What is it to feel and identify as transgender... Is it a happy middle ground...?

[Pat]

I'll sign on as "happily TG."

I'm definitely on the gender spectrum, not at either end. We keep saying that sex is different than gender and so I am happy to accept that my sex is male, but my gender is -- complicated.

Katey's OP brings up an interesting thing about the TG experience: the visual aspect. That's a key to me as well. Humans are programmed to recognize other humans and we have a sense of what's right about them or wrong when we look at them. There was a thread a while back about how you felt when you first saw "her" in the mirror. To me, the first time I saw "her" in me there was a shock of recognition. That was who I was. The person I had been seeing in the mirror up to then was not.

Now I phrase that as two personalities in one body staring across at themselves, but that's not what I feel. I feel I'm me at all times. At first we don't have the vocabulary to express what we're feeling so often we carve out two personalities since that fits our vocabulary -- there's Patrick who is male and Jennie who is female. But as I learned more (and much from this site) I realized I was always the same person. And I started losing my obsession with "passing" when I crossdressed. Now I'm actually happier that I'll never be mistaken as a real, genetic woman -- that's not what I want people to see. I want them to see a man presenting female (and looking damn good) and being happy with that in-between state. Sex = male / Gender = other.

Achieving the shock of recognition had another side effect -- suddenly I cared about me. Viewed in retrospect I think my previous life could be viewed as long-form suicide attempt. I didn't like the male gender-acting me. So I was a slob -- who cares what he looks like? I was overweight. I was diabetic. I wore clothes that were older than my kids (eldest is 27 at this writing.) Now I care. I dropped 50-ish pounds, my diabetes is asymptomatic and I rarely make it though a week without buying some new bit of clothing that I'm excited to wear. In the morning the first word out of my mouth used to be Crap !!! I was sad to be alive. And now I wake up and wonder what's the perfect thing to wear today?

Sorry -- probably TMI, huh? Here's another observation about the visual aspect though -- and I think it argues that we're recognizing ourselves when we crossdress -- some people say that crossdressers are looking for attention or are closeted gays trying to attract men. We can look at our own closeted cousins and dispute that, I think. Certainly if you read through some of the heartbreaking testimony of what our closeted brethren do to avoid detection you can refute that they're doing it for attention. And since they are closeted or hyper-closeted they're not trying to attract men. They're trying to attract themselves. And certainly when I dress I choose my outfit with some sense of what activity I'm going to be engaging in, but more than anything else, I'm looking to make me happy. (Which interestingly squares up perfectly with what women have always said about their own dressing when the men start trying to shame them for provocative dressing. "It's not for you, it's for me!" they say.)

Is it all visual? Probably not. Underdressers hide what they're wearing. Their enjoyment is in their heads. They don't go past the mirror a hundred times a day to say to themselves "I do her..." It's the knowledge that they're wearing panties or knee-highs or whatever that's driving them. That's filling in the little empty spot that forms when someone on the spectrum tries to pretend he's living at one end.

Now, I have TS friends. I have a TS girlfriend who finished her transition more than a decade ago. I have no doubt in my mind that they are not like whatever I am. The ones I know are definitely women top-to-bottom, front-to-back, every day of their lives. They are TG according to the definition, but they're not TG like I am.

And another thing.... oh! look a bunny!

[mechamoose]

You don't have to look like a girl to attract men, trust me. Traditional men are pretty indiscriminate. After all we can breed our entire lives, GGs don't have that option.

(Most) men are ****s.

Take it from a bi man with a long leash.

BUNNIES!!! (Cute little brown ones, hiding under the bushes)

- MM

[Jenny22]

Do you remember Virginia Prince and her TRANSVESTIA magazine? Other then the library, that was my only non-porn source for information. I did CD only because I had to! There was no term to give to my brain's female feelings, then. With the internet, I learned that I was really TG, a new term for me that fit! I'm happy being TG.

