Aside from the 'calming' effect and the obvious physical effects, do you think it has an other phsycological effect (increasing feminine mannerisms, makes you 'feel' more like a woman) or would that be a side effect of the physical changes? Just adding to my reasearch...no, not writing a phsyc thesis, just curious 😉
Are you transitioning, thinking of transitioning, curious...? Being a medical person let me explain, hormones don't make you walk, talk, dance, or anything else "feminine". That is all learned behavior. As to "feeling like a woman." I wouldn't know how a woman feels. I know how I feel.Originally Posted by Robin414
If you are considering hormones to "feel" like a woman, you are way off track. Acting "feminine" isn't a result of estrogen. I am not even sure calming effects is really part of the hormone or more the fact that those who use it feel better about themselves. The physical changes do occur, to a point. I will never lose the shoulders, the vocal range won't change much and hips are pretty much a no go.
Don't think hormones will make your life all "unicorns and rainbows". They are just part of the tool box.
(addendum: it pretty much kills your libido...that it does do)
Last edited by Lorileah; 07-26-2015 at 10:36 PM.
The earth is the mother of all people and all people should have equal rights upon it.
Chief Joseph
Nez Perce
“Love isn't a state of perfect caring. It is an active noun like struggle. To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.” - Fred Rogers,
Not really, no. I did not expect any either. I changed my body to fit my mind, not the other way around.
It's Frances with an E, like Frances Farmer. Francis is a man's name.
I think the 'calming effect' is more from making all the decisions, talking to all the doctors and psychs and finally realizing you've taken that huge step forward. Like others have intimated, here and previously, you either are female and HRT is one tool to help align body and mind or there's no legitimate reason for the medication.. If you think you need hormones to make you 'feel like a woman', you definitely should not be taking them!!
Call me Donna, please
yikes! 😯
I guess...I'm 'thinking' 😯
Last edited by Rianna Humble; 07-27-2015 at 01:48 AM. Reason: Multiposting is making a post directly one after another, when you should have edited the additional comments into your first post
Hormones really don't do much, and everything they do is pretty subtle. The younger you are, the more you can expect in regard to feminization.
They definitely don't have any effect on mannerisms, speech, or the sound of your voice.
They may affect your walk though if the patch slips between your cheeks.
Had this question brought up yesterday, so not to thread jump, but after being on hormones for awhile,
do any feel that your decision making changes with the lowering of T ?
Hormones killed my anxiety in 3 days. That confirmed to me estrogen was what my brain and body needed and missed. Physical changes have been lackluster. I have some breast growth that can be accentuated with a bra. My skin softened and my facial pores shrunk. My genitals have shrunk to the point it's easy to hide in a woman's bathing suit. My libido has also taken a hit. My hips are just as skinny and non existent as before.
Those are the effects HRT I have experienced. YMMV.
Now all the other crap that goes with transition still have to dealt with. Coming out. Living every day as the opposite gender. Making a living. If you are in an existing relationship or marriage. Redefining the relationship or in many cases. Hostililty resulting in aTotal and complete break.
It is a difficult, challenging thing to do. I don't recommend it unless you are at there point life has no meaning and you are just going through the motions trying to get the energy to survive. Transition gives you the freedom to be who you are and project your identity to the outside world. It stops the internal war many of us wage. For many it cures the GD. That's it. All the other life stressors are still present. Transition absolutely adds stressors to your life. But you get to deal with them on a different level.
The idiom " Don't transition unless you need to". Is the best advice I was given and the best advice anyone can take. But if you do transition. Be prepared to commit to teach the level of comfort that kills your GD and stops the inner war.
"When failure is off the table the only thing left is to negotiate levels of success" M Hobbes
"Never Let your Fear Decide Your Fate" Awolnation
"A new dawn destroys the tranquility of the darkness" Steph W
I've honestly not noticed much of a difference. I'm happier with myself now, but that's because I'm living as a woman and not necessarily from the hormones. Specifically, I haven't had any of the experiences people said I might such as crying at pictures of puppies or sentimental movies.
As Lorileah said, RIP libido. But that's as much a physical as psychological effect, I think.
