Totally not worth it!

[Donnagirl]

Can I just say this scares me... I have a friend here with a fistula which has badly affected her ongoing happiness.

Does anyone have a good news story to counter???

[Barbara Ella]

April, I am so very sorry to hear this. I cannot pretend to discuss the feelings one has post op. I can relate to the feelings of GD that go on interminably in the present and the thoughts about what can be done to achieve some degree of relief. And the continuing thought that relief may not be achieved. At my age GRS is not likely. I am however very body oriented and hope to have liposuction, body modification, fat transfer for hips and butt lift, and eventually BA. Will that relieve my discomfort, who knows, but it is my step forward, and it is always a crap shoot

I pray your difficulties can be lessened, and your GD addressed. I trust you will see what you have done as positive steps forward in your journey. No one's journey is in any way similar to any one else's, so no comparisons are meaningful. You are an individual treasure.

Hugs,

Barbara

[Kelly DeWinter]

When AprilRain posted "However in addition to sometimes still wishing I was a woman, wanting a Va JJ and all that I now also have moments where I Wish I'd just been a normal dude." is THE question that needs to be firmly settled in someones mind before transition, Who am I ? Am I a Woman or Am I a Man ? Counseling can only help you frame the question. Sometimes I wonder if it is similar to what I went trough as a budding artist. I doubted myself and my abilities when compared to other artists especially the Master Artists. When I firmly decided in my mind that I was an Artist, the results in my work improved by leaps and bounds. I actually felt and believed in myself AS an Artist. Sure there were areas I lacked techniques and skills that others had as an Artist that I did not. But my Skills and Abilities were unique to me, and that was good enough for me. I have approached my sometimes overwhelming Gender Identity the same way. I have found peace in being the best me that I can be.

[Kate T]

I'm on a phone so please apologies short reply.
Firstly, April, I am truly sorry for your discomfort. It can be horrible when medical stuff goes wrong. I hope you can be pain free in the (very) near future.
Secondly I wonder if there is a need to further examine Gender Dysphoria in particular as it relates to physical anatomy. I think Kaitlyn and a couple of others touched on this. My personal opinion is that we may be better off thinking of Gender Dysphoria and what I will call body Dysphoria as linked but separate concerns. Gender Dysphoria to me relates to the social and relationship aspects of not being in sync with how we feel about ourselves. Body Dysphoria as I see it relates to being happy with ones physical appearance. I'm not saying one is more important than the other, just that believing correcting one will correct the other (ie correcting body Dysphoria will correct gender Dysphoria) is not necessarily the case.

[kimdl93]

April, what can I offer of value. Nothing, really, except that I'm so sorry you've had to endure this.

[Pink Person]

April, you have my deepest sympathy.

We all have some form of gender discomfort or dysphoria. It’s a struggle to cope with it, but I cope with mine.

For the record, I am strongly opposed to hormone therapy and surgical intervention for myself and am somewhat less strongly opposed to it for other people who might want it. In my opinion, there is far too much psychological and social dysfunction in the world regarding transgender issues that inflates our personal issues about being transgender. Deflating psychological dysfunction and social dysfunction with positive psychological and social remedies that don’t involve hormones and surgery is a vastly underserved area of transgender healthcare. In my opinion, we are still in a primitive stage of addressing transgender health issues.

Hormones and surgery work for some people sometimes. New problems sometimes take the place of old problems when these things don’t work as expected. I have had some good results by staying focused on resolving my emotional issues and managing my conscious and subconscious thought processes. In my experience, I have learned how to be transgender better over time. It’s something that I’m still learning and expect to continue to learn.

[Michelle789]

I generally counsel people to do GRS if pruning shears are starting to seem appealing - I.e. they have really serious dysphoria over their genitals. If not, I recommend against. For a lot of us, FFS is a much better use of coin. I base this on conversations I've had here and in my local trans organization.

As for value for money, it depends where your dysphoria is focused the most IMHO. Sorting out your body below the waistline won't show as much as FFS, breast augmentation or a hair transplant does. If you lack in the latter areas then whatever your genitals resemble won't improve your mindset when you undress and look in the mirror. If you need procedures to look like a convincing female naked in the mirror then put your money into doing those before paying for GRS.

