Another FFS Thread

[Michelle789]

So in the past I have mentioned that I was considering FFS. After speaking with my therapist about this for seven sessions, and numerous talking about it with both GG's and other TG's, it seems that most people seem to think that my face is fine the way it is. In fact, the only two people who told me that I needed any FFS were

1. A genderqueer (who also happens to be crazy) and knows absolutely nothing about transition and trying to reinforce the binary
2. A transwoman, who is the craziest, meanest person in our local TG community, who also told me that my voice was so deep that I would never be able to talk like a woman without vocal chord surgery. Everybody hates her and says don't listen to her.

Obviously, these people lack any credibility and are not people I should be taking advice from.



Everyone else I spoke to, GG or TS, believes my face is fine the way it is. I have got a lot of how we are our own worst critics responses. I could even tell from the non-verbal cues that they aren't lying to me. Sometimes a person can lie, but their facial expression and body language give away that they're lying. It is clear to me that everyone who tells me my face is fine the way it is is telling me the truth. They really believe my face looks both female and beautiful the way it is, because their facial expression and body language tells me that they're telling me the truth.

I was doing okay until about a month ago, when Cody and I went to get an Angel Card reading from this guy at our church. He is a gay man. Angel Cards can read your gendered auras, abilities and talents, and attempt to predict the future (kinda like tarot cards, plus). This guy did Angel Card readings at Trans Pride back in June. I got two readings from him, one in June and one in December. My June reading indicated I had a 70% male aura, 30% female aura. My December reading indicated that my aura reversed - it was 70% female and 30% male. A good indication to me that I am starting to become socially integrated into society and slowly shedding male cues. In fact, I have been attending lots of women's AA meetings, which helps with the social integration.

I told him "well that makes sense, it seems as if I am getting gendered properly more often than back in June, and that I am passing better now." Indeed, in June I was getting mis-gendered left and right. These days I don't get mis-gendered very often, and I seem to get "ma'am" more often, but sometimes I feel like maybe people read me as neither male nor female. He responded "I think it's because people now know how to treat us."

This was a big hint from him that I really don't pass, and I'm no closer to passing than I was in June. This eventually triggered my thoughts and feelings about my face again, that there are male features that only FFS can fix.


Yet sometimes, I can't help but to believe that my face still has male cues that won't be corrected with HRT, and FFS it the only way to correct them. Sometimes I feel as if the universe is trying to tell me, "yeah, your face reads trans, there are male cues, but you have to accept them the way they are". It's like saying FFS is an answer, but not meant for me. I know I probably sound like a loon here, but I feel as if there is something conspiring to keep me looking trans, and that I have no chance to ever pass as cis.

I also feel like there could be a few reasons that people tell me my face is fine

1. GGs - They are afraid to hurt my feelings (although their body language says they're not lying to make me feel better)
2. GGs- They truly see my face as female
3. TSs - They have no expectation of passing as cis, and to them my face looks better than theirs so there is no reason for me to get FFS
4. TSs - They have every expectation of passing as cis, and their faces currently look better than mine. They are afraid that if I get FFS that I will look better than they do, and that is an absolute "no no" for them. If God forbid anyone looks better than them, especially me.
5. GG or TS - They simply don't believe in plastic surgery. I personally know of a few people who are morally opposed to plastic surgery. There even is a TS girl who believes that plastic surgery is a tool of the devil.

Someone on this forum recommended finding someone in my local TG community who has had FFS and to talk about the experience. Maybe they could help guide me. I haven't been able to find anyone who in my local TG community who has had FFS and is willing to talk to me. I know there are some of us here on the forum who have had the benefit of FFS. I would seriously, really appreciate, if I could speak with you, either by PM, or Skype, telephone, or Facebook private chat, about your FFS experience. I would like to talk with what your life was like before FFS, FFS itself, and your life since getting FFS.

I hope that someone here who has had FFS can reach out to me and we can have a conversation about this. Thank you!!!

[arbon]

I have not had any FFS myself but have seen enough before and after results with people in real life.

People seem to have a hard time being honest when it comes to this. I think it is mostly because they don't realize what is possible and how big a difference it can make. They are ignorant on this issue.

Most people have told me I don't need it. It is flattering. The problem with this is that all of those that have told me this don't have any experience with it and don't understand what some subtle changes could really accomplish in how we are gendered by people. I know I am not bad looking, but I am still readable as being trans and a lot of that has to do with my face. Trans women who have had FFS have not told me that I would not benefit from it in contrast to all those other people who would say I don't need it. If I had a lot of money I would do it because I know it would eliminate a lot of the uncertainty of whether I am being gendered correctly by others. Don't have a lot of money though and I don't know if it would have a big enough impact on the quality of my life to try and invest in it at some point.

