The tug of war

[sarahcsc]

That's not social construct.

I'm going to agree with Rianna on this. This isn't a social construct.

I couldn't disagree more strongly with this idea.

In response to Leah, Paula, and Rianna, and all others who have read my OP, I do believe I owe you here an apology for not making my stand regarding "gender dysphoria" and "gender identity disorder" clearer and more specific.

This has led to some confusion and misunderstanding.

I have hopefully explained myself better in post #6 but maybe that too is too brief and unclear.

I can also see why some would disagree vehemently because by saying GID is a 'social construct' undermines their entire struggle. I am NOT trying to do that.

But I am also NOT going to tip toe around the elephant in the room that is the social aspect to our individual struggles.

Remember, I said "individual" struggles. I'm saying that to highlight the diversity of the transcommunity since every one here is so different with their own individual challenges. My challenges are largely psychological, interpersonal, and cultural. Others could be more different (eg. biological, economical, and practical. )

Let me reiterate myself once more (I'm not optimistic though):

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GID and GD are NOT THE SAME. (make sure you and I are talking about same thing)
In GID, you are 'disordered'. If that works for you then, yes, remain disordered.
In GD, you are not 'disordered' but you are 'suffering' (dysphoria).

GID is outdated.
GD is the new term adopted in DSM-5.

GID is a social construct hence it was replaced by GD which is more neutral.

By no longer calling your condition a 'disorder', clinicians and researchers are not trying to trivialize your experience, but they are putting some perspective on it.

Maybe being gender dysphoric is not a disorder but a part of the normal human expression. Who knows?

GID is a social construct. Cut out the social element and you are left with GD.

And GD has the biological, psychological, and social elements to it.

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Again, I would like to come to the point made by LeaP and Kimdl:

Why is it that not every transsexual experiences GD, and why does the internal struggle happen for some but not all?

We've discussed briefly about the idea that this could be multifactorial. (ie. biopsychosocial)

But more importantly, are we fighting needlessly with society (the rest of cis-gendered people)?

Should we find an alternative approach to live our lives? One that is more dignified where our happiness is not contingent on other people's acceptance, which we can't realistically expect or force! (Again, I'm not saying we disengage completely with the rest of the cis-gender population)

That is the question...

And this may be the most important question to answer because it may mean the difference between having an internal struggle or not.

Because...

In a world where no gender norms are established, wouldn’t performing SRS be the same as performing any other cosmetic surgery?

Wouldn't there be equal public funding for SRS the way there is for essential surgeries (ie. appendectomy). It does sound like for some of us, having the operation or not may mean the difference between life and death.

Do we still need ‘experts’ to tell us that we are unhappy with bodies because we exhibited symptoms A, B and C when we know it better than anybody else?

Do you think SRS will increase in prevalence or decrease? If you believe it will increase then perhaps society is holding us back now, but if you believe it will decrease then society is doing something very wrong at present.

Just thinking.

Yours,
S

[PaulaQ]

In a world where no gender norms are established, wouldn’t performing SRS be the same as performing any other cosmetic surgery?

1. This world will never exist. I firmly believe that the need for differences between men and women is well established in our minds. The details of how men and women express their gender are completely arbitrary. But in virtually all human societies, such differences and norms exist. Even if they didn't, we'd gender one another rather quickly - this happens within 1/10th of a second. No one teaches us how to do this.

2. Gender norms are much, much looser for women then men. And yet trans men still exist. And they exist for the same reason that many of us MtF's exist - being a man with breasts and no penis feels WRONG to them, just as being a woman without breasts, and no vagina feels horribly, nightmarishly wrong to many of us. Our minds know who we are and how we are supposed to look. The disconnect between our bodies and our internal gender identities are painful for many of us.

You are confusing gender expression with gender identity. No amount of dressing like a woman stops the horrible, horrible nightmares about my genitals that keep me sleepless.

Wouldn't there be equal public funding for SRS the way there is for essential surgeries (ie. appendectomy). It does sound like for some of us, having the operation or not may mean the difference between life and death.

Some of us don't need surgery. The ones who do need it, often really need it - our incredibly high suicide rates are not only because of social stigma and discrimination. They are also caused by the intense discomfort with our bodies that some of us feel.

Do we still need ‘experts’ to tell us that we are unhappy with bodies because we exhibited symptoms A, B and C when we know it better than anybody else?

No. We need experts to help us figure this out for ourselves, if we are having trouble with that, and to insure that we aren't obviously incapable of giving informed consent. (Particularly for anything beyond starting HRT.)

Do you think SRS will increase in prevalence or decrease? If you believe it will increase then perhaps society is holding us back now,

GRS will increase in prevalence. Also GRS will be performed at younger ages than it typically is now. For many of us, this is a childhood condition that could be best treated before puberty, as is increasingly happening now. And yes, until recently, society has done everything it could to hold us back.

[LeaP]

Gender IS intrinsic. Humans will not only always find a way to express it, but to express it in a way that differentiates us. That's why so much discussion of the details (e.g., looser this or tighter that or permissiveness for this or that) are irrelevant. We can tell the boys from the girls in any era, place or culture. Since, in my opinion, being cross-sexed drives you toward the binary, transsexuals will always be gender stressed.

The psych industry is responsible for creating much of the confusion here. It starts with the conflation of various psychological issues and cross-sex conflict. The former gets lumped into GD (improperly, in my opinion). The latter may or may not trigger GD. Paula is describing her own, true GD - clinical levels of distress over the body/mind conflict itself. It is just as clear, however, that there are those who are also cross-sexed who do not experience this. There is gender stress, as I said earlier. There is a need to transition. But not GD per se. Why some are like this while most of us are not is a mystery to me! My working theory is that most personality types are driven to internalize the stress.

[PaulaQ]

LeaP, I agree with you. Why some of us experience these things, and some don't, I can't say. I wish I didn't, and I'm glad some do not, but are able to seek the help they need anyway. One of the most confusing and difficult things about gender identity, and issues with it, is that the experience of various trans people, both their relationship with their gender, and the difficulties they encounter because of it vary over a very, very large range. So large that sometimes it's easy for us as a community to discount the experiences of someone who's feelings on these matters differ significantly from our own.

[Starling]

...Paula is describing her own, true GD - clinical levels of distress over the body/mind conflict itself...My working theory is that most personality types are driven to internalize the stress.

I know it's a true, physical phenomenon. As I grew older, my C-Reactive Protein levels began to soar, and now my arterial plaque is out of proportion to my normal-range cholesterol levels. I'm hoping that the stress-reducing effects of HRT will outweigh its risk of blood-clotting.

Lallie