The disaster of coming out to the SO

[Shiny]

Yeah, I get it! I've been reading a lot of posts on how many say "come out--explain to your wife/girlfriend why you CD" and on and on and it will be alright. I don't buy it. Now, sometimes that works, and that's great! So is a world full of "rainbows and butterflies." I only wish that scenario would have happened in my case. But unfortunately, I fall into the "other" category that over 90% of us who do "come out" seem to experience. My SO didn't know of my "condition" but the more time we spent together, I don't know, the little things started surfacing--I guess.

She's a "cotton panty" "plain Jane" girl, which is problem one. I'd buy her lingerie, she wouldn't touch it. Expensive sheer vintage nylon stockings? With a garter belt!? NOT a chance! I admit I get sick of seeing the grungy slippers and sweat pants and shapeless sweat shirts but I enjoy the female shape and sure would like to see it once in a while--to admire. Anyway, the more I mentioned heels, and lingerie, and makeup and maybe mentioning to her to maybe get her hair done it somehow became too much. "Why don't you do it!" She'd chafe. "Why don't you wear all that stuff!?" And then the evolution of at least her thought: "do you wear women's stuff?" I mentioned I had from time to time and that was the NUKE! "Are you gay!? Was the next question. I admit that hit my male ego pretty hard especially since I was always a man around her. I got to thinking, gee, is she saying I am not enough man? That wasn't the problem. But once she figured out I dressed the relationship fell apart about as quick as a sugar cube hitting the hot coffee!!

Days went by and then weeks and although what relationship we had was not in total free fall I could tell she was looking at an exit plan. There was no "talking about it" anymore, no "DADT" deal. To her it was cut and run. Well, she'd made her plans and that was that. It wasn't long till she made arrangements with a female friend of hers and her things began being moved out. Try as I might in saying this wasn't a big deal if handled properly and in reality it wasn't something I had a "choice" in in the first place, but we could work it out--I was still the same great guy. No dice. It was then I got pissed!

A couple days before she moved out I endured another verbal assault. I let her have her rant and didn't respond until she was done. Then it was my turn. My SO is a very attractive woman with few shortcomings (aside from her mental attitude). But, one flaw I always overlooked was her legs. A tall girl, she has bird-like legs, spindly and with knobby-knees. I mean they aren't totally ghastly, but she does look better in slacks. I then turned the tables on her and fought back by saying: "...well, maybe if you had pretty legs like mine you wouldn't mind dressing up now and then in stockings and heels."

Well, I got another round of insults then told her I had no doubt my legs were far more "feminine" than hers were. She laughed and guffawed. I then got dressed and took a few leg-pictures to prove it! I showed her the one which by the way is now my avatar---she couldn't deny it because she watched me set up the picture by myself. She would not take the picture because she said it disgusted her. Anyway, I proved myself and when she saw the printed picture in 8x10 you could see the smoke coming out of her ears! I heard the whisper of the word "fag" as she left the room. Two days later she moved out and that was it.

So, I know people of "our type" probably will never change--matter of fact I believe the situation intensifies as time goes by, which isn't welcome by me anyway. But it's such a rare thing to ever find a woman who would possibly be into a CD relationship that the point is almost moot. I am at the age where any "discovery" wouldn't really make much difference now. Few friends, retired and If I don't want to associate with others I don't. So that's a lucky point. Anyway, being single and living alone now for the past several years is well, lonely, but I've come to terms with it and don't mind it at all anymore, matter of fact I prefer it! It's a freedom nearly without limit--eat what I want, when I want, watch TV shows I want, have a drink when I want, stay up late if I want. I've always been a live-and-let-live guy and only wish others felt and thought the same way. Hard to understand sometimes why most folks are so inflexible while others only get off on ridicule and putting others down!? But life goes on.

