Stuck in a man suit.

[RobinCA]

I feel as if I am stuck in a man suit. It's like having to wear the most hideous outfit you can imagine every day. You can never change. You can put things on over it, but it's always there. Does anyone else feel this way?
I feel like no matter what I do, I'll never get out of it.
So the only thing I can think to do, since I can't get out of the suit, is to make it an Armani.
I feel as if I have to be 2 different people. The 6'2" male construction worker competitive bodybuilder, and whenever I can, the glorious feminine woman I truly am inside.

I need to be a wonderful daddy and role model for my little girl, a strong protective husband for my wife, and also the woman I really am inside.

Luckily my wife fully supports me in both roles, and helps me to become a feminine woman whenever circumstances allow. I am truly blessed to have such a wonderful spouse.

However, The duality of my existence is very taxing on me emotionally.

I am just wondering how the rest of you deal with it?

I am not in a position to start hormone therapy and fully transition, I will when the time is right.
Until then, I will continue to live as 2 people sharing the same male body.

Please let me know if you feel the same, as I need to talk to someone in "my shoes" so to speak.

[Laura912]

There were and are many here who have similar feelings as you. If it gets to be too much, you may find that spending time with a professional counselor trained in transgender issues will be helpful. Search the threads posted by the frequent posters you find in this part.

[RylieCD]

Robin, I am in the same situation although my wife knows she doesn't want to be apart of it. Our first is on her way and I feel the same about being her protector and good role model. I am also afraid how I will deal with this as now my wife will be home more and I will have other priorities in life. Currently I dress when able, go out few times a year, underdress when I can, unfortunatly I cannot do any body modifications that would last any length of time, so even shaving is out.

Talking with a counselor, being on here, talking to friends or writing a diary also helps. I will be very interested what others have done, it seems like the this part of the community (non op, non transition TS) is the most quiet.

[RADER]

When I have to wear a suit and tie; I see it as a chance to under dress.
I wear panties 24/7, so no change there, But pantie-hose, Bra, with forms,
And maybe girdle. Under a suit coat, no one see' what you have on, just do
not remove the coat......LOL
Rader

[Zooey]

I need to be a wonderful daddy and role model for my little girl, a strong protective husband for my wife, and also the woman I really am inside.

Luckily my wife fully supports me in both roles, and helps me to become a feminine woman whenever circumstances allow. I am truly blessed to have such a wonderful spouse.

Doing some unnecessary-word-elimination/replacement here... Why does being a wonderful parent, role model, and a strong protective spouse require you to be a man? These sorts of statements that always make me sad and/or worried. Transition is a bitch and ends a lot of relationships, but I really hate it when m2f transfolk of any sort internalize so much damaging misogyny. Incidentally, that's a big part of why I usually regret it when I get near the CD forums...

Also - does your wife understand this the same way you say you do? There's a big difference between "helping you dress like a woman" and "helping you be a woman".

Without getting too deep into it, I will say that I feel terrible for people in the situations described here if they are actually TS. Largely because I fear they are sitting on ticking time-bombs, "know it but don't", and are trying desperately to ignore that weird repetitive noise in the background (must just be the wind).

Edit: removing some stuff I firmly believe but only wrote because I'm in a bit of a mood...

[RobinCA]

Thanks for the sage advice Zooey, really appreciate it. Now I'm in my own kind of mood...

For your information my wife is helping me to be a woman, not just helping me dress, I can do that on my own.

As far as my beliefs on being a strong male role model for my daughter, neither I nor my wife had that luxury as children and I want my sweet little girl to have it

I've got to find my own path and I was hoping someone in a similiar situation might be able to identify with my particular journey, and perhaps supply some encouraging words for me to chew on while walking said path.

Don't be be sad or worried for me.

[Robin414]

Hi RobinCA, I avoid conversations here because I don't think I can relate...ouch, this busted glass sooo hurts the feet! but I hear yah girl!

[Zooey]

Robin, I'm sincerely sorry if I offended you.

I responded the way that I did because I recognized patterns in your post that I've seen before, and perhaps those past experiences aren't meaningful in this case. I don't know.

