Continuum of Crossdressing?

[Stephanie]

When I came out to my wife last year, one of the first books she read was Helen Boyd's "My Husband Betty," which I had read a few months earlier. One of the more catching and controversial (at least for us) assertions that she wrote about in her book was the concept that sometimes people can potentially "progress" from merely wanting to be a casual crossdresser all the way to taking hormones and seeking SRS. When I first started getting interested in crossdressing a few years ago and upon resuming it this past year, I had never assumed that there was any kind of "potential" for going from being an occasional crossdresser to wanting to permanently alter my physical appearance. The only books that I had available to read when I first started crossdressing were "Crossdressing With Dignity" and "My Husband Wears My Clothes," and from those books, I came to believe that you were either TG or TS or something in between but whatever you were was unlikely to change much, if any, in terms of how much you crossdress or pursue permanent physical changes (if any). "My Husband Betty" threw that concept into question for myself and I feel that it has caused my wife a lot of concern and it probably has made it a lot harder for her to feel comfortable/secure with my crossdressing because there does not seem to be any real way (other than with the passage of time) to ever fully assure her that I do not and will not ever develop the desire to seek SRS or any other permanent physical alterations. If there is a "potential" for me to "move along the continuum" as Helen Boyd, then how can I ever be sure, MYSELF? I have thought long and hard about this subject and I can't ever see myself desiring SRS now or ever. Although I like crossdressing (and probably would do it more if I could), I feel comfortable with how I am physically and enjoy crossdressing primarily because I enjoy the rebelliousness/naughtiness of wearing clothing intended for women and presenting myself as a woman. What does everybody else think about the "contiuum" concept proposed by Helen Boyd and does anybody have any personal examples that support/refute her ideas?

[Julia Cross]

Hi Stephanie,

I have had the same thoughts many times, especially since my last wife didn't believe me when I said I had no desire to go durther than just dressing for me. Her doubts caused me to doubt myself. But after several years of pondering this myself, I firmly believe that there are those who will enevitibally go that route given the opportunity and those who will not. I believe that some of us are "programmed" and because of external forces have so deeply buried our true selves that we ar not aware of our true desires/needs until much later in life when time and experience has opened the door. And others, like myself, have different programming, let's say a more subtle version, where the desire to be more isn't there or isn't strong enough to wish to complicate one's life to that degree.

I have stated in other posts that I believe the desire and urge to be more feminine is something we are born with, just like homosexuality is something one is born with. How far we will take our dressing, is part of this.

There's my two cents worth.

Julia

[melissacd]

Stephanie,

I do not believe that it is possible to refute Helen Boyd's ideas. The fact of the matter is that it is an infinite universe of infinite possibility. Cross dressing ranges from zero (don't do it at all) to infinity (SRS) and beyond (transexual supermodel). So yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus - er - I mean the answer is yes it is possible to start small (panty fetish) and move on to big (double D's surgically implanted and a chop job in the underground parking lot).

So we now go from the realm of the possible to the kingdom of the probable. For example, is it possible that you will die in a plane crash - the answer is yes. Is it probable that you will die in a plane crash - statistically the answer is probably not.

If we extend that thinking to cross dressing, I am willing to bet that the majority of dressers may ponder from time to time what it would be like to be a woman, however, I am pretty certain that most of them are quite happy to be males. There is a difference between fantasizing about things and truelly wanting to do something. Fantasies are fun, reality is brutally honest. Fantasies are okay and healthy, reality requires careful consideration.

If you look deep within yourself, if you reflect carefully on who you are, you already know the answer to your question. Now based on what you have said here I cannot tell you that answer. Based on what you have said here I can see that you are like many of us in that you like feminine things and there is nothing wrong with that. Liking feminine things does not mean that you will become a woman, it just means that you appreciate feminine things and that is a wonderful thing.

Do some deep soul searching, consult with a qualified therapist, have open communication with your wife and you will get to the bottom of things. Read up as much as you can on the experiences of others, especially those who have transitioned and you will gain a better understanding and appreciation of what you really want.

