Questions About Talking With Your SO

[Nadine Spirit]

I have been pondering a question for you all; do you talk with your SO about anything and everything?

This is something I have been pondering for a bit as I contemplate why so many of you choose to not disclose your gender variances to your SOs. I am not bringing this up to debate the merits of telling your SO, there is currently another open thread yet again discussing that topic. Rather, I am curious how many of you talk openly and honestly with your SOs and why you choose to have that type of relationship or choose to not do that. I really am not opening this thread to judge and tell you that you are wrong for your choice, I am just kind of hoping that you could explain your position and possibly help educate me on your views.

So for clarity here are my questions:
1 - Do you regularly engage your SO in conversations about anything and everything?
2 - Why or why not?


I'll give your my thoughts on those questions.

1 - Yes, I have made it a point to work on our communication skills to get to a point where we can both talk to each other about anything and everything, no matter the topic, time, or place.

2 - I grew up watching my parents and my family struggle in highly dysfunctional relationships and I always wondered why we could not just talk to each other about things. There were plenty of words said in my family, we were all very vocal, and loud. But we really never actually conversed, we just screamed at each other. So lots was said, but really nothing was really communicated. I observed that communication is a two way thing - talking and listening, and it is not something that just happens easily. It is something that needs to be worked on continuously. This is not something that came very easily to my spouse. She grew up in a silent family. They never screamed or yelled, but they also never talked about anything real. They were all encouraged to hide their emotions and real feelings and my future wife went along happily with the examples she was provided. Thus when my spouse and I started dating at 15, we were worlds apart on how we felt about communication. I wanted to talk about everything, and she did not want to talk about anything. Through lots of hard work and lots of hard conversations we have come to point where we both agree that talking is better than silence. But, that is what works for us and I am not trying to say that is what would be best for everyone.

Thus when I first began to desire to wear women's clothes, it was just natural that of course I told her. It was never even a consideration to not tell her. Which is one reason why it is at times difficult for me to understand why so many have chosen to not tell at least your SO about your desires.

Oh and a bit more - yes I do believe in being honest about everything. There are those who say, that you can not possibly be honest with your SO about everything. Okay, possibly I do not explain every single little tiny detail about every single little thing that ever happens in my life. But, and it is a big but, there is absolutely nothing that I am not willing to discuss with my spouse.

So, without judgement of what you choose, and why you choose to do that, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the matter.

Thanks!

[Saikotsu]

I choose to be completely open with my girlfriend, because she's the one I want in my life. Simply put, if we communicate and coordinate, we make a better team. At first it was hard, but now, I can't imagine a life where I hide things from her. The way I see it, if she sees everything about me. My positives. My flaws. My deepest, darkest secrets. My hopes And dreams. And she STILL wants to be with me. That makes her the one. And in return I'll give my everything to her. Mind, body, soul, she can have it
Because if she can accept me as I am, she deserves no less.

[Dana44]

Nadine, Yeah I do explain everything to my SO. As you know me i am androgynous and that even takes more communication. Especially why I would not ever completely transition. But may partially. But it takes deep discussion and talks on both sides with each other. Her wants are important also in our relationship. If we are a happy couple, we can support each other in our endeavors. The why is that communication between us is so important for both of our happiness.

[gabriella1964]

Very nicely wrote, agree with your view to the tee, a great relationship takes openness and good communication. You sound alot like me. But its rare to find cpls that stick together as long as we have, be thankfully we have it.,alot dont

[Jenniferathome]

1) yep
2) In the end, avoiding subjects is harder than talking about them

Our cross dresser conversations have become subject matter with no more import than where to go to dinner. It's just reality and I have nothing to hide. That applies to the rest of our relationship. Open kimono all the time. Takes the stress out of any relationship.

[AllieSF]

Great question, part of which is clearly answered in your description of both of your families. I am from the last generation, i.e. before yours. A lot of gender roles, which get stereotyped a lot here on this site, were actually defined and accepted or tolerated roles by most for all their good and bad points. We never discussed much of anything serious in our family. My parents kept their issues to themselves and never argued about anything. Years later when talking about old times with my Mom when she was in the nursing home, she would let out bits and pieces about how it was with Dad. So, for some of us, maybe a lot of us older ladies here, we picked up a lot from our parents and societal culture of that time. I got married young with no training classes about anything. Everything was trial and error. We did well for almost 20 years. I always wanted to talk about things and she didn't. Now saying didn't may not be totally correct either. She came from a Latin culture and was now living in my culture. I believe that she didn't know how to communicate well, meaning sharing and trusting her partner with intimate or personal things, and helping me understand those things when I may have heard those things before but never reacted in the way that she wanted me to.

