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Thread: Upsetting conversation with my wife tonight

  1. #1
    Aspiring Member Camille15's Avatar
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    Upsetting conversation with my wife tonight

    I had a difficult conversation with my wife tonight. I found myself coming downstairs after she fell asleep to cry a bit and "journal" here. Feel free to read, or not. This is mostly for my own catharsis.

    I shared today with my wife that I underdressed for the first time at work. It's been a very stressful few weeks, and very long since I've had any Camille time, so I thought "what the hell" and tried it. I loved it. And as always, I shared another of life's adventure's with her when I got home. At first she laughed about it, which hurt my feelings. But she explained that she only laughed because she thought it was so inventive of me (she'd never heard of underdressing and didn't know it's a "thing"). She's always been supportive of my dressing, and didn't mean to hurt my feelings. So all was good.

    But tonight as we were laying in bed she shared that my underdressing caused her great concern because it's outside of the "status quo" of my dressing to date. She's concerned about where all of this is going with me doing something in public (i.e. at work). She was concerned about what might come next. Would I want to wear a camisole to work under my t-shirt? A loose shirt so I could conceal a bra? Nylons and garter belts? What if I had bent over and someone saw the underwear? This set off an alarm for her that things were going in a new direction than just my every 3-4 month dress-up day in a hotel room. I tried to assure her that underwear was it, and that it wasn't even visible because I had boxers over it, and jeans on top with a cinched belt. But none of that was helping.

    I also connected with someone else on the forum recently who lives in my area, and we had planned to meet for dinner (in male mode) later this month. My wife OK'd it initially after some discussion, but tonight confessed that she's very worried about that too. Firstly, my need to meet another CD'er concerns her (again about the direction this is taking). "What's next", she said, "maybe you'll want to go to a convention?" And secondly, and more urgently, she is concerned that someone far from accepting might overhear this person and I talking about CD'ing at the restaurant and try to beat me up on the way back to my car or something like that. My wife had a very traumatic childhood, and one result of it is that she is very mistrusting of the world. She defaults to the worst possible outcomes in any situation, assuming only the worst in people. When I responded to the convention piece, asking what would scare her about it, she said some crazy conservative extremist person with a gun or bomb could take the whole place out (as an example).

    I love my wife and don't want to put her in a position where she's fearful for my safety. She already experiences enough fear when I do my hotel dress-up days as Camille every few months, thinking someone may peek in the window, see a CD'er, and then try to hurt me. And I read on this forum the stories of so many others in total DADT relationships, or divorced as a result of CD'ing, and it makes me feel so lucky to even have a wife who will let me dress at all, receive packages at the house, etc. So I feel very fortunate to even have what I do. So I told her that I would no longer do any underdressing at work, and that I would not meet this person from the forum, because I don't really "need" to do these things, and don't want her to feel fearful. She appreciated that, though then she felt like I would resent for this. I told her that her feeling of safety meant more to me than the need to underdress or meet a fellow CD'er, which helped.

    But this all makes me very sad, as the underdressing brought me real joy today, and I was so looking forward to connecting with another person (in person) who could understand me on a level that none of my friends or family can. I am mourning the loss of these things, because I don't want to do it anyway and just lie about it. And I do want to get out in public a bit. I would love to go to a CD convention and spend the day dressed. I'd always hoped my wife would come around eventually to feeling safer and better about these as possibilities. But I feel quite hopeless about that now. As much as I want those things though, they are not worth my marriage, or worth putting my wife though so much fear of losing me. Despite her concerns being very far fetched in my opinion, they are still real fears for her and cause her real hardship. At the same time, I grew up in a household with an extremely nervous and overprotective mother where everyone in the house restricted themselves to keep her feeling safe and happy. So this is all definitely striking a nerve with me. I didn't want to feel that way in my own home as an adult.

    A frustrating factor here too is that my wife isn't interested in joining this forum, talking to a professional, reading any materials (except the few I've asked her to read). So she has very little information on the spectrum of CD'ing. But inline with her inclination towards fearing the worst, she told me tonight that she wonders where this is all going, and if in 25 years I won't want to become a woman. I tried to explain to her that I am "just a crossdresser", and that I don't have that desire nor never have to be actually female. But her only response was that I "am not psychic", and that all my assuring and fact quoting her wasn't helping her. I think at some level she is fearful to learn more, because she might discover facts that will reaffirm her worst fears about my path.

