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Thread: Why lie to your SO/wife?

  1. #101
    Junior Member Kimberley May's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by char GG View Post
    @Kimberley May


    Is this a true statement or your spin on your wife's clothing? Does she buy her clothes in the ladies or men's section of a store? Is jeans only "men's clothing"?

    It is annoying to see this statement reiterated over and over. Most women don't buy "men's" clothes! This is not the 1920's.

    Oh, by the way, if the post was was written by a women and she said "despite my husband wearing women's clothing from head to toe" bla bla bla; you wouldn't like!
    I wasn't lying. My "girlfriend" does buy and wear mens clothes, because she says she finds them more comfortable, and more convenient such as mens jeans has deeper pockets. Mens jumpers are thicker and warmer, etc. She still wears women's underwear however. Only last week we were looking around in a mens only clothes store for a new jacket for her. Nobody gives her bother in the street over it.

    And yet she would find it too weird if she knew about my CDing. It really is one rule for one and another for the other.
    Last edited by Kimberley May; 01-31-2016 at 02:34 PM.
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  2. #102
    Bad Influence mechamoose's Avatar
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    The personal attacks about courage and truth need to stop. It isn't productive.

    'Approaches' to solving our collective problem are fair game. Name calling benefits no one.

    Please, this is a discussion/debate. (Ever been on a true debating team?? You have to defend ideas you don't believe. Mind, not gut.) Nobody here has the 'right' answer. As loud and flagrant as I am, I don't believe *I* have the right answer. I'm just vehement.

    To contribute to the idea... my wife wears men's clothing at home every day. It is loose and 'comfy'. when she goes to work she does all female clothing.

    Anybody else see associations to us there?

    "If you need to raise your voice, you have lost the argument"

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  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lori Kurtz View Post
    For me, crossdressing was very much akin to cheating on my wife. It was a sexual activity that took energy away from my relationship with her; it gave me sexual pleasure at her expense, without her having the opportunity to understand what was (and was not) going on between the two of us. There is so much diversity in what the experience of crossdressing means, that our discussion is not well served by universalizing anyone's individual experience. I certainly wouldn't reject anyone's assertion that he/she engages in crossdressing in a way that is not destructive to the honesty that a good marriage requires--for some, the crossdressing, even though secret, might be perfectly harmless. But I know from experience that secret crossdressing can definitely be harmful to a marriage, because I know that my secret life was harmful to my marriage long before my wife discovered the truth and decided to end the marriage.
    This was more to my point about comparing it to being the same as an affair. Everything is fine and dandy when its all in your head and you keep it there but maybe with progression you start buying things to suit your needs such as under garments then wigs, shoes etc... Then one day you get made over from head to toe and BAM a 3rd person in the relationship is born. She is now come from fantasy to life and this new girl can get you pretty darn high, she can probably satisfy you pretty darn good and theres difference between it and other normal, hobby activities such as fishing, bowling or hanging with the dudes!
    Last edited by Launa; 01-31-2016 at 03:40 PM.

  4. #104
    Member TaraGrace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelaYVR View Post
    So we can all rest assured that those throwing stones have thoroughly rid their lives of anything questionable whatsoever, right?
    Hey, I did tell my wife and yeah it worked out great for me. Yet I have enough experience to know those who like to crow the loudest about how chaste and pure they are, are the people with the biggest collections of skeletons in the closet.
    Angela, good point. This one really made my mind spin a bit I admit..
    So here's what I thought of.. being human means making mistakes, we do.
    I can honestly say I've been evaluating myself for the last 20 years each couple of months, who am I, do I like myself, what can I improve. (something I learned from a sales trainer that was just a little more 'mentor' like then all other trainers I had since). So no I did not rid myself of anything questionable (it's impossible), but yes I still would post my opinion.