After my divorce, which was very hard on me emotionally, I read a lot of self help books, mostly on the differences between men and women (Men are from Mars and Women from Venus types) and on communication (Deborah Tanner, "That is not what I said, That is not what I meant", and others). I began to realize that I and her were never really taught (classes or through observation and exposure to) how to communicate. We never realized the value of good communication. I realized that to communicate well, it needs to start with the everyday and less important issues, so that when the big issue comes along the learning and tools are already in place to facilitate dealing with it in a mature and less emotional way. So, now even though I have learned how to communicate better, I am still not all the way there and have difficulty sometimes with certain topics. However, I am much better than I was when married.

Now back to your questions. I am not in a relationship now, but do know that communication skills would be an important factor to consider when finding another mate. With friends I want honesty. I want to know the Why's and Why Not's. I do not like reading between the lines since I am probably batting ;less than 50% when it matters. The Why's to my past when married are a lack of communication knowledge. The Why's as of today, I am still a work in progress.

Now, getting to what other people write here and how others react. That also can be traced back to lack of good communication. I still run across most people today, young and old, who do not communicate well. Based on all my experience. When I hear what hey say, I almost always suggest that they get some help, normally independent trained third parties, to help them improve their communication skills. I also strongly recommend that no one can get a marriage license without showing some type of communication training, like pre-marriage counseling, especially for those who boast and are later proved wrong ("I don't need it" types). I think that would greatly reduce the number of divorces world wide. I think that I would probably still be married if I would have known how to talk over, listen (another very difficult and necessary skill in relationships) to each other's issues. I truly marvel at people who can actually have those very open and honest conversations on difficult subjects and issues here. In my opinion, your are the exception and definitely not the norm. That is why I am less harsh on those that have a hard time telling and discussing all this , and do not just do it like those that can talk can do. I just wish others would be so tolerant too.

[claudiaxander]

wholeheartedly agree,
constant communication and honesty is everything,
no-one is psychic and misunderstandings get way out of hand so easily
ive seen so many other sham relationships built on lies and barely hidden hatred, makes me think some people are more comfortable in a weird hell of their own making; emotional masochists.

[BettyMorgan]

After about dating for just over a year I told my SO about my desire to dress. I had dropped hints along the way but in the end I let her know. Now in our fifth year together she brings up my CDing as often as I do. Being open and honest about such an important part of my life has lead to better mental health. So being able to discuss it with her, and knowing she won't leave me, has made a significant difference in my life.

Ladies, it takes a lot of energy to hide what we do. It may not appear like it does but I know there's a difference in my happiness and general outlook now that I don't have to hide my clothes and worry about someone finding them.

[bridget thronton]

Talking also involves listening - i find that when I start by listening to my wife, she is more than willing to hear what I have to say

[pamela7]

Nadine, in a word, yes, totally. I grew up with dad not responding to mum's increasing frustration - divorce. Then i married, wanted to talk, sort couple therapy, my (now ex) wife did not, so it killed the marriage. Now, with welshgirl in our 14th year together, all is as clear and loving, only deeper, as the beginning, because we talk about anything and everything, we deal with any emotional reponse/problem as it happens, we love eachother's company, in fact we don't need anyone else's, we could be hermits on an island and perfection it would be.

The benefits are everywhere. Just this morning, she said to me she thinks i should go fully dressed to the mason's Burns Supper tomorrow night; she'd thought it through and gets where i'm coming from on it. It's one of the most binary, straight type events one could attend, very clearly defined "lassies and laddies", and i'm coming out to a large group of mostly-older, former colleagues there. And that is just one great reason to talk about anything and everything; togetherness means being undivided, being united.

[Kimberley May]

I only recently got into it after the odd quick 5 minute dabble years ago. I haven't told my SO yet for two reasons.

