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Thread: my natural presentation

  1. #1
    Senior Member MsVal's Avatar
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    my natural presentation

    I don't know how some of you girls do it. How you can separate the male from the female. That is something I have trouble doing, and have ceased trying.

    My feminine thoughts and actions have become a normal part of my natural presentation. It just happens. I get maamed and doors held open for me even when I'm not dressed as a woman.

    I don't mind it at all, in fact I quite enjoy it.

    Best wishes
    MsVal
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  2. #2
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    Val,
    If you give graciously then you usually receive the same ! It's good to hear you can finally enjoy what CDing gives after all these difficult years !

    I've just posted about being confused by the way I choose to dress, at the moment it appears less important if I wear a wig and makeup or not !
    I always had it in my mind that to be out of the house would mean totally dressed and a guy in a dress was not going to happen and yet it just feels OK to be dressed in a skirt and top with bra and forms and go about my jobs in and out the house .

    I can understand Claire Cook's comment now that they're not women's clothes but my clothes !

  3. #3
    Martini Girl Katey888's Avatar
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    Congratz on your achievement of harmony and balance MsVal....

    Ah! I have just realised that your name here is shortened from your full title....

    Ms equiValent...

    Think about it... (helps to have at least one proper martini...)

    Enjoy your harmonious being!

    Katey x
    "Put some lipstick on - Perfume your neck and slip your high heels on
    Rinse and curl your hair - Loosen your hips, and get a dress to wear"
    Stefani Germanotta

  4. #4
    Silver Member CynthiaD's Avatar
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    Feminine is also my natural presentation. When I'm in male mode, I just remind myself that I'm an actress playing a role. Then, I have no trouble staying in character.

  5. #5
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    I agree Cynthia, I'm always a chic but just sometimes find it more convenient to "act" like a guy (yuk) 😣

  6. #6
    Gone to live my life
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    Hi Val,

    Finding balance is a good thing and makes life that much enjoyable. CONGRATS!

    Cheers

    Isha

  7. #7
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    So happy for you and your comfort level.

  8. #8
    Call me Pam pamela7's Avatar
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    Going back to MsVal's OP, I feel this is a great, and possible quite serious question for us - for me, anyway.

    Can we or do we separate? If we have a predisposition to that, perhaps. Some people are Jekyll and Hyde at work and home, and are like two different people, while others are the same wherever. MsVal, you sound like your Ms Consistent, whereas lots of people are natural Ms-many.

    I/me/myself wonder, being the same person wherever, yet adapting to my surroundings, I wonder if the more time I spend here the more femme I get. I also feel like my self is shifting into an a-gendered role, or something like "who the hell cares my gender, I'm happily partnered to my SO, so treat me like a human". But the social world has its signals, the male eye contact, the female eye-avoidance of males, and female-female smile. I'm transitioning into life that I feel is more like yours. I'm not there yet but i can see the next few steps on the path.

    thanks for the thought.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJFyz73MRcg
    I used to believe this, now I'm in the company of many tiggers. A tigger does not wonder why she is a tigger, she just is a tigger.

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  9. #9
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    I agree with Pamela. We had an interesting discussion around here last night, which, without opening the kimono too much, basically involved my coming to my realization that I present and can often act very feminine (and I will get called out for being downright campy lol), while she was in fact at the core quite masculine, and in so in reality what were looking at was two sides of the same acceptance coin. Just as I've always known she is very masculine, which hell I'm perfectly fine with, she's known the converse with me since the day we met.

    Fortunately, very fortunately, neither of us has to change any fundamental aspect of ourselves. Our challenge is acceptance (we've got that part pretty well now) and then moving forward from there not in an assigned gender presentation, but what I would call our core genders. So to add on to Pamela's sentiment, yes there is a certain amount of androgyny there (which we both really find a turn on really), and we may have in many respects flipped the traditional 'husband' and 'wife' gender assignments, at the end of the day, who cares?