Shiny-

[Lorileah]

First, I'm sorry your marriage fell apart. But there are signs you post here where I can see part of why it did (and it isn't the dressing, I'm not buying that one tete e tete destroyed it all). You became angry when she didn't play by your rules. You also seem a little slow on the uptake that satin and silk wasn't her style. You kept buying it KNOWING she would not wear it. Then your reaction was to insult her? You know the part of her body you had to "dis" , she had no control over right? Then you add fuel to the fire by saying you look better? I would have left you in a heartbeat too. I don't care if it was anger on both your parts.

You chose her before you got married. You knew what her body type was, how magnanimous you allowed her your company with that flaw. Seems you had one too...you liked women's clothing. So perfection wasn't the rule in your house. But you KNEW before marriage about her, you didn't give her the same chance.

So you're angry, what I see here is that you were the one trying to make her fit your mold. You pressed and pressed and finally she broke, but not as you would have liked it.

I don't know where you got your 90% claim. It would be wrong even if you saw it somewhere. Marriages all have their speed bumps. 50% fail. Many if not most women would not end the marriage over crossdressing alone. Shakespeare said"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. " There is far more to your story we aren't getting.

But I will sympathize with you. I does hurt when someone won't accept you as you are. Like you trying to get her to dress in your ideal image.

[Jenniferathome]

...unfortunately, I fall into the "other" category that over 90% of us who do "come out" seem to experience. ...-

Crap statistic that exists only in your head. Reine posted a great survey, done scientifically, that offers a rather compelling argument against your internal belief. There is more to any marriage than cross dressing. If your foundation is solid, the relationship survives and grows. It is not rare. Just rare for you.

the study: http://www.sexologiaenincisex.com/ar...e%20doctor.pdf

[Isabella Ross]

But unfortunately, I fall into the "other" category that over 90% of us who do "come out" seem to experience. My SO didn't know of my "condition" but the more time we spent together, I don't know, the little things started surfacing--I guess. Shiny-

Sorry it didn't work out Shiny, but I'm with Lorileah here...your 90 percent claim is pure fabrication. And it's dangerous...what if your false statement convinces some people contemplating the reveal to back off, when they could in fact be married to an understanding woman who finds a way of accepting or at least compromising, leading to a more satisfying and blissful life for both of them? BTW, sounds like you are better off than living with that kind of bigotry anyhow...

[Tina_gm]

Sorry to hear. Yes, there are definitely women who will simply not want any part of it. 90%, no. probably not anywhere near that number. BUT- this again is an example of what can often happen with a late reveal. Had you told her early on, before marriage, before a lifetime commitment, you would have gotten the nope, no thanks, not for me from her and moved on. There are many women who really just do not want it in their lives, and that is fine. There are many more women who, when approached early on, will be able to deal with it with limitations. Transition or full time dressing will make the percentage of women go down substantially.

I have to agree with Lorileah too, that how her image was approached was likely a sore point. You were trying to change her to an image of what YOU wanted. That sounds hypocritical from the woman's standpoint because so often they will have issues with our dressing.... but that is more due to having our male image changed to a female image,, at least partially later on after the marriage. After your marriage had been going on for some time, you complained of or tried to mold her differently. Changing others to fit what we want generally does not go well, however or whatever the reasons be. Often too, when one of the parties let themselves go, that generally does not go over well either.

[TonyaV]

Shiny - I am sorry it did not work out for you. I don't want to hijack your thread, but I will tell you a little about my story. I have come out to my wife, and she knows my case is more than CD'ing. I have even confessed to her that hadn't been for her, I probably would have transitioned by now. She even met with my gender therapist once. But she doesn't approve. Paraphrasing her words "I married a man, I love you, and if this what you want or have to do, I support you, but I can't live with you if you transition." We are still together.
In your case, you problem with her is probably a little more than CD'ing. You called her your SO. How long have yo been together? Was there any talk of marriage?

[RADER]

I can relate to a point; My first wife ran also for the hills as soon as she found out
that I loved to wear girdles.
Now my second wife would buy me things to wear.
Lets hope you find a second wife like mine.
Rader

[OCCarly]

+1 what Rader said. I never crossdressed during my first marriage, but my first wife got grossed out by even the least little trace of feminine behavior on my part. I got yelled at once just for trimming my pubic hair into a neat triangle, never even mind shaving it. When she cheated on me and left me, I actually felt relieved, like I was finally able to act more like myself. If you are not compatible at the core, then you are not compatible. And why force yourself to be something you are not, just to stay married? Life is too short.