1. We haven't known each other long enough yet for me to know whether she'd accept it or not.
2. I'm still trying to come to terms and accept it myself.

She suddenly came into my life just a few weeks after I got back into it, I already was hooked by then. I still feel a sense of embarrassment and shame, that possibly I have mental health problems which makes me do this, problems I fear she won't be able to deal with.

I also fear my family and friends finding out. If me and my SO split up over it, well a woman scorned as they say. It's still early days in our relationship for me to know how she might react. She could tell her friends and it could all spill out on Facebook. My family and friends won't understand nor accept it. They"d probably try to get me sectioned. I already suffer from depression, bipolar 2 which I'm currently being assessed for. Being publicly outed will make it worse.

So, I would somehow need to know how she sees it before I decide whether to tell her or not. If I find she can't live with a guy who CD's then I will not tell her and give it up, for sure if we decide to take it a step further and live together. Yes it is possible to.

Update:
She does wear mens clothes herself, she says it's because certain menswear are more comfy and practical than women's. Such as mens jeans with its deeper pockets. In fact she mostly wear menswear besides underwear. Yet I still have a feeling she won't accept it even though she posted a Facebook meme about acceptance of TG's recently. A double standard perhaps.

[Tina_gm]

Kimberly, you won't fully know until you tell her. Even theoretically, a woman can say she would, but will she if it is you? She may not even know until the situation is presented to her. Some wives or GF's don't think they would or could until they are told. Then they re evaluate it and realize they can. Not all. Some try and realize they can't. Some never try and never want to have anything to do with it. The only way to know is to tell her.

[2B Natasha]

Nadine

Me and my wife talk about everything and anything. We both came into the relationship after Starr husband and wife's, so we both knew ourselves and what we wanted.

about the only thing we don't talk about are politics and religion. She's not interested in politics and I seeth about religion so much I literally froth at the mouth when I talk about it. Bunch of rat *******s. But sex, crossdressing, family, children, et al. It's all out there.

Now I have to add that I think it is because we started the relationship out admitting things about our pasts. So that we both knew what we where getting into. That included crossdressing which was a topic of conversation about ten minutes into our first meeting.

Cheers

[Meg East]

1: We talk about everything.

2: We have always talked about everything. Relationships are simpler without the burden of walls and taboo subjects.

[Nadine Spirit]

Thanks so much to everyone for your responses.

What I am not hearing from though are those of you who do not speak openly with your SOs. Really, I am not interested in judging you. I am really interested in learning more about your perspectives and how exactly that sort of relationship works. It is such a foreign concept to me, I am just not sure how it would function. But I am well aware that we are all different and quite possibly that type of situation may work out beautifully for you.

Can you please explain it to me? Others here may say that your way of living is wrong, and while it is not for me, I am not going to tell you that what works for you is wrong. I really would just like for some of you who don't speak about things to be able to explain to me what is up with that so that maybe I might be able to better understand your perspective.

Thanks everyone!

[Tina_gm]

Nadine- my wife is in a minority of women who do not like to chat or talk in depth about emotions. hers or anyone's for that matter. She talks in very practical terms and situations almost always. Especially when it comes to the intricate details of being TG it is just very very difficult for her. Not that there ever haven't been discussions. I have noticed that my wife is the least curious person about damn nearly anything and everything. Overly curious can be a detriment most often. At a point though, a lack of wanting to know more, and not just TG related, but about anything can I think also be a detriment. Of course she doesn't see it this way. I guess on the good side, my wife is the least gossipy person you are likely to know.

I have learned when either I really need to get something off my chest, or for her to have what few questions she does ask to not get too long or too deep. I am always amazed she doesn't want to know more or hasnot asked more questions. If it was reversed, and she told me that she is transgender, I would be asking so many questions and doing so much research into it. I would want to know anything and everything I could.

In a way, I am sometimes feeling the way you do. Not understanding why she would not want to communicate more. From what she has told me, is that if she doesn't or isn't able to understand it, trying to talk about it only makes it even harder to deal with. I have begged her to try learn how to deal more with her own internal issues. I now believe her when she will say she is bothered by something and won't know why. She will hold things in with the best of them and do whatever she can to repress negative emotions. I believe it comes from being raised on a dairy farm.