    A thought in return though.. as yours was nice to think on

    It would be a right mess if we've start "boo you wife cheater" in threads that have nothing to do with that topic, right?
    This is a forum to share thoughts, particular threads have conflicted opinions, should we not give them?
    I mean, I hang out in the photo section too, but I would be once facebook and not here if it was all about "dig your new boots" alone..

    x Tara

  5. #105
    Fashionista VeronicaMoonlit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcelle View Post
    Yes . . . it must be lonely living among the perfect beings of the universe.
    Nobody is saying they are perfect, just that telling leads to better outcomes than not-telling. Lets do a little exercise here. Think of yourself as a Corporal...and I'm the Chief Warrant Officer calling you on the carpet because you lack long-term experience with the online transcommunity. Which is a gentle way of saying: you're still a noob. Really, I hated saying that, but I had to. I am very surprised you have said the things you have. In my head I was going: "WHAT is Marcelle saying! Can't she see the patterns of behavior and how it works out? She's enabling the not-telling which leads to bad outcomes!"

    We all make decision in life and guess what . . . they are ours to make not anyone else's'.
    But in the case of "this thing of ours of varying kinds", any decisions affect others, including the one to not-tell. That decision takes away informed choice from the SO. It's basically taking AWAY a decision from them.

    So for those trying to shame others into your way of thinking, how will you feel should someone take your advice, it goes bad and that person does something drastic to themselves or those around them.
    Lets look at the issue simply in frankly. Which decision in telling has better outcomes:

    1. Telling before the relationship starts/at the beginning
    2. Telling After some time (years) have passed
    3. Being found out when the stash is found.

    We all know #1 is the most optimal path with the best outcomes, failing that, #2. But #3 is obviously the worst. These "patterns" have been seen OVER AND OVER on these boards for YEARS and in other places in the online transcommunity for YEARS before that. Of course, you aren't aware of that, because you are a noob.

    There are PATTERNS to "this thing of ours of varying kinds" none of this is new. THIS discussion has happened before, many many times. None of us are special snowflakes, there are PATTERNS. The "upper class CD bankrolling a pink fog fueled transition at retirement", "the canadian CD slip sliding into a transition", "the trannier-than-thou HBSers", "the Tea Party Crossdressers", "the masks and bodysuit crowd", "the little girl crossdressers", "the ones who take pictures in the exact same pose and position, over and over"....I've seen itall before, many many years ago.

    Yes, you can argue the SO might find out eventually or perhaps she/he will not.
    Really? After all the times we have seen the "the wife found my stash" threads....you're going to say that?

    If the person can manage it, hurts nobody (it is just clothes right?)
    Piffle, you more than most know that it most certainly is NOT just about the clothes for some people.

    what difference does it make if they like to dress pretty from time to time?
    Nothing, but think about the logistics. If they don't know, you have to hide, and the logistics of dressing can get silly. finding places to hide stuff, figuring out any mailed packages, hiding receipts, making explanations for withdrawals/store debits from the bank account, making an explanation for the traces of makeup, etc etc. And always worrying if the wife will come home early.

    But telling removes those logistical issues doesn't. It makes the crossdressing less stressful, doesn't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by mikell View Post
    but why stop at the mrs. why not your lawyer, doctor, drinking buddies........."loud and proud" righteousness for all !!!! right.
    That's a straw argument there, because more than anyone else, the wife DESERVES to know. The relationship with one's wife/so/immediate family is different from those others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kimberley May View Post
    Well, I've decided not to tell my girlfriend. We kinda touched on the subject last night and she suggested she finds it too odd for a guy to wear women's clothes
    Why didn't you just be direct and "have the talk" and solve the problem in the first place rather than "hint" or "beat around the bush"?

    So in my case it's more on a need to know basis.
    Read what I wrote above about deserving to know.

    as while we are not living together I will continue with my secret double identity, and if/when we decide to move in together like a proper couple then I will purge and give it all up.
    THAT is not a long term solution, but you don't know that because, like Marcelle, you're a noob. Kimberley...that doesn't work. You may think it will, but it doesn't. We've seen it over and over again. "I wanted to get married so I purged and tried to give it up but the urges were still there and they got stronger so I started again." I'm telling you directly, if you purge, you're being VERY foolish.

    So she doesn't need to know, and what she doesn't need to know can't hurt her.
    You just made a decision FOR her, denying her choice in the matter. So what happens when your purge fails, as it always does. You're stuck with someone you "think" will have an issue with it. That's one of the dumbest things you could ever do. Instead of purging and repressing, why not find someone who DOESN"T have a problem with it in the first place. That's a win-win situation for everyone.

