Can I still be a woman without wanting fancy clothes and glamour?

[Jessica EnFemme]

I don't know, but for some reason I don't care much about clothes, makeup and all that and yet still feel I am female.

Is this weird? I just want to wear comfortable clothes, not worry about glamour and boobs and all that, just live my life as I am. Look normal in public, that's all.

Who doesn't love dressing up in makeup and everything. But I'm middle-aged, divorced, and know I can't be glamorous anymore and accept it.

I'm pre-op and look at people like Caitlyn Jenner with her glorious top-designer outfits and I just don't relate. I just want to live quietly as myself.

I'm having trouble with this. I'm supposed to live as a female for a year, but does that mean wearing slinky dresses and pumps every day? Can't females be normal and wear what's comfortable? Like the normal women in WalMart? No makeup, stretch pants, just whatever. Aren't they still women though? Can't I do the same and still be a woman?

How did you girls get through that first year before surgery?

[PretzelGirl]

Nope, all you have to do is relate to being yourself. Gender Identity is what it is when you determine your internal sense of self is female. Gender Expression is what you wear, how you present, how you act. Two separate things.

Live as a female means to live as yourself. There is no one pulling a Miss USA grading system on you. Present as you wish. The living as a woman for a year thing is losing a little traction, but it really is about determining your real life and living it. I suspect there is a name change for you and telling others. Then living as Jessica. That's all, nothing more complicated, although that is plenty tough enough by itself.

[Lorileah]

I'm having trouble with this. I'm supposed to live as a female for a year, but does that mean wearing slinky dresses and pumps every day?

How did you girls get through that first year before surgery?

OK, kinda worried here because you seem to have a skewed idea of what being a woman is. Look around, do you see very woman wearing slinky dresses and heels? I wonder what your perspective is. Let's stop and consider what RLE is. You present and live as a woman for year. What woman? Any woman. There isn't a cookie cutter.

How did I survive? I just did what I needed to as the person I am. In my case that was makeup and heels and hair...but that was me. That is what is comfortable.

[arbon]

You don't need to do it like Caitlyn. I don't know why you would think so.

I usually dress very plain, without much or any make up. It's not a big deal really.
However would say it was important to look as feminine as I could early on for people to take me more seriously. But not to the point of making myself stand out by trying to look real glamorous or anything.

[Nigella]

There is a time for the glitz and glam, everyday life is not it. As already pointed out, look about you, check out all women, only a very small percentage are dressed to the nines on the high street in broad daylight.

Clothing does not make someone male or female,

[becky77]

Jeans and a comfy top most of the time, I do wear makeup everyday.
I wore heels at my friends wedding last summer and at a funeral in February, that's it.

Why do you think RLE is all glam? Who told you that?

A few years ago as I was waiting for my first appointment with the gender clinic in London, I was told (not by a professional), you should wear a skirt as they want to see you are serious.
I totally ignored that and went as I am, a skirt doesn't prove anything of who you are.
Yet I saw a few people who turned up over-done and they looked wrong to me. Time and a place and all that.

Be yourself otherwise what's the point?

[Kaitlyn Michele]

if you could see me you'd know the answer....old navy and boscovs.....yoga pants and jeans


I have specific advice....if you are for real, find clothes that SUIT YOU..... emotionally and physically... what makes you feel comfortable/good when you wear it? what accentuates your appearance to the way you like it?? (assuming that's feminine)


perhaps you don't want to appear feminine, that's ok just get clothes that don't accentuate your male features..

its easy.. as becky says, be yourself or what's the point?

[Krisi]

I don't understand why you are asking what you are asking. All you have to do is leave your home and observe "real" women going about their everyday tasks. "Real" women dress for what they will be doing. If they work in a high end office or high end retail store they might be all glamored up, but other women may be working in a grocery store, a factory, delivering the mail, etc. and they will be dressed for those activities. Go to the local mall and observe the women customers. You will find very few "all dolled up", especially ones your age.

Having said that, as a genetic male wanting to live and pass as a female, you will need to worry about boobs, hips, hair and enough makeup to cover any beard shadow. Moderate makeup goes a long way towards the illusion. It's not going to be easy, but what you are doing is not easy.

