Are there those here that are know inside they are really TS?

[JessiFoxx]

I've spent my whole adult life in denial about it, but the bottom line is, my blood pressure runs about 20 points higher when I spend a day in boy mode than when I am in girl mode. And I want so badly to transition. But my wife does not want me to be publicly out, and I love her and want to stay married. I keep hoping and praying society will change, and fighting for small victories, like recent trips out partially dressed. But yes, I know deep down that I am transgender/transsexual.

You have taken the works right of my mouth Carly! Couldn't have worded it better!

[mechamoose]

MM, you and a few others here fall into a class all your own.

You aim to, or are resigned to, or are content with projecting a male image while wearing women's clothes. I admire you for honoring who you are, but I think this thread applies mostly to people who want to present as women, which I believe is the bulk of the members in this forum?

Thread topic: Are there those here that are know inside they are really TS?

Isn't that a question worth answering? As much as I acknowledge that I'm an 'odd bird', 'presenting' as women doesn't even come close to addressing the CD/TS issue. Do you want to change your genetic self, or is your itch scratched by 'just' dressing?

Mine is. I dress in girly things because it feels right. I don't have gender dysphoria in the physical sense. Psychologically, I do. I do not to want to change or to even want to approach genetic reassignment.

I present a male image because I don't have much of a choice. I'm built like an eff'n truck. I still do my nails every week, have hair down to my shoulder-blades, and *love* skirts.

What am I?

- MM

[JessiFoxx]

LOL, but yes in short because a lot has been already been said here, YES I do believe I am TS/TG and will be seeking counselling on this to see for sure!

Wish me luck!

[Jazzy Jaz]

[QUOTE=mechamoose;3894736]Thread topic: Are there those here that are know inside they are really TS?

Isn't that a question worth answering? As much as I acknowledge that I'm an 'odd bird', 'presenting' as women doesn't even come close to addressing the CD/TS issue. Do you want to change your genetic self, or is your itch scratched by 'just' dressing?

The thing is, I can't answer those last two questions the way that TS/CD can. The first one I would say somewhat yet not neccesarily ish, the second I would say no but I'm sure it's likely scratched better than it is for a non transitioned TS? I don't spend everyday hating the fact that I'm in a male body, it's somewhat comfy. But I do spend alot of time resenting the fact that I don't get to be in a female body. I spend everyday being ok with being both male/female but hating being confined to the body of one.

[Zooey]

And my GG is a male, yet her identity is not an identity all to itself? Oh wait, yes it is. She is my girly bear, and is all that rough fur and prettiness all at once.

...

She is still a GG, but that isn't how she would identify if all the 'rules' were suspended. She is a boy in a GG body.

What "rules"? Societal rules have no bearing on one's actual self-identity, although they may affect how comfortable one is with expressing it.

Does your wife self-identify as a man, or are you projecting that on them because they're not conventionally feminine? That's a sincere question; it's not clear to me from your post.

As far as I'm concerned, if your wife self-identifies as a man, he's a man - not a woman. Good for him.
If they identify as a non-binary gender, they're whatever they say they are. Good for them.
If she identifies as a woman, then good for her and please stop this line of reasoning.

The same applies for your identity.

[sometimes_miss]

Thread topic: Are there those here that are know inside they are really TS?

To answer that we have to know what the question is. "those here that are know". I've never heard those words put in that order, in my life. I suppose the question was meant to mean, are there people who know that they are transsexual. Whether inside or outside is also vague, I've never heard of someone who is an outside transsexual. Or does that mean they feel they are of the opposite gender psychologically but do not feel the need to present as the physical sex they believe themselves to be mentally? Either way, there will be at least one. We're a very diverse group on this forum.

Do you want to change your genetic self, or is your itch scratched by 'just' dressing?

1. As far as I know, no one's yet been able to change themselves from XY to XX. So perhaps we'll suppose you mean sexual reassignment surgery?
2. 'just dressing', no. Of course, that also brings the question, what is 'just dressing'? I can wear a ladies undershirt and cotton granny panties, and women's sweats but no, that won't 'scratch my itch' because none of it feels or looks like stereotypical female attire. I need the reinforcement of visual and tactile feedback to 'scratch the itch' which will support the illusion to myself that I am female. Then the itch has been scratched.

Mine is. I dress in girly things because it feels right. I don't have gender dysphoria in the physical sense. Psychologically, I do.

