Top Secret (DBR)

[Robynts]

My kids have not talked to me in several years (but that is another story). My wife has given me feedback that both kids (boy and girl both engineers) are concerned that my dressing may impact their ability to get jobs that require security clearances. My expectation is that this is a non-issue, particularly in light of Marcelle/Isha's experiences with the military.

Have any of you or your families had issues with security clearances as a result of your dressing or someone in your immediate family dressing?

Thanks for your feedback,

Robyn

[Diversity]

Hi Robyn,
I have not had any such experiences.
Di

[CONSUELO]

Back in the early 1980's I was a distant observer to seeing a man be "outed" as a gay by a vindictive fellow worker. He worked with a large technology company and had a security clearance. The Feds interviewed all his friends and his ex-wife and the poor guy lost his security clearance and his job.

I thought we had moved well beyond that sort of nonsense. Where is the security risk?

[Stephanie47]

The President has issued executive orders that gays, lesbians and transgenders are to be protected from discrimination, and, that order is applicable to government contractors. I think your kids are overreacting. The real thread to security is when something that is illegal or immoral is being hidden. In the days of old when being gay or lesbian was frowned upon or worse, people hid their sexuality. That caused a threat of termination, so they employee became vulnerable.

The real issue here is your kids perspective on dad's cross dressing. If your son or daughter has fear there is some sort of negative consequences due to a cross dressing father, then they are causing the potential security breech. Frankly, if your cross dressing is out in the open and viewed as just something my father does, then a person cannot that information against them.

When I applied for a job with the National Security Agency decades ago, its background check was extensive and thorough. Various federal agents did go to all my former employers and schools to do checks. An agent went through my apartment building ringing everyone doorbells and asking questions. The agents never told them why. I was asked sometimes years later, "What the heck did you do? A federal agent was here asking questions about you!" It can be somewhat of a shock when an agent from the Central Intelligence Agency stops buy to ask questions.

I did background investigations for a different federal agency as a part of my duties. The one thing that did get people fired or not hired was making false statements to a federal agency. It could be something as simple as denying a speeding ticket or DUI or a misdemeanor arrest. The issue was whether or not the employee or potential employee was truth in his or her answers. If you lied you were booted or not hired because you demonstrated you were a risk because if you lie about something inconsequential, then you'll lie about the big things.

Tell your kids, if they are asked if dad is likes to wear women's clothing to just acknowledge it. If the background investigator checks social media and sees activity on your son's or daughter's social media accounts about cross dressing dad, and, they deny it, they should not be hired. I had people fired for less.

[daphne_L]

It won't effect their clearance in the slightest. Unless you are in some strange situation where your kids could be blackmailed into sharing secrets because of your dressing, which is highly unlikely. Security only cares about the risks to the classified data. Just tell them never to lie on clearance paperwork. Security is religious about keeping info on clearance paperwork confidential, so your secrets won't get out either. No need to bring it up, if not asked.

[pamela7]

Stephanie has pretty much summed up exactly what i'd have said: if it's out in the open it's not a problem; secrets are security risks, and so are lies associated with for example blackmailable material. If they tell-all, there's no traction for subversion.

[Teresa]

Robyn,
The circumstances would be most unlikely nowdays, the whole spectrum is recognised and accepted by new legislation , we aren't criminals !

The question could be who checks the checkers ? CDing cuts across society no particular social group has exclusive rites !

[Meghan4now]

Robyn,

Stephanie and Daphne are on the money. I would also take the statement from your wife with a grain of salt. Maybe this is a great excuse to get ahold of your kids. That would be wonderful. I know how dearly you love them, and how proud you are of them.

You need to come up for dinner some time. How about the 18th. Meghan is going to try to make it around 7, and we can grab a drink over at the Fox afterward before heading home!

[Kate Simmons]

Nope, it's a non-issue as others have said. Besides how could you change the past?

[Mark/Rebecca]

How horribly selfish of them.

[Marcelle]

Hi Robyn

I am not sure about the US but in Canada clearances are about the ability to be compromised. If your kids can be blackmailed about your dressing ... it could. I am out publicly so blackmail was not an issue

[Judy-Somthing]

I had security clearance for years working on missile parts. They took me finger prints but didn't check for panties.

Also they never knew that at that point I had been cross-dressing for twenty years.

When I went through the security clearance process no one I new was ever contacted by anyone.

They're only looking for illegal activity.

Unless they find out your a spy dressed as a women!

[Julogden]

Back in the 1990's, a sibling of mine in the military needed a Top Secret clearance and he got it without my dressing being a problem. And I had to pass a background check for my job in order to handle controlled substances and narcotics and again, no problem.

[brandigirl]

I worked in military intelligence and was in charge of processing security clearances and Stephanie nailed it dont lie about it (if your not hiding it then the enemy cant use it as leverage ) it would be more of a problem if you were trying to get one (even though now d@ys its not supposed to matter it does in the aspect that it may be used to blackmail you). Above all dont lie about it.

[Kate T]

Really?? Because that's what I want in people who are charged with the security and defence of my society, people who are unwilling to be tolerant and accepting of diversity.

Time for your children to grow up and take responsibility for their own actions, decisions and lives and stopped trying to tell others (i.e. you) how to live theirs just so they can benefit.

[ReineD]

Something doesn't make sense.