My wife now, I am totally out to. We shop together. Sometimes she asks for my female clothes if they look good on me. I've lost more cute and hard to find T shirts that way...sigh.

[Shiny]

I appreciate the feedback. But, I have tried many variations in the course of my life. Telling before getting serious--didn't work. Telling after she moved in maybe a year later---didn't work. I have heard where "how would we like it if our women started wearing only MAN clothes and stopped shaving legs and underarms and started being more manly?" I get that--I wouldn't like that either--can't stand hirsute women. Maybe that is why most women don't appreciate "feminine men" I get that too! But, look at "regular" women these days. Really look! They want the 50's lifestyle women used to enjoy with all the benefits of a home and car and spending money and being able to stay at home if possible but they won't reciprocate as in the old days.

My girl started out as a girly-girl. Hey, I love feminine women! But after a time I guess it's easier to follow the crowd and trends, but come on. She quit wearing makeup, and heck with the dresses---how about a nice blouse and women's slacks and feminine shoes even if they are flats now and then? Nope. It started on the weekends and I get that too. But soon it was a daily deal with no makeup, unkempt hair, old sneakers, sweat pants and usually, my old sweat shirts. I mean she did bathe often and did not grow out her body hair but it started to feel like I was living with another GUY! I did not force her to wear girly things! But I had a reasonable expectation if I brought her lingerie she might indulge now and then, geez! When she didn't like the things I bought I didn't complain, I simply quit buying her nice things----she at least did enjoy the flowers I bought though.

They say that you have to give 100% in a relationship. Well, I sure did. Problem is is that she figured that that 100% from me was all that was needed and that I was "lucky" to have her around. Most women don't dress anymore, they've become too macho. Most are slobs around the house, they won't cook and after a time they even push intimacy aside. Guess that's "today's woman." I made most of the money in the relationship, paid way more than my share of the bills because I am the "GUY" and ended up doing 90% of the cooking and housework and washing and cleaning. Where's my benefit? The fact that I dress when she asked about it, I couldn't lie. And after everything, everything I have done for her year after year even when I offered to only dress in my corner office-room of the house, that was unacceptable and I became repulsive. I figure that's her problem way more than mine. I am not a "bigot" and one of these days she's going to find out just what a little gem I was! All in all, well the dressing problem is MY fault--I guess I own that one. But, compared to her multitude of problems and narrow-mindedness I feel sorry for her. And my "legs" comment? I never made fun of her, I just got fed up one evening after taking another round of verbal gut-punches and told her my legs looked better. Stupid to do that? In retrospect, sure. Maybe I was trying to show that my CDing wasn't any big deal. She looked at me like a different person when there I was standing in front of her the same guy she'd know all along. Too bad she couldn't see that or even try to understand. Well, I did all I could.

You folks say that I would be surprised how many women would be sympathetic at least. Well, I have lost several women due to my condition because they refused to deal with it. And this latest departure has proved to be more of the same. That's just the way it is. I have talked to hundreds of women over the years and most find the situation repulsive/intolerable in any variation. I've heard conversations women were having across a room and when the CD subject arrives it's all titters, guffaws and scoffs. I have never experienced any "understanding" nor have I ever personally met any man who has. Sorry folks---I have to call it as I see it. I could be wrong, but I just don't believe that. And my 90%? Well I'm going by medical researched findings I have studied in college while majoring in psychology. They may be off on their findings because they lump the CD in with the 10% they feel don't make the bell-curve of human, societal normalcy. Matter of fact, as a sub set many findings support the claim that for a woman to accept or encourage a man in feminine mode, well, she must be a lesbian, that is where they draw their information from---that 10%. These are published facts if you look at AMA journals or the DSM IV of psy-evaluation. It's a finite facet of the subset--therefore---if that whole 10% section accepted my condition that would be amazing but most likely my original 90% of un-acceptance would be closer to 97%! I was just sticking with the 90% figure using the whole subset.