You are asking the question because you are unsure and that is good. Now you can go and answer the question - do you appreciate feminine things (which is the right of all males) - do you enjoy that appreciation as a male, as a cross dresser, as a full time cross dresser, as a partially transitioned transexual, as a fully transitioned transexual. Yes there is a continuum, yes you are somewhere on it, yes it is possible to change our minds as to where we are, but I feel that for most of us that change is not as extreme as a full SRS. In fact I feel that for most of us it is not full time dressing either. The law of averages suggests that for most of us it will be somewhere in the middle of the bell curve which is a place that most accepting significant others can accept.

I hope this helps. I wish you and your spouse all of the best and I hope that when you find your place on the continuum it matches what your spouse wants too.

Huggs
Melissa

[GypsyKaren]

Hi Stephanie

It sounds to me like you've got a pretty good handle on it all now, so I really wouldn't worry about it. You already know who and what you are and seem to accept it, that's the key to success as far as I'm concerned. I'm sure there are some who do progress further along, but I think that's a part of a natural progression that's already been programmed.

I've read the book, and I used to be a member of Helen's community, so I've gotten to know her a bit. First of all, she's a real sweetheart who really cares, and I have no bad things to say about her. I do believe, however, that she does tend to over anylize things a bit, and makes things a bit more complicated than they need to be. I told her before I left that "sometimes a ham sandwich is just that, a ham sandwich, so put some mustard on it and enjoy". They tend to pick everything apart there and tell you what you really mean and feel, they ignore the obvious. You know yourself better than anyone else, let your wife know that, and tell her not to worry.

Karen

[Julia Cross]

Melissa, you should be a professor. Or a physcologist. Or both!

Julia

[melissacd]

Julia,

Thanks. You are too kind.

Huggs
Melissa

[Ellisia_Lynch]

This is an excellent thread - I read Helen's book a couple of years ago and that chapter really bothered me. It just doesn't always work like that, and certainly not for me. Helen has come in for some critisism over that part of the book, but seems to stand by her assertion that it DOES happen and any partner with a crossdresser should know what might happen in the future.

I kind of get her point, but I don't think it is that helpful for the majority of us. Does my wife need to know that I might run off with a 21 year old pole dancer - no. Or is it helpful for me to know that she might run off with a guy that looks like Ryan Phillippe in a few years time - no. The chances are that it won't happen, but it MIGHT, so should we ruin the present by concerning us with the infinite possibilities - of course not.

For all the good Helen has done, I am sure she has done some harm too, and that is precisely why I did not give the book to my wife. There is much in the book (and on Helen's website) that would have helped her, but Helen opens up a whole can of worms that whilst relevant to her situation, just isn't to the majority of us and not only hinders our progress but can be quite destructive already fragile relationships.

[Julia Cross]

Ellisia, you are so correct, for those reasons I would keep the book away as well. There is no need to concern ourselves with truly hypothetical situations based on a person's opinion. There is no proof that CDing is a progressive behaviour leading to such extreme outcomes.

By the way, I love what you are wearing in your avatar! Great style!

Julia

[Fiona K]

Ellisia, you are so correct, for those reasons I would keep the book away as well. There is no need to concern ourselves with truly hypothetical situations based on a person's opinion. There is no proof that CDing is a progressive behaviour leading to such extreme outcomes.

Julia

Julia,
I don't think Helen was suggesting that CDs/ TVs would always head down a slippery slope to full SRS transition, indeed she doesn't assert that even for TSs SRS is inevitable.

What she does challenge are the slightly cosy assertions from some CD/TV groups that it NEVER happens and that it will always be a concern for the partners of CD/TVs. Hiding the possibility, no matter how remote, is dishonest. It is for this reason that you need to read the book first and tell your partner in advance that some of the content is mre difficult to take than others.

I know several girls who have gone the full time and then on to SRS route. Not common, doesn't happen to veryone but it does happen.

Other assertions that are refuted daily on this and other forums are:
- Dressing never has anything to do with dressing
- CD/TVs are never gay

It is hard for our partners, I know from painful experience
Fiona

[Julia Cross]

Fiona,

I didn't meant to imply that it never happens, sure it does. So does cheating on spouses with another woman and amongst CD's with other CD's or men. All things are possible, but even those are not a given.

You are correct, I need to read the book, and plan to. I made an assumption on things I have read and opinions I have heard.

julia

[Ellisia_Lynch]

I guess the problem I have is that Helen set out to help people, but in catering to the minority she played right into the hands of our partners insecurities, which is a fundamental hurdle to acceptance.

