the impossible dilemmas of visibility

[arbon]

The problems with being visible - it is not the fear of being attacked or blatantly harassed, being made fun of, but rather it is the more subtle stuff that gets me.
For example I've learned that within my circle of female friends I'm not actually being accepted as a woman but rather as a trans person, a guy wearing womens cloths and going by a female name. Their totally supportive of me, and love me still, but it is a far ways off from what all this has been about for me. Being a normal woman. Crap, even just a couple days ago a woman I know started telling me that her daughter (who I don't even know) saw me somewhere and was saying how great and content I looked - now if I were just a normal woman would I be being judged like this by someone I don't even know and having it come back to me? Of course not. This sort of thing happens all the time to me though, it feels like I can't even go to the store without being judged by how well I am pulling off trying to be a woman. Which is a horrible way to think about it, because I am a woman!

The way I feel about it, once you are known as trans whatever, you are no longer that woman that you are to those people. You've become something else to them.


So I don't want to be out and visible that way, as trans or transgender, or transsexual or any of that. Just let me have a normal woman's life. The impossible dream! And at this stage in my life, I try to never even use those terms at all or to identify myself or others.


But then on the flip side of that I want to be able to be supportive of others that share this crazy experience, I want to be helpful when I can be. I want to stand up to all the jerks out there and fight for rights and all that. In the community here I am often approached by people needing information or help. Especially with younger people it is coming up more and more. That happens because of being visible, which is the good thing about it. It can help someone else and give them hope for themselves.

Well today I am much more visible in the community after my name was in the paper attached to an article about lgbt stuff - I saw that article and read my name in the very first sentence and it sent my anxiety over all this through the freaking roof.

So I am leaving town for a couple days to hide.

I have not got any of this shit figured out! Will I ever? I don't know.

And I don't know why I am writing all this, but there you have it.

[Jenniferathome]

... a woman I know started telling me that her daughter (who I don't even know) saw me somewhere and was saying how great and content I looked - now if I were just a normal woman would I be being judged like this by someone I don't even know and having it come back to me? ....

Arbon, I m a half full glass kind of guy. I can't tell you how many times I have heard similar comments about a woman who was recently divorced with friends saying EXACTLY, "how great and content" this divorced woman looked. I have heard the same after a death of a loved one. I understand what you are feeling, but to me, it is a positive. Someone is reflecting on how well you have moved in this next stage of your life. You re LIVING, not hiding in shame. That's what they are saying.

Now, as for being stuck with the "trans" label, yes, that might stick for quite a while. People can't see what is in your head, they see you. People who know you, know you used to be a man, physically/genetically. Time will heal the "trans" label. Here's a light hearted thought: have you every worked in a place where a new guy is hired and he is still the "new" guy two years later? I had an office for about 5 years where everyone called it, "Bob's old office." Bob was gone 5 years when I got the office!

Again, time will cure your ills. How much time? I don't know. But usually, time brings new people into your life and they will only know you as woman. Then change moves faster.

Best wishes

[ariannavt]

...within my circle of female friends I'm not actually being accepted as a woman but rather as a trans person...

I sometimes struggle with this too. The idea that I will never actually be able to experience life, or perhaps more importantly, relationships, as a regular woman. I know celebrating differences is something to remember... but most days all I really want is a chance at being a common part of the collective.

[Badtranny]

Time my friend.

I could have written that same post a couple of years ago. In fact I think I did.

...but the tide does ebb, and the sands do shift. It doesn't get better every day or even every week, but every couple of years, I can look back and say it's definitely getting better.

remember, we measure this shit in years.

[arbon]

And it Has been measured in years. Like six.

My only hope is when I can get out of this town. Maybe out of the state.

[Kate T]

Arbon

We've all written / felt this or at least something similar. I doubt there is a single day goes by that most of us don't think "I just want to get on with my life, I don't want to be 'the transwoman'". I know there are very few that I don't think this at some point.

But we are who we are. I was born assigned male. I have three children and a wife. My mother, who has dementia, refuses to call me by my name and constantly calls me by my old name. EVERY day I am reminded that I USED to be male. That takes nothing away from the fact that I am now female. I am Kate.