That's what GID is; The feeling that your gender does not match the physical body/sex that you were declared to be when you were born, and treated as, when you were growing up. This was best exemplified by David Reimer, a male twin who was physically altered to be female when during circumcision they accidently burned off his penis. So, they convinced his parents to have him castrated, and then continued and had a rudimentary vulva created, had him declared female, and tried to raise him as a girl. But he inherently felt like he was a male.

I do not to want to change or to even want to approach genetic reassignment.

again we'll have to assume you mean sexual reassignment surgery.

I present a male image because I don't have much of a choice. I'm built like an eff'n truck.

There are some women who look very much like men (look at the bodybuilders magazines). Well, there were numerous East German female olympian athletic competitors who were built like trucks back in the 20th century, thanks to (most likely) male hormones being given to them.

I still do my nails every week, have hair down to my shoulder-blades, and *love* skirts. What am I?

The first question you need to address, is, how much do you really want to know? Suppose you find out that you ARE transsexual? Then what? Could you be content being a woman who's built like a truck? (because I face that potential problem as well). Would you feel the need to change your life? Or be ok just knowing that you're essentially a female, living out your life as a male?
Another question which may help is, are you trying to distance yourself from being male? Or trying to convince yourself, others, or both, that you are female?

There's a lot to go over before you can come to an final answer to your question "What am I?"

[PretzelGirl]

I am late to the party, so sorry for the drop in. One comment I want to make is that I see a lot of comments from people trying to define "a CD does this" and "a TS does that". A crossdresser or a transexual does exactly what they want to and it doesn't have to fit a mold or follow a rule/perception. Some of you missed how I figured myself out completely by trying to standardize our paths. Allow everyone to progress their own way and accept them. It really works!

[becky77]

What am I?

- MM

MM

I don't know, you are definitely conflicted though.
Have you looked into Gender therapy?

You maybe one of those floating in the grey area, that's a huge discussion for another thread I reckon.

You give off a mixed message making it hard to decipher what you mean. I also think you are confused with the difference between being feminine and being a woman.
You described your wife as a man, tell me is that because she talks and acts like a man and identifies as a man or is it purely how she looks and dresses? Do you call her a he?

From a TS point of view it's extremely insulting when you keep referring to your physicality as a reason not to transition. Because most TS have issues with male physical characteristics that they have had to transition despite of.
I have a lot of male body issues that I have to deal with. How do you think it feels for me when I'm at a wedding and I'm taller and broader than every other woman there and many men?
I stand out like a sore thumb in the group photo.

I have to cope the best way I can, I had to transition because I could no longer survive living the lie of being a man.

You mention how much you like wearing skirts, what does that have to do with being TS? Do you actually know what being TS means?

I'm not sure if you are having trouble expressing your meaning or if you just don't understand what we mean by identity?

Liking feminine clothing is a 'Preference' it's what you like it's not an indicator of your internal gender.

MM - Have a think on this.
If someone said you could have a female body (same size you are now but unmistakably female) and you would socialise and interact as a woman.
But there was never any feminine clothes everyone everywhere is androgynous.
Would you have the surgery to be female? Would you define yourself as a woman regardless if you had to wear trousers the rest of your life?

Some really interesting responses on here.

[ReineD]

Thread topic: Are there those here that are know inside they are really TS?

Isn't that a question worth answering?

Yes of course, but I was joining the conversation that was taking place in the 10 or so posts above mine. It is common in four page threads to have some tangential discussion to the OP. People were explaining the difference between CDers and TSs to Gendermutt, who suggested they both have the same source, femininity.

And no, you are not chopped liver. No one is disputing your GD. But, you are unlike most of the CDers and all of the TSs I know and so I really don't know where your place is when we talk about femininity as being the one thing that CDers and TSs have in common (according to Gendermutt). This is not a criticism of you, just respect for your description of yourself.

[Marcelle]

What am I?

