Do you ever get jealous of your SO

[ReineD]

Reine, though I agree with most of what you say most of the time, I definately disagree with most of your second and third paragraphs, particularly the part about having to have a female body to be female. That is simply not true, just ask most TSs. A pre op MtF TS is totally a female even before HRT and SRS, they are just doing the best they can to be in a female body to match their female identity.

Sorry, but you misunderstand. I fully agree that MtF TSs are females in the wrong body, even before HRT and SRS. In fact, it is so intolerable to be perceived as a male that they change this. Full time. To everyone. Despite the consequences. The paragraph you refer to speaks of TSs who find it so intolerable to be male, that they do transition to live as women full time, with legal name changes, in front of everyone. This was not just meant to describe GGs.

There are many of us TG folks who dont fit the gender binary (inbetweeners) and are both male and female at varying degrees, while Im in the middle,

Yes, I know this. My own SO is gender-fluid. He used to identify as a crossdresser, then as bigender, then as gender-fluid, and then as trans-gender meaning someone whose gender is not part of the gender binary. This means that my SO does not identify as a female (females are the other end of the gender binary). Else no doubt my SO would transition. Most of the time my SO lives as a male (this is why I refer to him as "he"). When he is dressed, I refer to her as "she" and I call her by her female name. But, my SO does not feel torn in two, pining away to dress when it is his choice to present male. Nor does he resent it when I dress up (the rare times that I do ... we just don't have that lifestyle ). I think there is no inner pull because my SO has fully embraced everything s/he is, and he knows she can dress whenever she wants to.

[PaulaQ]

That being said I think the woman in me gets jealous of her sometimes because she can wear what she wants when she wants. So I start resenting her for being a gender born woman. If that makes sense. I know she loves me for me and doesnt judge me the way I am. Now dont get me wrong I dont want to transition, I do like being male at times. Its just most other times I wish I was female more.

So change. I wear whatever I want whenever I want it. You could too. Sure, there's consequences for that, but then there are consequences for the way you are feeling now too. And don't believe that your SO doesn't pay consequences for being a woman. She surely does.

The clothes are not a very sensible thing to be jealous about, in my opinion. What your SO gets, that you do not get, really, is the ability to be herself far more than you get to be, and the ability to be herself in public.

[Teresa]

Lily,
I would say bury your resentment, you're a very lucky person.Don't push it too hard and lose what you have, stepping back isn't easy that's when resentment can set in !

[lily1974]

Well please forgive my use of words that people tend to use or interpret incorrectly. Jealous by definition in one meaning means to be envious of something someone else has. Not a hatred towards them.

Now when I say the woman in me I do mean as such. Call me odd, call me what you will. When I am dressed to the nines I feel as though I am a woman trapped in a mans body. Call it a controlled split personality I guess. For me when I dress its all I can do to not run away and be full time woman. I want to go out be seen as a woman and live as a woman. I may go through days of this. "Envyous" of every woman around that she is born with lady parts and can give birth. Dress in pretty clothes and being known as a woman doesnt make you a woman. Its what you percieve in your head that does. Reality kicks in and I am here stuck with male parts and unable to do anything about it. Then I may wake up the next day or two later and say I am a guy I was born a guy and should be a guy. Because no matter how hard I try I will always be a guy. At least in body I always will be. I accept it and come to terms with the fact that yes I have male parts. I will never be able to tell my family I want to be a girl so I might as well enjoy being a guy. So I do. I put on my macho hat and be a rough rugid guy. And I have fun doing it. Okay so maybe its not a split personality but it is a split decision of what I want to be. Do I have to make up my mind? In my head, no. Why cant I be both? Who makes the rule that I have to be one or the other?