[DTelia]

This may be a little bit of a tangent for this thread...but I there's a strange component in the definition because "who" determines what "femininity" is? I like long feminine hair. But I'm also clearly influenced by the 20-21st centuries that mandate what feminine hair and masculine hair looks like. If it were the reverse, and men were styling their long locks and women were shaving theirs short...would I want shorter hair instead? Same applies to clothing.

I also wonder just how many of us would be into this CDing thing, if we lived 100, 200, 300 years ago when life was much different....when we were more worried about whether our crops were going to make it, whether the cows were milked, etc, than we were about wearing women's clothing. Men/women of those generations were too busy had no access to Internet, movies, TV, etc. I think a lot of our desires have been enhanced and transformed by the modern world.

Perhaps these things don't really related to the original post. I'm just saying that the spectrum of Transgenderism/Crossdressing probably wasn't as broad. Transexuals may be a different matter, especially on the genetic side.

My two cents.

[Pat]

I also wonder just how many of us would be into this CDing thing, if we lived 100, 200, 300 years ago when life was much different...

We didn't always have the words "crossdresser" or "transgender" but there have been people who acted like us in all cultures at all times in recorded history. We are not symptoms of first world problems. I do think that modern conveniences make it possible to ask the questions about ourselves that are coming out now and the communication makes us realize our numbers are such that we have validity.

[NicoleScott]

Katey, good for you for providing a definition of TG. I thought it was to provide a working definition for this discussion, but people are going to use their own anyway.
Note the words "diverse" and "varying degrees". That covers a lot of people, from part-time CDers to transitioned TS. Some people of all kinds say they are TG and some say they are not, for whatever reason they choose.
I think that a very large number of people here use TG to define themselves as "more than CD, less than TS". Not me.
I am an occasional pleasure dresser who always identifies as a guy, and I fall under the TG umbrella, so I am CDer and TG.

[DTelia]

We didn't always have the words "crossdresser" or "transgender" but there have been people who acted like us in all cultures at all times in recorded history. We are not symptoms of first world problems. I do think that modern conveniences make it possible to ask the questions about ourselves that are coming out now and the communication makes us realize our numbers are such that we have validity.

right...of course...but I think we've been influenced...and the internet, etc has opened doors for some and opened them wider for others. Yes, I'm saying there would be fewer of us in those earlier eras.

[TaraGrace]

Hmm, respond or not.. tick tock, hit the reply button..
thanks for the execellent read all, I have to comment here too

Ceera, thanks so much for your first post, that was a 90% match of what I would have written.. slighty strange even to find a match so close to mine.
we split up a bit on your second post, but I might be able to add atleast some info to your text.

So I've only discovered Tara lurking in the background a few months ago, and coming here was an excellent decision, piecing back bits of puzzle talking and reading has at least put my mind at ease that it's not just something I was curious for, but simply put in a wrong tick-box for years.

I don't identify with a man who wants to look female either, just judging by the amount of messages I sent out with hugs/kisses/sweetie/hun etc. whilst not even slightly looking fem.
Nor do I feel as a woman trapped in a male body, I'm quite happy to look at the mirror image of both faces and say "hey you, you look great".

I have however for many years thought my femine side was due to my bi-sexuality, and there is a shoppinglist of clues I simply ticked off as "bi".
Only recently realising that shopping, makeup, conversation etc. it CAN turn me on, but 9 out of 10 times it is not sexual at all.
Which in retrospect wisdom I should have known as even my bi side is prodominantly domminant and not passive.

Like Ceera mentions (and thanks so much for this, I totally forgot I had once quite actively done this), I too have roleplayed as a female.. the internet was new (92-93) and at age 16-17 there were several IRC chat channels I was in as female.
Ok, sure.. I'll admit to some flirting and sexual tension, but 95% it was 'clean' and what teen doesn't enjoy a bit of flirting

As much as I adore TS, and sure a part desires being a complete woman, changing sex from M to F wouldn't fit.. I enjoy both too much, so shapeshifting
Remember "I dream of Jeannie"? The very best childhood dreams were being able to fly.. the second best were having Jeannie power to blink my eyes and switch gender!