I am visible in my local and professional community. Ridiculously visible. Not because I'm trans but because we have 3 children at various schools, I am on P&F committee's, professional association committees, I do referral veterinary surgery for other local veterinarians, we play tennis every week at the local tennis club, we are well known at our local church and often help out with morning tea, we help with a local sailing club that takes people with disabilities sailing. Many of these things we have been doing for almost 20yrs in this community. So I get where you are coming from. Does everyone call me Kate out of political correctness? Do they go around saying "Oh yes that's Kate, he used to be ...... (I really don't like using my old name) before" behind my back? You know what, I actually don't think they do. I think Jennifer is right. Women often will say "so and so looks great since she left that a...hole / got that new job / left that other crappy job". I think when people call me Kate they genuinely just think of me as Kate. Kate their tennis partner / opposition, Kate their veterinarian, Kate who makes really nice morning tea at church, Kate who is the budget girl on the P&F.

Arbon, you said yourself that your friends love you still. Do you really think they love some image you project or do they love you? Because if they love you then it won't matter to them what gender you are, were or will be. You are just you. Perhaps you need to consider whether you are judging them and what they are thinking, I know this is something that I constantly have to remind myself to NOT do. If we want others just to accept us for who we are then we need to be able to do the same for them and not be constantly judging whether we think they are thinking the "right way" or not.

All that being said I understand you getting out of town. One of the nicest things about being away from people who know me and my history is just being essentially treated like any other woman they don't know. It is pretty superficial though and can never replace the friendships and relationships that I have in my local community.

[pamela7]

People will be people. For me the answer lies in being independent of their views or perceptions or judgements. Having just come out in a national newspaper there is nowhere to hide and I don't need to. We have one neighbouring house where they clearly laugh at me, while the rest seem fine actually. It's their problem, and from their perspective I can understand why they see it as funny. The point is "so what?" Imagine all the crap thrown at a top politician or celebrity. It's not only trans people who are judged; everyone is. Jennifer's post makes this point; people hold onto images of the past world.

So the only remedy is to process out why you allow your emotional state to depend on what others think or say, and at the end of that you can be unaffected.

[Angela Campbell]

I know the feeling. I moved to a new town, got a new job, new friends and left the trans stuff behind. I never thought much about being this way. I only came on here for that subject, I avoided it on Facebook.

But lately when our governments began a war against us I felt like I had to help fight back. So I'm coming out of the closet again.

[STACY B]

And it Has been measured in years. Like six.

My only hope is when I can get out of this town. Maybe out of the state.

Funny you say Move,, Get out of the State, Me and the SO were just talking about that yesterday. And I am Totally the opposite on that, Yep all the way around Really I am, No matter how Dumb these folks are,, Screw that moving crap from a person who has invested there whole life and Built a Business here for 11 years and to let those Goof Balls Run me outta town NO WAY,,

Maybe the other way around, How bout I start picking Folks I don't agree with and send them packing? How you like that? Hell I know everyone here, This is my Hood,, Not the Biggest place but still large enough to be OK,, And not a small 2 red light town ether ,Just big enough,, I was just telling my wife that Hell I am a B celebrity here and these knuckle Heads are just going to have to go with the flow and get used to it.

If I were to go anywhere else I would just be a face in the crowd and I like being known though out the Land,, Kind of a Local Icon with my small company and what would all my regular customers do ,, Hell they Freak when my Truck goes down for repairs now,, They see me,, They know me by now, Hell I am SURE they talk Crap about me after I leave,, The Big Man talk to make there selves feel better about being Alpha I am sure of it, But everyone in the whole world has SOMETHING WRONG with them, And we are Trans, So I tell suck it up Partner, I'll be gone one day and yull have to find another Poor Sucker to pick on,,lol,,

I know, I know,, I get Sick of it from time to time and just want to throw my hands in the air and say Piss on it, But we have come to far , When you feel Bad and start giving up just go back to the CD threads and see how Bad those Poor sucker have it. All of them just starting out,, Hell I would NEVER want to go back to the begining of this whole deal,, I don't think I could Climb that Hill again,, I think I will just keep moving in this direction,, Stay Strong WOMAN,,,,

[Nashmau]

I would like to offer 2 things, which maybe (?) can give you some comfort.

a) you said you have a group of female friends, anyone of them had a nasty breakup lately? you know something that breaks you and makes you eat a bunch of chocolate stuff, which gives you shitty skin and you look like crap for at least 1 month? and then that friend gets up again, changes her hairstyle and looks like a springflower? what do you say? "she looks good, fresh, content, new start" etc etc etc. think about it, i am certain you said that to someone too at some point in your live. It is a compliment! its something positive. We tell each other that, especially when we care for the other. We want them to be confident, we want them to be looking like a springflower! I really hope you wont take these negative, because they are compliments.