I am sorry if I have hurt any feelings. But you must admit, the folks in here would naturally have a most positive take on the CD experience. I try to be optimistic and I'd like to believe that as well, but in the real world? Nope--I don't see it.

Peace and love--

Shiny-

[MissDanielle]

So sorry to hear that your marriage didn't work out.

[Amy Lynn3]

Shiny, sorry to hear about all the bad luck with women. Wish I had the answers to this crossdressing issue and how women deal or don't deal with it. I do know one answer does not fit everyone.

The best to you my friend and Merry Christmas,
Amy

[Sky]

I don't have any reliable stat on the much abused issue of "accepting spouses" and I think your 90% is probably overpessimistic, but I take the more optimistic views -expressed in multiple posts all over the forum- with a full salt shaker. Anyway, I have to say I don't agree with your overall approach. Fighting your ex wife over who has the hottest legs? Really??? You say she moved out within two days, I say you're lucky she did not shot you during those days. Same about who made the most money in the relationship. What does that have to do with crossdressing acceptance? Nobody has the right to demand automatic acceptance from your wife. Actually, they -as well as male spouses of course- have the right to walk away just for the heck of it -even if you never even got close to a pair of stockings.

[Lauri K]

Sorry to hear about the marriage hitting the rocks, but I sympathize with you.

If my wife made a daily habit of no makeup, unkempt hair, old sneakers, sweat pants I would help her out the door.

I know that sounds mean, but so be it.

I can tell you that there are many women out there that would love to be showered with feminine gifts and would love a man to the ends of the earth for the attention to details, also I find more and more women are wanting feminine guys like us in their life's......yes that's right trust me on that.......... I have gotten more attention from ladies now than I ever have had. Amazing I say to myself.

Good luck and hang in there, it gets better.

[Meghan4now]

Shiny,

I am sorry to read of your situation. Right now you are hurt and angry. It will take time to move past that, and that's ok. But never give up hope, and don't let your anger or your hurt define you. Right now you see the world through your pain, and feel betrayed, perhaps by everyone. I assure you, the sun will rise tomorrow. There are those that love you. And you will be happy again if you allow yourself. Percentages and math matter very little while you are in this season, don't even focus on that.

You'll be in my prayers tonight.

[ReineD]

I'm sorry that your relationship didn't work out. I understand if you feel hurt or angry and it makes sense that in the final days of a relationship meltdown, people tend to see the worst in each other.

But I have to say, I'm 100% supportive of the CDing and if my SO had ever bought me things (repeatedly) that I didn't want to wear ... if he wanted me to present in a way that I don't see as "being me", I would feel as if he didn't love me for me, but instead for some ideal that wasn't me. I don't want to be in a relationship like that. Also, if my SO ever gave hints that he thought he was sexier, or prettier, or had sexier or prettier body parts than me, I think this would be a deal breaker - not because I'd be jealous or feel as if my femininity was threatened, but because relationships aren't supposed to be a competition. I'm older now, but in my younger days I turned a few heads. NEVER would I have even thought of telling a female friend who didn't have my advantages that I thought I was prettier or sexier than her, or that my legs were nicer. Not even if I was angry with her, it's just not done!

This may not be the best time to tell you these things because you're still hurting, but please try to remember them for your next relationship.

[LeslieSD]

Come on, girls. Give her a little slack. She just had a bitter breakup and needed a place to rant. Yeah, the 90% number is not scientific, but that is not the point. Who of us hasn't exaggerated in expression when we are in frustration? "Every time I changed the lane, the lane I changed into slows down"? That is a 100% statement that is never scientifically proven (but sure feel like it).

Take it easy, Shiny. Cheer up, dress up and go out see a movie or do something. Enjoy your new freedom. You might meet someone who is your type.

[TrishaTX]

i wont comment on the 90% issue but what I will say is there is a population that is open to allot especially as we get older. Keep hunting you will find someone.To me in reading your notes , you guys feel out of love a long time ago...