Hi MM,

I don't think anyone was disrespecting you . . . just caught up in the multiple tangents this thread has taken. Who are you? (sorry, not a big fan of the term "what" applied to someone) Unfortunately only you can answer that. Look, I am quite new on this site and definitely very new to the TS side of the forum, but I can tell you that as much as I wanted someone (my therapist, my friends, my wife, people here) to tell me who I was . . . only I could discover that and define myself. I was a big "labels are for soup cans" proponent in my early days here and while I identify as TS it is for convenience of identification that I use the label now. However in the end I am a woman not trans, not TG, not MtF . . . just a woman. Okay, when people look at me they don't see it . . . "look a dude in a dress, a tranny, cross dresser or whatever " as there is no mistaking my male physiology. However, it doesn't bother me because I know who I am and I work within the confines of what genetics have dealt me and have grown to accept I will always look like a guy but that does not define my gender only my genetic sex. Will I ever be pretty, petite or the belle of the ball . . . heck no! I still have to shave as my great Northern European ancestral beard just won't let go, while my male physiology is small framed it still screams male when dressed. For example, when I go out for my morning run . . . women's running clothes, not shaved, no make-up, no forms, no tucking (too uncomfortable) and a hat to cover hair which is at an awkward growth stage. Anyone driving down the road would see a guy wearing women's running tights and top. All I see in the mirror before I leave for my run is a woman . . . no not a genetic woman with smooth skin, slender frame and curves in all the right places, but a woman nonetheless.

One comment I want to make is that I see a lot of comments from people trying to define "a CD does this" and "a TS does that". A crossdresser or a transexual does exactly what they want to and it doesn't have to fit a mold or follow a rule/perception.

This statement resonates . . . IMHO, there is not formula or checklist to discovery irrespective of if you are CD or TS (or points in between). There is only your path and when you finish your journey only you can define who you are and what the rest of the world thinks, believes, wishes or whatnot . . . matters not . . . you have have to be happy with who you are, and that is all that counts.

Cheers

Marcelle

[Jazzy Jaz]

Thanks Marcelle and Sue for the feedback as I'm sure I'm one of the ones worthy of it. While I still believe "in general" in the theories behind my metaphors, I do not feel that things are always absolutes and there is definately room for individuals to have experiences that don't quite fit in to the descriptions inwhich I applied. I agree that everyone has their own path and has their own understanding of their experiences and I completely respect that. I was mostly seeking to feel that respect as an inbetweener, I guess I wasn't initially in this thread, but at the moment I do. Zooey, I really like and appreciate the last paragraph in your last post as it offers that respect to all of us.

[becky77]

Jasmine I found your perspective interesting and in no way dismiss inbetweeners, I just think that's a topic in it's own right.

By inbetweener as I understand it you feel you sit in the middle somewhere? From that point of view I don't consider you a Crossdresser I think of you as Transgender.
I know Crossdresser is a broad term but the way I see it is it's (MtF) eg a man that dresses as the opposite sex? It's purely about the exterior look and clothes.

If that's the case then a TS isn't a Cder as they are dressing the same sex and in theory you could argue neither is an inbetweener as they are also following their identity which could go either way, however while an inbetweener lives in the closet presenting as a man to the world they are going to be perceived as a Crossdresser.

Two things I am confused about.
1) I think there are a lot of Male identified Crossdressers that consider themselves to have mixed internal gender, when infact they are confusing a need to dress like a woman or express femininity as an identity, it isn't. It's just a man that has a strong drive to express a feminine look.

2) I don't understand Gender fluid or inbetweener.
Marcelle was the first person to make me believe Gender fluid was possible and then she says actually she is TS. I honestly don't know if it's possible to be two different genders/personalities or if that person is just in denial or deluded? Bit like Bipolar? If that's the case then surely it's a pretty unpleasant way to live?

As for inbetweener how come all those claiming to be in the middle are not more Androgynous? Wouldn't androgynous be the true inbetweener?
If you are in the middle what do you want? To be treated as gender neutral or just to be able to dress girly when you like?

I only ask to learn more.

[Zooey]

Zooey, I really like and appreciate the last paragraph in your last post as it offers that respect to all of us.

You're welcome, and I was never trying to be dismissive of non-binary folks. I will readily admit that, like Becky, I don't really understand them a lot of the time. I also think a lot of CDs use that term (or gender fluid, etc) a bit inappropriately, to describe their perceived "completeness" of their adopted persona when "dressed". I've met a lot of people who will sometimes describe themselves that way, but are really just saying they reject traditional gender roles and activities, which is a very different thing. I have met a few people who genuinely strike me as something else though, and I have a good deal of respect for them (even though I have no idea what their internal monologue could possibly be like).

[JanePeterson]

So I'm very new to this debate, and feel like i may be jumping into shark infested waters here...