b) female friends who know that you are TS ( if they are quality friends!!) think a lot about what they will be saying. mhh Let me give you an example: a classmate of mine and very dear friends transinioned very early in her life, so we basicly grew up together. i took me years, YEARS to actually tell her, that my menstruation is the worst thing in my life and i will never get pregnant because i dont wanna have the pain or a c-section etc ( i was 25 to that time lol, so my opinion might have changed by now....well maybe not so much). which is totally idiotic of me. BUT i simply didnt wanted to hurt her with these topics. But in me trying to protect her from these hurt, i made her feel insecure. and sometimes, if you feel left out, it can help to give your female QUALITY friends, a subtle pointer that you can deal with that, that you maybe dont need to be protected. Instead that you would like to be secure in your position as there girlfriend.

I hope this will leave you with some positive feelings. I dont want you to hide, i want you to be a springflower. So get up and be a springflower!

[flatlander_48]

A:

I don't believe this is something that you can change directly. I think everyone has a different time table to get to acceptance, if they ever do. You can't control that. I am reminded of this:

“Lord, grant me the strength to accept the things I cannot change,
the courage to change the things I can,
and the wisdom to know the difference.”

I assume that you are a likable person of good cheer. So to me what's left is that the women you mention have not reconciled the fact that your path to womanhood was different. The other assumption that I would make is that you were parented as male. If true, there may be a lot of information that you were forced to absorb in different ways, assuming it was available to you.

If all of this is the case, you can't fix it. But, what you can do is live as you think you should and be the person that you need to be. It is inappropriate to compromise yourself over this. If people get it, fine. If they don't, they don't. If it turns out that some will have to fall by the wayside, so be it. However, explain the situation to them first. Make sure that they know how you feel. Many times people are unaware of their own baggage. Make them aware. The idea is not to leave bloody corpses; rather it is to inform. What we often forget is that when we have to convey negative information, it has to be done in a manner where people are still able to hear what we say. If your anger comes through, it will be "Shields Up" and they will hear very little of what you have to say because they will fixate on, and respond to, your anger.

DeeAnn

[ReineD]

Arbon, you said yourself that your friends love you still. Do you really think they love some image you project or do they love you? Because if they love you then it won't matter to them what gender you are, were or will be. You are just you.

This.

I won't presume to understand how you feel, I can only guess and try to empathize. But, I can tell you how I see the people in my life and it is the way that Kate describes it. While it is true that when I first meet someone, I do make note of their gender, age group, marital status, and any number of other immediately observable general statistics because that is all I have to go on. But, after I get to know them all of that disappears and they get classified into a box that is just for them. It's difficult to describe other than saying that when I think of them, I think of the way they smile, the laugh they have, their outlook on life, what makes them tick, their quirks and foibles, how approachable or private they are, the memories we share. Gender, age group, nationality, whether married or not or have children or not, student or not, all kinda merge into one big shining cloud that is simply them. The transwomen that I know do not get classified into "transwomen" boxes, the women are not in "women" boxes, nor the men in "men" boxes. Instead, everyone that I've known for awhile gets classified into either a "close friends" box, "acquaintances" box, "work-related" box, "friendly" or "not friendly" box, "people I dislike" box, "very special SO" box (there's only one person in that box), no matter their gender. The one distinction I do keep related to general statistics is children vs. adults simply because I relate to all children differently than I relate to all adults.

I'll try to give an example. I take it you are Caucasian (I think I remember a picture at one point). So if among your close friends there are for example Asians or African Americans, do you primarily think of them as being racially different than you are, or do you think of who they are at their essence, in short all the aspects of their personalities, when you bring them to mind.

[Tina_gm]

I would imagine this subject has got to be among the biggest difficulties of those who are or have transitioned. Heck, one of the reasons why I do not go out in public is because I do not want to be viewed as a guy in a dress. My hats off to all that do. I certainly have nothing against it. BUT, when I do see someone out dressed, I also view the reactions of others. While not toxic with hate or anger for most, still, there is that general view most get, the glances, the whatever indescribable reaction people get when they see someone dressed. And for those who are or have transitioned, there will likely be for many of you, a same basic reaction that they see as a CDer, and they may view you as a CDer. They won't necessarily know, just assume. Or they will assume a CDer is someone who is or has transitioned. Not that is SHOULD actually matter. But, it does.