    Thanks to anyone who bothered to read all of this. Life will go on and Camille will have her moments here and there in hotel rooms. And the fact that I get to "be" her at all is a wonderful gift, even if it's seldom. Sooner or later I was bound to hit a boundary and discover just how big my fishbowl really is, and I think that now I am.

    Camille
    Last edited by Camille15; 09-04-2015 at 03:56 AM.

  2. #2
    Martini Girl Katey888's Avatar
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    That's a very touching and honest post Camille...

    It sounds to me like you understand the potential issues and you obviously know your own wife and circumstances better than anyone here... so I'm definitely not offering advice, just a little sympathy for your struggles and a bigger hug...



    Keep Calm & Carry On!

    Katey x
    "Put some lipstick on - Perfume your neck and slip your high heels on
    Rinse and curl your hair - Loosen your hips, and get a dress to wear"
    Stefani Germanotta

  3. #3
    Aspiring Member JeanetteX's Avatar
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    Hi Camille, thanks for sharing this story with us. I read it with great interest and although I dont have an immediate solution for you, I must say that one remark struck me. You mentioned your wife doesn't wanna look at this forum. Yet I do know from experience that people who don't understand CDing or CDers, get a whole different look at us after reading our stories. They do somehow realise the innocence (well, in 99% of all cases I'd say) of our lifestyle. So maybe it would be a good thing to somehow convince her to have a look here after all. Good luck girl...I wish you all the best
    Love and hugs Jeanette

  4. #4
    Member Candice June Lee's Avatar
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    Hi Camille, your wife's childhood trauma, whatever it was, is the key here it seems. I hear this safety concern from one of the other cders that I hang out with regularly. With that she had rights to be concerned. But a tiny fish bowl is a small world compared to the larger body of water the bowl is floating in. I don't know how to help you in this. It dies seem there is a need for you to be dressed in some form than what you have. I wish you well and hope that you can progress rather than stay in a stagnant fish bowl.
    Candi
    Perfection Is a Road Not a Destination

  5. #5
    Member Mark/Rebecca's Avatar
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    Honey, show her these. They may fit the bill for underdressing without the fear of discovery, and are actually quite fashionable.
    http://www.primadonna.eu/en/primadon...nts-0541403blc

  6. #6
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    I think some good advice is you don't have to tell her everything since she is so paranoid and had a bad childhood. For example if you can underdress for work and get out of the undies when you get home from work without her knowing this just might work for both of you i.e. in the bathroom with the door shut. Meeting with the CD dressed male just might help you to talk with one of ours, just don't mention it. I respect your love for your wife but some things between a husband and wife are better left unsaid, you know men are from Mars and women from Venius, their minds are on different wave lengths and all the talking in the world doesn't make them think alike.

    Your CDing is not going away, it's wired in your brain and nobody can change that so my suggestions just might allow the both of you to deal with the situation until "time and moving slow" helps her accept". You shouldn't be denied your need to CD.

  7. #7
    Aspiring Member ChristinaK's Avatar
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    Camille, I feel your pain. It must be difficult for our wives. I get frustrated with mine that she has strict limits on me, so I do things without her knowledge. I guess that's a part of the DADT relationship.

    Women tend to be accomodating, and wanting to give their husbands some latitude, let them do things they don't agree with o4 even find abhorrent just to keep their husbands happy. I have known a few who despise hunting, yet have furry heads hanging in their homes.

    In our case, it's crossdressing. While our wives allow some behavior, they also want to protect us and them from societal embarrassment. Women are much more sensitive to societal perceptions than men are, generally. Hence, once we entire into an area outside of extreme privacy, we are not only affecting ourselves, but their status and respect from others is tied to us.

    So, it could be that your wife is genuinely overly concerned for your safety, but also concerned about her own place in society.

    Women like to be proud of who their husbands are. A crossdresser is not on the list of things to be proud of.