But i think focusing on the clothing aspect is important

If you could have a woman's body and be treated as a woman and be forced to wear male clothing,

OR

Wear women's clothing/present female and be accepted as a man with a male body...

In my short experience, if you say yes to option 1, then TS is probably closer to the answer

Another question... Is all this friction a result of trying to apply labels that don't really fit?

I'm not a scientist (but I did stay in a holiday inn express last night) - but when a model or equation produces a ton of outliers, then to me it says more about the limitations of the mode than the data- in this case, all the (insert preferred qualifier to CD thru TS) are a result of our classification being jacked up. As people were driven to categorize, but if the boxes are wrong then it's not going to work... Maybe the whole CD/TG/TS model is incomplete

[Teresa]

MM,
I'm inclined to agree with sometimes_miss.
As members of the forum we should be able to make sense of your CDing but it still comes over as confusing, when someone tries to find an explanation you throw a spanner in the works and deny that you fit into a suitable box. Yes we all need something to fit into for others to understand us, flying off the handle and saying you're officially ****** off doesn't help.

OK you're a big guy with a beard that loves being girly, you say you're OK with it and yet you give SAs a hard time because you confuse them .
I still feel you have issues you haven't come to terms with yet ! I still don't understand the description of your SO , your explanation is confusing.

Sorry MM it isn't a personal attack but every time you explode I become more confused by your comments !

[Jazzy Jaz]

Jasmine I found your perspective interesting and in no way dismiss inbetweeners, I just think that's a topic in it's own right.

By inbetweener as I understand it you feel you sit in the middle somewhere? From that point of view I don't consider you a Crossdresser I think of you as Transgender.
I know Crossdresser is a broad term but the way I see it is it's (MtF) eg a man that dresses as the opposite sex? It's purely about the exterior look and clothes.

If that's the case then a TS isn't a Cder as they are dressing the same sex and in theory you could argue neither is an inbetweener as they are also following their identity which could go either way, however while an inbetweener lives in the closet presenting as a man to the world they are going to be perceived as a Crossdresser.

Two things I am confused about.
1) I think there are a lot of Male identified Crossdressers that consider themselves to have mixed internal gender, when infact they are confusing a need to dress like a woman or express femininity as an identity, it isn't. It's just a man that has a strong drive to express a feminine look.

2) I don't understand Gender fluid or inbetweener.
Marcelle was the first person to make me believe Gender fluid was possible and then she says actually she is TS. I honestly don't know if it's possible to be two different genders/personalities or if that person is just in denial or deluded? Bit like Bipolar? If that's the case then surely it's a pretty unpleasant way to live?

As for inbetweener how come all those claiming to be in the middle are not more Androgynous? Wouldn't androgynous be the true inbetweener?
If you are in the middle what do you want? To be treated as gender neutral or just to be able to dress girly when you like?

I only ask to learn more.

Alrighty, lets see here. Hi Becky and others. I will do my best to answer your questions though everyone keep in mind that this is my understanding/perspective and I in no way intend to discredit or invalidate the perspectives of others.

1) I agree with you that there are many CDers who at some point confuse themselves with being mixed gender, and perhaps later come to realize that they are for the most part a male who CDes. I also believe that there are many TSs who at some point confuse themselves with being mixed gender, and perhaps later come to realize that they are completely the gender opposite of their sex. This would align with your description of Marcelle's experience. Both CDers and TSs can at times confuse their identity for being mixed gender, one of the obvious differences being that they're experiencing this from opposite ends of the spectrum. Now, on the flip side, there are also many mixed gender people who at some point may confuse themselves with being just a CDer and/or TS, and perhaps later come to realize that they are actually a mix of both male/female. To answer your question of whether it's possible to be mixed gender, my experiential answer is yes. It is just as possible as being the opposite gender of your birth sex. What makes mixed gender so confusing is that it borders (with slightly blurry lines) the edges of BOTH poles, and these individuals can't/don't identify with solely one gender (aside from genderfluid folks) and when people from either pole or mixed are confused about their identity it can create further confusion for those trying to understand. Also, what might help those who identify as one gender better understand mixed folks is that it's not as simple as that someones either 100% one gender, 100% the other gender, or a 50/50 mix of both. There are some male bodied (and viceversa) folks who are 20/80 or 30/70 etc of either male/female or female/male and so that will affect their internal identity and possibly how they come across to others. You can be mixed gender but have one of them more dominant than the other depending on your male/female gender balance. This is another reason (different from the confusion reason) why some who say they are mixed gender may come across as sounding more male as well as some sounding closer to TSs. Because of all this blurryness, it's sometimes hard to pin down who's mixed and who's not even for those who are mixed themselves. But there's a point that everyone has the potential to experience when you just know who you are.