[Jenniferathome]

... if among your close friends there are for example Asians or African Americans, do you primarily think of them as being racially different than you are, or do you think of who they are at their essence, in short all the aspects of their personalities, when you bring them to mind.

Great analogy.

...And for those who are or have transitioned, there will likely be for many of you, a same basic reaction that they see as a CDer, and they may view you as a CDer. They won't necessarily know, just assume...

Mutt, I disagree and here's why using my own example. I had dinner with Jennifer-GWN rom this forum, several weeks ago. Me, the cross dresser and she, the tans-woman. We even discussed this topic. As a cross dresser, I am essentially a poser or "tourist" to be kinder. I am not LIVING as woman I am only hoping the villagers don't tar and feather me. I LIVE as a man and that is my foundation. Jennifer LIVES as a woman and that is her foundation. As we spoke to each other and to the wait staff, I could sense the "naturalness" she had at being a woman, that I did not have. The "vibe" if you will, comes through and I honestly believe the normals can see and feel it.

[Zooey]

I'm fortunate enough to have a few female friends who I believe really do deeply accept me as a woman, but I know the feeling arbon is talking about very well.

The SF Bay Area is, by and large, an incredibly TOLERANT place. Most people are deeply RESPECTFUL of my identity. There is a palpable difference though, between tolerance/respect and actual acceptance. It's subtle, and rarely stated directly. It's encoded in small hesitations, subconscious exclusions, and a thousand other little moments. Many of these people are my friends, and they DO care about me. Most of the people who I would say have not deeply accepted me as a woman would argue that they HAVE done so, but I don't think they realize what that really means. They don't do these things intentionally or consciously; they're not aware of it. I would have trouble actually placing any blame on them for it, but it does hurt.

A lot.

[Tina_gm]

Jennerfer, I know the area in which you live SanJose I believe?? I once lived there myself many years ago. I actually like the city, among my favorites in CA. But overall, the bay area is a very accepting and tolerant place. I think in most of the general surrounding area, many people there have a true I don't care attitude. They may see more of the gender variance than what many places do, and may be better able to pick up the subtle difference between someone who is living as a woman as opposed to a CDer expressing themselves for the occasion. I would say in many other places, people will not see those subtleties nearly as much.

[Suzanne F]

Most of the time I can accept that I am seen as a trans woman. In fact when I am in a good place I happily wear the badge. However, lately it has been overwhelming. Yesterday a complete stranger stopped me in the nail salon to tell me I should be on the bus. I didn't get it at first. She meant Caitlyn's bus. I looked at her kind of in shock and she assured me she meant it as a compliment. I thanked her and retreated to my chair. Then 2 hours later I was out in my newly colored actual hair and a clerk called me sir loudly in front of the entire CVS. Given the earlier comment I was about over it. That lead to a tiff with my wife later when I hit home when she didn't react that supportively. It wasn't a great day!

However, I try to remember that I am so grateful not to hide anymore. I am free to live an authentic life no matter how other people react to me or my appearance. Yes Jennifer I agree. People I interact with do usually sense that my essence is female. I love that when it comes through. No one guaranteed me this would be easy.

Suzanne

[Badtranny]

No one guaranteed me this would be easy.

In fact some of us looked you in the eye and said "it's gonna be hard, be strong".

Hang in there Suze, the first couple of years are a grind, but it will eventually get better because you will eventually get stronger. It won't be long now and you'll be a meanie just like us. :-)

[PretzelGirl]

Misty, everyone certainly did and it definitely should be listened too. I do find one thing interesting. I can certainly see that where Arbon lives being a potentially tough area. It has the same predominate religion as I have in my area, but they wear it more judgmentally perhaps. There is certainly something different as I feel I have had it quite good and a 3 hour drive away, it changes. And I am still relatively a trans baby. Sometimes you can't predict the response as I wouldn't have thought about Zooey running into issues where she is given the repetition, but there it is.

BTW Jennifer. We still haven't met and my daughter now lives in your city, along with a past board member from here. So I get up there now and then. Maybe we can fix that?

[Jenniferathome]

Yep, I think we have to. Maybe we can get Arbon down to the big city too!

[Zooey]

Sometimes you can't predict the response as I wouldn't have thought about Zooey running into issues where she is given the repetition, but there it is.

Just to be clear, I've got it great. I haven't run into much that I would actually describe as "issues". Again, most folks in the bay area are extremely tolerant and respectful, even "accepting" of me. Nobody in my life (that I'm aware of), and I suspect relatively few people day to day, would ever think of me as a man. The vast majority of them, AFAICT, see and think of me as a woman. Accepting me as a woman with no caveats is a different story though.