    As it turns out, we care, but in a quiet distinct sense. We care about our mental health and each other's mental health, we care about being honest, open and accepting. That's internal - what we are teaching ourselves not to care about, and she is much better at this than I, are the opinions of others whom we have no reason to care about, all the external guff.

    So far, wonderfully good. I knew this would be a journey of self discovery, but the delightful part is discovering that we are both on the same cruise ship, as it were. Aloha! lol.

  10. #10
    Aspiring Member LaurenS's Avatar
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    Not sure if this is related, but for the past several months, I've been shaved all over, begun thinning my eyebrows, moisturize, take care of my facial skin, and often let my nails get "too long" before trimming. Nothing that I think is too obvious. I underdress frequently, but nothing that can be seen. I also don't think I have feminine mannerisms when in public. At least no one has mentioned it.

    So... When checking out in stores, I'm frequently referred to as "sweetie" or "honey". Is that "girl-code" for acknowledging that they suspect, or am I just being paranoid. My guy friends - which are very conservative - act no different.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm comfortable with myself, and I like being called sweetie, I'm just wondering if I've taken things a bit too far.

  11. #11
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    This is an interesting point for me. I get it all the time when shopping, even if I am completely butched. It may be mannerism, inflection, walk, I don't really know (I'll have to ask). But almost invariably, the women will zero in on exactly why I am there - perhaps its size, selection, bi-dar, who the hell knows. I dropped the "shopping for my wife" nonsense long ago. So, we'll sit there and comfortably natter on at the counter with sweetie, honey, dear - all perfectly fine. I don't think that's taking it too far. I see it as a real compliment and genuine acceptance when this happens to me - these moments are usually highpoint in my day.

  12. #12
    Aspiring Member LaurenS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belle Cri View Post
    This is an interesting point for me. I get it all the time when shopping, even if I am completely butched. It may be mannerism, inflection, walk, I don't really know (I'll have to ask).
    Exactly. I am so curious to know if it's my imagination, or they can really tell, and how.

    I'm not changing a thing in my routine, because I like it too, even if it is just my imagination.

  13. #13
    Aspiring Member msniki48's Avatar
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    Val

    not having to compartmentalize is a wonderful thing...Like Katie said congrats on achieving harmony. I present feminine and have to be conscious when I am presenting to males [ construction industry ] but when I am speaking to women....oooops I slip out like butter....lol

    hugs

    niki
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  14. #14
    Senior Member Angela Marie's Avatar
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    My natural presentation has become increasingly feminine as I have come to terms with her and allowed her free reign. That having been said circumstances dictate a male presentation most of the time. However knowing my true orientation gives me great comfort.

  15. #15
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    I suppose that's a good thing because it makes it more likely that you will actually pass as a woman when trying to do so. On the other hand, it could be a problem in certain situations so it's best if you can turn it on and off as appropriate.

  16. #16
    Silver Member Tina_gm's Avatar
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    To Lauren S, while perhaps an SA might be on to you, and girl coding, more likely it is just how they are for all customers, male or female, regardless of how they are. (macho men vs, androgynous) for example. A couple of times I felt the same... they must be on to me, then heard them with the exact same referencing to other customers, either female or a guy much more macho than myself.
    Chickens should be allowed to cross the road without having their motives questioned

  17. #17
    Senior Member UNDERDRESSER's Avatar
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    Meh. You present how you present, that's you. If it's working for, congratulations! Enjoy! If you need, to present in a certain way, i.e. to pass, or from the other point of view, to not seem feminine or gay, well that's something else. I present male, but I'm finding the girls around me are for the most part, more relaxed around me, much more likely to engage in banter. I get the feeling that it's something similar as to how they might interact with a gay male, even though they all know I'm a hetero relationship. (With someone that many of them call a friend)
    "Normal is what you get when you average out the weirdness that everybody has." Quote from my SO

    Normal is a setting on a washing machine, or another word for average.

    The fact that I wear a skirt as a male should not be taken as a comment on what you do, or do not wear, or how you wear it.