    It would be senseless to damage a good relationship over a small kink I occasionally dabbled with which I'm able to give up anyway.
    A small kink, that you've dabbled in...since you were in your TEENS! What you're doing right now is lying to yourself to make yourself feel better about the decision you're making to give it up and you know it. That, we've also seen before MANY MANY times. "I can give it up, it's just a kink." And then you know what happens....the purge fails.

    Besides, I will compensate a little and find any mens silk/satin nightwear, and still try grow my hair long.
    If it's just a "kink", why grow your hair long? We both know why...it's MORE than a kink. And wouldn't you rather not have to compensate? Why settle for a future of "My wife found my stash", when you could have soemthing better?

    Veronica
    If you believe in it, makeup has a magic all it's own -- Sooner or Later (TV movie)
    We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be?- Marianne Williamson
    Have I also not said that "This Thing of Ours" makes some of us a bit "Barefoot in the Head"? Well, it does.

  6. #106
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    i understand why many of you keep this a secret. But as somebody who had to leave their SO because he would not confess even when caught, it can really damage your relationship the longer you wait. Your SO deserves to know all of you, and if they accept it/or want to learn to accept it, then you know you're with the right person. If not, then at least you don't have to live a double life and you can find somebody else who loves all of you and everything you do.
    I just have a question for those who lie about or hide it.. Do you feel guilty for hiding something so significant in your life from somebody that loves and trusts you? I only ask because now that my boyfriend has come clean, I'm still feeling the betrayal of being lied to for months and made out to be crazy for "accusing" him of crossdressing. It makes me wonder what else he could lie to me about and if he ever felt bad about lying in the first place. I'm coming into this pretty late, so sorry for that.

  7. #107
    Junior Member Kimberley May's Avatar
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    @VeronicaMoonlit

    Please quit dictating to me how I actually think, like you know my mind better than I know it myself. You don't know me, my mind, my situation, my girlfriend and how she thinks, or my life at all. Stop assuming that everyone's life is just like your own, it isn't. I am not in denial, and yes for me it is a kink. I do not want to be a woman for real, you might do but I don't. For me, it is just a kink and a comfort while I don't have a female partner living here. Yes growing my hair long is another lil' kink for me. Sorry if that personally offends you.

    The long hair will become more masculine style anyway when I'm with her and out and about. Please don't try dictate to me that I'm wrong again, because you are about me. Maybe you will take personal offence at my reasons conflicting with your own reasons. Personally I don't care if you do, that's your deal not mine.

    If I tell her and she reacts badly because I didn't tell her when we first met, then I'm selfish. But if I don't tell her and quit it to protect her and our relationship even if I can live without it, then I'm somehow in denial and still lying to her. I can't win. Why should I risk destroying my whole relationship and lose her, just for the cause and because it worked for you so everyone should do the same even if it doesn't work for them? Women don't fall at my feet everyday and I feel lucky to have her. She's more important to me than my clothes addiction (shock horror), a small addiction when added together over the years only stretch to a few months, mostly these last few months. I've quite comfortably lived without it most of my life, for me it's just a bit of femme role play. If she was happy then it would just stay between us, otherwise I'll just find a new harmless lil' kink with her to keep us entertained (and she has a few).

    Stop assuming that one size fits all, that everyone is just like you. They ain't.
    Last edited by Kimberley May; 02-01-2016 at 05:00 AM.
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  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by VeronicaMoonlit View Post
    Nobody is saying they are perfect . . .
    Says the person looking down their nose at those who don't choose her path . . . ah perfection is a lonely place is it not?

    So you have are completely honest in all aspects of your life? Out to your family and friends, the world writ large? Before you ask . . . yes I am, my wife, my work, my life (I am TS)

    Look . . . I am not saying don't tell, I am just letting others here know that this is no easy road to travel and by all means espouse the benefits of telling from your own experience but don't pretend to know the mindset and situation of everyone here. This is hard enough for some who are struggling dealing with a very confusing thing and you all should know better . . . tossing around words like liars, cowards, shame, guilt and whatnot does nobody any good. Try seeing it from the perspective of the person who is struggling . . . you have all been there and should empathize. Then provide guidance, not outright direction like the moral guardians of all that is good.

    Marcelle
    Last edited by Marcelle; 02-01-2016 at 05:57 AM.

