In the closet and standing up.

[Julie1123]

This is semi-inspired by a few other posts I've read recently but its also a topic I've been thinking about quite a bit lately. I'm content to remain in the closet for the most part. My girlfriend knows and that's all that really matters. I have a friend that I wouldn't mind telling but haven't yet. Other than that, if someone ever asked me directly I would answer truthfully but I don't feel a need to make it public knowledge to the rest of the people I know. As far as family goes, it probably wouldn't go over so well with my girlfriend's family and would be a mixed bag of reactions in my family.

So to get to the point of my post, with the growing media coverage and the possibility that transgender topics have more of a chance to come up in conversation naturally. How do the closeted among us respond/participate in the conversation without making others wonder why we know so much about the topic? With my friend I've told him that I have a friend who is a crossdresser (so cliche! I know...) and that I've talked to several crossdressers online (The truth! You all are great!) and he's never given any indication that he suspects I might be a crossdresser but I can see how some might wonder.

Also, while I might be safe and content in my closet, I think of those that are out of their closets and need as many people as possible sharing their knowledge when the conversation does come up.

There is definitely no one answer to any of this. I'm mainly just looking for any and all feedback and thoughts from those that are in their closets and those that are out.

[Caden Lane]

While discussing Caitlin Jenner recently, it was commented on that I had a wide breadth of knowledge on the subject. I said I had done a research paper for a psychology class. That seemed to quell their questions to a great extent, it also reinforced my position within the ongoing debate. Admitting you've talked to a few crossdressers on-line may unintentionally out you. They may begin to wonder how you come to be in so many situations where there are crossdressers to talk to, or what their draw for you is.

However, a a crossdresser, you are not under any obligations to reveal your alter ego to anyone you do not deem worthy. I would not call that "in the closet" per se, unless you do not go out dressed. However everyone is different, and they take their fulfillment from dressing in different ways. To each their own.

Ever & Always,
Caden Lane

[pamela7]

if you work in a number of professions e.g. human resources, therapies, training, you would be expected to be knowledgable about TG-related issues.
If you have a friend who works in those, they might have "discussed it with you, down the pub" so to speak ... plenty of "excuses imo

[Samantha2015]

I was talking with a client at her office and she brought up the question about Bruce/Caitlyn. I just said the
only thing I knew about it was from watching the 2 or 3 part Kardashian episodes about Bruce's transition.
I'm not fan of that show but I did see those episodes. Also several documentaries on PBS about transgender people.
I kind of had a chuckle to myself because I had my toenails polished under my work shoes while I was at her office.
I usually don't bring up the topic of CD or TG at all in talking with anyone. Except here of course.

[Yoshisaur]

My reasoning has been that i had done a research paper for my Sociology class with the subject covering genders sex and transgendered people.

[Rachelakld]

People who are in to aeroplanes, have friends in aviation,
People who are in to motor racing, have friends who also motor race
People who are in to cards, have friends who also play cards
People who are in to crossdressing, have friends who cross dress - yes?

The "friends" and associates you have normally come from work, family or "interests" that you have.

[Teresa]

Julie,
As a professional photographer it paid to know as much about the subject as possible to think of the best angles !
On top of that I was always inquisitive or some would say darn right nosey !
As far as CDing is concerned I felt it right to try and dig as deep as I could and find out as much as possible, simply to try and understand it myself and hopefully be able to explain it to others ! The problem is the deeper you dig the more complex it becomes, I think at that point some do say " Nah just get on with it and enjoy it, knowing all about it isn't going to cure you and make you stop doing it !

[Hell on Heels]

Hell-o Julie,
I've been to several neighborhood functions, and on multiple occasions the
conversations have turned towards TG topics. Not wanting to "out" myself to
the entire neighborhood, I just sat there and listened. I'm no educator, and I'm
certainly not going to change someone's opinion as to which restroom they think
I should use.
Just listening to the conversation did however give me a little insight as to how people
around me, that aren't a part of the TG world, view it.
Much Love,
Kristyn

[Jazzy Jaz]

I do alot of teaching in my community and im a very intellectual person so my family, friends, and acquintences are used to me being quite knowledgable about a variety of issues which gives me the oppertunity to educate others about our tg community without outing myself. Most discrimination comes from ignorance and lack of understanding and many people dont even have negative views about us, they simply know that they dont have enough knowledge to have an opinion. Either way it feels great to be able to give people some positive insight. Not everyone will respond in a positive way but i also do lots of teaching about First Nations issues to the public and i must say cross cultural teaching goes a long way.

[mykell]

i used to use Kristyns technique, before finding you all, now i just admit to having a transgendered family member (they dont have to know its me) and offer any knowledge about the remark that i know, when pressed on who ill go back at them and say ill trade for some dirt about theyre family's functioning alcoholic....usually keeps the comments at a minimum after that....

[Katie01]

Hi Julie. My therapist once told me something that helped me a lot. She pointed out that there is a difference between private and secret. It's really no one's business if I crossdress, it's private. When I used to frame it as "secret" I would often feel guilt and shame. It also helps that I can talk openly about it with my girlfriend.