.....

Ceera, to add to your second post ;

I can follow why you mention on MPD (and interesting enough my father was the male part of a m/f twin according to my grandmother with the girl dying in labour).
But here we don't align.. I have a constant basic mindset if you will which (symbolicly speaking) I choose to hang centre-left or centre-right.. not left or right.

Tara isn't younger either, although as Tara I am far less experienced, so enclined to seek out new things.
And sure, being Tara enables a more playfull side too, but lets not forget default m/f differences.., just compared to business clothing.. there's a limited amount of male clothing choices, where the female wardrobe can be endlessly mixed and matched.

As for bravery.. hmm, I am lucky to have found confidence and change my life years ago.
So no big differences there, perhaps as Tara I am a bit more direct, but most likely due to catching up, where as certain things in male mode are 'been there, done that'.

But then again, I do share a very similar experience, and yes I do aknowledge that led to some serious denial issues and even homophobia for some years.
Having asked myself the question for years "did these events shape my mind, or even make me the way I am now?"..
I figured out years ago it's a simple "no" -> but it did mess me up and is most likely why Tara was hidden for 20-30 years.
Age 20-25 seemed to take forever, and accepting my bi-sexuality eventually had consumed so much energy, I guess also some overcompensation (hurray world I am bi-sexual) so my mind attributed girlie features or thoughts to being bi-sexual to confirm being bi.
such a pitty I wasted years, but perhaps good, as 25 -> 30 were awesome in confidence building.

So how do I see it.. well, almost like I see bi-sexuality.. it's just a door in my brain opened because I found a key and used it.
Perhaps simply put ; it's like eating/drinking something new and deciding yes, this was nice, let's have some more next time too.
ps, I actually try food I don't like atleast once a year.. since tastebuds changed over the years, it's always intertaining to try

x Tara

[mechamoose]

So how do I see it.. well, almost like I see bi-sexuality.. it's just a door in my brain opened because I found a key and used it.
Perhaps simply put ; it's like eating/drinking something new and deciding yes, this was nice, let's have some more next time too.
ps, I actually try food I don't like atleast once a year.. since tastebuds changed over the years, it's always intertaining to try

People are people. If someone is cool, they are cool. What does it matter what bits they have, especially in THIS community?

GMs and GG's are different. They smell different, they taste different. Both have their own attractions and repulsions.

You either like them or you don't.

Please don't conflate your desires with your identity. They have nothing to do with each other.

- MM

[Robin414]

I was just over at the makeup counter and heard the conversation...it's kinda loud 😉 Wow MM, you know how to speak your mind, but that's why I'm a MM fan! 😀

Back to trying out new nail polish colors....☺

[Dana44]

Katey, great thread... As you all know I am gender fluid. It is a strange thing as we are not comfortable in our own skin as one gender. It does put us in the middle of the TG spectrum. But it seems that over time one drifts closer to one gender than the other. Hopefully it goes back toward the birth gender. As a male who gets to express his fem side. Well, the fem side seems better, but is it really. As a male I've accomplished many great things and am still doing it. But this male is getting more and more feminine all of the time. I would never transition fully to a female as I could never be comfortable with that either. A very strange place to be.

[mechamoose]

I swerve all over that road and line like a Scotsman on a late Friday night.

There is no single correct answer. We each have to answer for ourselves about identity and courage to express it. Our own risks and gains.

Buy seriously, it may be RELATED to sexuality, bit it ISN'T sexuality. Different issue, honest.

- MM

[Zoe B]

I was not entirely sure if I should hit the reply button or not, I have been reading all your comments and it has been an amazing read from beginning to end. Nervous as I am I thought I should get my opinions down now.

When I first started dressing I would have put myself in the cross dressers category, but more recently I have started to discover that it is more than that, I am currently a student on a gender studies course and while I have been working through the CD-TG-TS section I have come to realize that Zoe is me or at least a part of me that I have to express and not exclusively through dressing.

