Question About Where I am At

[Nadine Spirit]

Now I know that nobody but myself can definitively answer this question for me, but I am curious as to other's thoughts on the matter.

Does my growing irritation about the posts/replies on the MtF CD section of this board indicate that maybe I don't identify with others who consider themselves CDs? And does that indicate that I am not a part of that group?

I mean, I already know that I exist far differently than most CDs. I am out to most everyone in my life, they all know that I consider myself to exist somewhere in the gender spectrum. I have told them that occasionally I fully cross dress, and that I am 100% gender non-conforming. My family, friends, and work all know that I am transgender.

I suppose what I am asking is, am I just deluding myself and not seeing the obvious, that actually I am really TS?

[Dana44]

Nadine, h'mm I've always seen you as a happy CD. Perhaps you are in the tween group that Robin started. I am in that group but still fully gender fluid and don't see me going the TS route. I would get some therapy to help you define where you are.

[AllieSF]

I can't specifically answer that last question. For that and if you are at the point of really needing third party input, then find an experienced professional.

As for not relating to what is posted in the CD section, that may just be a matter of taste, reading burn out, current crop of topics, etc. A lot of that just changes over time. I have been here a long time and really do enjoy posting in interesting threads where I may find that my experience or opinions may provide a valid response to an OP's open questions. Other times, I may not be in the mood for some of the repeat topics that come up all the time. And to be honest, I have no problem at all if similar topics come up frequently. Sometimes the new slant on the topic is more interesting than the ;previous ones. Also, I was a newbie once and old topics for the regulars here before that moment were all new to me and very valid as topics. I honestly, hardly ever look in what section a thread originates since I always look for the new posts (too bad they can't seem to restore that wonderful "New Posts" button to working order!) and participate when the topic sounds interesting. You are further down the road than I am with your total openness which is to be highly commended. The little I know about you gives me confidence that you will successfully navigate this part of your life and move on to the next challenges. Good luck and do keep us "posted"!

[ReineD]

Another thing to consider is the length of time you've been doing this and the level of acceptance in your personal life (your spouse's attitudes, whether you live in a more progressive urban environment vs. a more conservative rural area, etc). So if you have been able to construe your life such that you can go out frequently and it has become no big deal, you won't have the same concerns or "wish lists" and accompanying frustrations that many other members do have. And so your interests will differ from theirs. In short, you're way past keeping it in the closet and being interested in the type of activities that often closeted people are interested in.

This is just one aspect of it, regardless of what is your gender identity. But, if you should ever get to the point where you want to be 24/7 full-time female (not androgynous), change your legal markers, and bring your body in line with a female gender identity, then you would be different than the bulk of people who post in the CD section. IMO.

[Jenniferathome]

... Does my growing irritation about the posts/replies on the MtF CD section of this board indicate that maybe I don't identify with others who consider themselves CDs? And does that indicate that I am not a part of that group?...

Nadine, I think you know that I place myself firmly on "dude" ground and only identify as male. I'm just a cross dressing tourist as it were. But I could have written the EXACT same thing that I quoted above.

Now, based on my interactions with you and your many writings here and on your blog, and not even using myself as a baseline, I think you are WAY more than a cross dresser. Nothing wrong with that but I can see where you'd not identify with someone like me.

[Megan G]

You are correct when you say only you can answer the question you are posing but to elaborate on what you are asking...

When I joined here over ten years ago the one thing I did learn very quickly was that I could not relate to crossdressers. I was not angry or irritated by what they were posting but just could not understand why the subjects they were talking about were so important to them. Infact when I came out to my wife I showed her the forum to see if she wanted to join to get support from the GG's but cautioned her to read what the CD's were posting with a grain of salt because thier views/interests did not reflect mine.

It was not for several more years before I looked at the TS side, mostly due to fear but when I did I completely related and could actually "feel" what the TS's were saying.

So I guess the question is "why are you irritated by the posts lately"? Is it because they are concentrated on the superficial aspect (clothing, makeup ect) and lack substance or is it because they just do not reflect who you are as an individual.

Megan.