  18. #18
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    Under - that's quite incisive. It is extraordinarily difficult to make meaningful comparisons across a broad spectrum. I think we all present modally, to our best advantage in a given situation - how could you not? You can toss around various flavors of sexuality like so many delirious spice combinations, but it does come down to a desire to be seen as worthy and attractive in one's own right, no matter what the particular manifestation. I can't speak for everyone, but I dress to flirt and attract. So does my SO, but we do it in intriguingly different styles. All the more fun. The minute the joy and fun leaves all of this, I stop. I've taken long journeys to be miserable, and this is not one of them.

  19. #19
    Senior Member UNDERDRESSER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belle Cri View Post
    I can't speak for everyone, but I dress to flirt and attract. So does my SO, but we do it in intriguingly different styles. All the more fun. The minute the joy and fun leaves all of this, I stop. I've taken long journeys to be miserable, and this is not one of them.
    I guess part of what I do, wearing skirts, is about looking attractive, not flirting exactly, but something like it. I've heard GGs say that the fact they dress in an attractive manner is not about attracting a new mate, but more of a confidence thing, a statement and a confirmation that they've "still got it"

    It's something like that for me, plus it's a statement that this is acceptable for a male as well.

    Working with a whole bunch of women and girls that are generally fit and trim, that often wear athletic and very body conscious clothing can be, umm, a little distracting, but generally makes for a nicer time at work. I think the girls appreciate that they can find the same for me. (I hope) Every conversation I have had about it, that's what they say, anyway.
    "Normal is what you get when you average out the weirdness that everybody has." Quote from my SO

    Normal is a setting on a washing machine, or another word for average.

    The fact that I wear a skirt as a male should not be taken as a comment on what you do, or do not wear, or how you wear it.

  20. #20
    Aspiring Member LaurenS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gendermutt View Post
    To Lauren S, while perhaps an SA might be on to you, and girl coding, more likely it is just how they are for all customers, male or female, regardless of how they are. (macho men vs, androgynous) for example. A couple of times I felt the same... they must be on to me, then heard them with the exact same referencing to other customers, either female or a guy much more macho than myself.
    NNNOOOOOOO! Say it ain't so!

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  21. #21
    Senior Member MsVal's Avatar
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    With the recent public awareness of transgender issues came the awareness of how to how to address transgender persons, and buy extension, how to treat them. I wonder if "Use the pronoun that matches their presentation." is morphing into "Treat the feminine ones as you would any other women."

    What happens when someone who normally treats women poorly follows the mantra "Treat the feminine ones as you would any other women."?

    So then, are we "blending", "passing", or neither, but simply being accepted? Does "pandering" come into it somehow?

    Best wishes
    MsVal
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  22. #22
    Senior Member UNDERDRESSER's Avatar
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    As someone who is dealing with retail customers all the time, I try to treat everyone the same. Our "shop" has gained a reputation amongst women that they will get treated fairly, and not talked down too. (the "industry" we work in has a terrible reputation for that) The only issue I have is that I try to maintain a neutral approach, I try to avoid specifically gendered pronouns. In fact, I try to avoid them all together, "How is everything over here? Any questions?" that sort of thing. Mostly that's because I screw up identification of gender on a fairly regular basis, long hair and the like tends to throw me off when viewing from behind.
    "Normal is what you get when you average out the weirdness that everybody has." Quote from my SO

    Normal is a setting on a washing machine, or another word for average.

    The fact that I wear a skirt as a male should not be taken as a comment on what you do, or do not wear, or how you wear it.

  23. #23
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    Funny, I used to work retail management years ago, and I would always tell my floor folks never ever to make assumptions about a customer based on how they are dressed or what they look like. This was at a high end retail store in Manhattan (women's activewear, I could spot a size across a room, still can lol). Sure enough some frumpy young woman who looked like she got her stuff at salvation army came in - enormous ticket. We also had a couple of ladies who would come to us, often by private appt if it could be arranged, and they would just buy out the store given half the chance. You couldn't have asked for better, more fun customers.

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