HRT saved my life. Two years ago, I suffered massive depression, anxiety, panic attacks. Those words don't begin to describe the anguish I felt. I was in such pain that I didn't want to live any more. I'd attempted suicide. At their crescendo, I'd have small nervous breakdowns, the longest one about 24 hours, where i just wasn't myself, and i definitely dared not look in a mirror for fear of what would look back at me. Anti-depressants, anti-anxiety meds didn't scratch the surface of these feelings. I honestly don't know how I held on. I wanted to die - I just wanted the pain to end.
Within a couple of months after starting HRT, I felt normal. The awful feelings were gone. I'd never felt normal before, I realized.
My emotions are different now, the range is higher - higher highs, lower lows, and I can go from zero to bitch way fast at times. They are also much more complex and nuanced. I can feel good about something, and bad about it in a way, and that feels ok now, for instance. It feels like, emotionally, I see the world in color now, while before I did not. I'm very emotional now, and I like this.
I've always felt like a woman, it was acting like a man that took the effort.
It hasn't made me automatically pick up on female socialization. Quite a lot of what women do is learned at a young age. My voice, mannerisms (some of those have come quite naturally), how I communicate as a woman, much of that I've had to learn. In a lot of ways, the hard part hasn't been learning those things, but rather unlearning old conditioned male behaviors.
I'm much more extroverted now than I was before. I spend more time in my heart, rather than my head.
The feminine part of me, the part I hid for so long is largely fearless. This is a little weird feeling still, given how much of my life has been dominated by fear. I have no explanation for why this is so, it just seems to be.
My libido tanked from dysphoria long before I started on HRT. It came back, with a vengeance, about 6 months later. At this point, it's actually kind of ridiculous. The odd part about that is that while I like sex just an awful lot, I don't feel the kind of urgency I used to feel. I can feel very strong desire, and generally, without too much trouble, shelve those feelings for a time. When I do finally express them though they tend to be quite intense. I'll be curious how this changes, or if it does, post op.
I started anti-androgens about 6-7 weeks before hormones.
Lowering T significantly relieved anxiety and virtually decapitated anger and aggression. I would say they are the primary factor in killing libido for me, as mine tanked during this period. It wasn't gone yet, though, as it took over a year to get my levels down to where they are now.
Taking E has a major impact on the way your brain works. Aging and cognition, non-genomic effects on synaptic signaling, activation patterns, mood, and more. None directly perceivable as such and I would also describe the perceivable effects as subtle. Like others, I describe "feeling more like me." While I have little doubt that reactions and behaviors have been affected (and I don't mean the elicitation of "feminine" characteristics), it's not possible to isolate these to the E.
I'm not sure if I'm more emotional or if my emotions are more accessible and integrated. I definitely recover more quickly to perceived hurts - this was a major impact on my life.
No and no. First, I don't regard transition as gender change per se, but as gender role change. Learned behaviors have their place, but it seems to me that they are aspects of integration more than transition itself. (A somewhat soft distinction.) To me transition is about mind-body alignment. Transition is obviously highly controversial in some circles, but subtlety isn't a reason.Isn't the way physical changes and learned behaviour interact and reinforce each other, what gender change and sex change in its physical aspects are all about? The fact that it is so subtle and hard to understand -- isn't that what makes transition so controversial?
Last edited by LeaP; 07-27-2015 at 12:35 PM.
Lea
I can say M2F HRT has calmed me and lifted me out of a decades long depression. I also feel much better about my body. I never really felt like a rough-and-tumble dude in my life.
Having said the above I do not feel the urge to function in society as a woman, change my male gender designation, nor my name. Being on HRT is sufficient for me.
M2F HRT does NOT raise the pitch of one's voice as I can attest, since I am still a basso profundo. My D cup breasts are more in keeping with my wide hips I have had since puberty, and I don't miss the male scent nor the hairiness on my body.
John
Last edited by JohnH; 07-27-2015 at 12:28 PM.
John (Legal name)
Preferred pronouns: he, his, him
For me it has made a difference in how I think. Now mind you I have been only on them for 5/6 weeks but it has made a huge difference. Acording to my wife night and day.
the sex drive is toast.