[Lauri K]

Now I know that nobody but myself can definitively answer this question for me, but I am curious as to other's thoughts on the matter.

Does my growing irritation about the posts/replies on the MtF CD section of this board indicate that maybe I don't identify with others who consider themselves CDs?

Nadine, you likely have matured along the way through real life experiences, and like you I struggle to identify as CD as well when I read some of the CD threads posted because I cannot identify with them either.

Real life experiences separate the two labeled groups often times.............I could write a lot about that topic.

I am not calling anyone out here, we all started somewhere and I get that...............but I am guessing that after a few decades of wearing panties you no longer can find any humor in someone asking if they think anyone will notice if they are wearing panties, pantyhose, bras etc. to work under their normal male attire. (but everyone starts somewhere, and I have to give them respect for that even though I am bored to tears to read the thread)

Or alternatively if you already have both your ears pierced you may not have much interest in a ear ring thread.

We are a support group here which is awesome, but we all move along the continuum of time at different paces and I also can find it hard to understand others beginnings and what they are pursuing as so called "I am just a CD" and straight, hetro etc. etc..

I am not trying to put words in your post here, but it sounds to me like you are at a point where it is way more than being a CD and you have been there and done a lot of things that others just getting started with. You even agree that you are TS/TG.

I love to offer advise and help everyone but sometimes people can only know if they do it on their own terms............

This posts reminds me of a question that was posed one time " Am I Trans Enough " whaaat..........there is no way to measure that, is there.

My advice is don't get hung up on all the boxes and labels, just be yourself and be proud of who you are.

But alternatively I hope this will ring a tone with some of the irritation you may have as I think there are possibly others here who share your sentiment.

[ReineD]

I have a question, since a few people have mentioned it. What's "way more than a CD"? Does it mean that someone is transsexual, identifies as a woman, and wants to transition?

What do people think that "CD" means? Is it mostly someone who gets kicks out of wearing panties?

Not wanting to start a label war, just trying to understand what "way more than a CD" actually means.

[Suzanne F]

Nadine
First of all I loved our time together with our spouses and hope to see you again. I believe that the fact you openly identify yourself to friends and family as transgender separates you from most crossdressers. I found you to be very female but that was the only way you presented. I think you have had a lot of time to compare how comfortable you are in both genders. I am sure you will make wise decisions concerning any changes. Take care!
Suzanne

[Rogina B]

You are "comfortable in your own skin" and you are not alone in that here. We row our own boat on our own course in this life. There are lots of courses you can choose to take.What works for one may not be the same as another's.

[Jenniferathome]

Reine, to me a cross dresser is that. A man who identifies as a man but cross dresses. Anyone who identifies as a thing more than just a guy(MtF CD, of course) is "more than" just a cross dresser. As that scale tips more and more towards identifying as a woman or somewhere close, that is "way more". Gender fluid is way more than just a CD. To me.

[ReineD]

So again, to clarify (and to hopefully to help make this clearer for others who might think that "way more than CD" = "transsexual"), we are talking of a sliding scale of gender fluidity as opposed to transsexualism, right?

[PretzelGirl]

One of the things about the main forum is that it is teeming with people and there is a large variety of identities there. I can see it easily being tiring to read constantly about feelings or issues that don't pertain to yourself.

[Jenniferathome]

So again, to clarify (and to hopefully to help make this clearer for others who might think that 1) "way more than CD" = "transsexual"), 2)we are talking of a sliding scale of gender fluidity as opposed to transsexualism, right?

On point 1, no, I think anyone who is transexual left CDing a long time ago. Again, to me, I would put it it at "don't identify exclusively as a man regardless of attire = more than a CD". Now, to get to "way more" brings us to point 2). Yes, it's a sliding scale, to me

[Georgette_USA]

When I was in US NAVY in 1972, I identified as a CD to the psychiatrists and security people as I had not explored just where I belonged yet. Knowledge was very sparse back then.
After military I got with CDs at parties. Met my partner there and some others. I think we realized that just being a CD was not our thing.
Don't think it was a way more than a CD, just not the same.
Took a lot of research but we started to explore the whole TS thing. And met some that were doing that and some that already had done it.