I didn't get the impression that she was pointing out that it is a concern that partners have (after all that would be fairly redundant as it's pretty much the 1st conversation you have with a partner when you come out), but more of a warning. That was where I feel she lost her objectivity.

It's so frustrating as up until I reached that chapter, I couldn't wait to give a copy to my wife.

[unclejoann]

This has been very helpful to me, I haven't read the book but wondered if it would be appropriate for my wife. Guess not. I have also seen the book "Lazy Crossdresser," would that be a better choice for the wife. It seems less threatening by the title.

[Ellisia_Lynch]

I don't think "Lazy Crossdresser" would help her emotionally necessarily, but it is a nice lighthearted view of crossdressing, which is certainly how I view it would like my wife to feel the same.

[Butterfly Bill]

I have been dressing up since I was 13 and doing it in public since I was 47 and I have never had any desire to undergo SRS. (Why would I want to have to stand in the long line in front of the ladies' room?). So I am one counter-example.

The author of the Crossdressing with Dignity book probably wouldn't approve of my practices.

[TGMarla]

Somewhere inside, you really already know. I wrestled with this question, as many of us have, for a very long time. Now I don't wrestle with it at all. I don't want to go through all that just to be happy with myself. I'm already pretty happy with myself as it is. Why bother with all that. Just to wear feminine clothing? I already do that now. I don't need to turn myself into a physical replica of a female to do that, nor to feel feminine. I can do that as well just the way I am. To some it is a slippery slope, to others, just a pleasant diversion. But for those who truly wrestle with it, perhaps it is because they have not found the place in their lives and minds where they are comfortable and confident with themselves. I know that for me, once I realized that I am fine where I am, that I am as good as the next person just being me, I began to be at peace with myself, my crossdressing, and the whole "continuum". It may be a sliding scale, but we really don't need to slide all over it. We can be its master, rather than have it master us.

An afterthought: There are many post-ops who are very happy with the permanent change they have made, but there are also many who continue to be unhappy. This change did little or nothing to bring them the peace of mind they so desperately desire. This comes from within, not without. Look inside of yourself, and the answers are to be found only there.

[Melanie R]

I have been dressing up since I was 13 and doing it in public since I was 47 and I have never had any desire to undergo SRS. (Why would I want to have to stand in the long line in front of the ladies' room?). So I am one counter-example.

The author of the Crossdressing with Dignity book probably wouldn't approve of my practices.

Approve of what practices? Are you talking about dressing as a woman with a beard? If you can express your femininity while holding on to your external masculinity, facial hair, go for it.

Melanie Rudd - I type the words Dr. Peggy speaks

[Kimberley]

I am a firm believer that the true TS knows it from childhood and in the end has no choice but to follow that path. Whether they transition to SRS is another story; many do not out of financial constraints among others.

In any event this can progress from CDing to dressing most of the time but the true TS cannot accept even a partial life in both genders. It is all one way 24/7 and a complete renunciation of their biological gender.

That is my take on things from my reading.

[arianacd]

I have been dressing since about six or 7 , I am know 41 and the only desire I have had is to keep on dressing and try to pass more as a woman, with lotions and other stuff so I won't look so rugged. As to be with a man while dressed as woman has crossed my mind but I think I will never have the nerve to go ahead with that. Plus I have a very understanding wife that pleasures me that way and I could not bear hurting her by betraying her with a nother. that's my thoughts

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

I'm also a member of Helen's forum (and have gotten to know her personally) and as Gypsy Karen said, she's someone who really cares.

Like the chapter on sexuality, it's easy to overlook her disclaimer that not everyone "progresses" and it's just sort of a issue inherent with "support" books that they focus on that which needs supporting.

The chapter was also undoubtedly colored by both Helen and Betty's growing realization that Betty was more than "just a CD" although at this point she's got no plans to transition. And Richard Docter in his "Transvestites and Transsexuals" documented cases where it appears to have happened -- although he cautioned it was a small number of the overall number of crossdressers. Part of the difficulty is that often when folks reach this point they retroactively recall having always thought they were transsexual. (Probably in part because everyone knows the story that you need to tell to get GRS.) Which makes it tough to distinguish them from folks who were transsexual from an early age, but who were in denial.