  9. #109
    Junior Member Kimberley May's Avatar
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    Exactly Marcelle. Just because he thinks it's worth the risk himself to lose his entire family and be alone in it forever even though it worked out well for him, it doesn't mean that everyone should risk the same. Besides his reasons for dressing are likely entirely different to mine. As you say, not everybody is the same and has the same situation, it's extremely arrogant to assume so, and also arrogant to believe that because it turned out fine for him then everyone should follow his lead and come out even if it destroys their marriage, family relations and life, even if it is just a nice kink fetish.

    I won't let it cloud my judgment and just come out regardless. I would be very foolish to.

    Update:
    If I ever do come out to my SO, it will only be to her and as a small private sexual fetish only. She tells me that she has a wardrobe of fetish clothes herself, so she might understand. I'll offer to try on some of her fetish stuff one day when she brings some round, like her skimpy sexy original Star Trek mini dress for instance and she how she responds I think

    But I also have to bear in mind that she has an 8yo daughter if we move in together, plus her brother might eventually be living with us. Being CD is not simply straightforward.
    Last edited by Kimberley May; 02-01-2016 at 05:42 AM. Reason: Update
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  10. #110
    Martini Girl Katey888's Avatar
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    Well said Marcelle and Kimberley...

    I was pondering on this thread overnight and what struck me is how much preaching goes on here under the pretext of support. This sort of sanctimonious pontification is NOT support: it's thinly-veiled imperiousness that follows the same pattern - "you've done something wrong that conflicts with my values so I'm telling you the right dogma to follow because my values are the only ones that matter..."

    Why do so many of you assume that personal values are absolute and homogeneous when clearly that is far from reality? Look around at the behaviour of your politicians, public figures, commercial leaders, friends, anyone! - if you need examples of how diverse 'truth' and 'honesty' can be interpreted.

    Your values are not my values and your opinions of morals are just that: your opinions, with no more moral weight than any individual that posts here.

    Your telling outcomes...
    Quote Originally Posted by VeronicaMoonlit View Post
    1. Telling before the relationship starts/at the beginning
    2. Telling After some time (years) have passed
    3. Being found out when the stash is found.
    Well, 3 is clearly not telling, so why not add:
    4. Never being found out and never having to tell

    Again, why do you believe the contrary and ignore what is obviously real: that some people go their entire lives with never being outed..? This forum is NOT representative of the entire CD community - there are much bigger and more online communities that relate to the fetish and sexual side of this behaviour than we represent. This community is skewed - most of the time in a positive, thinking sense - but occasionally the preachy side comes out and I can't help but think that there's a touch of the "Well I'm out so everyone has to be out.." I've seen it so many times and because there are so few of us that are willing to bear the moral outrage and calls of 'liar', 'coward', blah, blah... the pressure to believe that outing is inevitable builds on those who are not. That's not supportive - it's dogmatic and one-dimensional thinking.

    Relationships are built on many different levels with different emphases for different people - anyone that believes otherwise is so myopic about their own experience, quite frankly, for that opinion to be worth little to anyone else.

    Kimberley: Do what you want to do and what feels right for you - this place is not the universal arbiter of what is good and bad in relationships. For one thing all of us have something weird going on just to be here, right? And some of us are really struggling with something significant in the gender sense... While we might all appreciate a little of what you're going through, in other ways this place would the last on earth I'd take advice from...

    Katey x
    "Put some lipstick on - Perfume your neck and slip your high heels on
    Rinse and curl your hair - Loosen your hips, and get a dress to wear"
    Stefani Germanotta

  11. #111
    its important mykell's Avatar
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    @veronica moonlit, if your going to quote me use my original post, not pieces you dissected from a members response from my original....youd make a shrewd politico, dissecting just the parts of posts you need to fit your view....misdirection thats a straw argument.... immediate family was included in my original post....


    Quote Originally Posted by mikell View Post
    when you join here just by hitting the “complete registration" button to join takes courage !!!

    comparing a crossdresser to an affair, coward and liar ????

    lay out all your fears and inhibitions for the group to have at ( will you tell us next that you in fact turn water into wine, walk across crossdresser pond while it is not in a frozen state).....seems some moral compasses are tweaked up to 150%

    those who told your wife, commendable, but look someone in the eye and judge them, a coward does it through a keyboard !!!!

    does your boss know
    does your neighbor know,
    does your mom and dad know,
    does you priest know,
    does your drinking buddy know,
    does your lawyer know,
    does your doctor know,
    does society know,

    why not what are you a coward !!!!!

    to much judgement from the general public has folks clambering for a safe haven from whatever ails them, then when they find a group of like minded to relate to and feel comfortable sharing themselves with and then those very same folks turn and judge them for the slight difference they may have,
    maybe we can add some new forums down at the bottom of the page where they have more specialized forums....