On the other note of me buying her things. I assure all of you that she gets her share and then some. Unlike alot of the crossdressers I dont have a full wardrobe of female clothes. I may have enough clothes with both my male and female clothes to fill half a 4 foot hanger rail. While she has enough to fill probably 6 eight foot hanger rails and 5 dressers. I have 5 pairs of shoes including my girl ones to her 30 closer to 40 pairs. She is a bit of a shopaholic I have feed out of guilt. I know its wrong but it makes her happy.

Okay yes she could probably be happy if I never dressed again. However she knew coming into our relationship that I had baggage you could say that would take time for me to tell her. She also was well aware that I don't plan to nor will I ever re marry. She also knew that kids are out of the question. Both are points we seem to be revisiting on occasion. Having been married twice before I have always tried to be upfront and honest with her. Some things are just harder to tell people until you are comfortable with them yourself. I know for the longest time I lied to myself about my femme side, much less tell someone else or her that I feel better being presented as a woman. Its just not something I was raised to talk about. So in answer to your question of how she feels about me being a woman. Well I am not sure. I have tried to talk to her about it but shyness and fear tends to slow the conversation on both sides. I have been giving her plenty of space as she reads all the books she can on it. I am in no way putting preasure on her to have an answer

Ps I didnt mean to use the word resent in the original post. Again me using words incorrectly.

[SIZE=1]- - - Updated - - -[/SIZE]

After rereading that post I am just going to shut up. It is in no way coming out the way I want things to sound. Sorry folks.b

[MissVirginia-Mae]

Reine,
By off topic, I was referring to Tracii asking for pictures....thats what I meant.
Frankly, im sorry I even posted anything to start with.
I will defin steer clear next time.

[SherriePall]

I'm going to jump into this fracas by saying, yes, I am envious of the way my wife looks, especially when she wears a skirt or a dress and I catch a glimpse of her legs in nylons.

[ReineD]

First, Lily, I’m sorry if I wrote anything to upset you. I’m wanting to impart how most GGs feel about being women (in a very general sense), in an effort to get you on the same page. Second, we all have baggage. I don’t like to think of it as baggage, it’s just stuff that gets added on to our personalities as we age, it’s being human. No one is perfect. In fact, it is all our facets that make us the truly unique and lovable human beings that we are.

I want to go out be seen as a woman and live as a woman.

But what does this mean. In what way do you think that a woman’s life is different than yours if she is your age and also has a day job. We deal with frustrations at work just like men. We feel pressure to perform at work and meet deadlines just like men. At the end of the day we come home tired, just like men. We eat dinner, then have the evening free to do what we want with it just like men. We don’t spend our evenings dressing up.

But, there are two things that set the average woman apart from crossdressers. One, we are not attracted to women, even if they are sexy, pretty, beautiful, young, etc. Two, we don’t experience the heightened feelings you get when you wear makeup and pretty clothes. Granted, you describe your wife as a shop-o-holic and this may influence the priorities you think that average women have, and I’m sorry for that. But you need to understand this does not describe most women, if you take into account all ages, all body types, all socio-economic backgrounds. When most of us dress, we put on things we’ve worn countless times that are not special. We wear the same things to work, to church, to go out for dinner and a movie, to hang out with friends. Once in a while we’ll get all dressed up for a special event and even when we do this, we are not constantly reminded that we are wearing a fancier outfit, our hearts don’t lift at the thought of what we are wearing or what earrings we have on or how lovely our boobs look. So CDers who feel this way are not feeling like women, they are feeling like crossdressers who particularly love feminine beauty, feminine clothes, and crossdressing. And there’s nothing wrong with that! But, women just don’t experience these heightened feelings, they simply focus on the business of doing what they’re doing and talking to the people they are talking to, even when they’re all dressed up.

In this thread, one member described wanting to fill out clothing with natural bust and curves. For the most part we don’t think about how our busts and curves look when we’re dressed, we take it all in like we do our knees and ears … they’re all a non-thought. In fact most women wear clothing designed to be practical, not to show off their busts and curves. Just look around you. Another member described dressing up to the nines all the time and because of this, looking better than most women. Again, this is not what it is about or how most women live nor is this a priority for most women who go about their day-to-day lives.