    I don't have any help for you, other than to empathize and listen. Too bad we're not passionate about some other hobby that would make them proud, but we are who we are.

  8. #8
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    Don't assume that you're forever frozen in this situation. Keep open the channels of communication with your wife so that you can express your needs and interests, and she can deal, over time, with her fears. Many people find change threatening,nut over time the fears prove unfounded. Give her time and patience.
    Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one.

    Eleanor Roosevelt

  9. #9
    its important mykell's Avatar
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    hi camille,
    last spring i ventured out for the first time ever and was scared about how natural it felt, last year during the winter i told her about my wish list, to shave my legs, go to a sponsored event, and attend a support group.....but i will not leave the house dressed, doing makeup in the car sucks !!! like yourself i wish to venture outside the fishbowl and test the water outside the walls, but i respect my wifes wishes and will not do anything she does not approve of, she is told whatever the outcome as i tell her no more sneaking around, i told her that DADT will not be an excuse to do what i want.....iv had discussions with a forum member which are surreal, more than sharing in our writings here, but she was told it was to happen... this is a thread i started about the quilt i felt about her not receiving or having anyone to talk to about this,
    http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...-understanding

    i brought home a therapists card for her and some informational brochures from my support meeting also which she has not touched or acted on, her way of coping
    so its a "can lead a horse to water but cant make them drink" kinda thing.....and you wife is right about the "physic" remark, where it ends nobody knows....

    so no advise i suppose but a hug, virtual...but a squeezy one.....
    ....Mykell
    i dressed like a girl and i liked it! crossdressing...theirs an app for that

  10. #10
    I'm wishing to be her SANDRA MICHELLE's Avatar
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    Pretty sure many of us can relate to your situation, I know that I can. Once I told my wife that I was a crossdresser, around our 18th anniversary I have continually carried my dressing farther and farther. I always underdress and go out quite often fully dressed. We go shopping together at times and I have my Sandra days, sometimes more than I really should. Through it all my wife has been fairly supportive but I have at times gone too far for her and it is wrong of me to do so. Just be careful to always try and respect her wishes and feelings, that will go a long way.
    I want to be this girl!

  11. #11
    formerly: aBoyNamedSue IamWren's Avatar
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    I was really saddened to read your post Camille and especially to know at what time you were awake when you posted it. It must have been a stressful night. I wish I could offer some advice but I'm new to this myself... not only on the forum but to dressing as well.

    On one level I can agree with what Deebra said and underdress at work and try to keep it hidden. But I understand you don't want to lie to your wife and something I've read on the forum is that, in time, you WILL get caught. I don't think I could recommend that.

    I hope you and your wife can have some open and honest conversation about what it is you want for both your and her sake. Crossing my fingers.

    I'm thinking of you and offer you a hug across the void. (((hug)))
    ~Sayyidah
    I am not a woman nor am I a man... I am an enby. Hi, I am Wren.

  12. #12
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    Hello Camille,
    Thank you for sharing. You are a great and understanding husband. No doubt about it. You certainly have a lot of respect for your wife. You have a communication channel open and that is great and keep it open. It could only resolve itself in my opinion through conversation and it will take time. But don't loose hope. I can also understand her hesitation to join the forum - heck, it took me a year to register. I just finished reading a nice book My Husband Wears my Clothes. It is super cheap and available on Amazon. Written by a wife of a CD. Maybe buy one and leave it in the house. She ma peak at it and then read. It will help her to learn about us. Honestly, I am still waiting for my wife to read it. However, we had busy few months so I am still hopeful she will. Good luck and hugs!

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    Hi Camille,

    Thanks for your story and vulnerability. I share the opinion of not giving you advice, I can only tell you my experience (which I believe has many similarities)....

    So much of what you wrote is familiar to me. My wife has had so many of the same fears, and, at first, she was not willing to go to counseling or join a support group. When it became obvious that I needed to delve into my CD and gender issues deeper for my own sanity, she was able to slowly, painfully take her head out of the sand and we have both seen our own counselors for a couple months now. She would even be willing to meet other spouses now when I am ready to mingle with our own local community which will be soon, I hope.