Yes I am predominately male and I am happy being so but there is a part of me that I just can't keep hidden or ignore, enter Zoe she allows me to express my more feminine side and see things in a very different way to my male side. Yes I dress and I use that to show me in my full capacity as me. I do not want to switch to being a female full time as I would miss my male persona. But I find that I have to allow myself to be feminine in all aspects or I start to lose myself.

I am sure I am rambling by this point so I will apologize right now but I didn't want to miss the opportunity of responding this time.

Zoe

[mechamoose]

When that self comes out, it *won't* go back in the box, no matter how hard you try. It will pop up over and over. Accept it an embrace it, you don't really have a choice anymore.

Providing that you are being truthful with yourself.You have identified a change, go with it.

The wheel turns...

- Mystical Moose

[Pat]

Darn rabbit. Got away. Again.

So I'm thinking about this:

1) I think there are a lot of Male identified Crossdressers that consider themselves to have mixed internal gender, when in fact they are confusing a need to dress like a woman or express femininity as an identity, it isn't. It's just a man that has a strong drive to express a feminine look.

And I'm reminded of an old story that you all probably know but I'm going to tell anyway. Scroll past it -- I'll leave a marker.

There were once three blind men who heard a wonderful story about an elephant, but didn't know what an elephant was. They asked the storyteller and he said, "Dude. It's an elephant. It like an elephant. That's what elephants are like. If you don't know, I can't explain it to you."

This left the men unsatisfied, so they went to a zoo and snuck into the elephant pen. One of them walked up to the elephant and grabbed it's leg and said, "Guys! Guys, guys, guys! I understand now! An elephant -- it's like a tree trunk!"

But his friend walked up to the elephant's tail and touched it and said, "No, an elephant -- it's like a rope!"

But the third had grabbed the elephant's trunk and said, "No, no, an elephant is like a snake." And they all started to argue about what an elephant was based on their experience.

============

Now in this metaphor people who are not transgender are blind to us, and we are the elephant (in the room.) Thankfully they want to understand us and they approach us with the tools at their disposal to understand. But what they may perceive is a man who has a (mere) desire to dress like a woman, not an identity. And to an outside observer who can't know what we feel and does not want to accept what we say we feel, that's a plausible explanation. But it's wrong.

Probably it's a benefit that they don't have to accept our explanation, they just have to accept that we accept it and not try to fix us.

There's that bunny again... this time he's MINE!

[becky77]

Katey, great thread... As you all know I am gender fluid. It is a strange thing as we are not comfortable in our own skin as one gender. It does put us in the middle of the TG spectrum. But it seems that over time one drifts closer to one gender than the other. Hopefully it goes back toward the birth gender. As a male who gets to express his fem side. Well, the fem side seems better, but is it really. As a male I've accomplished many great things and am still doing it. But this male is getting more and more feminine all of the time. I would never transition fully to a female as I could never be comfortable with that either. A very strange place to be.

Dana44 You are very vocal on saying you are Genderfluid. As I understand it that means that your very identity swings from male to female?
But are you being honest with yourself? Is your gender truly fluid or do you just want to dress as a woman sometimes and at other times not?

I ask this as I'm not sure everyone is being truthful in regards to identify vs expression.

For example in a previous thread you said this:
Lexi, that is a great point. I do think that some ... do think we are good. They are most likely shocked. For why I do not know. Women crossdresss virtually every day and never ask what we thought of them or why it may have bothered us. I said before in a forum that in fact with many men that I have talked to was that if she doesn't get in heels soon a divorce may be coming. Men want a woman that looks like one. Now the rolls seemed switched. It's funny that we set the fashion every time we go out wearing skirts while every woman out there has pants on. When a woman come into a store in a nice skirt and heels. All of the men look at her with admiration. So women crossdress as men - no problem. Men crossdress as women - problem? Yeah I agree... they pine on it for sure.
I must say that my SO wears a dress or miniskirt when we go out. I have told her that I truly appreciated that.