    Check out these other hot web properties:

    “crossdressers who don't tell” ,
    “crossdressers who arent gay if you want a man while dressed”,
    “crossdressers that just like the clothes that sometimes stain theyre panties”,
    “crossdressers who don't do enough for the community”,
    “crossdressers that are just a regular crossdresser”
    "crossdressers who dont have a clue how to crossdress"
    "crossdressers that walk on water"
    "crossdressers that hate caitlyn jenner"
    "crossdressers that hate transgender"
    "crossdressers that dislike sarcasm"
    "crossdressers that dont participate"
    "crossdressers that dont share pictures"
    "crossdressers that are too crossdressy"

    that list could go on forever......
    Last edited by mykell; 02-01-2016 at 08:08 AM. Reason: it was a mess
    ....Mykell
    i dressed like a girl and i liked it! crossdressing...theirs an app for that

  12. #112
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    We all have our reasons for doing what we do, but I agree with Laurana that we shouldn't be lying to our wives. Crossdressing on the sly is a bit like having an affair with another woman.

    The only logical reason to hide our crossdressing from our wives is the fear of divorce or rejection. Or at the least, loss of intimacy.

    We can't all tell our potential wives before getting married, some of us got the urge well into the marriage. It's awkward after thirty years of marriage to say "Honey, by the way, I like to prance around the house in women's clothes, makeup and high heels while you are at work.", but it's best if we can find a way.

    You're going to get caught eventually if you don't tell.

    4. Never being found out and never having to tell
    Most criminals start out with that thought.
    Last edited by Krisi; 02-01-2016 at 09:11 AM.

  13. #113
    Genderfluid Swiftie DanielleLee's Avatar
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    This thread, not surprisingly has, has gone the way the OP intended. I steered cleared of it until now because of it.

    The same posters, with their same militant or "passionate" opinions... with a few voices of reason trying to even things out.

    This site is supposed to be a support forum above all else, which is to say it is in existence to provide support, guidance and advise. As of late it seems, at least in my opinion and in the opinions of some others, that support is only being provided if you cross dress and tell according to the proscribed manner that is required... subject to the express views and opinions of a few

    In my opinion it seems we've lost our collective empathy towards others here. We all know the burden this has been for each of us at various times in our lives and the shame/guilt most of us have faced, face or will face in the future.

    One final thought or request: please take care to ensure your house is perfect of defects and that every relationship is perfect, before coming into my house and judging me and mine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGIUtLO_x8g

  14. #114
    Member Secret Drawer's Avatar
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    One thing that may actually make it difficult if not impossible for some to overcome in order to tell any other human being (outside the internet) would be the inner confusion and turmoil that may be a part of all of this. It is pretty darn hard to figure out what to "tell" at all when one is confused about it to begin with.
    So in a non controversial way of answering the OP I would say "Perhaps the person does not yet understand enough about what is going on with them psychologically to be able to articulate to a person they love, (A very high stress situation on its own!) how they feel or need to act or wish to have things move forward?"

    In my case, my wife did in fact "find my stash." We had the talk, she did in fact ask if I was gay, etc... We live in a somewhat open DADT, and I would like this to change to a DA but sometimes TELL how I feel at times.

    Also, we all define relationships differently. My relationship "happens to be" sort of independent on many levels, I don't feel the need to know everything there is to know about my wife or what she does. I trust her to make good judgement calls. She understood why I wouldn't tell someone about my femme side and why it was so difficult to talk about. Empathy goes both ways, I don't see why that is so hard for some people?

  15. #115
    Martini Girl Katey888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krisi View Post
    You're going to get caught eventually if you don't tell.
    4. Never being found out and never having to tell
    Most criminals start out with that thought.
    Wrong!