    Also, the first time I asked her about her boundaries with the women's clothes I was buying - other than the day or two per month we would set up for me to dress outside of her sight - she broke into tears and was very scared at the thought that I wanted to wear some kind of women's clothing every day. Very slowly, and with the help of both our therapists, we have learned two things:

    1) She is deeply afraid of a future where I will need to present as a female more and more. She is not in any way attracted to females or desiring to be in a relationship with one, so she is very afraid she will lose her husband, lover, and best friend. No matter what I believe about my future path, I have a great deal of compassion for her fears and how they mess with her.

    2) She is very visual by nature. It is so hard for her to see me in any kind of woman's presentation and still see me. She simultaneously wants to love and support me, but has her own inner conflict when she imagines me in any kind of female presentation. Any thought of me presenting female throws her into the fear of #1 above.

    Here is the agreement we came to after about two months of therapy and negotiation...
    -I can fully dress one day a month in our home, where she will leave the house for a long time and let me know when she is returning.
    -I agree to wear ZERO female clothes in her presence, even if she can not see them, so that she can be present with me without concern or fear.
    -When I am on my own (work, play, etc.) I get to choose my own clothes, whatever they are.

    So far, and this agreement is only about three weeks old, we are both satisfied. I do carry an extra pair of men's underwear in my briefcase and change before I get home, or, immediately upon returning to the house. I want to uphold our agreements no matter how much I yearn to dress at home. Even though I get sad, resentful, or hurting at times, I remind myself how much I value our 25 years together and how hard she is working to accept my Twin Spirit nature.

    I also have come to ask her the following question on many occasions - "Are you afraid of me now, or the me in the future." She has always replied "the future," This allows us to continue to walk with baby steps and honesty and intimacy, knowing it will be a mess, but also loving each other and having no secrets. It is kind of a DADT with benefits.

    I send loving kindness to both of you. I will hold the hope of communication, integration, and transformation in your coupleship.

    Peace
    Eve

  14. #14
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    And she may be afraid to join here why? Afraid she might actually be wrong in her fears?

  15. #15
    Junior Member Robinadress's Avatar
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    Thank you for posting this sad but important post. It was really touching to read your story. I truly see how much you and your wife love each other.

    I’m not an expert at all on these issues. Personally I have just got out of a DADT, but that was after several years with patience to make my SO trust me. After reading a lot of stories about the relationship between the CD and the wife I have some theories on how to approach these situations. The problem is that every wife have a their own personalities and background, so there is no guarantee that what works with some will work with others. You know your wife best so you have to decide what approach will be best for you.

    I think your wife is very tolerant and accepts crossdressing very well. The problem may be her insecurity and lack of knowledge, as you write, with what will other people say and do to you if they find out. I believe she loves you so much that she is afraid of what will happen to you and if she is going to loose you in the future because of crossdressing and transition.

    I think you really need to make your wife sit down with you and tell her everything all at once. Even the questions you don’t know the answers to, and about where this will go in the future, you need to tell her that you don’t know. You need to tell her all that you know now and all that you want to do with this. I think that if you only tell her small parts of your story to protect her, it will tear her apart more and more each time something new comes up because then she really doesn’t know where this will end. I also have a strong believe that if you are totally honest with her she will also trust your story even more because you will talk to her with much more credibility. That will reassure her even more even if the truth will hurt at that moment. If you start to be careful to tell the hole truth she will feel that and make her even more insecure.

    I escaped the DADT by writing my SO a really long letter. I prepared the letter for more than six months. I almost had to “force” her to read it because she fared what would come out of the box. She was so afraid in the start of the letter. I have always thought that in a relationship you shouldn’t write letters to each other, but you should be able to talk. In this situation I thought that if we only had a talk I knew I would forget some important issues. When our wife’s that are afraid of this is faced with these questions they don’t even know what to ask about. I therefor answered all the questions I had read about from other couples just to make shore she got her answers also to her unknown questions. My letter took away a lot of fear from my SO, and it has improved our relationship and trust in each other.

    I really want to wish you both the best, and I hope you will keep us updated in the future. Read all the advices from the answers and find out what would be the best approach for both of you.

  16. #16
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    Hi Tracii,

    Just from my personal experience - when you don't want others to know, even forums don't feel safe for some.