Now when it comes to genderfluid, let me clarify, I'm definately not saying genderfluid people identify with solely one gender, definately not long term as in their whole lives anyways. I am not genderfluid and "my" understanding of genderfluid comes from reading the experiences of those folks here. To me, genderfluid reminds me of a wildcard or the queen in chess who can do all the different moves that the other unique/limited players can. A genderfluid person fluctuates and can be temporarily one gender, then temporarily the other gender, and can be temporarily any variation of mixed gender. This is a very special (though I imagine frustrating) ability, as these are the only people I know of who can actually glimpse what it's like to be male, female, and male/female in a single lifetime. One of the frustrating parts of this from what I've heard on this forum is that many of these individuals have no control over when or how often or how long these shifts in fluctuation occur. Honestly, with great respect I'm glad I don't have to go through that.

To clarify, although I'm mixed gender, I don't believe or feel that I have 2 personalities, identities, or spirits. My mixed gender is all blended into one self. I know there are some who do feel or describe themselves that way and I can only simply say thats not my experience.

There are many inbetweeners who dress androgynously and there are also many who don't. We are very diverse like everyone else, though I understand what you're asking. I am one who doesn't generally dress androgynous, though I have worn earings with my male clothes at home and thought "damn, that actually looks alright". For me, although I feel mixed while presenting either way, I simply enjoy dressing as one or the other. I don't really know how to explain this part but I guess it could be like putting on a bussiness suit and heading into the office and feeling ready for bussiness, then putting on shorts and being ready for the beach. Terrible example but so be it. I could wear suit pants and be shirtless in the office or wear a suit jacket and beach shorts at the beach but for me it just doesn't feel comfortable. This example doesn't do justice to those who do dress androgynously and for that I apologize. I guess it really comes down to the internal being more important than the external. Much like a GG or TS woman who is internally female but wears work boots and sweats etc and doesn't care much for makeup or "girly" things, it just is what it is plain and simple (minus the simple part lol).

Jane, to answer your questions about clothing, I understand what you're getting at but I personally don't see the clothing as a determining factor in regards to internal gender identity. If you posed the same scenario to a GG who happens to be totally "girly" and loves dressing feminine and told her that she could keep her female body but in turn had to give up her "girly/feminine" clothes and presentation, and was completely confined to flannel shirts and mens wrangler jeans I'm sure she would totally NOT be ok with that. This is because individuals have unique tastes in clothing regardless of their internal gender identity. There are also GGs who prefer to wear "masculine" clothing and would be equally upset if they were told that they could keep their female body but in turn had to give up their jeans/sweatshirts/workboots etc and HAD to wear dresses/makeup/girly shoes.

I hope these answers help those who had questions or those seeking more understanding of mixed gender and I appreciate the genuine interest and again these are just my perspectives and I'm sure others will add their own perspectives as they see fit.

Oh, to answer your last question Becky, if I was completely out (which I'm not) I would want to be accepted as a mixed person and be accepted/respected which ever way I choose to present.

[PaulaQ]

2) I don't understand Gender fluid or inbetweener.
Marcelle was the first person to make me believe Gender fluid was possible and then she says actually she is TS. I honestly don't know if it's possible to be two different genders/personalities or if that person is just in denial or deluded? Bit like Bipolar? If that's the case then surely it's a pretty unpleasant way to live?

In terms of my gender identity, I'm about as binary as they come, until I realized that I could, in some sense, relate to gender fluid people. I'm not gender fluid in any sense. But I am bisexual, and my sexual orientation IS fluid. There are periods of time when I am *really* into women. There are periods of time when I'm *really* into men. My attraction really does seem to fluctuate over time. It was incredibly confusing. And it was unpleasant, until I stopped fighting it. It also persisted over my whole life, so I never understood it. So I'd think it was probably a similar experience for gender fluid people. Sometimes they feel very feminine, other times very masculine. The gender binary itself may be nearly an alien concept to them, personally. I can tell you that I've struggled for a long time trying to understand how monosexual (interested in only one gender) / monogamous people feel. The stuff we're supposed to say about how we feel about relationships has never seemed natural or normal to me. Based on what I've heard other non-binary people say, I think that is a fair analogy - the most common thing I hear is "I don't understand gender - I'm just ME."