I realize that I may be saying something sacrilegious here, but being a woman is not about looking particularly pretty. Lily, if someone told you that you could be a woman as long as you looked like the average woman you see at the mall (middle aged, jeans, sneakers, no makeup, regular hair, likely packing on a few pounds with a square-ish torso), is this the way you’d want to be? If the answer is no, if the answer is you want to be stylish and attractive (or maybe sexy), then your attraction is not to being an average woman (assuming you’re an average man). It is to a particular feminine style that is appealing to just about every other man on the planet.

Here’s an example. You’re in Texas. This is recent article about people shopping in a Dallas mall with a picture of what two average women are wearing, the SA and a customer. If someone told you that living like a woman is looking like that, would you want to do it full time? Because this is what being a woman looks like. And what it feels like, is just the way I’ve described it in paragraph 1.

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/commu...y-shopping.ece

And last, I'm not in a position to say whether you are transsexual or not. You posted this thread in the CD section and you brought up a topic that is common to crossdressers, and so I assumed you are a crossdresser, given that you said you like being male. If having a male body and being perceived as a man by everyone you know is intolerable, it is my deepest wish that you will find the courage to change this and do what it takes to transition and if you do, all will go well for you.

[sometimes_miss]

No longer have an SO, but my ex wife, when we got married, had the figure that I wish I did. By the time we got divorced, she no longer was attractive, having let herself go quite a bit, I'm guessing because she may have felt what I was attracted to was also somehow the cause of her unhappiness.

[Tina_gm]

I am going to try to help keep this thread on the rails here. I think though that a better word than jealousy would be envy? Jealousy is envy but with negative impact, and typically will cause people to wish or to act in ways to bring the person whom they are jealous at or with, down.

Yes, there are times when I am envious of my wife. It is not something I feel every minute of every day. But, it is the same something I envy of women in general, so my wife being a woman is just women envy that I think many CDers have to some degree or another.

Hope this helps.

[NylonMan]

I am envious of my GF every time we go out. She knows this and teases me all night. She is good about it though and lets me wear whatever she had on that night after we get home.

[Tina_gm]

But what does this mean. In what way do you think that a woman’s life is different than yours if she is your age and also has a day job. We deal with frustrations at work just like men. We feel pressure to perform at work and meet deadlines just like men. At the end of the day we come home tired, just like men. We eat dinner, then have the evening free to do what we want with it just like men. We don’t spend our evenings dressing up.

From what I have read from the GG's on this site about their S/O's who are identified as CDers, one of the bigger frustrations from the GG's is how many of the CDers who think that every single thing they do (when dressed) has to be some super ultra feminine way of doing it. Many CDers when dressed, will take on some ultra barbie helpless persona, rather than just being otherwise normal accept for the female clothing. That actually is closer to being a regular everyday woman than what their altered persona is.

[Liz57]

I understand. I'm a little jealous myself. It just seems so cool to be a woman but that does have its drawbacks too. I'm happy with what I've got right now, but I do see your point in a lighthearted sort of way.

Liz57

[Maria 60]

I think she gets jealous of me at times. I don't know why but it seems like my wife grew out of her dressing like a princess feminine phase. She doesn't own any pantyhose, she buys tons of summer dresses and never wears them, of coarse I don't mind because a few months later she's giving them to me with the tags still on them. I don't know why she just tells me she could be so much more comfortable wearing shorts or jeans, but then she gets upset with me when I dress up all feminine. She is the same as your wife, doesn't mind it as long as she controls and predicts how far it goes, I don't mind it's where I want it to be anyway, but once in a while I have to push the limits just to send the message that she's not in full control. I guess our girls are ok.