  17. #17
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    Katya there comes a time when we all need to step out of our comfort zone and face our fears.
    I'm sure most members here myself included had to make that leap of faith and join here to try and learn.
    Someone unwilling to learn will never outgrow their fears.

  18. #18
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    Wow that is some read and you have massive sympathy from me and my support, I have been there with the underdressing conversation, it was a large step for my wife to take once she had found out that I dressed, she thought it was only in the house, then she discovered the underdressing and it really was a huge deal for her, it was a step on a step on a step

    But the reality is no one notices, I underdress to some level most days now, usually just panties in summer, but hold up stockings in winter, I love the feeling, never ever tire of it and I was very self conscious of it to start but now it is just me and how I am and my wife learnt to tolerate it, I mean she still doesn't understand what drives a man to want to do what I do, I guess that is the life that a lot of us live

    I am just a cross dresser like you and no wish to transition, I have been dressing now for 47 yrs now, so as I keep telling my wife, I think I know my own mind as a cross dresser by now

    Hey, it is tough for the partners and I think if we could convince more of our SO's to come here and read if not discuss then they would see that many of us are just what we are and that is cross dressing men

    No one said it would ever be easy

    Good luck Camille and thank you for the share

  19. #19
    Junior Member Misty Rae Pleasure's Avatar
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    Camille - The one thing that stands out in this forum is the varying degrees of crossdressing that occurs in our community. I too am married to a wonderful wife and have two awesome kids. They don't about my crossdressing as I keep it private and relegate to the confines of our home. I only dress up after everyone leaves the house and is sure that no one will return early. I would love to be able to confide in my wife and family, but I am unsure how they would react. The risk benifit ratio is not worth it to me. I can't tell you how smokin hot it would be to have wild hang from the ceiling sex with my wife all the while dressed as hot as she is. It's a fantasy, and unfortunely will probably have to stay that way. Although about a year ago we were talking and she told me how good pantyhose felt on her and I should try a pair on to see how it feels. Stupid me should have jumped at the chance. I am hoping one of these days the topic will come up again. I won't blow it this time. I get great pleasure out of crossdressing, but I can't put my desires over the good of my family. I so wish I could come out to them. I know this a lot about me, but offer my experiences only to let you know you have company. I too have found my boundaries like you. Hang in there girl.


    Lady Pleasure

  20. #20
    Senior Member UNDERDRESSER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Camille15 View Post
    She's concerned about where all of this is going.....My wife had a very traumatic childhood, and one result of it is that she is very mistrusting of the world. She defaults to the worst possible outcomes in any situation, assuming only the worst in people. When I responded to the convention piece, asking what would scare her about it, she said some crazy conservative extremist person with a gun or bomb could take the whole place out (as an example).
    I would be concerned as well, after reading this, about where she is going to end up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Camille15 View Post

    As much as I want those things though, they are not worth my marriage, or worth putting my wife though so much fear of losing me. Despite her concerns being very far fetched in my opinion, they are still real fears for her and cause her real hardship. At the same time, I grew up in a household with an extremely nervous and overprotective mother where everyone in the house restricted themselves to keep her feeling safe and happy. So this is all definitely striking a nerve with me. I didn't want to feel that way in my own home as an adult.
    I am not a psychologist, and I don't know your wife, but I would be concerned about, first, how bad this issue will get for her, second, how similar it could get to the situation you had with your Mother, and third, how much of life she is missing out on.
    "Normal is what you get when you average out the weirdness that everybody has." Quote from my SO

    Normal is a setting on a washing machine, or another word for average.

    The fact that I wear a skirt as a male should not be taken as a comment on what you do, or do not wear, or how you wear it.

  21. #21
    MIDI warrior princess Amy Fakley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChristinaK View Post
    ... So, it could be that your wife is genuinely overly concerned for your safety, but also concerned about her own place in society.

    Women like to be proud of who their husbands are. A crossdresser is not on the list of things to be proud of.
    This. Which isn't to say that those feelings are invalid, but it helps to be honest about these things (sometimes brutally).

    It's hard to imagine an adult really being that concerned that your coworkers will ever catch a glimpse of your underwear. Unless you have a really unusual line of work, I guess.