My decision making has changed a little. (Not so bull headed I think)
I'm not in that bad place anymore and am looking forward to each day.
I actually dress less then I did.
I always had feminine mannerisms but hid them very well.
I am happier at work and more confident ( the confidance I don't understand? )
BUT I yell more and the temper is 0 to bitch in less then a second)
this is only at work of course. That's it.
It's the trade I'm in I guess.or I just a bitch 😈
I guess in a nut shell you don't take hormones to become, feel or act like a women. You take that trip to fine piece for once in your life.
I can't say anymore then that because I've only been on this trip for such a short time there is still a lot of changes to come.
That's my 2 cents worth. If I have it worded anything wrong sorry.
Julie Summers
I have been on HRT for 3 months. I have been very grateful that I started. I wake up with so much more optimism! Yes I can get irritable quickly but don't stay there long. For the most part I am much more calm and feel like myself. It was a good decision to start. My breats are growing and my wife and I are amazed. I have to pinch myself sometimes to make sure it's not just a dream. My skin is softer and I have a little glow about me! No it hasn't made me act any more feminine than before. I might feel more free to be me since I get to be me most of the time now.
Suzanne
HRT won't make you feel like a woman. However, HRT does bring emotional changes. I believe that a combination of presenting as female and taking HRT helped me to relieve my dysphoria. I noticed several emotional effects of HRT since I have started.
1. Since puberty, I felt like my body was really icky and gross and the most repulsive thing in the world. This feeling disappeared within a few days of starting HRT. To some degree that awful feeling started fading once I started presenting as female, but initiating HRT finally eliminated those feelings. For the first time I feel comfortable in my own body, and I feel comfortable with getting intimate with someone.
2. I started dating my boyfriend well over a month before starting HRT. After 6 weeks on HRT, and nearly 2.5 months into my relationship, I finally felt free to seriously kiss, and French kiss, him.
3. I felt an initial high my first week on HRT.
4. I feel higher highs, lower lows, and overall more emotional.
5. After about a month on HRT, my boyfriend and a good friend of mine in the trans community noticed that I seemed WAY more relaxed and comfortable in my own skin. This is also the time I came out at AA. Everyone who saw me that night, and ever since that night, noticed the same thing, that I am WAY more relaxed and natural now. Not sure if this is completely the hormones, or maybe it's coming out at AA and telling all my friends. But maybe it is an effect of one month of HRT.
6. Effects on female mannerisms. I'm not sure if HRT truly affects the way I walk, talk, or mannerisms. Other people have noticed I walk more gracefully, my mannerisms are more feminine, and some subtle changes in my voice. Not sure if it's entirely HRT, or me accepting myself and letting go of learned male behaviors, and accepting natural female behaviors.
7. I cry WAY more than I used to. Emotional effects are real.
8. I feel way more sensitive emotionally, and physically too. When I get intimate with my boyfriend, this is very noticeable.
9. My sex drive is way lowered but has not disappeared completely. My sex drive is more or less a normal female sex drive. No desire for auto-eroticism any more.
I was on a lower dose of HRT for the first 6 months. Once my doctor put me on a higher dose (the one he deems the "normal" dose for transwomen - and he treats lots of transwomen and transmen) I started crying WAY more. Physical changes became more pronounced.
Physical changes are generally subtle and take a long time. How long changes take, and how much changes you get, depends on a combination of the age you start HRT at, your genetics, and your overall health. Drinking and smoking are definitely bad ideas and some doctors will make you quit smoking before starting HRT.
HRT will not change your bone structure, and will not eliminate facial hair. You need electrolysis or laser to remove the beard. Sorry, you can't change your bone structure.
Emotional effects of both male and female hormones are real. Just ask any cis-man or cis-woman. T increases sex drive, E make you more emotional.
Last edited by Michelle789; 07-27-2015 at 01:25 PM.
I've finally mastered the art of making salads. My favorite is a delicious Mediterranean salad.
I still have to wonder though about the placebo effect on most of this. Those who were angry are told estrogen will calm you down. If that were true they would use it on violent males.Castration has been tried...didn't work. It just made angry sterile men. It makes you happier, but is that because you want it to make you happier? It makes you think differently? This is just reinforcing a stereotype that females cannot think like men. It's an antidepressant. Then it should work on women who are depressed...no?