[MelanieAnne]

I'm always amazed at the lengths single women go to, with their sexy clothes and makup, and how quickly they regress into the frumpy, comfortable look after the wedding. Just telling it like it is. I also used to buy my wife sexy lingerie, and she might wear it once if I was lucky. Then it died a slow death in the bottom of her underwear drawer.

Me: What ever happened to that black teddy I got you?
Her: I've got it.
Me: Why don't you wear it some time?
Her: Why does it always have to be a big deal? Can't we just get in bed and "do it"!

[sometimes_miss]

First, so sorry Shiny that you fell into the trap that so many of us did. We want so much to believe that we will be accepted that we convince ourselves of it, then, come here and get all the talk of the few wonderful experiences where a wife accepts her crossdresser husband with open arms, buying him dresses, doing his make up, etc.. But it usually doesn't work out that way. The so called Scientific survey mentioned was anything but random; rather, as a direct quote from the study, "This volunteer nonrandom sample was acquired from throughout the United States by announcements at transvestite club meetings, conventions of cross-dressers, and in magazines and newsletters for cross-dressers". So much for that being an accurate sample of crossdressers. Again, the pink fog becomes thicker the more you stay on this forum. Best to keep your feet on solid, non crossdressing ground when forming an opinion. Try asking the ladies on plenty of fish forums to see how many women REALLY like crossdressers for mates; you're not going to find more than a few (and I really mean few, less than five), out of the millions on that dating site.

I'm always amazed at the lengths single women go to, with their sexy clothes and makup, and how quickly they regress into the frumpy, comfortable look after the wedding.

It all goes into the 'catch a guy' mentality. Remember, a marriage license is for a financial partnership, no mention of sex, and if you haven't noticed, when a marriage parts, the woman pretty much gets the better end of the deal the vast majority of the time. Over and over you see single women dieting, especially before the wedding. Then....it's all bets off. Sam Kinison said it best: They quietly gain five to seven pounds a year, until you feel like you married their mom. Wardrobe and hairstyles? It often quickly deteriorates into whatever's convenient and comfy, not what looks good; after all, what's the point? They've got their meal ticket, and legally you can't have sex with anyone else for the rest of your life. Fashion? Sadly, eventually the closest you will get to that is sneakers that match her old, loose sweats. Marriage makes no sense financially (especially tax wise) unless: 1. You're interested in raising kids, or 2. plan on having your wife never work.
I won't again address the pink fog notion that there are plenty of women out there actively interested in dating crossdressers because despite all the talk about it, no one has yet to show that they exist in more than a few handful of numbers on the whole planet. There is absolutely no evidence of any such thing; if there were, somebody would be making money off of it, just like the regular dating world. But no such straight girl/crossdresser dating situation/website/club/bar exists. The one 'dateacrossdresser' site is inhabited by 99.99% men who list themselves as female, so even if there were GG's there, there would be no way to find them; and with the one or two GG's (if they are women) either already dating someone or a shill for the site to get people to pay for the monthly membership.

there is a population that is open to allot especially as we get older.

this is the one saving grace. The older we get, the less emphasis there is on sexual appeal, and more on companionship instead. And, with age the game changes; there are far more women than men, and as their husbands die off, some women are more willing to be more flexible in who they will accept as a mate. But young women? Uhhh, not so much. Until about 50, women still think it's the same market as when they were young and hot, where they could pick and choose among plenty of young horny studs (who would do and pay anything in the hopes of 'getting lucky') to date.

[MelanieAnne]

Married once, for 17 years. Single for the past 35 years! Learned my lesson the first time!
35 years in the singles scene, and I've seen too many people get married and divorced over and over.

[Amanda M]

For me, Lorileah said it all. Sorry, OP that things have gone badly for you - but I do not see much love coming from you. Or even tolerance of women in general.

[ReineD]

I'm always amazed at the lengths single women go to, with their sexy clothes and makup, and how quickly they regress into the frumpy, comfortable look after the wedding.

I can't help commenting on this.