Looking at your pictures yes you would benefit from it too. Would it make a huge difference in your life though, enough to be worth the expense? I don't know. But I would not put to much trust in those opinions that you don't need it.

[stefan37]

The decision to have FFS or not is completely on your comfort level. If you are comfortable, don't get it. If you are uncomfortable have it done. Looking at your avatar, I can see you have some very prominent male features that HRT will not erase. Your avatar is 2D frontal. We live in a 3D world. FFS will erase and mute those indicators. It is expensive. You may not be happy with the result. There may and can be complications.

I lived full-time 18 months before having FFS. I would be gendered male or female 50/50. After FFS I get gendered female 95/5. It introduced a whole new world of comfort.
I am glad I had the procedure and if I had to do it again. I would make the same decision to have FFS.

Only you can determine your comfort level and either spend the money or not.

Feel free to PM To discuss.

[Barbara Dugan]

Based on the few local ladies and Melissa that I know they had FFS , I truly believe that if you can afford it ...is a go for it choice.
FFS is one of the top priorities of my transition plan

[Michelle789]

Thank you all for your feedback. I would like to ask you to not please give me any more criticism on my facial features. If it was up to me, I'd get just about every single FFS surgery out there. But rather if you have already had FFS, then I would like to be able to speak to you privately about your FFS experience. That is really the purpose of this thread. If you are able to speak to me about your FFS experience, then please contact me by PM or FB private message, or whatever means you can. Thank you

[sarahcsc]

Hi Michelle,

Do you think I needed FFS?

I do not mean to brag, but I was already passing prior to having FFS, and NOBODY in my entire circle of friends agreed that I should have FFS, but I did it anyways.

The reason was simple, because "I wanted it".

What other people said to me and why they said what they said, had little to no bearing on my decision. It certainly made the journey a whole lot more daunting, but it didn't alter my decision because "I wanted it".

Friends, colleagues, and my own mother, could not point out the difference after surgery because it was so subtle. People ask me why do it if its not going to make any difference to how people perceive me, and the reason I gave them was, because "I wanted it".

Its wasn't about them, it was about me. My confidence as a woman was determined by how I saw myself, not how others saw me.

I made a decision in the face of uncertainties and I took responsibility for it.

Take responsibility for your own decisions, Michelle.

Your friends and family are not accountable for your happiness, neither should they be responsible for your misery. They may believe they have your best interest at heart, but only you know what you need most. Nobody is going to apologize for wasting your time should you decide to go ahead with surgery anyways 10 years down the line.

The first big question is, "how much do you want it?"

I can pm you my method of finding out the answer to that question if you want. Yes, there is a method.

Thus, the second big question is, "what are you going to do with it?"

Life before FFS for me was "ok..." but I wasn't getting anywhere in building my confidence. Life after FFS was a whole new world for me and now I am much more confident presenting as a woman. My personality began to reveal itself more when I was more confident, in other words, I was able to reveal to the world who I really am.

I was very sure the surgery was going increase my frequency of dressing, which was something I couldn't do before because I was just too self-conscious. But now I am dressing up at every opportunity I have except work (due to practical issues) which meant that my goal was fulfilled.

And finally, the third big question is, as eloquently put by Ayn Rand, "its not about who is going to let me, but who is going to stop me?"

That is all.

Love,
S

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Don't get tricked by people telling you what you need and don't need... some of it is well meaning garbage...some of it seems selfish and political with no care for your feelings...and some of it just ignorant..

it is YOUR life, it is your QUALITY OF LIFE we are talking about ...


here is my short story..

FF surgery had the biggest positive impact on my quality of life of any procedure...
i pass effortlessly..i am 6'2"...

it is interesting because i was originally quite disappointed...the outcome DID NOT match my fantasy ideal woman that had lived inside my head for 45 years..
but as i went out in the world, and always passed..always... a huge part of my life problem just disappeared... my gender is now always reflected back at me...


do you want your gender effortlessly reflected back at you??? to never ever even think about whether a male feature is covered up or too prominent??

the answer is yes or no....
if the answer is yes, then you need FFS...

there is nothing wrong with no...its expensive...and painful...and exhausting... and minor side effects are common..

and there is nothing wrong with attacking the gender binary ideal...nothing wrong with not always passing....
its about living your own personal authentic life with all its ups and downs...

i believe in your case you are an excellent candidate for FFS and your features would be female...



Michelle i can tell from your posts that you are doing your best to figure this out..

I am not telling you what you need either..

but FFS lets you have a different starting point for the rest of your life....if that's your goal, and you do the research and understand what you are getting into, nobody can tell you that you don't need it..

[becky77]

Can you afford it?

I think if you are asking the questions then you feel you need it.

I get exactly the same thing, no one thinks I need it and I seem to pass.

There are two types of people you should listen to.
The first is yourself, only you can know what needs to change for you to move on, like Sarah I possibly don't need it to pass but I sure know it would help.
The second is the people that have done it, because they know how much it has improved their life.