What you do or don't do does not impact your children's jobs. They can tell their employers if need be that their father is TS (I'm assuming this per the last two letters of your forum name) and being TS is not illegal or immoral. As engineers, your children are capable enough to research the issue. A reason for their reluctance to tell employers (in the course of a security clearance) might be a belief that outing you would harm you, assuming there are people in your own profession that you do not want to come out to? So if they are protecting you then why are they not talking to you. Even if they are not protecting you and they haven't done the research to find out that your gender status does not impact them, then again why are they keeping their distance. It's not as if staying away will make you stop dressing and stop being their parent.

If they are choosing to not talk to you because of emotional events leading to broken relationships, then I'm wondering if your wife is wanting to protect your feelings by saying their reason is a fear of background checks. This, I suppose would be easier to hear than their not wanting you in their lives?

Is there something you can do to repair the relationships? You mentioned it was another story and you don't need to get into it here, but have you tried to reach out to them? One of my sons didn't talk to me for three years. He had taken his father's side in the divorce. I can't tell you how painful it was to keep reaching out to him with no response, but my SO and others kept telling me to not give up and so I kept on even though I felt like I wanted to crawl under a rock and die each time there was silence on his end. Eventually he did respond and our relationship has been strengthening ever since ... slowly, but it keeps getting better.

[Heidi Stevens]

Thank you for bringing the kids' ignorance up, Reine. I too have an engineering degree and one of the first tenents you learn in your education is to gather as much info on your subject or task as you can. If the kids are this ignorant or chose not to believe researched data, then I would have to question their engineer training and skill.

No, there is something else going on here between the kids and Robyn that makes the kids blame dad's cross dressing.
But as Robyn has said, that's another story.

[Rhonda Darling]

Robyn:

Since your kids are engineers, maybe they can relate to Lynn Conway's life story. Lynn is a world class electrical engineer, college professer, transexual and trans advocate who, among other things, was honored at the White House by President Obama.

Lynn's truly amazing life story is on her website. This is really content rich, tells about being on the bleeding edge of computer innovation at IBM in the 60s, being outted and fired, and then slowly rebuilding life and career as a stealth TS woman, until finally coming out and living her life fully.

See her amazing story here: http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/conway.html

Hope this helps your kids understand more and not feel ashamed.

Rhonda

[Lena]

The only reason stuff like this raises eyebrows is if you're trying to keep it secret. If you're gay or Crossdresser, etc, and trying to keep it secret, it becomes something that can be used as leverage like blackmail. At least, that's the way it was in the 80s when I had Top Secret.

Of course, my neighbor the drug dealer got the shit scared out of him when the FBI was checking on mine.

[Robynts]

Thank you all for your comments. Now to figure out how to share those comments with kids who are not talking.

[Pat]

Oh boy, I've always wanted to tell this story: Back in the early 1970's I was in the Army and doing a job that required a certain level of clearance. In the place I was, they distinguished between "book stores" and "book shops." Book shops sold novels. Book Stores sold porn. I was in a book store browsing the "Tranny porn" section when my company First Sergeant walked in. He saw me and came over and said,

"You shouldn't be here looking at this stuff. CID watches all the book stores and if they see you here you could lose your clearance."
"Why's that, Top?"
"Because enemies could use the fact you look at this stuff to blackmail you"
"For what?"
"They could threaten to expose you."
"And?"
"And you'd lose your clearance."
"So CID would revoke my clearance because enemies might blackmail me by threatening to tell CID and get my clearance revoked?"
"Yes."

I did leave the book store, but it was to go to a book shop and pick up a copy of Catch-22. I had a sudden urge to re-read it. (No, I didn't ask the First Sergeant why *he* was in the book store.)

[pamela7]

Jennie, we're digressing but girl do i have some stories about the stupidities of security systems and personnel, along the same lines. I remember having a pair of lovely tibetan chimes confiscated at an airport checkpoint while the person in front carried a bottle of wine through. I could have a real rant about these guys and the loopholes they won't see that go with the pointless restrictions they enforce. Anyway, the moral is don't hide your CD, wear it proudly, out in the world.

[ReineD]

Thank you all for your comments. Now to figure out how to share those comments with kids who are not talking.

So just to make sure I have it right, are they not talking to you about the CDing specifically, or are they not talking to you at all.

If they don't want to talk about the CDing but they are talking to you about other things, I wouldn't show them this thread. You might instead show them this link:

https://news.clearancejobs.com/2011/...arance-issues/

Note, there is no mention of transgenderism and this should dispel their fears that your situation would impact them. Or, they can use the information in the link to do their own further research. They might even call the federal agency directly and ask?

But if they're not talking to you at all (which is how I read your OP), then I wouldn't jump right in with telling them the CDing is OK. I would try to reestablish communication first through letters, or birthday cards, emails, phone calls, letting them know you love them and you want a relationship with them. And then build slowly from there. Once you are on speaking terms again, then you could ask if they have concerns about your lifestyle and if the answer is positive, you could give them the above information.

[Eryn]

If it helps, I know two TG people (one CDer, one a TS who transitioned on the job) with black world jobs. Neither had an issue with their clearances.

A parent's being TG will have no bearing on their children's clearances unless it is felt that they can be blackmailed about it. the fact that they don't even bother to communicate their concerns to you directly means that it shouldn't be a concern of yours.

[Sometimes Steffi]

My understanding is the they don't want anyone to be compromised for attempting to hide their CDing. So, if you lie about CDing, you lose your security clearance. If you're open about it, you can't be compromised.

I don't understand how any of this affects your children, but people have been fired for less.