Both of you have really hit on something. I agree that unless you have really serious genital dysphoria that FFS or BA is a better use of your resources. In fact, I would probably say that FFS is a better first choice for surgery than BA. My belief is that, unless you really hate your genitals, or you're blessed with lots of money, the best way is to get FFS first, BA second, any other body sculpting surgeries third, and SRS last.

For many of us, myself included, being able to be taken as a female, without question, at first glance is highly important to us. FFS is often the number one surgery needed to pass as a woman. SRS has no bearing on whether or not you pass. If your breasts are too small, you can always wear padding to make your breasts appear larger as long as you dress conservatively and avoid cleavage exposing clothes. This works well if you plan on working in a professional environment, and may be a bummer if you like to go to the beach.

For me, being mis-gendered causes severe dysphoria. I believe that someone mentioned how being clocked and having someone let you know that you don't pass can trigger dysphoria. It certainly does for me. I really resent it when someone calls me sir or he. It happened once by the TSA at JFK airport, and once on my plane back to L.A. A woman at the Delta counter didn't use any pronouns and it was obvious she was struggling to gender me properly. Getting mis-gendered also makes me feel unattractive, and as woman, trans or cis, feeling and being attractive is something very important to us. Why is passing so important?

1. Safety

2. Being able to get a job

3. Being able to be considered "conventionally attractive". Even cis-women who are not "conventionally attractive" often face discrimination. Most of the perks that women receive, which are few to begin with, are only awarded to pretty girls. And no matter what anyone says, your face determines whether or not you are considered one of the pretty girls. Your face plays 80% towards your attractiveness, and 80% towards your passability.

4. Being gendered properly 100% of the time. Being mis-gendered can cause dysphoria, as I said above.

5. Being able to look in the mirror each morning and see a girl, and not a feminine man.

6. Feeling complete as a woman.

7. Being socially accepted as a woman among other women.

8. Your own self esteem. How we feel as woman is often linked to how attractive we are. Often FFS / plastic surgery can make us feel more at peace with our appearance and thus ourselves.

I might also add hair transplants as important because wearing a wig can get us clocked, no matter how good our hair looks. Natural hair goes a long way towards helping you pass.

Getting SRS makes no difference in whether or not you pass, except when dealing with dogs, or the TSA X-ray machines, or god forbid a rape. SRS is great for anyone feeling severe genital dysphoria. If you really, really hate your penis and desire a vagina, than SRS may be your first surgery choice. If you really, really hate your face or are having trouble passing, than FFS is probably your first surgery choice.

I do not advocate for vocal chord surgery unless your voice is so terribly deep that you need it to be able to speak in the female range. Vocal chord surgery can seriously leave your vocal chords permanently damaged and you may never be able to speak above a whisper again. A botched FFS, BA, or SRS, can always be corrected with more surgery, not matter how costly. A botched vocal chord surgery is irreversible, no matter how much money you have. I would tell everyone do not get vocal chord surgery. I have no plans on vocal chord surgery and I will gladly attempt to retrain my voice using voice retraining therapy techniques, no matter how painful or slow. Besides, there are 9 elements of speaking like a female - pitch is only one of them. Vocal chord surgery only corrects the pitch - it doesn't fix the other eight.

@April - I'm really sorry this happened to you. I don't know what your financial resources are like, but is there any way you can get your genitals fixed? I have heard of people having complications with SRS and having to go back to get it fixed - is this in any way in the cards for you?

[PamTG]

That is what I like about forums like this is that you can get so many different opinions about all of this and even though I would love to not have a penis just thinking about complications during surgery has me scared so much and I feel bad that it hasn't turned out the way that you wanted. Perhaps I will just take hormones and eventually just get the curves and the breasts and then be complete and not worry what is between my legs because I can always tuck for the rest of my life and perhaps I wouldn't be any happier with a V than a P. I guess time will tell in what direction I really decide to choose.

