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Thread: So Unfair

  1. #26
    Member LeslieSD's Avatar
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    I can feel what the OP said. Everyday when I come to work and see the girls in the building come and go in nice dresses, I dreaded and hope I could do just that.
    Leslie's Advanture into the Unknown - http://lesliesd.weebly.com/

  2. #27
    Another fine dress AngelaYVR's Avatar
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    Jillian, it may have been a light hearted OP but the moment you brought the law and rights into it, it no longer was. If it is so important to dress at work, either work from home, change jobs, start your own company, work to have your rights recognized, etc. We get this old chestnut rolling around all the time. You can buy very nice men's clothing in a huge assortment of styles these days. Anybody who says otherwise has been too lazy to look. I'm also willing to bet you never approached your boss and asked about dress code variances.

    Things don't change by themselves. This isn't meant to be mean, I just find these attitudes exasperating.

  3. #28
    Lady By Choice Leslie Langford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katey888 View Post
    No. ...You ARE free to wear what you want, when you want - you just have to be prepared for the exposure and any reactions that go with that... like others do...
    Fair enough in principle, Katey, but the point that you fail to acknowledge here is that this issue goes beyond simply asserting one's sartorial choices and then having the cojones to face any potential negative reactions that may be an outcome of this.

    There can actually be severe consequences for some for flaunting convention - especially insofar as the LBGT community is concerned - that go far beyond mere ridicule. Perhaps the U.K. in general embodies a more tolerant society in that respect, but this is still not the norm in the U.S. where Jillian resides. LGBT "rights" are still a patchwork there as they are legislated on a state-by-state basis rather than on the federal level, with 31 of the 50 states offering virtually no specific protection for members of our community.

    So, while Jillian may be free to openly wear her most exquisitely feminine outfit while still otherwise presenting as a male (if she so chooses) and even if she succeeds in staring down her detractors in the process, she may still face the prospect of getting her @ss (@rse ) fired from her job the next day (or evicted from her domicile if she is renting) if word of this gets back there and someone in a position of power takes exception to her lifestyle. And legally speaking, there would be nothing that she could do to prevent this from happening as things stand today in the "land of the free, home of the brave", depending on where where she lives.

    Fellow Brit John Oliver, who hosts a satirical "news" show on the HBO network in the US, spoke convincingly to this egregious travesty of justice in a recent broadcast which was also posted to youtube:

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d667Bb_iYA

  4. #29
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    I'll give you an Amen Jillian!

    Current social convention dictates that men be boring and women are attractive. Funny thing is, in the animal world, the male of species tends to be attractive so as to attract the females. I guess evolution went just a hair too far for cross dressers;-)

  5. #30
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    I'll give you another Amen Jillian! Honestly, if you're CD, and depending on your environment (work, friends, image) there's a REALLY good chance that you'll at the very least lose a lot of peer respect, and likely a lot more than that

  6. #31
    New Member Annlikia's Avatar
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    Male to Female Crossdressing is nothing new and has been around since the dawn of time. it is getting more and more popular and is here to stay.

  7. #32
    AKA Lexi sometimes_miss's Avatar
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    As much as I hate reading another 'girls get to wear this so why can't I' thread, I let it slide because so many GG's whine about the same problems endlessly pretty much all the time. So if you like to emulate women, discussing the same problems without ever coming to a conclusion over and over and over and over and over is one of the ways to do it. Now, why did revlon go and stop making melon orange lipstick #4432? Don't they know it's the only one i can wear? Now I have to go shopping again to find a new one to match my dress of that shade, because nothing else really looks right with it, and after I found shoes and a bag to match I'm certainly not going to just dump all that to goodwill just because they declared that shade to be out of style! And did you see Matilde! She certainly needs to touch up those roots! She lets it go too long every month, I swear, everybody in town knows that she's not a real blond by this point. At least she could wear a hat or something. and so on, and so on, and so on, and so on......................

    Oh yeah. Amen.
    Some causes of crossdressing you've probably never even considered: My TG biography at:http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...=1#post1490560
    There's an addendum at post # 82 on that thread, too. It's about a ten minute read.
    Why don't we understand our desire to dress, behave and feel like a girl? Because from childhood, boys are told that the worst possible thing we can be, is a sissy. This feeling is so ingrained into our psyche, that we will suppress any thoughts that connect us to being or wanting to be feminine, even to the point of creating separate personalities to assign those female feelings into.