Incidentally, for her new book, Helen has been seeking stats (with some actual rigor) on the percentage of CDs who become TSs or TGs. She's yet to find any, so I'm sure she'd appreciate it if anyone has run across them.

Stephanie, if you've given it a lot of thought, then you're probably not likely to move a lot along the spectrum. Docter does talk about the changes some folks go through (mainly caused by joining a group such as this, or going out in public which often causes your feminine persona to become more rounded) but for the vast majority serious body mods is a line they're not interested in crossing. The problem is that it's obviously hard for your wife to see inside your head, so it really is a matter of trust.

[Stephanie]

The discussion generated by this topic has been very illuminating and I appreciate everybody's responses. In fairness to Helen, I want to say that I am not on any "campaign" to refute her ideas and I appreciate and applaud her efforts on behalf of the TG community but I feel that certain parts of her tome, "My Husband Betty," may make gaining acceptance from our spouses more difficult than it might otherwise be by focusing on troubling possibilities and fueling fears (that many partners initially have) that, although not necessarily farfetched, seem to be more the exception rather than the rule (this also goes for her discussion of sexuality). I am of the opinion that most people tend to be somewhere along the spectrum and that their position is more or less "fixed" and that any "change" in their position is really more of a "change" in their own personal level of self-awareness and/or acceptance of themselves and becoming more honest and open with others about who they really are. Good discussion!

[Liberty]

A couple of years ago a gave my ex a book that I read and thought was very helpfull called "My Husband Wears My Clothes", it's been a long time and she never gave it back to me, so now as I'm further educated, it would be interesting to review that book again, I did feel really good at it's approach and felt it explained me well.
~Liberty

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

I forgot to mention that Helen recommends that SOs read the first four chapters of the book and then set it aside for awhile -- precisely because the next two "scary" chapters deal with things that may not be an issue for a particular relationship. (And the remaining two chapters deal with the TG scene and TG politics that may be less interesting.)

[Melanie R]

A couple of years ago a gave my ex a book that I read and thought was very helpfull called "My Husband Wears My Clothes", it's been a long time and she never gave it back to me, so now as I'm further educated, it would be interesting to review that book again, I did feel really good at it's approach and felt it explained me well.
~Liberty

In April we are coming out with the third edition of My Husband Wears My Clothers, THE FIRST BOOK ON CROSSDRESSING WRITTEN BY A WIFE. Helen's book is excellent but was not the first written by a wife. In Husband the gender continuum is discussed relating to the continuum between masculinity and femininity. This is what is important! There are many crossdressers who later in life come to the realization that they are transsexual and will transition. Many others will not transition but will live all or a major portion of their lives as women. The important thing to know is that having SRS does not make one a woman. SRS will put Female on ID documents but will not make one a woman. SRS brings validity to some who want for themselves and society to be seen and accepted as women. We also have known many who have had SRS who have told us that if they had acceptance and understanding they would not have gone the SRS route. In a panel discussion last month with 43 marriage and family therapists at their annual conference, Peggy and I along with three post op TS's participated in telling our stories and the dynamics of being transgendered. Two of the three post op TS's said they would not have had SRS if they would have found understanding and acceptance. We hear this repeated so frequently!

The bottom line is that we nor anyone can say to a wife that your husband will always remain a CD and will not go the route of TS and transitioning. A true TS is born TS and does not choose to go the transitioning route based on just wanting validity of his/her femininity or masculinity.

Hugs,

Melanie

[gennee]

I believe helen has a point but I have no intentions of taking hormones or SRS. I'm quite content the way I am. You have a solid idea about who you are. I'm sure that in time your wife will realize that you are not going to transition.

Gennee

[Holly]

Stephanie, thanks for starting this thread. I think all of us in the TG community have contemplated this issue at one time or another. I find the more recent comments in this thread ring true, at least for me. I used to think of transitioning more before I came to an acceptance of myself and others who I love have come to accept me. More than physical, gender is determined more in the mind than it is by genetics. If we can wrap our heads around that, even though as a MtF and the "extra plumbing" we have to deal with, it becomes so much easier to be content with and enjoy the things that are feminine that we treasure so much.