[Secret Drawer]

Thank you Jasminepp, I was starting to feel entirely marginalized by the dialog here, as if (we) who identify as inbetween, as in more to one gender than another within our minds don't count or are somehow fake or insincere... Hard enough to live as it is like this to be (accidentally I am sure) told that you can't somehow be real or are confused...

Androgynous is veering towards a lack of gender all together. I have explored those ideas very deeply, but they make as little sense as me trying to be cis-gendered. I do not know how to BE a cis-gendered woman (stands to reason) or a cis-gendered man (more confusing for people to understand, but not my problem!). So how am I supposed to just choose right now? It takes a couple years of presenting as a woman to get to the point of surgery in most cases, how is it that I am somehow confused or can't be somehow right about how I feel when a true cis-gendered woman, in the wrong body, still must go through this whole process to work it out? I have not had the opportunity to do this, and what does that mean for those that choose to not have surgery, but remain presenting as women?
I hate the marginalization I feel sometimes... It is not fair and this scale of superiority is extremely bothersome.
Paula Q, thank you for trying to relate it somehow, although I don't hedge between man/woman feelings, thus simply remain in a constant state of ... sameness... Could do without the constant anxiety though...

[mechamoose]

What "rules"? Societal rules have no bearing on one's actual self-identity, although they may affect how comfortable one is with expressing it.

Does your wife self-identify as a man, or are you projecting that on them because they're not conventionally feminine? That's a sincere question; it's not clear to me from your post.

As far as I'm concerned, if your wife self-identifies as a man, he's a man - not a woman. Good for him.
If they identify as a non-binary gender, they're whatever they say they are. Good for them.
If she identifies as a woman, then good for her and please stop this line of reasoning.

The same applies for your identity.

She *feels* like a man. No projections. She thinks like one and acts like one, as I do in the reverse.

Would she like to 'swap off'? Yes. Would she ever consider transitioning? No.

So the blanks are filled in, we do pretty much total 'role reversal' at home. She acts like the 'husband' as much as I act like the 'wife'.

- MM

[PaulaQ]

Mine is. I dress in girly things because it feels right. I don't have gender dysphoria in the physical sense. Psychologically, I do. I do not to want to change or to even want to approach genetic reassignment.

I present a male image because I don't have much of a choice. I'm built like an eff'n truck. I still do my nails every week, have hair down to my shoulder-blades, and *love* skirts.

What am I?

There are a lot of possibilities as to "what you are." Really, though, the only person who can answer that is you. I can throw out some terms and see if any of them resonate, but only you can define who you are:
- feminine man
- femme man
- gender queer
- transfeminine
- crossdresser
- bigender

I'm sure there are more. What gender do you feel like internally? Or does that question not even make sense to you? (That is a legitimate response, btw.) Those are key questions - is it your presention, your societal role, your core identity that doesn't match your sex assigned at birth?

Not having gender dysphoria of the sort that makes you need lots of medical care makes you a lucky person. In general, from what you describe, the dysphoria you suffer from seems quite mild. I hate to judge things like that - I'm not in your skin and haven't even met you in person. Maybe you are in constant torment. But you don't express that much if you are.

There are femme guys out there - one of the bi activists I'm acquainted with falls into that category. (It's not just for gay dudes!)

You are the one who picks what you wear though. What message about yourself are you trying to convey with what you wear? Try to ignore the self-deprecating _{"IcouldneverpassI'mtoobigandhairy"} talk. How would you have the world see you and understand you if somehow you could control that?

[mechamoose]

I feel like a girl, dressed up in a (nice) man's body. I *like* what I have. I can move furniture, fix my car, remove spiders, choose nice curtains, cook an *awesome* meal, and SERIOUSLY rock a skirt.

I don't even slightly want to transition. Do I wish I was born into some tiny little 5'2" curvy thing? Yes... but that isn't what I was dealt. I'm (mostly) fine with that.

My personal label is 'gender-queer'. I walk both sides, and I'm not apologetic for it, in fact I'm sometimes quite militaristic over it.