    Once again, ignorance is bliss - so every CDer gets caught? Clearly not... yet you continue to peddle falsehoods to support your view of the world - that says it all... happy, blissful...

    And probably every criminal starts with that thought - but what we do isn't a crime is it...? Or do you think it should be...? Or is it only a crime if you don't tell your SO...?

    You people don't come here to support - you come here to judge. But you have no right and no moral authority to do so... Thank goodness...

    Katey
    "Put some lipstick on - Perfume your neck and slip your high heels on
    Rinse and curl your hair - Loosen your hips, and get a dress to wear"
    Stefani Germanotta

  16. #116
    Junior Member Kimberley May's Avatar
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    It's wildly ironically hypocritical how some proudly out in the open with it don't like to be judged by the world for crossdressing being told they're wrong for doing so and long to be understood and accepted, yet they judge other CD'ers telling them they're wrong themselves for not coming out and not accepting them and their many different reasons for that, not even caring to understand why themselves.

    So I'm wondering with all those who would judge, who's more ignorant?
    Gurlz they wanna have fu'hun. Oh gurlz just wanna have fu'hun x

  17. #117
    its important mykell's Avatar
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    so the indignation and derision has you down, feeling less of a part of the group, in denial, dont despair, its the future, so i present to you the "wayback" machine.....

    thats right after another similar thread from one of our GGs i invented the "say it from your stash" the guilt and insult free way to tell....heres a link

    http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...h**&highlight=
    ....Mykell
    i dressed like a girl and i liked it! crossdressing...theirs an app for that

  18. #118
    Fashionista VeronicaMoonlit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kimberley May View Post
    @VeronicaMoonlit

    Please quit dictating to me how I actually think, like you know my mind better than I know it myself.
    The last person to say something like that to me here, said the following to me about 2 months later: "You really did know me better than I knew myself." I said something like this to her: "Of course I did, I've seen it all before. The patterns of behavior are obvious to see."

    You don't know me, my mind, my situation, my girlfriend and how she thinks, or my life at all.
    You really think you're that much of a special snowflake? You really think you're that much different from the OTHER "CD's who say it's just a kink who-live-in-the-UK" who came before you? Patterns of behavior are OBVIOUS, people. They stick out like a sore thumb. It's simply a sort of forum demographics.

    For me, it is just a kink and a comfort while I don't have a female partner living here.
    Yes, yes and how many times have we heard THAT phrase before?

    Yes growing my hair long is another lil' kink for me. Sorry if that personally offends you.
    Why would you think I'm offended by that? I'm more offended by the fact that you've only been here a few months and you're NOT listening to the voices of experience who have been around for YEARS telling you to NOT make the mistake of purging.

    Please don't try dictate to me that I'm wrong again, because you are about me.
    We'll see about that. I'm going to predict that if you purge, you'll be back in 3 years or less, telling us how the purge didn't work.

    Why should I risk destroying my whole relationship and lose her, just for the cause and because it worked for you so everyone should do the same even if it doesn't work for them? Women don't fall at my feet everyday and I feel lucky to have her.
    Relationships are built on trust. Wouldn't you rather be with someone who does accept all of you, rather than just "settling"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcelle View Post
    Says the person looking down their nose at those who don't choose her path . . . ah perfection is a lonely place is it not?
    Can I be frank? I'm not looking down at those who didn't choose my path. I'm actually looking down upon the clueless noobs and perma-noobs who refuse to learn from the mistakes of the past, including my own. Did I not mention how disappointed and sad my family was that I didn't trust them? Have I not mentioned in the past that my Mother wished I had told her when I was young because she would have tried to help me. My not-telling was a big mistake and the fallout from the years of not-telling affects me to this day.

    So you have are completely honest in all aspects of your life?
    In this thread, we are talking about CD's coming out to SO's (and by extension immediate family they live with). We really don't need to expand it further like you're doing here:

    Out to your family and friends, the world writ large? Before you ask . . . yes I am, my wife, my work, my life (I am TS)
    I know you are TS, pink fog express and all that. But you might want to check the ol profile. And you might want to check my posting history...go on...you ought to check mHB and USENET too. (God how I miss the early days here, when more people knew my reputation from USENET.) Because trying to pull that "you can't tell CD's to be honest with their wives and immediate family if you aren't ALL THE WAY OUT" thing on me won't work...because that's basically saying only fully transitioned TS's can tell CD's to tell their wives and that's silly.