Not sure why some people on these sites take the attitude that TG/TS look/talk down on or dismiss CDs. I will admit I have seen some of the TG/TS that may do that. We are all on different points on the spectrum at times.

[Marcelle]

Hi Nadine,

I think you have just come to the realization that a "rinse and repeat" of several subjects cannot hold your interest as they used to. Since I have been here, you have been consistent in your stance on being gender fluid and I believe that is where you are comfortable at present. Perhaps some of the subjects here resonate more with you because you can identify with some (e.g., being out to the world).

Cheers

Marcelle

[pamela7]

There are only so many "i just got busted", "i nearly got caught" and similar threads that the out-of-closet CD or fluid or trans is going to read/reply before losing interest. They're for encouraging CD. The fluid/tween grouping could indeed deserve its own little group area, as it would be a nice bridge for some folks heading in the direction of opening up to transition, and also a nice space to discuss things fluid.

As to your question, once you start asking these questions the obvious thing to ask is why are you asking them? Because unconsciously at least, there is something more within that wants something. This suggests at least fluid and at most late-onset TS, right?

[Krisi]

We don't all fit neatly into little boxes, humans are complex. That's why you see the same people on different sections of this forum. Are you a crossdresser? Technically, if you are a male and you sometimes wear women's clothes, you are a crossdresser. That's the definition.

You don't have to read the MtF CD section if you don't want to or feel it doesn't apply to you. If you identify more with the transsexual section, that's fine, that's where you should be.

Only you can decide if you are a TS. There's no "test".

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Now I know that nobody but myself can definitively answer this question for me, but I am curious as to other's thoughts on the matter.

Does my growing irritation about the posts/replies on the MtF CD section of this board indicate that maybe I don't identify with others who consider themselves CDs? And does that indicate that I am not a part of that group?

I mean, I already know that I exist far differently than most CDs. I am out to most everyone in my life, they all know that I consider myself to exist somewhere in the gender spectrum. I have told them that occasionally I fully cross dress, and that I am 100% gender non-conforming. My family, friends, and work all know that I am transgender.

I suppose what I am asking is, am I just deluding myself and not seeing the obvious, that actually I am really TS?

it seems to me you are looking for validation (like all of us)

the idea of "more than a cd" as discussed in this thread doesn't resonate with me...the word "more" kind of feels wrong...cd's don't become more anything...they dont morph into something else...and they are certainly not "less" than anything
i like simply "i'm not a cd, i'm not male"...

Clearly you are not a cd male.. what you are is the fun part and is totally personal...

and trust me there is no exclusive TS club to aspire to ...there is no magic to it...if you have a good life, and you are centered and functional in life, if you can give and receive love, if you feel alive, you have a good base to go forward, not think so much and live your best life... if that starts to change, and you can't feel alive, and you can't function , then that is a much better tell than getting irritated at conversations that don't resonate with you...its when that irritation crosses the line and creates distress in your life that you might start thinking harder about it..

also so often i see this creeping judgement of cd's... don't fall into that trap... ..

[Nadine Spirit]

Before I attempt some sort of response to many of your thoughts let me just babble a bit more about myself:

I don't feel as though I have changed much over the years, as in I don't think one aspect of cross dressing has led to the next as if I am sliding down some slippery slope into transition. I really feel like it is an opening up of my own mind to view who I have actually always been. Nothing has changed really, except for my understanding. Writing, reading, talking, listening, all of it helps me to understand the world and myself better. So I greatly appreciate everyone's opinions, they help me to form my own.

Really, most of my pondering is a result of what I consider to be my gender non-conforming behavior. My cross dressing (when I fully dress as a woman) is very limited, maybe 2 to 3 times per month. My gender non-conforming behaviors is where I am full time. I do that everywhere, in front of everyone, and make no attempts to hide it or explain it away. It is the gender non-conforming things that have been with me, been a part of me, since as long as I can remember. They did not arise consciously, they have just always been. I was only made aware of them once people began to make fun of me while growing up. It is those aspects that I tried to hide, that I tried to deny and run away from. It is those behaviors that I am trying to be more open to accepting as who I am.