[Leah Lynn]

Caitlyn Jenner lives in a world that most of us will never be a part of. As all have said, just observe real life and dress accordingly. Okay, the People of Walmart vids will also show what not to wear. Blend in. If you feel comfortable in jeans, top and sneakers, then wear them. If you prefer a dress or skirt, fine, If appropriate for the situation. I know several cis-women that do not own a dress or a skirt. They still function in society.

Just be comfortable for the situation.

Leah

[Jorja]

I have always been told to live within your means. You are not Caitlyn Jenner. I assume you do not have millions to spend like she does. Do what you can with what you have and the rest will take care of itself.

[Badtranny]

You are in for a world of hurt.

Your post displays a profound misunderstanding of transgenderism/transexualism.

My name change was 7/12/2012 and I have yet to wear a slinky dress anywhere. Generally the only heels I wear are the heels on my cowboy boots.

You have somehow conflated being transsexual with being Caitlyn Jenner and frankly my dear, that's so far off the mark that I'm afraid you're in for a loooooong first year.

[PaulaQ]

A lot of us don't wear slinky dresses, makeup, and heels. There are plenty of women who never wear makeup, almost never wear any dress, much less a slinky one, and may not even own a pair of heels. Look, if you are a professional woman here in Dallas, you'll need to look pretty professional, which usually translates into a business dress or pant suit, at least a splash of makeup, and depending on your job, possibly heels. Dallas is really conservative though. If where you live isn't like that, or your job or industry aren't like that - i.e. you don't wear a men's suit to work now - you probably won't need that stuff.

I do tend to always wear makeup and a dress, but that's because I enjoy dressing like that, not because I think that's what women are supposed to do. (No heels though - flats.) I own 3-4 formal / cocktail dresses - I've used all of them. But I also have had events to attend that required them. If you don't, owning stuff like that is pretty dumb, honestly. (I also enjoy events like that, which drives my boyfriend nuts, because he'd rather be in jeans and boots, rather than a suit.)

There used to be gatekeepers to the transition process some of whom looked for hyper-feminine behavior before they'd let you pass to the next step. They don't exist anymore. There probably are some trans women out there who might tell you that if you don't dress in a highly feminine manner, you are doing it wrong. But you don't have any reason to listen to them. There is no one "right" way to be a woman - just whatever is right for you. Define yourself.

[Frances]

I wear jeans, t-shirts and flats all the time. I rarely put on any make-up. Caitlyn changed gender. I changed sex.

Jenner went from super masculine to stereotypical femine. One could feasably go from feminine male to butch tomboy. Any combination is possible. Any expression is possible too. It's all about being who you are and alleviating gender-related anxiety, not adding some.

Question for OP: Which surgery?

[prene]

I do not wear slinky dresses either.
I might if I had a sz 2,4 or 6 figure and was 21 years old. But I just want to be comfortable.
I do like a little makeup, jeans or jean skirt and just a nice t.
I do like the feeling of breasts so I wear attached forms but not to big and
I am not good on heels so 3" boots are my max otherwise just some ballet flats.

[Michelle789]

Jessica,

You are on this journey to be your authentic self. That is the only thing that matters. It doesn't matter what you look like, or how you choose to dress. You can be butch, tomboy, feminine, ultra feminine, whatever you feel is best for you. Personally, I love wearing dresses, stockings, and makeup, and long hair. I wear flats & boots, and not heels. I choose to dress the way I do because that is a reflection of how I feel on the inside. It is not some kind of uniform or dress code on how women should dress. Most women wear whatever suits them best, and if you take a look around you, you'll see that women come in all shapes and sizes, and that women dress from ultra casual to ultra dressy, from ultra butch to ultra feminine. And everything in between, which is the norm. Most women wear casual clothes but are not butch. Many are tomboys and many are feminine casual. Few are ultra feminine.