BTW, I love the title of your post, In the closet and STANDING UP. This is pretty much how I approach the topic in conversations. I stand up for equality for everyone, including crossdressers. The color of my panties shouldn't matter!

Best,
Katie

[sometimes_miss]

How do the closeted among us respond/participate in the conversation without making others wonder why we know so much about the topic?

Well, I deal with it like this. If asked, I simply tell them that I was a very screwed up kid from being molested, and went through many years studying psychology in order to figure myself out. Along the way I learned a ton of information about what makes us tick as far as self sexual identity and desires, and where it all comes from. That usually satisfies pretty much anyone's curiosity.

[flatlander_48]

J:

Interesting question. First, right now I would characterize myself as being somewhere between closeted and completely out. I'm a member of 2 crossdressing groups; one social and the other more of a support group, so obviously I'm out to all of them. But, more significantly, I came out as transgender to my LGBT affinity group a month ago. Previously, I've been out to them as a bisexual for a number of years. However, the reason I wanted to come out to them as transgender was that I volunteered to be the MC for our Community Event, put on by the affinity group every October, as DeeAnn. That will be a BIG jump as we are likely to have ~200 people. Maybe it will diffuse any WTF moments, but maybe not. I guess we'll see.

So far, I've only had one brief conversation about Caitlyn Jenner and the topic of transgender. I actually initiated the conversation with a good friend of mine who doesn't know anything about DeeAnn. He really didn't bite on it, but my impression was that he didn't have a real problem with it. He tends to be a news junkie, but directed more towards politics, scientific discoveries, etc. To him, while he is aware of the story, Caitlyn Jenner was probably perceived as no more than a speed bump.

However, if someone else broght up the subject, I wouldn't worry about going pretty deep into the theory. I've been involved in employee affinity groups for 20 years and held offices in various groups, including a presidency. People expect that I would be pretty conversant on equality issues for ethnic minorities, women, those who are differently abled, LGBT folks, etc. and how things play out for the various constituencies. I think I could go pretty far without outing myself.

DeeAnn

[Badtranny]

Who says you have to be 'knowledgeable'?

It's great that you want to be supportive and frankly that's enough. You don't need to be the local expert on transgender people because firstly you're not. Some of us live this life 24/7 and believe me we are not experts. ;-)

You really don't need to tell them the source of your knowledge. What if you didn't know anything about any of this? How would you react to a comment about Caitlyn? Would you be compassionate? Would you be understanding? Or would you just laugh and call her a freak? You don't need to know anything to be a compassionate person who can recognize the struggle of others.

"hey Bob, whaddya think about that Bruce Jenner nonsense?"

"well, it must be pretty rough to feel so wrong in your own skin that you would rather be ridiculed than be a dude anymore"

"damn fellas, looks like Bob is turning queer on us"

"hey if not being an asshole makes me a queer, than you better sign me up for Grindr"

"what's Grindr?"

"nevermind"


...Anyhoo, that conversation went a lil off track but hopefully you get my point. :-)

[Caden Lane]

Hi Julie. My therapist once told me something that helped me a lot. She pointed out that there is a difference between private and secret. It's really no one's business if I crossdress, it's private. When I used to frame it as "secret" I would often feel guilt and shame. It also helps that I can talk openly about it with my girlfriend.

My psychologist gave me the same advice. Some of the best advice I've ever received, and helped my outlook on my dressing entirely.

[Judith96a]

People who are in to aeroplanes, have friends in aviation,
People who are in to motor racing, have friends who also motor race
People who are in to cards, have friends who also play cards
People who are in to crossdressing, have friends who cross dress - yes?

Yep, you got that right! People tend to be knowledgeable only about the things that actually interest them (which is why so many politicians, being interested only in themselves, are ignorant bozos with regard to anything TG related). Display too much knowledge and people will start to wonder where, and more importantly why, you got it!

Not wanting to "out" myself to
the entire neighborhood, I just sat there and listened. I'm no educator, and I'm
certainly not going to change someone's opinion as to which restroom they think
I should use.

Kristyn, great tactics for those of us who are in the closet and need to stay there. Sometimes it's best to just listen. I can't count the number of times that I've been there!

Be careful and stay safe everyone - there's no rewind button!

[flatlander_48]

B:

Slow your roll. I hope that the conversation you wrote was facetious as I don't think I know anyone who would have such a conversation.

My experience set is very different from most here and I think that allows a unique perspective on social issues. I have never claimed to be an expert. What I do have is a broader view of how acceptance works in the population at large.

ANY conversation I have regarding social issues does NOT have any explanation about my background and experiences. I mention it here as the source of where my perspective comes from. It is silly to suggest that I would bring that up in general conversation.

The thing is, there's nothing wrong with compassion, but you need more than that if you are going to be an advocate. You need knowledge. Compassion only gets you as far as "Can't we all just get along? You need a whole lot more that that if you are going to attempt change.

There seems to be this perception that you do have to get hit by a truck in order to know that it hurts. Yet, historically we know that men were involved in the Women's Movement, whites were involved in the Black Civil Rights Movement and straight people have been involved in the Gay Rights Movement. In all of those movements, people outside of the constituency had meaningful roles to play. Clearly not having the experiential piece did not stop their participation. I think that is helpful because their thought process was not weighed down by the pressures of dealing with sexism, racism, homophobia, etc. on a daily basis.