I obviously respect your beliefs about what kind of role model you want to be for your daughter. I don't necessarily agree with your viewpoint on that, at least in part because of some wonderful children I know personally who are being raised by multiple strong women, but it doesn't matter what I think. It's your daughter, and I'm just a talking head on the internet.

Whether it's applicable to your situation or not, I do think that internalized misogyny is something worth discussing more often, because I see a lot of it amongst transwomen. Especially those who feel they just can't transition for one reason or another.

Again, my sincere apologies if I was projecting. Best of luck to you, and hopefully you can find the type of advice that you're looking for.

[Tina955]

Stuck in a man suit, pretty much sums it up. Never in my 60 years have I been comfortable in this body or even liked my reflection. So I can totally relate robin. Even tho my wife is gone now and even if my children could accept their father becoming a woman, I just can't get past the fact I know they will be very disappointed. And I fear they gain a tendency to avoid being with me. The lonliness I already feel from losing my wife is often unbearable, so I can't fathom even more lonliness.

Tina

[MeowKitty]

Hi Zooey, I know your apology will be greatly appreciated by my lovely wife Robin. She is at the very beginning of her journey, and as you know great change is hard for anyone, especially when it is life altering such as this.

As a loving wife of someone that is transgender, I want to do everything in my power to make my beloved happy. Sometimes those that are the end of such an impactful transition may lose site of where they were at the beginning. We live in a cruel world, to many of us become jaded by this harsh reality.

I respect you for your initial opinion, and I giving you my love for being self actualized, but please be a little kinder, since words can be hurtful. I believe that love can change the world, even one person at a time. Big Hugs!

[Kaitlyn Michele]

In the OP you say..

"I need to be a wonderful daddy and role model for my little girl, a strong protective husband for my wife, and also the woman I really am inside.

I transitioned and yet i'm a wonderful daddy and role model for my girls...They are both in college now ...can't beleive it..
My role modeling included being myself and being a successful woman...they are proud of our family.
I took care of my wife to the extent she needed me...and she chose to leave me in the end, but stay friends and co parents...we both look back now and although there is pain, it is mostly good...we are closer than many 20+yr couples..
and my kids are open and loving and understanding of others... my transition did challenge them.

what will you tell your daughter in 20 years?? that you lived a lie for her? never tell her??

if you are transsexual, you are going to be forced to man up in a totally different way... i hope you can continue to balance things but that's not the usual way it plays out for ts people...

[Badtranny]

and I giving you my love for being self actualized, but please be a little kinder, since words can be hurtful.

?

Sooooooo you want a person who has literally put everything on the line to live authentically to be 'kinder' in a discussion forum about transitioning? What did she say that wasn't kind?

Does it occur to you or anyone for that matter that there are people who are on the verge of transition who might hate themselves a bit when they read comments like "I need to be a wonderful daddy and role model for my little girl, a strong protective husband for my wife"

Do you think these people don't love their kids, or their wives?

Why do people who have no intention of transitioning come in here and talk about NOT transitioning? You have no way of knowing this, but that window of time between the decision and the doing is emotionally difficult for some people. They come here for support and discussions about TRANSITIONING, not to be shamed by someone who is "not in a position to start hormone therapy and fully transition". What is the point of coming here and saying that?

Hey guys, I'm just like you, but I won't be doing any of that transition stuff, I'm not crazy.

Look, transition is a hell of a thing, I don't blame anyone for not doing it. I recommend not doing it in fact, but what exactly is the point of coming here in this particular forum with that perspective? The regulars here are not closeted at all. We talk about the difficulties of coming out, not staying in.

Maybe it's me that just doesn't get it. Maybe the TS forum should just be a place where people talk about not transitioning and us numb-skulls who blew up our lives should just go somewhere else?

[STACY B]

Tell you Readers of this one thing for sure,, I thought I knew it all once upon a time and was SURE about certain things. An when it all first took place and I was starting to get therapy and didn't have a clue on what I was and thought this whole TS section was a bunch of mean and nasty people that were bitter and full of self pity and hated the world because they were so quick to jump on anyone that invaded there space here and used to come over in this section from time to time when I had seen something that I wanted to comment on that caught my eye and they would scold me and bash and rip me apart for saying the wrong thing and I would leave MAD and get pissed about all they did to me.