  8. #33
    Aspiring Member JeanetteX's Avatar
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    Jillian.....just a big, very big Amen!!! Enough said
    Love and hugs Jeanette

  9. #34
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    Hi Jillian,

    I am not going to even go down the "rabbit hole of who gets to wear what" as it never goes well. The cold hard reality of all this is that women took what was stereotypically male fashion back in the day (pants, suit jackets and whatnot) and made it their own . . . these are not men's clothes, these are women's clothing irrespective of whether they are jeans and a t-shirt or dress pants and a blazer. Convention has dictated that men tend to dress a bit drab but we can think the "Leave to Beaver neo-conservative fashion sense of drab suits and hats" for that one. However, I have seen plenty of guys dressed in bright colours and great suits which some men would never think of wearing.

    However, I get your point about not being able to truly wear what you want and in this case I am assuming (and correct me if I am wrong) you mean wearing women's clothing. Yes, in theory we are all free to wear what we want but there is a price to be paid for such a right. Specifically, if you plan to go out in women's clothing whether you go all out (make-up, wig, forms, etc.) or just a dude in a dress there are going to be haters and the potential for blowback is there. However, if it is something you truly need to do and are prepared to take all that comes with it . . . then alas . . . you do have that right.

    Cheers

    Isha

  10. #35
    0 to trans in 60 seconds! Donnagirl's Avatar
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    Jillian,

    I'm sort of with you... Whilst we can, in theory wear whatever we want, whenever we want, there are varying levels of constraint imposed, either internally or externally that are outside our control... Whereas I could wear my sparkly mini dress to my kids sports presentation night and at least the parents in his team know about me, it would be throughly inappropriate and breach some of the boundaries my wife and I have set. Notwithstanding the embarrassment and future bullying the kids will experience...

    Tomorrow is an LGBTI support day at work, with a 'Wear Purple' theme.... Do I wear a purple tie or my knitted dress and boots. Now everyone at works knows so what's the problem??? Well firstly I have promised HR not to just show up one day but to let then 'pave the way' first. Secondly, I have a meeting with senior police and intelligence tomorrow and I might not be 'representing the agency' to the most acceptable standard.

    So yes Katey is right, there is nothing physically stopping either of us wearing anything we want but there are plenty of intangibles blocking the way! And yes I often watch the girls at work quite envious of what they are wearing.
    Call me Donna, please

  11. #36
    Senior Member Angela Marie's Avatar
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    Jillian:

    I understand your comment and frustration. I love wearing leggings and just bought a nice light blouse. I would love to wear it out but circumstances as they are I cannot. While there is more variety in men's clothes these days it does not come close to what is available to women.

  12. #37
    Silver Member Mollyanne's Avatar
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    Hi Jillian, I CAN FEEL YOUR FRUSTRATION AND ANGER. I too would LOVE to go out wearing whatever I liked but this would not be practical (for me anyhow) because of tunnel thinking people. Yes, women can wear whatever they choose and the male of the species must adhere to specific rules of gender identification (yeah I know, it sucks). Me personally, I prefer to be in a skirt or dress with a stylish pair of heels and feel the hair on the back of my neck with the feel of earrings in my lobes. Or to be more specific, be recognized as the woman that I was supposed to be.

    AMEN, AMEN, AMEN

    Molly
    "To thine own self be true"

  13. #38
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    Jill, I agree with every word you said in your OP, and Amen to all of it. I too like so many others here are envious and appreciative of how attractive women dress and all that is accepted and available to them to wear. Haven't heard from you in quite a while, so glad you are back. Please post some of those beautiful feminine pictures of yourself. If the boys had seen you in fem they would have been slobbering all over themselves. And as nice as your look dressed wouldn't it be so nice to see you go to work every day dressed as your pic shows. You are something we all would like to be, so glad you're back.

  14. #39
    its important mykell's Avatar
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    hi jill,
    here is your amen, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGchlqCjj8A
    as to the wearing what we want, we can, like stated we have inherent risks by doing so, but anytime you want to come down the shore and take some baby steps doing it i would love to share that with you, a wing girl so to say....
    ....Mykell
    i dressed like a girl and i liked it! crossdressing...theirs an app for that

  15. #40
    Bad Influence mechamoose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katey888 View Post
    No.

    Remind me again what prevents you wearing what you want? We have plenty members here who go out wearing what they choose whether full on femulation or just a bit of Moosey swishing (sorry MM.. )

    You ARE free to wear what you want, when you want - you just have to be prepared for the exposure and any reactions that go with that... like others do.
    Moosey swishing

    I will give an Amen to Katey, AND J2J.