[Jazzy Jaz]

I apologize Reine if I misunderstood your post. Your sentence " Being female is about having a female body, a female name, and being known as a female by everyone who knows you, all the time including all family, friends, and at work and not ever being male" confused me and left the impression that in order to be female, you can't at all be male and in order to be male, you can't at all be female which would leave no room for someone like me to exist. If your sentence was meant to describe requirements for being "completely female" then that might be more accurate, but I don't recall lily claiming to be "completely female", I believe she was describing being part female which doesn't exclude the ability to also be part male. Also, "the average woman" doesn't encompass ALL women. The fact is there are SOME women who do experience hightened feelings in relation to makeup and fashion. Although most women don't experience these hightened feelings, many young girls do as they don't have the same ability/permission to wear makeup and dress up the way women do. It is still new and very exciting to many of them. I was in value villiage recently with my 5 yr old daughter and she quickly spotted a pair of 6inch patent fuschia stillettos, raced over and tried them on and planned on wearing them throughout the store while I had to catch up and gently encourage her to put them back on the shelf. She also gets those hightened feelings on the rare occasions that she is allowed to put on lip gloss and eye shadow and when she plays dress up. She will probably outgrow those hightened feelings as those experiences become normal and routine and like you said will go about her daily business without thinking much about what she's wearing. Many of us TG folks are more like young girls than women when it comes to these "hightened feelings" regarding clothing and makeup because for many of us it hasn't become normal or routine yet. We're still at the having fun playing dress up stage. Doesn't mean we arn't part female. I've heard many of the folks on this forum who do dress regularly describe that they no longer have those hightened feelings for the most part and that it instead feels like everyday routine, and I'm not referring to the TSs. Regarding curves and bust, you're right, most women probably don't spent too much time worrying about how their bust looks or how they fill out their clothes, as long as they feel general comfort and confidence. But what about a woman who loses one or both breasts to cancer. Im sure many in her position do focus on how their body does ( or doesn't) fill out their clothing and how their body doesn't adequately fulfill what they feel is missing. I bet they do look at other women and envy the physical traits that they wish they could have themselves. This is what many inbetweener TG folks feel but instead of losing the parts we yearn for we never got to have them and are always looking through the window envying from outside. I also know there are many so called average women who do envy more curvy women and wish they could aquire those attributes, the cosmetic/fashion industry is built on that whether it should be or not. The average woman may not be attracted to curves or bust or pretty beautiful sexy women like many of us on this forum are, but Im sure many lesbians are. Im sure many of them appreciate a nice bust, probably enjoy seeing it dressed in nice sexy packaging as well. This does not take away the fact that they are female. Likewise, a male bodied TG person can both be part female (or completely if TS) and still have the ability to appreciate the superficial/sexy aspect of women. What many don't seem to understand is that being part female AND being sexually attracted to females, plus also being part male, means that you can feel what many women feel on the inside AND see and enjoy what many men and lesbians see on the outside and these feelings blend into a unique experience that niether complete men or complete women seem to comprehend. Someone can tell me that Im not completely female but no one can tell me that Im completely not female.

Also, yes, having the body of an average woman would be fine.

With respect
Jasmine

[PaulaQ]

Just so that people in this thread are aware of this, there are "average" cisgender women who ARE attracted to other women. They are called lesbians or bisexuals. For that matter, there are lesbian and bisexual transgender women.

There are just women who are attracted to other women - so there are some women who have something in common with most of the CDs here.

Just an FYI because heterosexual privilege, and all.

[phili]

Feeling jealous or envying is natural, but is also a self-induced corrosive poison. It feels so much better for us [and everyone around us] to keep our focus on what we have, not what we don't have!

I was amazed to find that once I really let myself feel feminine, there was clearly no conflict with my male body. Poof- no more hopeless jealousy. I can let myself daydream of being shaped differently, but I shortly realize my time is better spent finding clothes that fit me well and convey the feeling I want them to convey. That's what we all have to do, men and women alike.