[Badtranny]

I.
Just.
Can't.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

wasnt it a couple months ago folks were getting blasted for saying dont transition unless you have to... blasted for being too negative...

april you sure set off some passionate comments..

i wonder about alternatives.. in my mind, this is a medical procedure...in all medical procedures you take advantage of the best available technology.

unfortunately for us, we take risks we really can't control very well (surgery risks), and we are mostly forced to self identify (which i think most people are hugely invested in their self id).. its risky..

being transsexual sucks... the options are stark, or at least seem very stark... and for whatever reason the rabbit hole of gender dysphoria is one way... and the only way to crawl out is to live your gender...

pink and others live their true gender which is NOT transsexual, so their experience managing GD is IRRELEVANT...i am just shocked over and over that well meaning people don't get what it means to actually be transsexual


ive said it before, i was ambivalent... i am thrilled i got the surgery afterwards... i couldn't separate my fear of surgery, my shame and my body dysphoria.....it came out as being unsure..but something led me to do it...
i am so sorry that some suffer complications and I sure would be upset if i had bad complications....

but i come out that if you can say you need the surgery, you get the surgery...second guessing afterwards comes with rose colored glasses...it was the GD that got you there...

[docrobbysherry]

I thank all of u for your honest posts. About the details of being trans that we rarely get to hear about. Excuse me if I find it all a bit terrifying. I need a good cry now----

[Rianna Humble]

We all have some form of gender discomfort or dysphoria. It’s a struggle to cope with it, but I cope with mine.

For the record, I am strongly opposed to hormone therapy and surgical intervention for myself and am somewhat less strongly opposed to it for other people

Just because a cissexual person can cope with their claimed Gender Dysphoria, does not invalidate the very real experience of transsexuals.

Pink, I'm glad that you are "somewhat less strongly opposed" to treatment that can be literally life-saving for a transsexual. It is good to see that we don't have to suffer your total disapproval of our right to live. I'm sure that many people will be glad that you condescend to allow that we might actually need vital medication that you oppose.

[Zooey]

April - I'm so sorry to hear about all the complications you've had. I agree that it's not something we hear about often enough, and I'm glad you shared your experience.

I.
Just.
Can't.

Yup - I'm planning a strategic retreat to a bunker. A bunker with a Starbucks that serves PSL all year long.

Or maybe just Safe Haven - whatevs.

[Aprilrain]

To answer some questions:

I went to Dr Meltzer, I've been back twice and had further procedures to correct the difficult dilation and peeing on myself. The peeing got better for awhile but has gone back to how it was. The dilations never got better. My GP has prescribed the lidocaine which helps to a degree.

For those who don't know I was fully transitioned for four years before having SRS. I had and still have a therapist, endocrinologist, GP, Etc. nether transition nor SRS were decisions I entered into on a whim.

There is this belief (faith?) in the trans community that if you dot your I's and cross your T's you'll cure the GD. And let's face it none of us imagines a life where we have lost everything when we make the decision to transition so even if we intellectually know that transition "only cures GD" (if it even does that) and we know we could lose everything we hope for a better life than the one we've been living. Why else would one take the risk?

So yeah, I don't have that pervasive soul crushing need to look like a woman anymore. I've achieved that. But I don't really feel like a woman and I'm not even sure why I needed to be one so badly but yet I still do. It's all very strange and sometime leaves me wishing I could have just been happy being the dude I was. Minus the GD and a bad marriage, life was good!

Anyway like I said my life is not bad outside of the internal dialogue. I have resources, some friends, and othe fulfilling aspects to life. I just think there needs to be more research done in the trans field of medicine. We have not found adequate treatment in my opinion.

[Eringirl]

I wasn't going to chime in on this one, but ya'll know me...big mouth....

I was discussing this topic just the other night with two very good friends and we all have different opinions based upon our needs. I am not going to pontificate what is right for others, I just know what I need to do.

For me SRS is a major priority, so it is the first surgery. My therapists and others in my medical team agree. Okay, so no one is going to know, relative to the obvious effects of other surgeries, but I will know. I am doing it for me. That will be followed by FFS if needed. Most are saying that I won't need it, given my bone structure and genetic make up. That, in turn, will be followed by BA, again, if needed. But that is going to be at LEAST 2 or 3 years down the road before I will know, allowing time for HRT to work its magic, and my genetic makeup.

I have selected my surgeon who is only 3 hours away by car and he and his clinic have an excellent reputation with very very good results. A friend of mine is having her surgery there in a couple of weeks, so I am hoping to be able to support her when she is back and recovering.