But the more you figure out who and what you REALLY are, The more you realized WHERE you were headed the more this place and it's members made sense. I even printed some things from here that the WELL KNOWN TS lady's said in some words of wisdom and took it with me to therapy and showed the writings to my therapist and she read it and asked it she could keep it for future reference for her other TG patents . That's how profound some of this advice is, So get mad and pout if you want or even take your ball and go home BUT you will NEVER ,,, EVER,, Find the wisdom and advice and Truth ANYWHERE out there like you get for FREE HERE !!

An believe you me I looked over and over for an alternative to discount what I was feeling and wanted to find anything I could do instead of what they said and told me here. And sometime weather you want to believe it or not it is the Truth and the truth SUCKS, Many ,, Many of people have come and gone from here that was looking for an answer for there life struggles and didn't get the answer they seek here and just moved on. No one I mean no one wants this,, Including ME, But this is the cards we are dealt and we have to play this hand to move on to the next game.

The whole problem with people coming to the TS section after coming from the CD side is this is REAL change here,, Not costume, Not play time, Not something you can come back from once you have took that step on the invisable bridge of medical transition. An there is no one here but maybe Anne1234 that was more stubborn than ME,, So if you want to get stroked and petted and your hair brushed back and told everything is going to be alright this is the wrong place.
These people here try and deter you from this Hell, Once you step into this world all is going to change forever, All you know or thought you knew will be stripped away and replaced with something totally new and strange because things are not what they seem to be here. WARNING WARNING This is a real Bad place for people not willing to commit , An denial is the number one thing in the whole Trans world, Once you get past denial the rest is down hill,, That one little baby word, DENIAL,

Can you look in the mirror everyday, Can you look at all of your family everyday, Can you look at your friends everyday, Can you look at work colleges everyday, Old school chums, Run into people you havent seen in years and be seen for who you are and go to the doctor and drug store and hair removal places and sit and wait all the while knowing that everyone that you come into contact with know you are in Transition and are changing your Gender? That is the hard truth here,, Come here on the Dark side if you want but also be prepared to meet the Devil and walk through Hell.

[Eringirl]

I am totally empathetic to your situation. I was there at one time as well. That is where your head and heart is...they are your feelings, I won't discount them. I have two amazing daughters, both grown up in their mid 20's, living their own lives. Relevant to your comments are the thoughts of my youngest. She is struggling somewhat with the transition and divorce. But the one biggest thing she struggles with is not knowing how I was feeling all those years when she was growing up. She is so very hurt that I delayed being happy and transitioning, to be a "dad" to her, that I was so unhappy because of not transitioning early because of her. She also feels betrayed/lied to as she feels that her whole life growing up was a lie.

We can all say that is not what we meant to have happen, or that our kids don't feel that way, but kids being kids, the first thing they do is blame themselves when stuff like this happens. I would do anything to take away that pain, and if could have not caused it in the first place, even better. knowing all of this, I may have transitioned sooner, who knows?

I am still their dad. In fact, they still call me dad. I am not their mother. They were raised to "respect their elders" so they have a really hard time calling me Erin. So if calling me "Dad" works for them, I am good with that. In fact my older daughter told one of her friends (who knows about me) when she asked her a question "You'll have to ask me dad, she can tell you." I am good with that. I am not stuck in the thoughts that a dad has to be male. I am still their dad, just in a different wrapper and my daughters still very much want and need what I bring to their lives regardless of what I look like.

But this is just me. YMMV.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Misty I personally think its totally ok to talk about trying to not transition, but I think alot of ts people that are "actively attempting" to not transition are in for a big surprise and need support... and that support includes realistic thoughts about real things ..much like the comments we and others share all the time..i am not going to apologize for sharing my observations and experience... and i'm not going to patronize people that have a huge problem on their hands with platitudes and hugs...although i like to think the hugs are available and can be helpful... but i'm not gonna say "its gonna be ok" when i'm hard pressed to see that happening anywhere in real life..