I'm sorry but I do not believe a woman or someone claiming to have a part woman identity would ever say this.
I would expect if you were truly gender fluid you would understand why that opinion is just wrong and frankly misogynistic. It smacks of a sexualised ideal of a woman not someone with genuine female empathy.

I'm not saying being Gender fluid is a myth but so far I haven't seen an honest example other than Marcelle. Who now admits to being TS.
I'm genuinely intrigued and wish to learn but I fear a few people just can't be honest with themselves. My main confusion being that each time I ask why someone feels they are in the middle they inevitably talk about being feminine in a way that borders on stereotyping.

What I want to hear about is the internal dialogue, those feelings of being different and how it surfaces in a relationship and social interactions.
How does it come out in friendships etc.The clothes are meaningless when it comes to true Gender identity.
For example if you are closeted but out with friends how does your mixed gender surface, are your friends also mixed?
Forgetting for now about the dressing does being dual gender cause issues with being intimate with someone?

Hope you don't mind the questions but this is a great learning tool.

[mykell]

hi becky,

the original aspect was transgender, an umbrella term which i felt i answered honestly i believe.......

as for gender fluid, i do feel that i am fluid, how to convey why......during parties and events i will say i gravitate to a womens circle of conversations, even in my support group. sometimes with the transmen ? ( think thats the right term ? ) while talking with them i am not as comfortable with... like when im in a circle of macho guys and move off to find better conversation, now of coarse their are times when i enjoy the banter and camaraderie when hanging out with guys as well....just more comfortable with the ladies, this goes back as far as i remember, even played and hung out with the girls in the neighborhood, barbie and whatnot, but still played in little league and stuff....

as far as relationships, sex, dont want to embellish on it in the open forum....

when in a mall i could shop for hours in guy mode with my wife and window shop all the time, but my preference is the ladies section and womens shops, male clothes are minimalist and basic for me, 6 pirs of shoes and sneaks all black, always interested in the looks and colors of womens fashion, not just wearing them....

would rip out every root of hair on my body if it would not piss off my wife, but have been shaving my legs for the first winter after cajoling my wife, will not be pleased when i have to start letting it come back in for the summer....

so im me and im me whichever way i dress, male is just easier, more accepted, conventional, just started getting out dressed female and it seamed to easy but i have very limited time with the natives in the wild....

[Pat]

I'm not saying being Gender fluid is a myth but so far I haven't seen an honest example other than Marcelle.

What I want to hear about is the internal dialogue, those feelings of being different and how it surfaces in a relationship and social interactions.

OK, I'll ignore the implication that we need to satisfy you to get our transgender identity approved and suggest some things you *ought* to be looking for. One is the recurring theme of behavior traceable back to early childhood. Frequently it's pre-pubescent which argues it's not a sexual trigger though it could still be a desire to emulate a female figure in the person's life -- Mom or a sister, say. If you go down the road of emulation, then you have to examine why they desire to emulate that person when so many other males do not. It could argue an emotional cause (momma's boy) or it could argue that there is recognition of a female role model because that role is "baked in" to that person. Ducks can be brought up imprinted on humans, but they're always ducks. Perhaps for some little boys can be brought up to be males but they'll alway be that other thing -- if you're willing to admit that other thing exists.

Then examine (and believe) the stories of people who describe their first conscious encounter with their female identities. Frequently those people describe an emotional shock on seeing "her" for the first time. Again, a shock of recognition. I'd say recognition that a suppressed part of their identity has been revealed. The experience is not unlike when you stop telling a complex lie or, more colloquially, when you stop hitting yourself with a hammer. The person suddenly realizes they should have been that all the time. Often coupled with unbidden tears.