So, yup, this is all about me. This is a very personal choice and I only know what is right for me, not for others. Here's to whatever works for you....

[LeaP]

I went to Dr Meltzer ...

There is this belief (faith?) in the trans community that if you dot your I's and cross your T's you'll cure the GD. And let's face it none of us imagines a life where we have lost everything when we make the decision to transition so even if we intellectually know that transition "only cures GD" (if it even does that) and we know we could lose everything we hope for a better life than the one we've been living. Why else would one take the risk?

So yeah, I don't have that pervasive soul crushing need to look like a woman anymore. I've achieved that. But I don't really feel like a woman and I'm not even sure why I needed to be one so badly but yet I still do. It's all very strange and sometime leaves me wishing I could have just been happy being the dude I was. Minus the GD and a bad marriage, life was good!

What is Meltzer's take on the situation?

There is a focus on GD - period. The reason, of course, is that most TS experience it. At the clinical levels that would qualify for an actual diagnosis, it's incredibly debilitating. (Which you know.) But that is almost invariably taken to mean the host of co-morbid conditions, not distress specifically over incongruence. If the issue is incongruence AND there is distress over it then yes, I would expect transition to resolve both. It may or may not mitigate co-morbid issues. It seems logical that it would, to the degree they are triggered by the core incongruence problem and the directly-related GD, but it doesn't always work that way. I believe that dysfunctions can become part of your core persona and behavior. Modalities like cognitive therapy are aimed (in part) at unwinding it.

The comment over not remembering (feeling, really) why you transitioned and if it was really necessary doesn't surprise me, as I've heard that from most post-ops. My doctor has made the same observation several times. She says sometimes it just feels like she traded one side of the bed for the other ... and then questions did she really need to ... But she did need to and knows that, too. I take all this as an indication of normalcy. She reflects back, but in a normal, stable mind, thinking that if this normalcy was in her, why could she not have done things differently? The answer is obvious, but it doesn't change how she experiences herself now.

[Eryn]

I think it a bit much to expect the surgeon to offer much advice in the psychological arena. The surgeon's task is to make physical changes and other professionals should have addressed the psych issues before the surgeon entered the picture.

Nothing we do is a cure for GD. The aggregate of all the things we do may make us feel better about ourselves, but I think some vestige of GD will always remain.

[Frances]

For the record, I had complications too. I had a severe infection that made even the contact with water hurt like heck. Orgasms took 8 months and peeing is still an issue after almost 5 years. I still pee a little on myself. I would say that recovery took years, not months. I also had two small revisions.

SRS was not a priority for me. Social transition took care of a lot of stuff. There was no legal sexual designation without surgery at the time, and I wanted that. I am glad I did it, but dilations are still hard and my two attempts at sex have not been easy. It also sucks for dating, as the man will have to know that penetration will require super human strength.

I experienced a professional burnout since transitioning. I have been back in therapy (10 years total now, ending today). It turns out that post-transition, post-SRS therapy was as important as the therapy leading up to it. My anxiety had blown up to insance proportions and I was living in fear of some much stuff. It did not make me regret transition, but it made stay cloistered in my apartment all the time. There is a pre-transition depression, and there can be a post-transition one too.

During the time when I had the infection, the pain was excruciating and dilations were nearly impossible. If regret ever came into the picture, it was at that moment. I remember thinking "why did I do this to myself?"

One very important thing though: The thing with curing GD is that there is no Gender Euphoria. It is boring as s**t to be cis.

[LeaP]

I think it a bit much to expect the surgeon to offer much advice in the psychological arena. ...

I wasn't asking about psych issues and I was trying to ask more discreetly, but since it seems to have caused misunderstanding, let me ask outright: Did Meltzer screw up and does he acknowledge it? Does he express an opinion as to why you have these issues while others do not? Does he think they will resolve?

One very important thing though: The thing with curing GD is that there is no Gender Euphoria. It is boring as s**t to be cis.

Ironic - one of the concerns I expressed to my therapist was not knowing how to be normal. While I don't live for my drama (to be euphemistic), I can see how it's protected me and enabled me to get by.

[Abby Kae]

I've been watching this thread with trepidation since I was first made.

My only input is that I'm so sorry you're going through this, April.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

My GD is gone.

