

I was in a store looking through some racks and a mother with her two daughters were looking through the same clothes, the girls were a bit overzealous on what they wanted to buy and I gave a slight smile to the mom. She smiled back and said "You girls are really giving this lovely lady a fun time with your antics" at which point she squeezed my arm quite warmly. Now she read me, there can be no doubt but the affirmation was derived from acceptance by this wonderful woman.

I was conducting a working group for a work related issue (first time en femme). A good friend who knew me for years as a guy showed up (he knew I was going to be dressed as Isha), looked at me and said "Well, you are not horrid". Now he wasn't being facetious or rude with the comment (even though it may sound that way) and he definitely was not admiring me but knowing the person, it took a lot for him to even indicate that I was somewhat okay. The affirmation was derived in the fact that while he knew I was a guy it wasn't "Dude, you look horrible". Again all context.

So for me it is about affirmation irrespective of whether I am read or not.

Hugs

Isha

[mykell]

yes...its the forums fault....i never ever thought i would be posting a photo of myself in heels and a dress on the web...but got comfortable enough knowing i wasnt alone, then the new wig i got made such a difference, wow i look better now....makeup tips....still feels weird offering and receiving tips between folks here but wow that looks much better....soo then it turned into I GOT THIS....and now i felt if only i could muster up the nerve....and then one day i told myself im ready....its the forums fault....

i got in the car transformed into "blendy girl" and walked into a room of complete strangers and felt totally normal ? how could that be, im now terrified of how at ease and comfortable i felt that day, wanting to get out and do it again.....did i mention its the forums fault....felt so good i had to drive way too close to home before changing back....

for me it is like a peacock...im still just a person, but i did not try to get the attention but like the response i received....sometimes i stress myself when meeting new people or new situations and this time no heart pounding out of my chest, just a calm normalcy that frightened me, how...im always so nervous about things, why does it feel so right....its the forums fault....i just felt normal, didnt want to make it too simple and i think its not too complicated, either way i feel like myself, "blendy girl" was more fun....but she is high maintenance....

thanks everybody.....

[Claire Cook]

Hi Katey,

Another thoughtful thread -- thanks for starting it! I'm not sure that I fit into either of the categories that you describe. I certainly do not dress to attract attention from either gender. (However, my manicurist the other day said "You know, you really are a sexy looking woman. Do men hit on you?". I don't try to look sexy, and the last thing I want is attention from men!) I'm usually out in the daytime, doing women things usually do around here, and dressed as most women here in S Florida dress during the day -- jeans / capris / shorts (sometimes a long skirt) , sandals, comfortably cool tops and minimal makeup. I rarely wear a dress,unless I'm going out to dinner with girl friends and Sue.

So I guess I sort of fit into you affirmation category. If I'm looking for affirmation, it's to be accepted as a woman (or at least a reasonable facsimile!) by other women, because that is how I feel inside. I guess it works, since when the two of us are out and about, we're always addressed as "you girls". Maybe what I mean is affirmation of me, if that makes any sense.

And ... I agree about your avatar!

Hugs, Claire

[Teresa]

Katey,
You've asked a question that for me is hard to answer!
I've always said that if I could get out and about that it wouldn't be as a guy in a dress it would have to be all or nothing and yet I've been caught as you may recall several times when walking the dog . The interaction between the various people has been amusing on both sides, being in a situation where it's too late to run so the alternative is take it on the chin !
Apart from the occasional drive fully dressed at night I still haven't ventured out . At the moment I'm relying on my pictures, so many people have now seen them and all passed very favourable comments . So why am I doing it ? I don't think it is the attention, I'm a friendly enough guy so I get attention because I relate to people ! Why do I need appreciation from people because I'm dressed ? I don't think I do !
I feel it must come down to accepting that the part that desires to be female through whatever cause is looking for the same level of validation and recognition as the male side . No matter how I'm dressed I don't act male or female I just act like me .

[jenn]

Hey Katey,

I used to dress quite a bit. Then a haitus of sorts. Now back to it as much as I can. (in a don't ask don't do relationship) Even though I am nervous when venturing out, I genuinely feel better about myself when wearing womens articles. Whether it just be underdressed or bra straps peeking out from tank top. It may seem weird but I feel like I stand and carry myself better this way.

Jenn

[Judith96a]

Hi Katie,
I can certainly relate to the bit about men not generally expecting, or getting, obvious looks or comments on their appearance (except perhaps from doting SOs!). My 'male' style is rather conservative even outside work! Both my wife and my mother say that I've had the same hairstyle for the past 50 years. 'Judith' is rather more inclined to experiment a little, especially with hair styles and I am more aware of looks and comments in 'Judith mode'. I've no illusions about passing so if someone says that I look good I take the "for a man dressed as a woman" to be implied rather than spoken. It feels good though! However, I wouldn't say that there's any sense in which that feeling good in response to a compliment forms any motivation to cross dress. I'd still do it even if no one ever saw me.

[sometimes_miss]

Well as someone who's not out, and doesn't really want to display myself to anyone when dressed, the attention thing is a definate NO. OTOH, one of the reasons for crossdressing is to satisfy an inner need to self identify as a girl. So by seeing and feeling what I'm wearing indicating as such, the affirmation side is there. Which is probably why I don't spend any time with make up; I can't see it.

[Sarah Louise]

I think there's something in this. I haven't ventured out but when I've posted pictures on here, I've absolutely relished the compliments. Yes, I know that we are all very supporting and probably over-egg them at times but I love being told I look nice. You know what, I love being complimented in male mode also - it just rarely happens. While I compliment my wife on how she looks at least three times a week, it's rarely replicated and I don't look too bad in male mode - even if I say so myself - and no, I'm not loading a picture on boy vs girl mode!

In saying this, I don't think this is why I dress, but I do think it contributes to me carrying on doing it.