Then consider the testimony of people who describe dressing for "stress relief" or how they dress more in times when there's stress in their lives. Compare that to relationship stress where couples argue about inconsequential things when the problem in their lives is sex. The mechanism is that externally they're in a fierce argument over whether butter belongs in the fridge or out of it, but the argument is really about sex -- but they don't want to talk about that, internally they're saying to themselves "I'm not putting up with our sex life and the butter too!" so they argue about the butter. People describing themselves talk about dressing relieving the stress in their lives, but it's just as plausible that the underlying, constant stress is NOT dressing (i.e. not acknowledging their mixed state) and adding external stress puts them over the edge. The clothes, in fact, are just clothes. But they are a focus. They invoke the female component of their personality that they've been suppressing so they can be Good Men.

Their internal dialog may not be apparent because we haven't (yet) taught people how to handle a transgender life. We provide no role models of what a successful transgender person looks like or behaves, so everyone is stumbling around in the dark trying to fit bits and pieces together. Yeah, we don't have a good story to tell the transgender deniers yet.

Transgender people I know have passed through the world of "manly men" reasonably well. They've learned their duties and responsibilities as men and can doggedly stick to them. (I did.) They are often alienated from manly men and don't know why. They are often creative loners because they have difficulty establishing common ground with other men and they are unwelcome in the world of women. In my case when I finally felt that I had discharged all my responsibilities I started "moving more toward the feminine side" meaning I started not pretending to male feelings I didn't have and stopped fighting against more feminine feelings that I do have. As a result, I'm more social, I'm healthier and happier and allowing for the fact I look a little weird to people judging me male (and it's hard not to -- I have male characteristics) I'm actually a more well-adjusted person than I was before. I do find that now I have a certain body dysphoria -- I can't stand hair growing out of me except on top of my head -- it offends me. I try to make my skin look and feel smoother than a man's skin so I wear subtle makeup even in "male mode." It's not the same dysphoria my TS friends have -- I don't have any issues with my genitalia or want to see bits of myself harmed.

So, am I really transgender? Am I really somewhere between male and female or do I just have a strong desire for a female appearance? Apparently you're the judge.

[Dana44]

Becky, when I wrote that part way back. I was likely in my male persona. Aka gender fluid is switching between male and female. But as any thing goes it can swing one way for a while and sometimes at the wrong time if you are in male mode doing something important. Had that problem all of my life, it took me awhile to find out what it was. There are probably not a lot like me here. But on other sites there is a a great discussion on it Gender fluid is real and many people have it. Not all are cross dressers. There is so few of us here that when one asked to make it a thread it did not get made. So, if you take things out of context here, I may be male when i posted or female on other posts. So heck yeah it may not be a womanly post.

[TaraGrace]

People are people. If someone is cool, they are cool. What does it matter what bits they have, especially in THIS community?

GMs and GG's are different. They smell different, they taste different. Both have their own attractions and repulsions.

You either like them or you don't.

Please don't conflate your desires with your identity. They have nothing to do with each other.

- MM

hiya Moose, I honestly tried to understand but I really can't.. so I have to ask.. did you quote me by mistake?

x Tara

[reb.femme]

An articulate reply, so I've just pulled a few bits out for comment.

OK, I'll ignore the implication that we need to satisfy you to get our transgender identity approved and suggest some things you *ought* to be looking for...

Couldn't have put it better myself. I am me and couldn't give a damn that Becky777 doesn't appreciate that we define ourselves.

...Transgender people I know have passed through the world of "manly men" reasonably well. They've learned their duties and responsibilities as men and can doggedly stick to them. (I did.) They are often alienated from manly men and don't know why. They are often creative loners because they have difficulty establishing common ground with other men and they are unwelcome in the world of women...

Strange, but this is me to a T, if you'll pardon the pun. I used to be a definite part of the male grouping (ex-military etc) but this has changed over the years and I can't stand being a part of the stereotypical group anymore.

...So, am I really transgender? Am I really somewhere between male and female or do I just have a strong desire for a female appearance? Apparently you're the judge.

In a nutshell. I/we are the final arbiters of our situation. This place, as the stock line goes is a spectrum of people, with very different and personal drivers.

Becky

[becky77]

Apparently you're the judge.