I still go to therapy
...i still talk about how growing up repressed and trans changed me and how it impacts me today..i still suffer terrible anxiety around some things that i think can be explained by my past and how i lived inside my head..
i still suffer shame issues and still have trouble saying simply "i am a woman"... that still seems strange to me after all those years and all that conditioning...
I still feel awkward when with a group of ciswomen..but i'm far from dysfunctional and feeling awkward is a nothing more than feeling awkward..i'm sure lots of women feel awkward or insecure around others..

so i don't think thats gender dysphoria.... not even a little bit....
i do wish i wasn't transsexual... i wish i was either a cis guy or girl...i wouldn't care... cis MEANS YOU DONT CARE, you just ARE.... and guess what....
I'm transsexual...I DONT CARE THAT I"M A WOMAN.... I just AM....it is very rare outside of here and my speeches to even think of my gender...

i'm thrilled to be past the gender dysphoria...it hurt me so much for so many years...it took so much away from me (and others)...and in the end it was burying me..
and not its all over...

lots of issues, lots of problems, lots of comorbid issues...but i have a strong remembrance of how i felt...i consult old journals and I am LITERALLY shaken by what i wrote...it was DARK, it's like it was written by a trapped animal...and like a trapped animal i did what it took to get out of the trap...no compromises...i just did it..just like others here...and i feel the consequence was exactly what i expected...the end of GD and the beginning of something else..

I had no choice...looking back serves to remind me why i did it, but that's it.

My own nature is to focus on what got me here...the OUTCOME is ALWAYS uncertain...risks are real...choices get made, crap happens or it doesnt...some of the outcomes are out of our control..but the alternatives were unacceptable ...

and I think all of us are well served to stay in touch with that feeling that led us to transition....if you havent felt that feeling, i hope you never do..

[Badtranny]

Nothing we do is a cure for GD. The aggregate of all the things we do may make us feel better about ourselves, but I think some vestige of GD will always remain.

Wait, what?

I don't think April's experience is common among TranSitioned women. I have read some accounts but April is the first person I know personally to have mentioned it.

I've said many many times that as bad as my transition has been (and I can't really complain) the fact that I feel normal now is worth all of it. My GD is absolutely gone, because I am now free to be me. It would be nicer of course to not be a freak, but I'll take this over being a melancholy dude any day.

Look, I don't want to be rude, but April has been working on her transition for years. Procedures, coming out, more procedures, she is up on the wire living her post-transition life and I think it's inappropriate for someone who hasn't had a single procedure and is in fact still predominately closeted to say something like this. It's also totally wrong. Kait and I are just two examples but I bet there's dozens just on this board.

[Aprilrain]

I only post this to be %100 honest about my experience with SRS. My complications are relatively minor in the grand scheme of things but are upsetting none the less. I think these things are fairly common and I just wonder why no one talks about it. I really don't think the medical technology is there yet. If I had it to do over I would save myself $23,000 and a shit load of pain for not much gain. Like I said, I know no one asked but in my opinion SRS isn't worth it.

As far as the rest of my transition is concerned there is good and there is bad. On bad days I go round and round with it. Did I really have to do it, was there another way? if only! Blah blah blah. It doesn't resolve anything. The fact remains I did what I felt I needed to do at the time.

[charlenesomeone]

April I wish you all the best going forward. Also thanks for sharing as it has, in me at least, caused reflection.
Hugs

[Eringirl]

I am truly saddened to learn of the pain experienced by those here who have had complications with the SRS or other procedures. Your experiences are legit and need to be told and heard. Does it make me nervous regarding SRS....sure it does....as many have said, it is a major surgery, and any major surgery (or any surgery for that matter) can have complications. But I remind myself of the positive experiences that I have heard. Two of my friends here in my town had SRS about 5 years ago with no complications and good recovery. They are really happy, married, and enjoying their lives, no regrets. So this leads to wondering if there is an effect of the "sample size" for the experiences. Not all trans women are on this board, so how representative of the total Trans community regarding SRS is this forum? Are there lots of Trans women out there who have had positive experiences and results that have never been on this forum, or were here maybe at one time, but no longer feel the need as they have moved on with their life and choose to be a bit more stealth?? Please, this is not to discount the importance of anyone's experience. I do not wish to offend.