[Meghan4now]

My situation is similar to GenderMutt's. We talk about most things, but she clams up about things that bother her. Sometimes it's something that she is mad about, sometime worried, sometimes sad. Sometimes it's something about me, sometimes the kids, sometimes her family. It can really be tough when she gets stoic. When she does, I default to "now what have I done"

We went through a period where it seemed like she was always mad at me, and lashing out. Sometimes I deserved it, other times not. Now with the passage of time, we are generally better, but it becomes hard to overcome that fear of her being angry.

So while we can discuss a great many things, getting her to discuss certain topics, or when she's in a mood can be quit difficult. We've been married 26 years.

[TaraGrace]

hi Nadine,

1. Yes, completely
2. Here I can list some pro's and cons.

This is my third relationship being 100% completely and truely open. 3+ years at current.

It is the hardest decision I ever made, and over the years I have often envied people who have not!

The first relationship (mariage) ended based on honesty.. a wise choice though, we married too young, and allthough I do not regret it, I do not regret getting a divorce either (and neither does my ex-wife, even today.. we speak a few times a year).

The second relationship mentioned was for 4-5 years, and I can honestly say I cursed the honesty! It was the absolute reason we broke up, a mutual choice, because we realised both in our 30's we had become like brother and sister with huge love for eachother, respect, etc. but if felt like pensioners.. I can even explain it well but both being bi-sexual and swingers, yet happy together too, we were living in how we would dream our old age together.. which if you both have a high sex drive is killing.
And we both thought the same.. the 100% honesty here had us rush through 4-5 years as if it were 20. We are still great friends today, so although I am happy making this decision didn't cost me my dearest friend, at the time we broke up my world shattered.

And I swore.. never again.. after that I went on a binge of short term relationships (basically dates from the swinging life that were enjoyable on both sides and lasted for a few weeks or a few months unintentionally) and thought great.. this is working out nice.. mind you, I was always honest about the fact that I wasn't into anything serious so no false pretentions.

And then I met my current girlfriend, and totally unexpectedly.. she almost from the get go was extremely serious not looking for anything short term, and I just fell for her and my 100% honesty just popped out again instantly. Having learned one important lesson from the last two relationships - people grow, always! And for me the trick is to try and grow together, at the same pace and in more or less the same direction.

I believe these days that pacing certains steps is also very important.. but that might be personal for me.. so instead of moving in together in weeks/months, we did that after 2,5 years.. and instead of thinking about kids the 2nd date, we've now waited 3 years before slowly thinking "hmm, now might be a good time". etc.

Most people would still condone me, yes, I still am a swinger and bi-sexual.. and my girlfriend is too.. and we have our fun together but also seperately.. so I am not "normal" to average standards.. but for us it's simple.. we might not share every single detail, but we talk about what we do open and honest. You can imagine both dating, at a point you will run into another person that might be more interesting then just a fun night.. it happens in this 'scene'.. and we do date people more then once, but have a rule to share if something like this happens and cut-off any contact just to make sure. It happend once for both of us.

So talking about CD was easy for me.. my GF already knew and accepted a lot of strange things about me, and it definately was easier then teller her on the 3rd date.. "by the way, did I mention I am bi-sexual". And still I was nervous as CD came as a big surprise to myself too and I turned to her just a few weeks ago utterly confused.

So.. yes, I am 100% truely honest and open, and yes I can highly recommend it.

That said, it takes a lot of hard work, ever so much more effort and it does not have a guarantee for success!

Weighing that off against the pro's, even though it's not an easy road.. I simply can't imagine being in a relationship long term with someone that would not accept me, or where I would have to hide/lie/cheat.

Hope that gives you some insight

x Tara

-edit- reading back, the 1st, 2nd and 3rd were not my first, second etc. relationship, but the 1st where is was 100% honest (just to clarify)

[Nyla F]

My wife and I don't talk openly about my cross dressing, but it isn't my choice. That is how she wants it. Clearly DADT.

[Leslie Langford]

Sounds great in theory, Nadine, but I'd love to hear your thoughts about how to deal with an SO who is highly opinionated, judgmental, unwilling to yield on any point, hears but does not absorb and/or process the information that is presented to her, sidesteps direct questions the way a true politician does without ever giving a direct answer, and is never, ever wrong about anything.