    Male clothes are very much a uniform, which is sad. Even the stuff in nice colors is the same shape & cut as the boring stuff. But there is nothing forcing you to wear it. I started by filtering in a female item here and there, and it has spread to more over time.

    <3

    - MM
    - Madame Moose - on my way to Anne
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    "I yam what I yam and tha's all what I yam." -- Popeye the Sailor
    "If I am not for myself, who will be for me? And when I am for myself, what am 'I'? And if not now, when?" - Hillel the Elder

  16. #41
    Aspiring Member ChristinaK's Avatar
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    Jillian, wow, you kicked up some dust, huh?

    I totally agree with you. I need to buy some men's clothes, but haven't just because, like you said, they're the same old thing. Women have a huge variety of things from sleeve styles, to collars, colors, prints, paisley or psychedelic. So many pants, skirts and on and on.

    The choices of men's clothes are also VERY limited based on the location, such as demographics, rural, urban, etc. So, unless we travel a long distance to find that v neck, ribbed knit, reddish pink sweater, our choices are very limited, assuming one lives in a fairly rural area. Mail order, you say? If you're built like me, not so successful with that.

    In addition, men are scrutinized harshly depending on the environment. Yesterday, I drove completely through the deep South. I have blonde, dyed hair down to the middle of my ears. I wore a flowered men's Hawaiian style shirt, jeans and blue tennis shoes.

    EVERY time I went into a convenience store to potty or buy something, people stared. Not just the surreptitious glance by one. They all did it. One lady even looked me up and down and laughed. It was as if I were in drag because I didn't have a buzz cut, beard or goatee and wasn't wearing some stupid t shirt and baggy assed shorts.

    So, depending on your environment, dressing outside the norm can absolutely bring scorn, hate, distrust and isolation.

    We must be careful not to generalize about how we can present regardless of location and be sensitive to those in environments where even metro sexual will get them their asses kicked, or at the least ostracized by their peers, friends and family.

  17. #42
    Member Sandygal's Avatar
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    Jillian....I enjoyed your comment for what it was. Some forget this site is called crossdressers.com, not everybody goes all the way to womanhood. com.

  18. #43
    Style Icon Sara Jessica's Avatar
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    I can certainly empathize with the pangs we feel when in guy mode and surrounded by the glory of the myriad of choices women seem to have when it comes to their wardrobes. Thing is, our collective points of view are colored to feel this way and I can sigh with the best of y'all when faced with these situations.

    But it ends there.

    I guess I'm one of the rare ones here who subscribe to the gender binary in our society except to the fact I was drafted to the wrong team. Men generally have zero interest in the fact their closets aren't full of skirts and dresses, heels & flats, etc. to choose from when getting dressed in the morning. This doesn't mean they are Neanderthals. They simply don't care and are all good being the dudes they are. If a man has any sort of fashion sense, he can make anything he wears look amazing. Take any man who looks stunning in a nice suit, care to picture him in a dress? Think he is lamenting the lack of color in his wardrobe as he gets dressed in the morning? Not a bit. He knows he rocks the suit and that is all good for him. The thought of injecting femininity into his wardrobe repulses him, just as many here seem to be repulsed at the supposed limitations perceived in the male wardrobe.

    It happens that I read an internet article this morning which had what looked like a stock photo showing the face of a really pretty girl as she gazed into the eyes of her hipster-bearded guy and I was struck by the beauty...not of her but of the differences between women and men. Yin and Yang, it all seems to make sense. Perhaps I have taken a long drink of the gender binary Kool-Aid but this is how I see the world. And at the exact same time I also appreciate diversity with respect to gender but this acknowledges we are outliers and that I am one of them. I have zero desire to affect change when it comes to the average man's closet. If he is all good with his choices or perceived lack thereof, who am I to try to change his mind? Especially when I have no desire for him to try and change mine.
    Like a corpse deep in the earth I'm so alone, restless thoughts torment my soul, as fears they lay confirmed, but my life has always been this way - Virginia Astley, "Some Small Hope" (1986)
    Sunlight falls, my wings open wide. There's a beauty here I cannot deny - David Sylvian, "Orpheus" (1987)

  19. #44
    Member Carolina's Avatar
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    Amen Jillian. Too many times, and even more lately, i look around me with envy seeing the beautiful dresses, skirts, blouses, heels and general outfits that the ladies are wearing. I took your post as a comment not intended to raise a big issue but just to share some frustration. I'm not sure about fairness, but i do know i envy the ladies' ability to wear what they wish without being subject to significant criticism. I envy their dresses and outfits wishing it was me the one wearing them (and looking as good as most GG do). I have beautiful outfits myself, but i don't think I can pass nor I have the chance or the guts to try either.
    No matter what, it is a mix of frustration, envy and some feeling of unfairness (probably unreasonable one) but nonetheless you/we should have the right to express your feelings. So Amen!