The single women you know or knew ... you saw them dressed nicely in social circumstances, right? At clubs, restaurants, parties, etc? But did you ever consider what these chic single women wear at home when alone or when they're just hanging out with girlfriends at each other's houses? Probably sweats and Tshirts with no makeup, like everyone else.

[Kate T]

So many stereotypes, so little time to respond.

To everyone on this thread who has expressed otherwise, women generally and your partners in particular are not mannequins or toys to dress up as you please. Go and buy a doll if you want a mindless toy that does exactly what you want.

You all want to know why women don't wear the lingerie you buy them? Because every time they wear it you act like they owe it to you to have sex. They can never wear it and just feel good about themselves without having to make you happy. Think about it.

[PaulaQ]

I only wish that scenario would have happened in my case. But unfortunately, I fall into the "other" category that over 90% of us who do "come out" seem to experience.

So let me start out by saying that I am really sorry about your relationship. I mean that. My marriage basically ended the day I came out to my wife. But I would like to point out a few things for you to think about. I'm not trying to say anything hurtful to you, just give you some things to think about. I also know that some of the things you said were said because you are hurting.

She's a "cotton panty" "plain Jane" girl, which is problem one. I'd buy her lingerie, she wouldn't touch it. Expensive sheer vintage nylon stockings? With a garter belt!? NOT a chance!

Why is it a problem she is a "plain Jane" girl, to use your words? Honey, do you not see the inconsistency in your attitude. You want her to be OK with you wearing women's clothing - in other words, just let you be yourself. But you want her to wear clothing she obviously isn't comfortable wearing. Why would you expect anything other than hostility? Most women cis or trans, wouldn't be comfortable wearing the stuff you picked for her. I'd do it for certain occasions, but I'm high femme, and fetishy. Not every woman is, and there is nothing wrong with the way your SO presents herself. She is who she is hon. How can you ask for acceptance if you aren't willing to give it yourself?

Anyway, the more I mentioned heels, and lingerie, and makeup and maybe mentioning to her to maybe get her hair done it somehow became too much. "Why don't you do it!" She'd chafe.

First off, makeup, nails, and getting her hair done require a fair amount of time, and also some expense. For many women who might like to do these things, though, the big problem is time. And again, many women do not care for all of this stuff. They are happy wearing jeans and a cute top, minimal / no makeup, and a hairstyle that requires minimal maintenance. A highly feminine presentation just doesn't feel right to many women. There's nothing wrong with that!

"Why don't you wear all that stuff!?" And then the evolution of at least her thought: "do you wear women's stuff?" I mentioned I had from time to time and that was the NUKE! "Are you gay!? Was the next question. I admit that hit my male ego pretty hard especially since I was always a man around her. I got to thinking, gee, is she saying I am not enough man? That wasn't the problem.

My SO is a very attractive woman with few shortcomings (aside from her mental attitude). But, one flaw I always overlooked was her legs. A tall girl, she has bird-like legs, spindly and with knobby-knees. I mean they aren't totally ghastly, but she does look better in slacks. I then turned the tables on her and fought back by saying: "...well, maybe if you had pretty legs like mine you wouldn't mind dressing up now and then in stockings and heels."

I then got dressed and took a few leg-pictures to prove it! I showed her the one which by the way is now my avatar---she couldn't deny it because she watched me set up the picture by myself. She would not take the picture because she said it disgusted her. Anyway, I proved myself and when she saw the printed picture in 8x10 you could see the smoke coming out of her ears!

So she insulted your manhood (actually she didn't - I know some exceedingly masculine gay men. They are frigging lumber jacks. She actually insulted your sexual orientation, which was uncalled for), and you thought it would help the situation to turn around and insult her femininity one last time? You'd already insulted her femininity many other times by suggesting she change how she presented herself in the most insulting and patronizing way possible.