It's not for me to say if you need it, I don't think you do. But I do think it could improve things for you, it would imagine it should make a difference on being misgendered.
Remove your hair from your face and all makeup, stand alone in front of the mirror then ask yourself, do I need FFS? Or will FFS improve my way of life?

The other thing is, even with a face that everyone perceives as female we have grown up associating it as male. A little FFS might just help remove that internal association.

[Michelle789]

Thank you all very much for your responses. I think it was very helpful feedback.

Much of my problem comes from two sources.

1. Ms. Crazy lady. To sum her up, she says that "You will NEVER pass without FFS" and in a very condescending way. She also loves to brag about how pretty she is and how much male attention she gets. TBH, I don't think she is all that attractive. She's not even close to being some 20 year old model. Not even close (age 47 to begin with). I think she wants to be a model or a barbie doll, but I don't think she is. She also literally comes off sounding like the wicked witch of the west. She said "If I met you off the streets, I'd take you as a man, [laughing evil like Cinderella's stepsisters and stepmom] I love you". She also told me that "You will NEVER talk like a woman without vocal chord surgery, your voice is so deep. It's the deepest voice I have ever heard." She tells me how if you get FFS you can go stealth and look like a supermodel. It's very, very clear to me, that she is going for a supermodel look, and isn't there. I see FFS as about erasing male bone structure, not trying to look like some supermodel. She tells me how great the vocal chord surgery is and how it will instantly transform your voice. Reality check. People have got vocal chord surgery and could never talk above a whisper again.

Although my voice is not passable yet, it's not so bad that it can't be worked on with voice training therapy. That is what I have been told by saner trans people.

She is also incredibly crazy and mean. She once accused me of ruining her leather skirt, of ruining her day. Once after my TG group was over, everyone was socializing outside the L.A. LGBT Center. She starts yelling at me and accused me of "ignoring" her when I was having a conversation with someone else and it didn't include her. Everyone knows she's crazy and mean, and no one really likes her.

Her opinion is one of the reasons I have questioned whether or not I should get FFS. I honestly cannot take the opinion of a crazy person who has unrealistic goals. That is why I am looking for some sane sound advice, from people who have realistic goals from FFS.

I would gladly take the risk of FFS. I will never take the risk of vocal chord surgery. I'll practice the hard way to get my voice to be passable.

2. Cody. He just doesn't think I should get FFS. He is not a big fan of plastic surgery to begin with, and he feels that FFS is all for vanity. I don't think he understands that erasing male bone structure isn't quite the same as vanity. I think he mostly worries about what could go wrong during the surgery. Yeah, I get it, it's risky. But I feel like it could be totally worth the comfort and erasing any doubts about how I am perceived by others or by myself. He also worries that I am going to rush into it. Honestly, I can't. If I do end up getting FFS it probably won't be for another year or even two years. And I would consult several FFS surgeons and do much soulsearching before I get FFS.


I think Becky hit it spot on. I think listening to myself, and to others who have actually had FFS done, is what I should do. Not to those who want FFS but haven't had it yet, nor to those who don't want FFS. And certainly not to the local TG loon and mean girl. I think this is something that should be approached like AA. AA doesn't tell you that you are an alcoholic and that you need to stop drinking. Rather I go to an AA meeting, listened to their stories, and identified. Now I have 8.5 years sober. I think it's the same thing with FFS. I need to listen to the stories of others who have had it done, see where I identify (with the before story) and make a decision.

Like with AA, I don't need to identify perfectly with everything. My drinking story doesn't include prison or lots of trouble. No armed robberies, DUIs, killing people in a DUI, or sex capades. And I didn't even do other drugs. I was a stay at home, daily drinker who couldn't stop drinking, was miserable inside and couldn't get to work on time. And I certainly identified with the stinking thinking. So maybe with FFS, maybe people perceive me as female most of the time. Maybe people truly can't find anything wrong with my face. But if I have some doubt about how people perceive me or about ow I perceive myself in the mirror, than that's enough to get FFS.

[Bria]

Michelle, I think that you are coming to a reasonable conclusion. Definitely don't listen to the TG Loon and mean girl. That type of person isn't even worth the time of day, if I were you I would avoid her as much as possible short of being rude. I know people that are very opinionated, I'm very careful not get them started down that road, stay on "safe" topics if interaction is necessary.

Vanity, shamity, it's your face! Sarah said it, "I wanted it". Why do GGs get boob jobs and face lifts? And nobody is going to misgender them if they don't. If it will make you more confident, that confidence will make as much difference as the physical changes.

Hugs, Bria

[Badtranny]

Every one of us who's had it, has said it was very helpful. I've seen several girls post stuff, just do a search here.

My opinion is well documented. It's risky, expensive and well worth it on both counts.