OK, it saved your life, but really, if tomorrow they gave you oil with no estrogen, would you see a reversal? I had to go off estrogen for 10 days to get accurate measurements. I didn't suddenly become the Hulk or decide to join the Army to fight.
Passivity and hormones aren't proven links. The alpha male in the pack may not have more testoterone than the Beta male. He may have less but gained advantage in other ways. In wolf packs, it isn't always an alpha male...it is more often an alpha female who controls and alpha male (and the beta and the Charlie....). I fear too many people here put way too much faith that when they get HRT, the world becomes bright and cheery. I think this is proven when people here buy OTC fakes and suddenly become Marilyn Monroe.The mind is a strong force on what you do and how you act. I just have to convince you that what I give you will fix whatever is wrong.
It will do to your behavior what you think it should do. Classic is a thread running right now that says when someone dresses suddenly house work doesn't suck anymore.
The earth is the mother of all people and all people should have equal rights upon it.
Chief Joseph
Nez Perce
“Love isn't a state of perfect caring. It is an active noun like struggle. To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.” - Fred Rogers,
Robin, here's a point u may have missed: I dated, lived with, and married a number of GG women. All long before I began dressing and having any gender issues. Looking back at ALL those women, I can't remember one that did everything in a feminine manner! I often thot those traits were "cute", endearing, and maybe even fem at the time. Because they were being done by women!
Thinking about that, I realize tho I was a completely masculine man until I became Sherry, when I see pics of Sherry doing certain things it looks kind of fem. When I do them, not at all. The psychology of doing them in fem should not be ignored. I'm suggesting that ALL of us do things differently. But, if we do them in our fem persona? They may seem to be more fem to others!
And, as many stated here, if there's particular fem traits u wish to develop, they CAN be learned. Putting on lipstick, brushing long hair, etc. r things most men don't do until they start dressing. So, it's pretty easy to copy how women do them. We naturally look and feel fem doing those things. But, I'd been walking like a guy for 50 years. Altho many women do not wear hi heels and often walk like rodeo bull riders, I wanted to walk like sexy runway models do. After destroying countless spike heels and damaging my hardwood floors, I think I've developed a sort of sexy, fem gait. Practice, practice, practice. But, most things women do probably don't feel fem to them. They just look fem to us, because real women r doing them. Think about it!
U can't keep doing the same things over and over and expect to enjoy life to the max. When u try new things, even if they r out of your comfort zone, u may experience new excitement and growth that u never expected.
Challenge yourself and pursue your passions! When your life clock runs out, you'll have few or NO REGRETS!
Agreed. I think the placebo effect is very high. Or maybe not so much the placebo effect as general happiness that physical changes in the right direction are finally taking place.
HRT has worked very well for me as far as alleviating depression and anger and getting my quality of life back again.
Again from Anne Vitale's page, a Q&A below. Actually here is her website link too so I don't sound like a broken record: http://www.avitale.com/
15. Is there a diagnostic test, for example, genetic testing, that will let one know if they are gay, lesbian, transsexual or heterosexual?
No. there is no genetic test that can be administered to tell anyone what their sexuality is. That can only be done by honest self examination. Transsexualism, which has nothing to do with sexual preference, is different. We can't do a genetic test, but we can administer cross-sex hormones and see if the individual responds positively or negatively to them. That procedure is routinely done after the individual has had an extensive period of psychotherapy and is fully aware of the consequences. A negative reaction would result in extreme anxiety and discomfort. A positive reaction is one where the individual reports a calming affect. Often described as a feeling of well-being.
15A. How long does it take, if at all, to determine a reaction from hormones?
There is ALWAYS a reaction to taking cross sex exogenous hormones. If the individual has a history of gender dysphoria or as I would prefer to call it, Gender Expression Deprivation Anxiety, the primary reaction is a relaxing one. That is the individual experiences feelings of well being as the anxiety is relieved. If a non gender dysphoric person is exposed to cross sex, exogenous hormones, the opposite occurs; a state of anxiety is induced that goes away once the hormones are no longer being taken. The time period for all of this to occur is very short, ranging from hours to no more then a few days.