Nobody ever says anything bad to me. It's more like, there are things they don't discuss with me that I know they discuss with other women in their social circle (at a similar level of familiarity), or they will hesitate ever so slightly before doing so in ways that I don't see them do with other women. Or, when it comes to physical contact, there's that same subtle hesitation or slightly lower level of inclusion. They're not doing anything wrong; they're not even aware that they're doing it. They would swear up and down that they think of me as a woman, and as far as their conscious mind is concerned, that's almost certainly true. In some cases, I've seen it get better over time. In other cases, it hasn't seemed to, but who knows what more time will do.

One of my best friends has only really known me since transition, and she unquestionably accepts me as a woman. It's entertaining when I periodically have to remind her that I have some "uncommon issues" that can affect certain things.

[Marcelle]

Hi Arbon,

So sorry to hear about your dilemma but I want to applaud your stance in helping those around who may be looking for information and being an ambassador of sorts at the cost of being more visible . . . it is not an easy row to hoe especially if you value your privacy and with to just live your life like every other woman.

To be honest, I never thought about this until you wrote your post. I have a close group of friends at work, women and men and always assumed they saw me as a trans woman because they saw me transition in place. Recently in the Canadian military we have be reexamining our sexual harassment policy and various working/focus groups have been formed (harassment of LGBT folks falls under the definition of sexual harassment in the CAF). I received an invite to sit on a women's focus group and to be honest was quite ecstatic by the prospect. However, after I had introduced myself to the group during first day introductions, the lead added . . . "Marcelle is our trans member". Now nobody is ever going to mistake me for a cis-woman but I certainly did not need that caveat attached to my introduction as nobody else got that additional attachment . . . Cheryl is our brunette member.

So yesterday, after reading your post I asked some friends (men and women) how they saw me as a man or a woman or something else. Some took the politically correct high road . . . "Well I see you as Marcelle" but most indicated "I see you as a transgender person". I did not read anything bad in that because I know it is hard for people who are so attached to a clearly defined binary (you are a woman if you meet the following criteria) and this kid does not meet all the checks mark for them to say "you are a woman". However, I will always consider myself a woman and that puts me in a comfortable spot.

Cheers

Marcelle

[PretzelGirl]

This is a difficult thing. If you are not advocating then the proper thing is for them to see us as women (or men for FTM). Since I am out advocating, it is hard for anyone to not say "transgender woman" since I am saying it. Some seem to advocate more because I am open as I have many cis-friends making trans supportive posts on Facebook but never say one thing about me being trans at work or social settings. I still think I am fortunate in the way I am treated and am pulled into woman only discussions and activities. I also have used my dead name in educational efforts with the understanding that I might be planting a seed and could have it used back at me. It hasn't happened yet except for the duration of those educational discussions. But it is a risk. One of my ongoing wishes is that I could bottle up acceptance and pass it on. It is so unfair.

One of my friends said in general that she doesn't like saying Transgender Woman but if the distinction needs to be made, it should be Woman who is Transgender which keeps us from being held separate and just being women. I like that and have used it.

Jennifer, I still have an old email address for you, so sending a test to see if I still have a valid one.

[jandebs]

I just don’t get that being referred to as a transwoman is a problem. Or that it’s something we should be ‘stuck’ with. Sure, I’m presenting as female and I’d be crushed to be treated as anything else, but when it comes up I’m completely happy to describe myself as trans. Arbon I’m not sure what age you are, but for me it’s entirely unrealistic at this point in my life (61) to deny my past. Particularly when people are so accepting of me.

I’ve just illustrated a kid’s book my daughter wrote with her mate, and the book was launched a few weeks ago in Brooklyn NY. I made no secret about being trans but I didn't need to be embarrassed about it, or refer to it in any way either. There’s a video here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAMq7UvgK9w

Everything’s about acceptance and being open and honest about who we are (the story is actually about this), and by not denying the reality, everybody gets it.

[flatlander_48]

So to me what's left is that the women you mention have not reconciled the fact that your path to womanhood was different.

Following up on something that I mentioned earlier, I have a question for the group...

Regardless of the completeness of ones transition (M>F as we're discussing), there are shortfalls of knowledge compared to genetic women. For example, there is no analog for childbirth or menopause as it is simply outside of the realm of experience of trans women. So, the question is can this difference come into play as part of the thought process for genetic women?

DeeAnn