    I don't guess I have any advice, other than this. Maybe copy and paste this thread into an email and send it to her? Maybe that could be a gentle catalyst for starting a meaningful conversation.
    "Why shouldn't art be pretty? There are enough unpleasant things in the world." -Pierre-Auguste Renoir

  22. #22
    Another fine dress AngelaYVR's Avatar
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    Trust should work both ways.

  23. #23
    Senior Member Nikkilovesdresses's Avatar
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    Hi Camille,

    The first thing that struck me about your post is that I kept thinking I was reading words written by a woman. You are so in touch with your feelings, so caring and kind, so sensitive, so emotional and so gentle. You seem willing and able to put your wife's feelings before your own, and although the obligatory result saddens you and leaves you unfulfilled, you are prepared to do it without resentment. What a wonderful husband you must be, to someone who has been so hurt in the past.

    I wonder if it's the case that you are expressing such (traditionally) feminine qualities in every day life, that it compensates for the lack of crossdressing and enables you to cope, under what to many of us would be very challenging conditions.

    You do seem very willing to put your wife's needs ahead of your own, and sometimes it's easy to fall into the pattern of pleasing others in order to avoid facing our own true desires and natures. It's a lot easier to be the clothing supplier to an Arctic expedition than it is to trek to the North Pole. I imagine that Sir Ranulph Fiennes is not an easy man to live with and that if he desired he would walk to the Pole in pink heels and a lacy bikini and to hell with his wife and what the Eskimos might think.

    I agree with Deebra, that you should allow yourself a little more slack. Don't feel you have to tell another person everything, even if that person is your wife. It's your life too. This thing makes you very, very happy- do you really want to live with that much compromise?

    I don't see why your wife shouldn't meet you halfway- perhaps you should take the lead a little more positively, rather than allowing her fears to limit both your lives.

    Hugs, good luck!

    Nikki
    I used to have a short attention spa

  24. #24
    Lady By Choice Leslie Langford's Avatar
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    Camille, you're in a dark place right now, but given time and space, I am sure that things will work out for you eventually. Nothing is forever or absolutely set in stone - who would ever have foreseen in our lifetime the break-up of the Soviet Union, the dismantling of the Berlin Wall, and the West being all palsy-walsy with Communist China while they manufacture our iphones, keep Walmart in business, and generally call the shots on how the world economy and the global stock markets perform? You're already way ahead of some of us here who are in far more restrictive DADT relationships, so just give your wife the opportunity to process new information about your crossdressing evolution in a way that works for her, all the while keeping in mind the time-honored mantra of "baby steps, baby steps" that is a cornerstone of this forum.

    I remember an "old school", Ed Sullivan Show era stand-up comedian once telling a joke about a little boy who wanted a bicycle for Christmas, but was unsure of how to ask for this given that his family was of very modest means. One of his friends then suggested that when his grandmother finally came around to asking him what his Christmas wish might be, he modestly reply that while getting a new bicycle would be ever so nice, what he really, really hoped for was world peace. Needless to say, he got the bicycle.

    The moral of the story here is that if you continue to demonstrate to your wife how important her feelings (and concerns) about your crossdressing are to you - and are willing to compromise your own needs in deference to hers - eventually the guilt pangs over being so hard-line will overtake her and she will relent, perhaps even meeting you part-way in the process. Yes, this may sound a bit manipulative, but then again, women have used guilt as a way of manipulating their menfolk to do their bidding since time immemorial, so what's fair is fair.

    Yes, relationships are all about negotiation, setting boundaries, and respecting the other person's values and points of view, but nowhere is it written that these agreements can't be revisited from time to time, nor be renegotiated as situations evolve or change

  25. #25
    Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    S.E.Baltimore Co. Maryland USA
    Posts
    43,909
    Hi Camille, I sure hope that your wife and you can come to some middle ground on this issue.
    Having my ears triple pierced is AWESOME, ~~......

    I can explain it to you, But I can't comprehend it for you !

    If at first you don't succeed, Then Skydiving isn't for you.

    Be careful what you wish for, Once you ring a bell , you just can't Un-Ring it !! !!

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