Besides, the grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence. I've known lots of women who struggle in various ways with their breasts, and I'm glad I don't. I don't need to wear a bra- so yay! fewer straps and clothing layers to manage.

[ReineD]

First I'd like to get this back on track,

I was amazed to find that once I really let myself feel feminine, there was clearly no conflict with my male body. Poof- no more hopeless jealousy. I can let myself daydream of being shaped differently, but I shortly realize my time is better spent finding clothes that fit me well and convey the feeling I want them to convey. That's what we all have to do, men and women alike.

Well said. Thank you. My SO feels the same way.

Next, I'd like to address Jasmine's post:

I apologize Reine if I misunderstood your post. Your sentence " Being female is about having a female body, a female name, and being known as a female by everyone who knows you, all the time including all family, friends, and at work and not ever being male" confused me and left the impression that in order to be female, you can't at all be male and in order to be male, you can't at all be female which would leave no room for someone like me to exist.

No. I was describing both GGs, and the TSs who transition. I think you can safely say that no transitioned MtF TS has a male body, at least to the degree that medical science can change the male body through HRT, BAs and other surgeries, and to the best ability she can afford to do these things ... (she certainly does not present as a male, ever). Also, not all transitioned TSs go on to immediately have SRS (although many do eventually), but those bits do become non-functioning with HRT.

Doesn't mean we arn't part female.

"Part female", or "gender fluid", or "non-binary" I can understand. I get that. But a non-transitioner who likes being male and who at the same time identifies as female is misleading. If the word used is just "female" without prefacing it with "part", this does not imply fluidity or part-time. Both the words "female" and "male" by themselves that describe the 97%-99% of the population, describe either ALL female or ALL male, and both these genders do form the basis for the gender-binary system. Gender-binary means "either/or", not both at the same time and not sometimes one gender and sometimes the other gender. Also, transitioned TSs no longer have gender issues, they are not "part-female", they are not gender fluid, they don't see themselves as "part-male", they don't like being male, they've done it! They have transitioned (or they are in the active process of transitioning).

The average woman may not be attracted to curves or bust or pretty beautiful sexy women like many of us on this forum are, but Im sure many lesbians are. Im sure many of them appreciate a nice bust, probably enjoy seeing it dressed in nice sexy packaging as well.

Two quick statements about this:

1. Lesbians are not statistically average. We can debate about what percentage of the female population is lesbian, whether it is 3.5% (according to most studies) or more or less. But such a small percentage does not define "average". The average woman is hetero.
2. Still have you hung out in the lesbian community lately? Would you say that most of the lesbians dress to emphasize their boobs, legs, butts? Or would you be able to see that many (if not most) do not emphasize their female bodies the same way that a young college girl might, who goes to the bar on Saturday night in the hopes of hooking up with someone. Think butch lesbian, although I do hate that term. I prefer to use the term "natural", without any of the enhancements pushed on women by mass marketing. lol. But that's an entirely different topic that deserves a thread of its own.

[Lorileah]

I'll never be a female I am, however very much a woman. At least in my mind and in my definition. Female would be XX genotype (or a genotype with XX...it's a genetic science thing).

Also I work very hard to never be jealous. It is a wasted emotion that doesn't do anything for you. I may envy, but that too is a waste because it won't make me better.

[Tina_gm]

Lorileah, I agree completely about jealousy. It is a very negative and often times destructive emotion. Envy though, can be used to better oneself. It too needs a lot of control of course, and there may be some things we envy that we simply will never be able to accomplish. Still, envy in of itself can be used at times in ways to better ourselves. For CDers, the envy of women, which most of us have doesn't accomplish a whole lot really. But it can be hard to not feel it at all. Envy at how others have been able to conduct themselves in public, how they deal with the trans issues, that can be worked on and made better.