You don't wan't to be the poor slob who shoots off his mouth at me or some brave sister. I *will* come after you. You won't do it twice.

I have done it before, I will do it again.

The message I am trying to convey with what I wear is ME. I don't have to, shouldn't have to, and WON'T feel bad for that.

For all my long floufy hair, painted nails, pretty rings and jewelry, 99% of the comments I get are positive ones.

I live in Massachusetts, though, and I know that makes a difference. Not all of us have that.

It *IS* possible, though.

- MM

[Tina_gm]

Hi again everyone. A lot has come through here since I last posted on this thread. Wish I hadn't been so busy at work lately and some other stuff, but a few things I would like to respond to.

Gendermutt, Femininity is not a starting point. There are many TS that don't particularly wear feminine clothes or makeup.
If you are defining us all on a scale of femininity then you are way way off the mark.

I am not in any way defining anyone on any scale, that is not what I am doing at all

To say we are similar or starting from the same place is the same as saying you don't believe I am a woman and you also doubt Jennifer's masculinity. Why can't Jennifer be masculine yet enjoy embracing femininity too?

I do not in any way doubt anyone's identity. I do not doubt yours, I do not doubt Jennifer's masculinity. Jennifer embracing femininity is part of what I am talking about. Jennifer has femininity to a degree that makes her desire to dress and appear as a woman, in public. I am taking nothing away from Jennifer in terms of masculinity, nor am I taking anything away from your identity as a woman.

Also TS to us NOT an identity, being TS is the symptom of being female with a male body.
You could say it's the diagnosis of what's wrong.

I agree with this, and I have never made any remark of being TS as an identity. It is merely a person who was born in a physical gender opposite their internal identity. When I use the term TS, I use it only to describe someone who falls under that condition, period.

The problem is you are so busy trying to find your own place in all this you don't realise how you dismiss others. I bet you don't think of me as a woman, just a Trans that's gone the full distance?
If you want to compare me to CDers then you haven't respected my identity.
I don't crossdress, neither does Zooey. To us they are not female clothes they are just our clothes.
You wouldn't tell a Cis woman that she is akin to a crossdresser but you would say it to me, think on what that means and how your thought process is.
You simply don't believe in us as women, you can't otherwise you would stop with this argument.

Because I may disagree with you, does not mean I am disrespecting you. Although in reality, I have little disagreement overall. Just a few points of observation that do differ from yours.
1st, I do plead guilty to trying to figure out where I fit in with all of this. That is quite common on this board, a whole lot of us are in the process of figuring out where we are and what our gender variance is and means. I believe very much that someone who is TS is in fact internally a woman At any point where I see something differently does not equal me viewing you or others as anything but what YOU are.

Where I see similarity simply is in the femininity. Femininity is IMO- NOT how a person dresses, presents, acts or has affinities and affections to. IMO- femininity is the reason that they do. It is the starting point, not the end goal as ReineD suggests I am stuck. The starting point simply being that an mtf tg, regardless of where they fall have femininity that a cisgender male does not. Not to the degree.

If the difference was so strongly contrasted as some suggest, then, why so much confusion? why does it take for many oftentimes years to figure out where they stand, both CDers and TS women alike.

Certainly there are CDers who under no circumstances every have any other gender identity than male. For many though, there is a vast grey area which they fall, and their gender identity is just not static. Because YOU do not understand how someone can be anything other than male or female does not mean it does not exist. Certainly, if people exist who are opposite their birth gender internally, and those who are aligned both internally and externally, there lies the ability for some to have internal components to their identity, to their soul that can be both male and female. It doesn't make them TS, and it doesn't TS anymore or any less than who they are. It is just that many, not ALL CDers fall into an area that is non binary, not a black and white contrast. It makes them something other than just male.

[Kimmiestarr85]

Passable CD looking for company kik me at kimmiestarr85 Phoenix az

[bimini1]

So, is there a difference between GG and TS? Or is it the same thing?

[ReineD]

Bimini, the only difference is chromosomes and the ability for biological functions associated with those chromosomes. GGs are XX, and MtF TSs are XY. The gender identity is the same if the TS identifies fully as a woman (I don't know if all MtF TSs identify fully as women).


Edit - There is one other difference - socialization, if the MtF TS was raised as a male and/or lived as a male a significant portion of the TS's life.