    Besides, my friends DO know, and the immediate family has/had (Mom & Dad have passed away, but they knew), as does my Boss of Bosses at work and some of my co-workers. To put it in the vernacular: Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!"

    Look . . . I am not saying don't tell,
    I know you're not....but....

    I am just letting others here know that this is no easy road to travel and by all means espouse the benefits of telling from your own experience but don't pretend to know the mindset and situation of everyone here.
    The problem is, some are going to use your words to keep on weaseling out of telling the wife. "see, if Marcelle who is out says it's okay not to tell, it's okay". And I'm not pretending to literally know, I'm using patterns of behavior, to predict future behavior based on high probability. It is basically forum demographics. You'll be able to do it too, eventually.

    This is hard enough for some who are struggling dealing with a very confusing thing and you all should know better . . . tossing around words like liars, cowards, shame, guilt and whatnot does nobody any good.
    Yeah, but the nicey nice "lets just hint at stuff that people should be doing rather than calling people out on their dumb and self-destructive behavior" isn't working, or we'd have fewer "my wife just found my stash" threads. This is basically tough love, trying to PREVENT future issues.

    Try seeing it from the perspective of the person who is struggling
    I do.

    Then provide guidance, not outright direction like the moral guardians of all that is good.
    We have, but it's not working because people obstinately refuse to do the thing that needs to be done that everyone knows should be done. To put it in the vernacular, people here still keep putting their hands in the fire even when they're told hundreds of times "Stop doing THAT."


    Quote Originally Posted by Kimberley May View Post
    Exactly Marcelle. Just because he thinks it's worth the risk himself to lose his entire family and be alone in it forever even though it worked out well for him, it doesn't mean that everyone should risk the same. Besides his reasons for dressing are likely entirely different to mine.
    I would advise you, dearie, to never use male pronouns to refer to me on this board again. Am I making myself clear, love.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katey888 View Post
    I was pondering on this thread overnight and what struck me is how much preaching goes on here under the pretext of support. This sort of sanctimonious pontification is NOT support: it's thinly-veiled imperiousness that follows the same pattern - "you've done something wrong that conflicts with my values so I'm telling you the right dogma to follow because my values are the only ones that matter..."
    That's not it at all, it's not about values, it's about "probabilities". It's a numbers thing, more than an ethics or morals thing (though it's also about that)

    Why do so many of you assume that personal values are absolute and homogeneous when clearly that is far from reality? Look around at the behaviour of your politicians, public figures, commercial leaders, friends, anyone! - if you need examples of how diverse 'truth' and 'honesty' can be interpreted.
    That doesn't matter one whit and you know it. We are talking about SO's here..... a personal relationship. the behavior of public figures and whatnot is irrelevant in this discussion.

    Your telling outcomes...

    Well, 3 is clearly not telling, so why not add:
    4. Never being found out and never having to tell
    Don't be a fool. Even though you're a noob, you should know by now that the reason I didn't include #4...is because the extremely low probability of actually happening. Look at the "my just found my stash" threads we see. It's not "if" it's "when, and you know it. Even Karen Hutton, who was once the poster-child for thinking she was getting away with it and thought she was so careful and would never get caught, got caught. You all think you're special snowflakes who will never get caught, that you have the perfect hiding space and how you're so good at hiding it...and you all FAIL, it's only a matter of time. All it takes is one little slip, or a wife getting curious about the bank account, or whatever, and you're busted. And yes that applies to the fetish side of the community that isn't here too.

    Kimberley: Do what you want to do and what feels right for you - this place is not the universal arbiter of what is good and bad in relationships.
    Maybe, but THIS place knows that purges don't work in the long term.

    For one thing all of us have something weird going on just to be here, right?
    (Don Draper moment) WHAT? (/Don Draper Moment) You didn't just say that. This is the point in a western movie when the heroine says: "Smile when you say that, pardner."

    Weird? Did you just basically say that everyone including the TS's is "weird"? "This Thing of Ours of Varying Kinds" isn't "weird". It's a natural part of the human condition and has been so for a very very long time. Never call it "weird".