  20. #45
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    Amen. With my caveat. I love the clothes, but I wouldn't ever want to wear them with out getting properly made up and decked out. Part of the reason the clothes look so good is that women are wearing them!
    Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one.

    Eleanor Roosevelt

  21. #46
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    The "Why do women get to wear cute clothes while men have to wear boring clothes?" thing has been done to death here. In most of the USA, you can wear whatever you want in public, but of course you have to face the possible consequences. Stares, laughter, cat calls, threats and possibly worse. A restaurant might choose to not let you in because of a dress code or fear that you will become a distraction. As Sarah posted, men can wear some colorful clothing if they choose. Years ago I used to have sets of matching suspenders and ties that I wore to work.

    If anyone thinks things will change and men will be wearing miniskirts, high heels and fake boobs out in public anytime soon, I would be willing to bet against it.

    The myth about a pay gap is just that, a myth. Where I worked, men and women were paid equally for the same job classification and years of service. There's nobody out there paying women plumbers or electricians differently than the men. Same for teachers, librarians, bus drivers, you name it.

    PS: I agree with Kim; the cute clothes look good because cute women are wearing them. They aren't going to look quite as cute on a guy built like Hulk Hogan. (They don't look cute on a woman built like Hulk Hogan either.)
    Last edited by Krisi; 08-27-2015 at 08:52 AM.

  22. #47
    Senior Member JaytoJillian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krisi View Post
    The myth about a pay gap is just that, a myth. Where I worked, men and women were paid equally for the same job classification and years of service. There's nobody out there paying women plumbers or electricians differently than the men. Same for teachers, librarians, bus drivers, you name it.
    Hmmmm, the Institute for Women's Policy Research and Stanford University must have it wrong.

    http://www.iwpr.org/initiatives/pay-...discrimination

    https://web.stanford.edu/group/scspi...r_research.pdf
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  23. #48
    Senior Member Christie ann's Avatar
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    You also have my amen to your original post. My favorite times are summer weddings when I am supposed to wear a long sleeve shirt under a coat all with a tie while my wife and daughters wear some beautiful cool flowing thing with sandals no less.

  24. #49
    Aspiring Member grace7777's Avatar
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    From what I see you decided that Being out in drab at a restaurant with friends was a better option than going out on your own fully en femme to another restaurant. I have no problem with the decision you made, but you made that decision. Now you could risk losing the friends, but for a crossdresser, that may be to high of a price.

    For me I see myself being more to the TS side, so I am finding myself willing to make more sacrifices. Outside of work situations I am mostly out fully dressed en femme. There have been sacrifices. I like going out to restaurants and being dressed fully en femme, and largely I go alone. Same with going out to stores. At times I go out with others to cd/tg events or with other tg persons, or people accepting of tg persons. So I am limiting myself, but a decision I have made that I am good with.

    As I said, in work situations I do not go out fully dressed en femme. Another decision I am ok with right now. I am looking for an employment situation where I will be able to be dressed fully en femme. If I should be fortunate enough to find this, I am sure it will not be without sacrifice.

    Many trans women are living 24/7 as a woman, and some have lost jobs, families and friends because of it. My sacrifices do not compare to some of these women and what they have given up.

    A GG also makes sacrifices because they are a woman. One woman I met told me she liked short hair, but she also wanted a boyfriend, and she felt her odds were better with longer hair, so she has been growing it out longer. Her assumption being right or wrong is not the issue. The point is, she is making a sacrifice, because she would rather have a male partner than not have one.

    To sum it up, I respect the decisions of crossdressers to totally stay largely in the closet, and to limit how often, when and where they do it. Also I totally respect and admire trans women who risk everything to live 24/7 as a woman. There are pluses and minuses to each of the above groups decisions. Each of us now has to find what is right for our life.
    Last edited by grace7777; 08-27-2015 at 10:15 AM.

  25. #50
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    Jilian's post made me chuckle. I read it as a light hearted, observational anecdote. Then some ppl made it into a political discussion (does politics need to ruin EVERYTHING?)... Talk about buzz killing the OP. Lighten up. Not saying it isn't an important discussion, just better as ts own thread, instead of raining on somebody's parade.

    Amen, btw.

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