DeeAnn

[CynthiaD]

There are certain people that I cannot come out to. When these folks bring up trans issues, I "tune out" like I'm not interested, and change the subject as soon as it's convenient. To others, I have no problem mentioning that I'm trans myself. Often, it's not necessary to mention it, because I'm already wearing a dress.

[Tina B.]

I am knowledgeable on the subject because I read the internet every morning, and the subject is all over the place these days, no need to mention my first hand knowledge. Besides, I'm a ragging liberal, people expect me to be up on the liberal nonsense I support (nonsense, their words not mine).

[Krisi]

First, if you out yourself to one person (except a wife who doesn't want others to know), you've outed yourself to the world. Your friend tells someone or lets it slip, that person tells another, and so on. If you want to remain in the closet you have to keep the door shut.

Second, when the subject of crossdressing or transgender comes up, unless you are out or want to come out, the best thing to do is pretend you know nothing more than what has been in the news and just listen. Lies like (I have a transgendered friend or family member or I did a paper on it in college) will just lead you deeper and deeper into telling lies to cover up lies.

[Badtranny]

Yikes, nobody is recommending you out yourself.

Why can't you just be supportive? I know totally straight guys who are very supportive of me and gay issues etc. Nobody assumes they're gay or transgender. They're just cool with it. They still make jokes, they still like girls, they still have their man-card.

They're just not squeamish about the topic. Gay people exist. Trans people exist. What's the big deal?

How much do you need to know about cancer to feel compassion for somebody who has it? How gay do you have to be to feel joy for someone who has just come out of the closet?

Don't worry about coming out and sacrificing your privacy. For goodness sakes keep your activities private, I certainly don't need to know what you do when mom's not looking. Be more concerned about just being an open and accepting person, and less concerned about how gay people think you are.

[Helen_Highwater]

In years gone bye it was "queer bashing" that would arise in conversation. It's the, "it's not natural", " They're all pedo's", any number of misconceptions and bigoted responses. I would always say that I didn't give a F*&K what people did in their private lives and then ask of the detractors, "Has the value of your house gone down or the price of petrol and food gone up or the Pound has fallen against the Dollar because you suddenly found out X is gay?" "Answer, no". "How they choose to live their lives is down to them in a free society especially and as it doesn't effect my life one jot why should I worry". "It less normal to support (insert name of their favorite football team)". "Now that is weird". That then moved the conversation on.

And that's the position I would take on the CD issue. As for knowing a bit about it, goodness knows there have been enough documentaries on the telly for a casual observer to be able to have some knowledge of the subject. The standard get out line; "There was a program on I think on channel 4 last year...."

[Julie1123]

Thank you all for the replies. Lots of good feedback here. For me its an interesting duality. Being in the closet, keeping things private, and feeling the need to correct misinformation when I hear it. Sure, we might not be experts, but we at least know a bit more than the average Josephine.

[flatlander_48]

"The more things change, the more they stay the same."

As much as those who have transitioned, or are in the process, like to think that their situations are unique (and to them, they are), there are some distinct similarities to when people started coming out as lesbian, gay and bisexual. Misgendering notwithstanding, the coming out process for LGB folks caused a lot of confusion in the general populace. It was thought to be "a phase" and that people would "come to their senses". Further, MANY relationships did change and MANY did end.

I don't know of any particular study that has sought to understand this process. So, assuming the religious aspects don't come into play (or some other prejudicial thought processes), what can cause relationships to change? I think when LGB or T folks come out, people don't know how to deal with that change of status. If their history is dealing with, and forming relationships with, heterosexual cisgender people, what background is there for dealing with homosexual or non-cisgender people? Some will have enough slack to allow space in their lives for difference, but most won't (at least not in the beginning).

There can also be an internalized aspect to this. Every ally of the LBGT movement is confronted with the possibility that they will be perceived as an LGBT person. In the eyes of some, why would you align yourself with the cause if you weren't part of the constituency? And actually, this is related to my comments above about men being involved in the Women's Movement, etc. Anyway, lack of information about transitioning and why people transition in the first place seems to cause a lot of confusion in people. The response then is to avoid confusion by breaking the relationship, or at least limiting it.

The other thing that could happen when an LGB or T person comes out is that it might touch a nerve with someone about their own issues regarding sexuality or gender. The question is why would you want to continue a relationship with someone when every time you see them or think about them, it brings your own issues into focus?

Finally, when we come out as LGB or T, our basic sensibilities don't change. Whatever qualities we had, both good and bad, do not morph into something different. Perhaps that is also part of the confusion by the population at large.

DeeAnn

[docrobbysherry]

This may sound odd to u, Julie, but few of my vanilla guy friends discuss the things we do here. So, it isn't an issue for me.

I can't recall the last time one asked about what size of breast forms to buy, the best way to tuck, or if his new wig matched his red dress? Maybe your vanilla friends r more rainbow colored than mine?