I've received plenty of compliments on my look. I've also received some insults - mostly from within the trans community and a couple of suggestions from AA to go with shorter hair. My second night out dressed as a woman, I was at a TG support group, and this one girl asked me if I was going to wear "normal" clothes to the meeting next time. All because she felt offended or maybe jealous that I was wearing a skirt and not pants. Maybe she felt my way of dressing was going against her femininst agenda. Maybe she was jealous of me. Maybe she just wanted to power trip. Maybe she felt that TSes should dress casually and CDers should dress ultra feminine. She also mis-gendered me and refered to me as that "tech guy" and later that night admitted she wanted to be 6 foot tall like me - she is 5 ft 9 inches. I've had a number of other people, mostly trans or in one case a trans ally, insult my clothes. I felt so hurt by these comments, coupled with this idiotic idea that comes from within the trans community, that dressing ultra feminine is for crossdressers and not for transsexuals.

This is so idiotic and bizarre. I felt so hurt that I never asked anyone except my therapist for any advice on fashion or makeup. Actually I never truly asked my therapist for advice. I just wore different outfits to my therapist's office and waited for her reaction. She loved every single one of them. I pretty much learned everything completely on my own, and I mentally put up a wall asking people not to help me. I kinda regret it, because part of me wishes I could sometimes get fashion advice from someone, or have someone to go with me for my first eyebrow waxing. I am crying as I write this now. I so wish I could have someone to help me out sometimes. I know I made good choices on my own and get complimented for it but, God, sometimes I just wish I could have some help sometimes. I'm so scared that any one who tries to help me is going to make me change my look to something more casual and Walmart appropriate, rather than enhancing and developing my style. I have not sought out any help because of these insults from within our own community.

I just want to tell you Jessica there is absolutely no right or wrong way to dress. Whatever makes you feel happy is what you should do. If you transition, please do it because you identify as a woman, and please wear whatever clothes feel best on you. Please choose a style of clothing that you're content with and not what anyone else is happy with. And please don't be scared to ask for help. I sometimes wish I could get help. If someone wants to change you then don't take their help. Just find someone who wants to work with you and not against you. Since you prefer casual comfy clothes, if you need help, feel free to have someone help you to find good casual clothes. Or maybe you can do it on your own. Whatever you feel is best. Just please don't be afraid to ask for help. And don't let anyone talk you into being or dressing as someone you're not.

I wish I could give you a big hug over the internet. From L.A. to Baltimore. Please feel free to send me a PM if you need to talk, ok

[Jessica EnFemme]

Thanks for all your kind replies!

I'm sorry but I don't think I explained myself well. I agree with you all, I don't see womanhood as being about glamour at all! I was just reflecting on my first therapist appointment (he'll be the one recommending me for surgery) when he said I need to "present myself as a woman for a year" and I was thinking about all the unisex fashions and what I was comfortable in day-to-day, and will he say I wasn't "womanly" enough during that year (because of his stereotypes)?

Or am I just overthinking this and worrying too much. I know, I should've asked him for clarification, but I just need him to approve it in the end and don't want to mess up by being too "myself" when they're expecting to see glamour or something.

It's my first time with this, obviously! Thanks for your kind words. I'm kind of a mess just starting down the path right now, but I'll get through it.

[Michelle789]

Jessica,

It has been said on this forum before, and I will say it again. All you need to do to present as a woman is to have a reasonably female presentation. Basically this means a few things.

1. Shave your beard, have a reasonably female hairstyle, and wear one article of feminine clothing. A short bob hairstyle is totally okay, long or shoulder length hair is not necessary. A casual female top with jeans is totally okay. Even androgynous clothing is okay. Some may argue that there is an overlap between some casual female clothes and unisex/androgynous clothing. Hint: Many women go with short hair and uber casual / androgynous / unisex style clothing and are still women.

2. Since you're presenting as a woman, use the women's bathroom. Now honestly this may be an issues in many states and I honestly can't offer advice for a transwoman who lives in an unaccepting state and can't use the women's room out of fear of getting arrested. You may want to ask your therapist on restroom issues. Here in California, the law is you use the restroom according to your presentation, so it's easy, use the women's room. If you're uncomfortable and a unisex bathroom is available you can feel free to use that. Also you can start locating unisex restrooms in your area. Many Starbucks, as well as fast food and non fast food restaurants, have Unisex bathrooms. Ok, at least here in SoCal. I don't know about Maryland. Just please don't hold going to the restroom. Holding it can seriously damage your health. I would best talk with your therapist or others in your local TG community on how to handle the restroom.