    Veronica
    If you believe in it, makeup has a magic all it's own -- Sooner or Later (TV movie)
    We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be?- Marianne Williamson
    Have I also not said that "This Thing of Ours" makes some of us a bit "Barefoot in the Head"? Well, it does.

  19. #119
    Gone to live my life
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    Veronica

    You still don't get it. Who are you to dictate what is right and what is wrong and then denigrate people who don't toe your line.

    BTW ... stop misquoting me. I never said don't tell I said make an informed decision but it is yours to make.

    I can only wish I will be perfect like you some day. But then again I am just a noob who knows nothing about the human condition and you are oh so wise and worldly
    Last edited by Marcelle; 02-01-2016 at 12:49 PM.

  20. #120
    Senior Member Abbey11's Avatar
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    This is a great thread, loving it xx
    OMG!! Owning my femininity .... and I LOVE it!

  21. #121
    Junior Member Kimberley May's Avatar
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    You're so condescending Veronica, dear.

    Yes I've only been here a few months but what does that prove? That you're the only voice of reason and you know me more than I know myself? You're not here to support and listen and understand, you're only here to push your way of thinking onto everybody else who doesn't conform to your way of life and thinking whether they want it or not. You cannot force gender feelings on anyone.

    OK, you reckon someone proved you right, well whoopee-doo. You can't use this one little victory as a platform to arrogantly suggest that everyone is really a woman trapped inside a man's body. I'm very much attached to my male bits and i'm only attracted to women, tyvm.

    You sure like to assume that you know everyone better than they know themselves, but you don't. I could buy myself a gorilla or a Tarzan outfit. It doesn't mean that I actually see myself as a bleeping gorilla or Tarzan for real.

    I don't identify myself as a she as you identify yourself as, and equally I would like you to address me as "he". I am a bloke in a dress called Kimberley (which is a unisex name, btw). I am a he, a him, a guy getting straight sexual kicks in women's clothing. Nothing else. It's not denial, it's fact. Please don't radicalise me into believing I'm female trapped inside a guy's body and/or I want to dress like this all the time in front of everybody. No, I'm just a guy who likes a little private or non-recognised kinky role-play. What, you believe such a guy as I make myself out to be doesn't exist I hear you silently cry in futile protest? Heck, I could equally suggest that you're not actually a woman having all the man bits n'all, but I wouldn't like to be so presumptuous not knowing how you feel inside, like you somehow believe you do with me.

    If family and old friends find out, I will die of shame. I'll never be allowed to live it down, and even if they let it go and accepted it, I wouldn't feel right family and friends knowing. I wouldn't feel right parading and mincing (or dragging my knuckles) in front of them. Basically I'd feel like a total idiot even if they all happily welcomed it wholeheartedly straight away without judgment, as for me it is still the equivalent of me walking around in any kinky cosplay uniform used for private sex role-play.

    But if I get busted, I get busted. If I'm busted by my gf though and she happily lets me carry on, great. If it's either my fetish or her then I'll purge, and yes for good. I've always been happy enough to wear guy clothes before anyway without feeling wrong in them, I still do.

    Please don't arrogantly tell me I'm lying. I really don't want to come out to the world although I know my photos here carry some risk which I will remove at some point (lifelong SO excepted for the shared private fun if she's happy enough), I have enough issues and lifelong prejudices to contend with. I really would be alone if I shouted out my fetish to the world.

    What you suggest may work for you and some, but it could equally ruin many peoples lives, even possibly drive one or two to suicide, just because they took your not always sound advice. How would you feel then if your advice backfired so dramatically? Could you still take comfort by thinking "oh well at least they took my advice about being honest, open and upfront, and that is still always only a good thing". Could you, really? You know that most SO and much immediate family, even friends aren't accepting anyway. Please don't suggest that the crossdressing comes first above your SO, and what was otherwise a happy relationship beforehand.
    Last edited by Kimberley May; 02-01-2016 at 01:16 PM.
    Gurlz they wanna have fu'hun. Oh gurlz just wanna have fu'hun x

  22. #122
    Ice queen Lorileah's Avatar
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    Off the rails and becoming personal. So until 6 weeks from now when someone starts a new one, this is done
    The earth is the mother of all people and all people should have equal rights upon it.
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    “Love isn't a state of perfect caring. It is an active noun like struggle. To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.” - Fred Rogers,

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