Alot of ts folk are pretty much in denial. Not neccessarily of their transsexuality but about what is going to happen as time drags on and on and on and on... and the man suit gets heavier and heavier and heavier...its just what happens..

my very specific advice on reflection to Robin is to make sure her feelings are that of "being a woman" , and that if so, she does everything in her power to present her female nature to the world even if circumstances don't currently allow her to consider transition...time will tell on that... and i'd advise her to drop the stereotypical and borderline misogynst thinking which is counter productive to her own well being....i personally know two body builder transsexuals that have a more "manly" physique than in Robin's avatar... they both tried to not transition, they both suffered for way too long, and they both successfully transitioned.

also, ever hear of Donna Rose?? she built up her body MORE after transition...

[Abby Kae]

Hi Robin,

I also feel stuck in a man suit. It kept getting heavier and heavier...

My own experience, from a parenting perspective, is that I wasn't as good a parent to my children as I wanted to be, while fighting my GD and depression. I truly believe that I will be a better provider, caretaker and protector to my family when I'm happier in my own skin.

I hope the best for you and your family, and that you're able to give them the life you want for them. If you are the best version of yourself without transition, then that is absolutely the right path for you. I just know that I wasn't/am not my best when I'm pretending to still be "him".

And if you discover later that you need to change things up again, just know that you'll have a safe space here to talk it through and get support. Some of us may seem a little cranky, but it comes from a good place: wanting you to be your best you possible.

[LeaP]

Fatherhood… Motherhood… Parenthood…

Such reactions! Can a father be a mother? A mother a father? A trans person be either?

Robin, you, Kaitlyn, and I all fathered children. Biological fact (I'm assuming we are all the biological fathers, anyway.) From what I know of Kaitlyn, she is an excellent father, particularly as a trans woman, I think, which is relevant to my points below. From your description, you either are an excellent father or aim to be one, Robin. I am, well, let's say not great at it. Heaven help the six children ...

Eh, we all have our issues, right? But is our trans status an issue, and if so, how so? I.e., does it interfere – at any level – with truly understanding a father's role? Or is it purely social and learned behavior anyway?

I can only answer for myself. I know, painfully so, how every one of my psychological issues have played out in marriage and rearing children. Having been in therapy now for years and on hormones for just over three years, I also have a good idea how different I would have been had I transitioned earlier in life. I'm not going to re-imagine results after the fact, though. My purpose is to raise the question about realities. If you think (real, true, etc.) fatherhood has a genetic/nature component, then if you are cross-sexed, you will either be unable to cover some aspects, unable to understand them, or blindly role playing to some extent. You can decide for yourself how significant this might be, or if it is at all.

The other aspect of reality is that it's really not true that an inner identity can be divorced from role. To a great extent if you live it, invest in it, practice it, work within, react within, and otherwise live in the framework of a role, your psyche and behaviors will be permanently affected. That doesn't invalidate having a cross-sexed core identity. But if it's never really actualized, it's more an unknown potential than anything else. Please note that I'm not talking about how keenly you might feel it or be conflicted by the situation.

So, are you playing a role as "father" (beyond the fact of insemination)? If you are, can you be a fully effective father? If not, what are the implications? If so, is transition irrelevant from this perspective anyway?

Oh, one last thing (chanelling Steve Jobs ...) The reality and limits of your wife's support for transition, alternatively the form support may take, are effectively unknown.

[MeowKitty]

?

Sooooooo you want a person who has literally put everything on the line to live authentically to be 'kinder' in a discussion forum about transitioning? What did she say that wasn't kind?

Does it occur to you or anyone for that matter that there are people who are on the verge of transition who might hate themselves a bit when they read comments like "I need to be a wonderful daddy and role model for my little girl, a strong protective husband for my wife"

Do you think these people don't love their kids, or their wives?

Why do people who have no intention of transitioning come in here and talk about NOT transitioning?