A feminine man, a CD, a trans woman can really throw a cisgender woman SO for a loop for a number of reasons. For one thing, many people define themselves relative to others. If YOU were supposed to be the man, it meant SHE was supposed to be the woman, and she defined herself in part that way in all likelihood, even if unconsciously. Telling her to dress more femme, particularly in highly sexualized clothing like lingerie and vintage stockings, probably undermined her self-esteem. Those things also likely triggered several other things that women feel. For instance, most women are pretty self-conscious about their bodies. Clothing like the stuff you suggested requires someone with a GREAT DEAL of confidence to pull them off. Having the right body type helps, but honestly, it's the attitude more than anything else that allows for it, and honey, this cruel old world does an excellent job of making sure that few women indeed have the confidence to wear stuff like that - it grinds us down. The standards of beauty that women are held to are completely unrealistic - yet we have image after photo-shopped image shoved down our throats until it's a wonder that we don't all just give up, and wear an old potato sack! It is especially nasty the way you objectify her - why should she want to do those things for you, especially if you are only going to stare at other women you think look better? On top of that, women are held up to ridiculous double standards. Dress down? You're a frump. Dress too femininely? You're a bimbo. Finding the balance is basically impossible because, quite simply, we aren't supposed to win. Lots of women just give up - it's a lot of time, money, and effort that they just don't feel good about, enjoy, nor really identify with. On top of everything else, it's just NOT who they are. (And it's also an example of male privilege - men don't have to do 10% of the things women do to really dress up, and believe me, that is a big privilege.)

And what you need to understand is that shaming her as you did is no more cool than the way she responded to you. But consider this - you started it!

Again, I'm really sorry about what happened to you. I mean that sincerely. But the way you came out to her, while you were insulting her femininity, and then following it up with "... and I can do it better than you!" is pretty much a sure fire way to end a relationship.

Look, I'm trans, and while I'm sympathetic to the way you feel, but if you'd said some of that stuff to me, I'd have unloaded on you too, and probably slapped your face. Just about any self-respecting woman would. With a well worded and planned coming out speech, I'd guess 40-50% or so of CD relationships fail because the SO can't handle the idea of being with a feminine man. You don't really get to 90% failure until you start talking transition, identifying as a woman, or the point where it really gets real - hormones. But I'd be willing to bet that 90% of the women in the US would react quite negatively to the way you treated her - i.e. yelling at you, slapping your face, and moving out.

I've always been a live-and-let-live guy and only wish others felt and thought the same way. Hard to understand sometimes why most folks are so inflexible while others only get off on ridicule and putting others down!?

Oh my god, can you not see the irony in what you write here? You are apparently anything but a flexible, live-and-let-live guy, and you seemed to enjoy putting her down. :O If you were a live and let live guy, you'd be like "well, she doesn't dress all that femme, but I love her, sweatpants, golf visor, crocs and all - wouldn't change a thing about her! She lets me be me, and I'll love her forever for it!"

I'm really sorry this comes off as harsh. I know it does, and I really don't mean for it to, but you really need to think about your attitudes about women, hon. You are not going to have a lot of success thinking the way you are thinking.

I'm always amazed at the lengths single women go to, with their sexy clothes and makup, and how quickly they regress into the frumpy, comfortable look after the wedding.

How much work do you put into your male presentation? How much do most men put into it after they are married? (And men get off so easy and cheap on this, and yet so many of them dress so badly!) People, in general, tend to let themselves go a bit when they are in a relationship. Why? Because they got somebody and don't need to dress to attract someone. Sometimes this is laziness, but for women, you have to understand that if we go out dressed to attract attention from men, we're liable to get it. This is often a really big hassle at the time, and it's an especially unpleasant experience if our SO becomes jealous because of it.

Also, this:

You all want to know why women don't wear the lingerie you buy them? Because every time they wear it you act like they owe it to you to have sex. They can never wear it and just feel good about themselves without having to make you happy. Think about it.

[Nikki Elle]

Sorry to hear about the situation and some of us get you wanted to vent! So be it.... we don't have to agree or disagree right now.

Now to the rest - who have torn the thread apart, castigating him over his statements and comments, let him hurt and vent. Don't take him to task over a single post with some comments you don't agree with or stereotypes that raise your dander. The post didn't say pick me apart, if you have issues with the statements overall (not individually) start another thread please.