The other, more physical changes take longer and are not easily reversable. If a genetic male takes estrogens, he will start to notice tenderness in his nipples in a matter of weeks as the first signs of breast development. The rest of the feminzation will gradually happen over the rest of the period he continues to take the hormones. Depending on the person's age and level of male development at the start of the process, it usually takes six to twelve months before the changes are so advanced that friends and acquaintances would notice and may start to inquiry about your appearance. Of course, a spouse or lover would notice much sooner.
In genetic females that take androgens, the physical changes are far more profound and happen very quickly. Menses stop within the first or second scheduled periods and there will be an strong and profound increase in libido. Within the first few months beard growth, body hair and voice changes begin to be obvious to the casual observer. FTMs often speak of experiencing general body pain as male pattern muscles start to develop.
Last edited by Marleena; 07-27-2015 at 07:07 PM. Reason: Added link
Lowering T took down my anger, best I can tell, not taking E. Relative happiness (for that's what it is) is a function of many things and addressing many conditions. It is also a function of increasing self-confidence over several years. That said, I've gone off HRT twice, each time for a week plus. My wife noted the effects before I did, about 4 days in. By the time I did, I was slipping into a dissociated state again.
There's no scientific question that the sexes think (process information) differently. The controversy is over whether or not it's limiting to women (or men, for that matter). I think not. It's only one factor among many, there are many paths to the same ends (where that's even relevant), and it's irrelevant in individual cases anyway, as are most population-level characteristics.
Studies have shown that low serum estradiol levels in women of childbearing age are associated with depression. High levels are associated with anxiety. Hormonal balance, however, is a complicating factor, as is the rapid changing of levels throughout the menstrual cycle. Exogenous estradiol IS administered for its anti-depressive effect, but not in combined hormone therapy, as it's ineffective. When it's administered for this purpose, modest serum levels are targeted - well below those used for trans feminization.
HRT didn't make me bright and cheery, but it did help integrate me, allow me to access and express my emotions, and make me feel normal.
Lea
As soon as I started HRT, I had the knowledge of a doctor about its effects. I also suddenly knew everything about transitioning!
Okay, I go with a light level of effects with the emotional effects of being ourselves having a greater impact. There is nothing better than total authenticity! And that is whatever your identity, presentation, or goal is.
After almost seven years on hormones and meeting an army of trans people, I am not sure about anything anyone. All the more so about what someone can expect from anything. My perspective has changed a lot. For instance, I no longer see the difference between transness as an incurable mental disorder and a condition with physiological roots. If someone cannot stop believing they are the other gender, than transition is the course of action either way to alleviate gender-related anxiety.
Likewise with hormones, so many people seem to believe that emotional changes or personnality changes have something to do with the new chemistry. I don't. In my case, I cried a lot and was super emotional before, something that has not changed or increased with hormones. I really believe that transitioners coming to terms with their condition and being completely honest let go. Women are not "more emotional," men are taught to repress theirs. Hormonal induced reduction of libido is a totally physiological phenomenon.
As far as liking flowers more and what not. That is wishful thinking. Again, some men are taught to dismiss beauty as matter of course (after all, they are mammoths to hunt. Who has time for flowers?). Again, letting go of that stuff may make a difference. I did not care for flowers before, I don't care for them now. Pretty much all anyone is before HRT will be the same after, apart from a little less self-censorship. I, for one, did not change gender. I changed sex. All I was and all I liked are still the same.
It's Frances with an E, like Frances Farmer. Francis is a man's name.
I largely agree, Frances, with perhaps some quibbling about emotional expression.
You must be exhausted ... I think that may be the longest post of yours I've read to-date!
Lea
I became crazy more attracted to masculine guys with a bit of beards/body hair after starting HRT whereas before I was attracted to them but not in the same way or nearly as much.
Might just be my sexuality mentally realigning itself now that I'm comfortable with who I am so I won't say it's the hormones.
LOLAs soon as I started HRT, I had the knowledge of a doctor about its effects. I also suddenly knew everything about transitioning!
Me too. Those were good days. Now I don't remember any of that stuff that I used to be so sure of.
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