3. Go by a female name. Introduce yourself as Jessica everywhere you go, start socializing with women. Maybe you'll want to join a women's group at some point, although that is not absolutely necessary. But socializing with women as a woman is a great way to get experience.

4. Do everything as a woman, including social, errands, doctors, mechanic. Introduce yourself as Jessica. Tell them you're a woman, although you may need to explain to a doctor you're TG. I may be biased because in California, most places are TG accepting. Without a court order to legally change my name or gender, I was able to change my name and gender in many places. So many places have me on record as Michelle and Female, even though my name & gender are still legally male.

-Doctors (name & gender). This includes my dentist, primary care physician at the LGBT center, chiropractor, homeopathic doctor, and an urgent care center.
-AAA (gender only)
-Mechanic (name only - they don't use gender)
-Jiffy Lube (name only - they don't use gender)
-Club cards for Panera Bread, CVS, Walgreens, supermarkets (not credit cards, but club cards) - all under Michelle and Female
-AA phone lists (no legal issues involved, I am seen as Michelle and female. My name is Michelle on the phone lists. In my AA home group that elects secretaries by gender, I will never be elected a secretary for the Aug-Jan term which is for male, and I am eligible for the Feb-Jul term which is for females). I can attend women's groups as Michelle, and currently sponsor a woman.
-Sprint mobile phone (name - they don't use gender)
-Online accounts, even if they are paid with a credit card with my male name on it. This includes both free and paid ones. Email, Facebook, Amazon Prime, online MAC account.
-I will soon be getting a new driver's license with my female photo and gender marker changed to female. In California you can legally do this without a court order, although I still need to keep my birth name. My birth name is androgynous sounding so few people will bat an eye when they see my driver's license. I do plan on changing my name & gender through court order although it will probably be another 6 months to a year before I do that.

Now there are places where I still have to use my birth name & gender until I legally change it. This includes bank accounts, booking airline tickets (yeah the TSA is super strict), jury duty, my paycheck.

I don't know what the state laws are in Maryland or how doctors or other businesses operate out there, so every place you change your name/gender in without legally changing it you'll have to ask. They may insist you user your legal name & gender until you change it, so you need to check every time. At least here in L.A. most places let me use my preferred name & gender even though it doesn't match my legal name & gender.


But yeah glamour, glitz, and super feminine dress & appearance is absolutely not necessary. It's an option if you feel that is who you truly are, but it is not at all required. Most women don't dress that way. Casual is quite the norm. And if you feel like wearing a nice dress or doing makeup once in a while, don't let your age or physical features stop you from doing that either. There is no rule you need to have a feminine, thin, young body to glam it up. An older, overweight, masculine woman has every right to glam it up if she wants to. And it is totally possible to glam it up and still look age-appropriate. So don't limit yourself. Be free, be yourself, and be happy

I guess I'm saying that it's A OK to dress casual or androgynous. But if you deep down inside want to glam it up sometimes, don't let your circumstances stop you from doing so. Do whatever feels right to you.

They are not at all expecting to see glamour or ultra-femininity. If he does, than he is an outdated therapist and you should leave him and find another one. Any decent therapist will accept you as you are. Trust me, I am on the other end of the spectrum and worried about being told that I must wear jeans, sneakers, and casual top and that I would be rejected for wearing skirts, dresses, and makeup. My therapist, being the wonderful therapist that she is, will accept you regardless of how you present.

[mechamoose]

How did you girls get through that first year before surgery?

I'm not even going to attempt to answer some of your questions, as are worlds are so alien (while being so linked)

BE YOURSELF!!!

I'm NEVER going to "pass", but I still confuse clerks and mundanes. Eye-liner, pretty nails, nice clothes, built like a truck, beard.

Your confidence in yourself, regardless of how you look, makes it easier for the shy ones that follow after us.

"How DARE you assume I am male!!"

- MM

[Jessica EnFemme]

Question for OP: Which surgery?

Bottom. They're making me wait a year. I can understand making a 20 year old live out a year enfemme to be sure about something so irreversible, but I'm almost 50 and not having kids anytime soon. But okay, I can wait.