Hello Badtranny, I would like to answer some of your questions. I known the original comments Zooey said made my wife Robin upset and nearly to tears, she did apologize and I thank her for that since an apology goes a long way.
My wife is at the very beginning of her transition and still wants to be a amazing father to our young daughter(this is her choice), and the protection factor is important to her very character. Neither one of us grew up with a father, and it is important to her to give our young daughter (she's three) what we didn't have as children.
Thirdly I am talking from the perspective of Robins wife. I'm not some random person posting about Robin, she is my soul mate, I have been with her for 12 years and I know her better then she knows herself. I will do everything in my power to make her feel safe and loved. I never do anything half-assed, she knows she is in a safe place around me.
She is not a cross dresser, she is transgender,again at the beginning of her journey, and only searching answers to questions she has trouble working through with people that have already worked it out.
If you have any other questions feel free to ask, I am here to love and support everyone in this community as I know they are here for me. Big Huggs!

[Badtranny]

Hi Kitty,

You get big points from me for not being unnecessarily sensitive. Big girl pants and whatnot. Thanks for that.

This might be a productive discussion.

First of all, I never said Robin was a CD. I realize that people think I hate CD's but some of the coolest people I know are CD's. My enmity is reserved for closet cases who use my community when it is convenient for them, but shun us when it is not. I also don't have a problem with those that may be experiencing gender dysphoria but don't wish to transition, or maybe want to occupy some middle ground (like Isha). Again, it's the closeted behavior that is the problem for me. The overwhelming majority of the gals who populate this forum (and there must be a few dudes) are not closeted. We all came out at great risk to our families and careers. My career was profoundly impacted and yet here I am.

My roomie (not an active member here) had a wife and two kids. Her kids are here with us most weekends. I'm not a kid friendly person, but I'll be damned if I won't do what I can to support a sister who is dealing with the repercussions of living authentically. I've met several of the gals here on this forum who have recently come out at work and changed their names and I see over and over again how terrifying it is for them. Truly, coming out at work was an experience I'm glad I never have to do again. Transition and or coming out as gender variant takes an incredible amount of courage.

Can you understand what we've been through? Can you understand how sure we must be in who we are? How important it is to live an authentic life? Can you understand why I might take it personally when Robin makes a case for not transitioning? Can you comprehend the difference between Robin and my roommate? Or Zooey who is right now in the midst of some life altering activities?

This is the TS forum, so what does that mean? What separates TS from CD? This is not rhetorical, I am sincerely interested in your opinion on this. You strike me as someone who may have an interesting perspective.

[arbon]

I
I am just wondering how the rest of you deal with it?

I am not in a position to start hormone therapy and fully transition, I will when the time is right.
Until then, I will continue to live as 2 people sharing the same male body.

.

I did not have a successful way of dealing with it. Eventually I crashed and had to transition just to save my life.
Transitioning did create problems for my daughter and wife but it all worked itself out. Today I have a very amazing relationship with my daughter. I'm still her parent and there is a lot of love between us.

[LeaP]

Robin, I "dealt" with my issues (which may or may not be the same as yours) by getting progressively more depressed and angry as I got older. I came out to my oldest daughter recently. She is grown with children of her own. Asides from her supportive response, she said she had wondered all her life how two personality traits coexisted in me. Those are my tenderness toward, and understanding of her versus my rage and anger generally.

To be honest, I had never thought about the juxtaposition of those two in a trans context. But to her, it was a strikingly odd combination that she could not quite wrap her mind around. She wondered about its source and hearing that I was trans made perfect sense to her.

I'm not advocating for or against transition, by the way. Most that do so, do so in the face of concerns such as those about which you ask.

[RobinCA]

Zooey,
Thank you very much for your apology. It means the world to me. I am sorry if perhaps at this emotional time in my life, I am a bit oversensitive.
The real problem I had with what was said, was that to me it felt like my feelings, and that is what they are, were being discounted because I am not "fully transitioning yet" and taking hormones and changing my name, etec etc.
I never stated that I didnt want or am not going to transition fully, I said Due to circumstances, it cannot be done right now. Those circumstances could be many. i.e. money, health care, physical problems, whatever. Frankly those reasons are no ones business but my own.
All I was looking for was to perhaps talk with a few gals who went through my same thought patterns and feelings, whatever the eventual outcome, and just let me know if it was normal or not.
I appreciate your passion and candor, but it just struck me as very in-your-face reality, "deal with it". I was a liitle taken aback. I didnt think that in this community of understanding and like mindedness, I would have to dawn my personal armor.
Apparently I must gain a thicker skin if I am to make any more posts.
Hae a wonderful day, no harm done, look forward to speaking again.