Not at all, I only know how I feel.
I experienced a lot of what you say and struggled with confusion. I was raised as a boy so did my best to fit that role, I've been through all the same emotions I would imagine or at least similar.
Ten years ago maybe I would be answering differently, I was very much in denial and actually thought TS people to be the real weirdos. Frankly it scared me.

I'm now following my heart because my head has deceived me, I mention honesty not because I'm calling people out, more because I know how I lied to myself but only therapy made me realise that.

I'm reading all this with interest wondering what is the fine line between TG and TS, it seems most of you aren't fighting against it. Sure there is frustration that you just can't be but I see an element of balance that was impossible for me.


Dana44 with the personality shift do you also have mood swings and does this change of thought process cause any issues at work, anyone ever notice your change in attitude?

If I was a bit younger I think I would like to train as a gender therapist, there is still so much unknown and objectively it's fascinating.

Couldn't have put it better myself. I am me and couldn't give a damn that Becky777 doesn't appreciate that we define ourselves.

I do appreciate it? I don't dispute a Transgender identity although I think that just scratches the surface, TG is more an umbrella description it's a little too vague to truly understand what people are experiencing internally.

I just don't think being feminine is any kind of guide.
I'm pretty feminine myself and that in the past has made me question what I'm about.

[Dana44]

Becky,
This thread explains some of the thought process of my switch over. I'm a DES kid and I think the synthetic estrogen that washed over my brain caused the male/female to switch off an on over time. It has been that way for my whole life. So I wrote it down.
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...t=gender+fluid
Ah, I could not figure how to copy that link and paste it in. you will have to copy that to the address bar.

[desertrider]

Ceera, you gave me shivers with your description of the two sides of your personality. You may be in my head...is this common for anyone else out there?

That is a big part of what has put me on the TG spectrum. Not to mention the improved body image, etc.

I never conceived of having dysphoria before I started CD though, so it's possible I have gender euphoria instead =P

hugs

[Pat]

I'm reading all this with interest wondering what is the fine line between TG and TS, it seems most of you aren't fighting against it.

To me, I think one of the key differences is that TS folks on the whole back the binary gender concept, which makes sense because they need to get from one extreme to the other. Often TS people, using their experience to interpret the experience of others, think of the gender spectrum as just a period of confusion that truly TS people go through when they're still on the road to discovering they're TS. You'll see that expressed on this very forum in places. It's reasonable to interpret things based on your life experiences but at some point you have to accept other people's evaluation of their own situation or just accept that you don't understand.

So if you read the postings from TG/Crossresser people here when they self-identify they'll say "I'm a guy who..." or "I'm perfectly happy being a guy." a phrase I've never heard a TS say. I was reading an article just the other day by a doctor talking about his perspective on transgender children and he was saying when he hears a boy who says "I am a girl" instead of "I feel like a girl" or "I want to be a girl" he pays attention because he's never had one recant after that statement.

So I totally believe that TS folks know what's going on for themselves. And they have role models because they can point at the "opposite" sex and say, "I'm one of those. I need to act like one of those and look like one of those and have all the rights and privileges, duties and responsibilities of one of those." But TG/Crossdresser/Genderfluid/Genderqueer/in-betweener folks can't say "I am a" because there's no word to end that thought. At least not until we validate that the in-between exists and give it a name. And we don't have examples in our lives that we can look at as children and recognize ourselves at an early age. So sometimes it takes a long time to know who/what we are. And in that time we've been taught how to be male or female and we have had a lot of practice as "passing" as our assigned gender so when we do realize we're not exactly that we try to understand the other part of ourselves and perhaps we use bad analogies or say sexist/stereotypical things because we're trying to understand this elephant when we've never seen one. Our act ain't smooth and polished yet. 100 years from now I'm hoping we'll have the knowledge and infrastructure to smoothly say who we are and not confuse the cis-gendered nor the TS. All I can say is if you think it's confusing for you, I can promise it's moreso for us. We're not a thought experiment to ourselves, we have to live this life.