I pretty much learned everything completely on my own, and I mentally put up a wall asking people not to help me. I kinda regret it, because part of me wishes I could sometimes get fashion advice from someone, or have someone to go with me for my first eyebrow waxing. I am crying as I write this now. I so wish I could have someone to help me out sometimes. I know I made good choices on my own and get complimented for it but, God, sometimes I just wish I could have some help sometimes. I'm so scared that any one who tries to help me is going to make me change my look to something more casual and Walmart appropriate, rather than enhancing and developing my style. I have not sought out any help because of these insults from within our own community.

Thank you so much Michelle, that really touched me. I'm sad people within our own community can be so mean. I'll get ready for it, sounds like High School bullying all over again. I lived through it and you and I can again.

Regarding clothes, I'm a simple blouse-and-slacks, sweater-top-and-skirt gal, nothing glamorous, just trying to eke out my little life in my little house. Why can't I just be normal like everyone else? That's all I want.

I don't know what the state laws are in Maryland or how doctors or other businesses operate out there, so every place you change your name/gender in without legally changing it you'll have to ask. They may insist you user your legal name & gender until you change it, so you need to check every time. At least here in L.A. most places let me use my preferred name & gender even though it doesn't match my legal name & gender.

I posted my last response before seeing your latest, but thanks again Michelle, that is great information for someone like me just starting.

I do now identify as female for everything like you mentioned (other than government things because I'm not legal yet) and it is really empowering. I'm still learning these things as I go along. Thanks again for your great tips.

[arbon]

Bottom. They're making me wait a year. I can understand making a 20 year old live out a year enfemme to be sure about something so irreversible, but I'm almost 50 and not having kids anytime soon. But okay, I can wait.

A year is not very long, and if your serious you'll be having lots to deal with during that year. The more years you have invested into the male life....there is a lot of adjustment on the inside and settling into the new life. Surgery is a big deal, it's not the transition though, just one piece.

[Brooklyn]

Wait, aren't you THRILLED about the Real Life Experience? That's the part when you finally get to be yourself, remember? It's certainly not a hassle that you go through in order to have SRS/GRS. Do you have major dysphoria over the stuff down there? Because typically, trans-women wait until everything else is nearly complete before having that done; like icing on the cake. Like others said, it is MAJOR surgery, not always perfect, irreversible, and it probably won't change your life as much as other parts of your transition. As far as clothes go, shop on the women's side of the store and you should be fine.

Why can't I just be normal like everyone else? That's all I want.

If you're transsexual, you're definitely not normal, so enjoy being different.

[Michelle789]

I'll get ready for it, sounds like High School bullying all over again. I lived through it and you and I can again.

Sadly it's true. But don't let them get to you. Easier said than done, I have had so many days ruined over this crap and I am learning to get over it just now. Yeah it doesn't matter where on the spectrum we are, we're all prone to getting bullied.

Why can't I just be normal like everyone else? That's all I want.

Haha. There's no such thing as normal. We're all weird in our own way. You are no less normal for wanting to dress casual/androgynous than I am for dressing ultra feminine. Actually I believe that there are plenty of women that rarely or never wear dresses/skirts/makeup. Even the ones who do often only dress that way for certain occasions. Very very few women dress ultra feminine most of the time.

Enjoy your unique life and embrace your individuality.

[Jorja]

Why can't I just be normal like everyone else? That's all I want.

Believe it or not, Jessica. you are normal.

[jeri1973]

While I enjoy wearing skirts, heels, and overly feminine tops, I must also say that I love t-shirts, jeans/shorts, flip flops and more. My favorite here lately has been nylon running shorts and t-shirts. No wonder the girls wear them so often because they are soooooo comfy. It is very casual and I like it.

Yes, as I continue to move forward in my transition there will be days that I will dress all out but most days I will just be myself and wear what is comfortable. My therapist shared with me the other day that many ladies go overboard when they begin transition and RLE that it actually creates more issues which we do not need. She suggested that I dress similar to what most ladies in my area are wearing and concentrate on blending instead of shouting "Hey look at me, I am MTF Transsexual".

So, be yourself and wear what you want to wear and enjoy each moment of the day.

[Cheyenne Skye]

I don't have anything pertinent to add about clothing choices. I just wanted to say that I too live in the Baltimore area. If you have other questions relevant to the area, feel free to PM me.