[LeaP]

... it just struck me as very in-your-face reality, "deal with it". I was a liitle taken aback. I didnt think that in this community of understanding and like mindedness, I would have to dawn my personal armor.
Apparently I must gain a thicker skin if I am to make any more posts.
...

It's not a rough crowd - really. It's a rough road. Reality is a huge emphasis, and for good reason.

[RobinCA]

Badtranny,

Wow! First of all, no where in my post did it say that I had no intention of transitioning. I have every intention of that happening. I am just now starting this path of my life. I wanted to put some of my initial feelings out there to see if anyone else at this beginning of their transitional path had similiar thoughts or feelings. There is nothing that I want more than to fully transition. Im not going to just come out to every one I know, Take hormones, have female facial surgery, get rid of my adams apple, and have SRS in one day! I AM JUST STARTING!
I did not think that by opening my self up and putting my feelings out there, that I might be damaging someone elses feelings. If that is the case, I apologize.
My intentions were to gain a little knowledge and introspect on this new and scary path I am heading down.
I believe you may have taken my post entirely too literally.
I did not, nor will I ever "shame" anyone" for their own personal choices.
I also did not say anyone was crazy! WTF. I am sorry if I offended you, but I am not sorry for my feelings or thoughts.
I am a transgender person, not a CD. Do I have to fully transition in your opinion, before I can post here?

I was not making a case for not transitioning. I was asking for help dealing with my thoughts and emotions from people who have been there.

Please dont take this the wrong way. I am not trying to argue with you, or start a fight. I guess I was just expecting a touch more sensitivity to my emotions.
I respect the fact that you have had the courage to "go all the way". I am just now beginning to find that courage.

As far as my wife, "MeowKitty" goes, She is my rock and support in an ocean of uncertainty. I value her help, love, and direction, and am truly blessed to have her. She has a very interesting perspective, and would love to share and discuss it with anyone, including you. Make no mistake, she is the reason I am able to begin to walk this path in my life, and gives me all love and support she can.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I'm glad its not an argument.. it shouldn't be...

your updated posts have a very different vibe from the first one and i feel i understand you better...

my mantra is always to live day by day and try to focus on constructive things... i urge you to reconsider some of the notions of what a good father or dad is, and what a strong husband really is that you mentioned earlier..
like i said to me a good dad would proudly share HERSELF with her children and help them understand the true nature of tolerance and acceptance, and also role model the strength determination and courage required to change gender roles..

alot of times we throw up our own roadblocks and the internal dialog is kinda of like I'm transsexual//i am desperate to be a woman///i cant be a woman BECAUSE>..............(fill in the blanK)....
that's the non constructive thinking... and then to make it worse we "invest" in being male, we man up.... over and over i notice this
but the shame of it is the more you trap yourself the more you will feel "that feeling" of wearing the man suit and it getting heavier and heavier..

this is a stark reality... the more you invest in being male, the more it will weigh on you...
its like digging a hole for yourself and hoping to end up standing tall on the ground... the hole gets deeper, the ground is further away..

right now i know you feel that you simply must keep digging that hole...pls consider its very likely that someday you are going to find that you simply must get out of it.

so day to day try to focus on things that make you feel like yourself (a woman), see if you can just not dwell on all the reasons it cant happen and just try to exist as yourself stuck (for now) in your man suit...express your femaleness when you can and see what happens...

and yes, i'm a bundle of joy and roses, but personally i learned the hard way that i wasted so much of my energy fighting...

and i'm not saying transition or rush into anything, I'm saying take some time to get your head focused on being the best PERSON you can be while these gender feelings work out in your mind..

Your "Armani" comment rang a bell with me because a dear friend (6'3 and guns the size of texas) spent many years trying to go metrosexual and really get into a less macho male appearance despite the physicality and she ended up transitioning at 50 yrs old.... and she wears cowls and scarves over her shoulders to soften the guns..hehe

anyway... are you in therapy?