[Iluvacder]

I have been reading this thread and seeing as how I like to make people smile.... I hope someone can smile ( or get a giggle) from me.
Being raised on a dairy farm in Wisconsin ( I am a gg) with all the chores and everyday life of a ( farmer's daughter) , I rarely got the chance to dress to the nines. When I did it seemed like sooooo much work. Getting up at 3am to milk plus everything else through the day then milk again in the evening ,every day well.... anyway with my SO I guess I get envious because I see how excited he gets and how much more relaxed he is when he dresses and he really has a much better eye for fashion than me ( I am a jeans and sweatshirt girl) he actually helps me pick my dress up clothes lol. I guess I wish I could feel the same excitement as him.
Sometimes I wish I could ( feel ) as womanly as he presents to me at times. Sorry if this got off the subject, just thought someone might get a chuckle .
Love to all

[ReineD]

I'll never be a female I am, however very much a woman.

When I'm involved in such discussions here, my thought processes do not follow "Hmmm ... I need to remember that this transitioned woman is not XX". I just don't analyze it this way because I know that medically it is impossible to change a person's chromosomes. I do consider transitioned women to be women in all senses of the word (except for chromosomes) and so sometimes I'll inadvertently use the word "female" instead of "woman" when referring to a MtF transitioner. I tend to interchange the two terms without really thinking about it. This is not done to hurt anyone, I mostly think about how transwomen live, and I just don't think of them as male.

[PaulaQ]

I am wondering if the envy / jealousy being discussed here is, in fact, gender dysphoria.

[Jazzy Jaz]

I agree Paula, it certainly is on my part. Thanks Reine for clarifying what you meant with that one sentence and the context you were using it in. I think most of this in general we agree on and have well thought out views on and perhaps sometimes we just misunderstand each others' examples and context. In regards to lesbians, my post was misunderstood as I definately would not imply that lesbians have a higher interest in dressing to emphasize their boobs, legs, and butts. What I DID imply is that lesbians are very likely to enjoy those traits on OTHER women, much like straight men do, and therefor if a TG person happens to enjoy those traits on women it doesn't rule out the possibility for them to still be "part woman". I never said lesbians are "average", certainly not percentage wise. I think Paula was indicating (like you were, and I agree) that lesbians live, act, and dress in the same average way that average heterosexual women do (generally speaking). But women in general are diverse and so a TG persons feelings, attractions, likes etc for the most part can't discredit their possibly being part woman just because it doesn't correlate with what "average women" feel.

About the term "female", Reine's explanation definately describes my use of the term. Im fully aware that I don't have a female reproductive system. I had never specifically looked up the definition "female" compared to "woman" so thanks Lorileah for prompting me to do so.

Thanks Phili for your point about "focus". I'm quite certain my GD/envy isn't going to disappear. I don't have any problem with bras and straps and I do struggle with the seam at the crotch of my pants, boxers, and only really enjoy panties if I make an opening for them. Oh and facial hair. I would much rather struggle with boobs. However, where I place my focus/energy will determine for the most part my quality of life and Im in the process of trying to implement that with healthy food vs bad food addictions to correct some health issues I have and your words will definately help me in this process.

[PaulaQ]

What I DID imply is that lesbians are very likely to enjoy those traits on OTHER women, much like straight men do, and therefor if a TG person happens to enjoy those traits on women...

Two fun facts:
1. There are lesbians who like femmes, but being femme isn't always easy in that world because everyone assumes you are a straight, or even worse, a bisexual woman. Anyway, lots of golf shirts, shorts, visors and waist packs, not so much with the dresses. It's a little less like this in Dallas, which is relatively conservative - you run into more femmes.

2. So seriously don't forget about bi women when talking about women who like other women. There are easily twice as many bi women as lesbians, turns out. So they are NOT insignificant. (A lot of lesbians really don't like bi women.)

Sorry, just thought I should clarify this stuff - there aren't that many queer women here.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Lily, I get envious watching mywife putting on her makeup especially eye liner.