In any discussion, the first order of the day for my wife is to determine who (in her opinion) is at fault and therefore needs to accept full responsibility for what went wrong, get reamed out over it, and only then can there be any movement forward (as if!). Conversely, even when she is wrong or out of line in her thinking or actions, and even if she were confronted with irrefutable evidence of this corroborated by dozens of eyewitness accounts (as well as videotaped evidence if necessary), she would still adopt the adamant, illogical, supremely tone-deaf and arrogant "Shaggy" defense so often repeated in his iconic song ("It wasn't me!").

Pray tell, how does one then get through to an SO who believes that her values, life experiences, and opinions are the gold standard that everyone should adhere to, and that the only right way is hers. Given that mindset, she also believes that not only is she totally beyond reproach, it is also her mission in life to whip everyone around her in line and to her way of thinking, and that nagging, berating, and belittling are legitimate tools to that end.

How does one get a person like that to accept a spouse's crossdressing and gender dysphoria when she is convinced that this is reprehensible, deviant behavior and a self-indulgent "hobby" that must be suppressed lest that spouse set themselves (and her) up for ridicule, not to mention psychologically damaging anyone among family or friends who might become exposed to this embarrassing knowledge and/or activity. I haven't been able figure out the answer to any of that in close to 45 years of marriage, so if you can do it, my hat is off to you.

Yes, we're very much DADT, my wife and I, and while I sometimes think that I see a softening in her position vis-a-vis my crossdressing, before long we're at it again hammer and tong, and invariably at my wife's instigation. Pretty much, actually, like the Arab-Israeli conflict that has been going on for what seems like forever, with the cease-fires occasionally negotiated serving no other purpose than to provide an opportunity to reload for the next round of fighting.

[Amanda M]

We talk about everything. You have both dealt with too many failing relationships that failed because lack of communication to do otherwise.

[Kiersten]

Yes we do, sometimes we have to make time to connect because our work schedules make it difficult.
Communication is an important part for any relationship to succeed and grow.

[Teresa]

Nadine,
Both my wife grew up in an atmosphere of not being able to say too much, both had overbearing fathers that ruled the roost !

As you say the problem is in those circumstances things only get said in fits of anger !
Nowdays I tend to talk too much and say too much in normal conversation, the problem is my wife has a fiery streak from her father and tends to let fly when the conversation leads to sensitive subjects . I think she realises how destructive that has been and is trying to moderate it simply because she knows it will wind me up eventually . Throwing CDing into this equation hasn't been easy , it goes from heated words to days of silence but it is getting better.

As for being totally honest with each other there are things she just doesn't want to hear or discuss, yes it does feel I live part of my life separately through this.

[Rhonda Darling]

I married my high school sweetheart and we were together almost 40 years before I lost her to cancer. I've been CDing essentially my whole life, but alway in the closet and behind the scene. ny deepest regret is never having the courage to teller her of my CD/TS nature. The amount of energy needed to keep the secret is draining, to say the least.

I suppose I never told her because, like many of my era, there was no good information out there about people like us, and until the advent of the internet, I always felt like a freak, oddity, etc. whose secret would drive others away. I didn't want to lose my wiife, so my dark secret remained hidden.

Fast forward. When I began dating again after mourning my earlier loss, i resolved to not have a secret hidden life, but that anyone I was serious about would need to know fully about Rhonda and and accept that part of me as being here to stay. The wonderful woman i recently married, after being together for 5+ years, is fully accepting. We talk freely about my CDing, she helps me perfect my game, buys me girly stuff (including an engagement and wedding ring for when I'm in femme mode) loves me no matter how I present myself, and loves me all the more because she knows I'm not keeping secrets, and (finally) has come to realize that when I look at other women, I'm studying them, their clothes, mannerisms, their gestures, their clothes, etc., not lusting after them in. any sort of sexual way.

Finally, I feel more secure in my marriage because there is little chance that my CDing will ever come between us. Not having to hide a major part of who I am is most freeing.

Rhonda

[Cheryl T]

Prior to coming out to my wife I would say no.
After that point, YES. I tell her everything, we talk about everything and we do most everything together.

There are no longer any secrets.