But, if you should ever get to the point where you want to be 24/7 full-time female (not androgynous), change your legal markers, and bring your body in line with a female gender identity, then you would be different than the bulk of people who post in the CD section. IMO.

And maybe it is just as simple as that Reine. Maybe wanting to do what you stated is what defines someone as TS and that if you are not interested in doing that, then maybe you are not TS. But couldn't someone be TS and not actually want to transition? Because I kind of view what you describe more along the lines of transition. Can you be TS and not transition? I would say yes.

.... I think you are WAY more than a cross dresser.

Since I have joined this forum I have become more and more aware that I am not your average typical cross dresser. Presenting the mix of genders as I do, and telling those around me about considering myself to be transgender, those two things separate me from most cross dressers.

So I guess the question is "why are you irritated by the posts lately"? Is it because they are concentrated on the superficial aspect (clothing, makeup ect) and lack substance or is it because they just do not reflect who you are as an individual.

I think it is a bit of both. Yeah many of the posts are just so lame! But I have begun to wonder if it is more because I just don't identify with most who adopt the CD label.

Real life experiences separate the two labeled groups often times..............

Maybe this is what it is. Maybe it is this idea that a large number of cross dressers live in a fantasy world, whereas TSs don't, they live in the real world. This really resonates with me.

I believe that the fact you openly identify yourself to friends and family as transgender separates you from most crossdressers.

I would agree!

What works for one may not be the same as another's.

Yeah, that is true. So that translates to.... there is more than one way to be a CD? And there is more than one way to be TS? So is there some sort of space where the two overlap?

Since I have been here, you have been consistent in your stance on being gender fluid and I believe that is where you are comfortable at present.

Thanks Marcelle. The only correction I would make is that I don't really identify with the idea of gender fluid, as my identity does not seem to fluctuate from day to day.

As to your question, once you start asking these questions the obvious thing to ask is why are you asking them? Because unconsciously at least, there is something more within that wants something. This suggests at least fluid and at most late-onset TS, right?

Well, yeah I get what you are saying..... but honestly, I question everything; much to the annoyance of my patient wife. Seriously, I really think I have questioned just about every aspect of my life. So for me to not question this rea would be just odd. I don't put much weight into the idea that since I am questioning something, that it therefore means something. All it means is that I am pondering life and questioning everything about it.

Are you a crossdresser? Technically, if you are a male and you sometimes wear women's clothes, you are a crossdresser. That's the definition.

Hmmm.... thanks Krisi. And possibly it is this idea of how to define a word that I am considering here. Believe it or not, I am quite familiar with the definition of a CD. What I am not familiar with is how to define somebody that does what I do. When one can be defined as a cross dresser for wearing women's panties, and that is all they do, and when compared to me, there is a vast divide. So....?

...its when that irritation crosses the line and creates distress in your life that you might start thinking harder about it..

also so often i see this creeping judgement of cd's... don't fall into that trap... ..

This is fantastic advice Kaitlyn, and I greatly appreciate it!

You know with the whole judgement thing..... that is kind of where I started with this forum. Many thought I was troll looking to flame. With me judging folks I kind of look at it as, well I will judge for myself if it is acceptable to me and my life, if not I will state why I think it is wrong. If I think it is right, I will try and uphold it



Okay...... thanks everyone! I appreciate all of the input. I would like to point out though, I placed this thread purposefully in the TS section as I was/am kind of hoping for more responses from those who consider themselves as TS. I have experience with the CD identifiers, but I rarely have much contact/input from those who consider themselves TS.

[Tina_gm]

Well, I won't be able to add to those who identify as TS..... but I think I can in some ways relate to feeling not a lot like a lot of the CDers though. I really really don't get a lot of the excited sensations thing. The thrills of shopping, the obsessions of 6 inch heels..... I do not ever change how I feel about myself, I do not become anyone other than myself when I am dressed, from which ever rack the clothes I am wearing come from. Dressing for me is only a way of connecting the outside to what is inside. It is a comfortable relaxing feeling, nothing more. It is pretty much why you never see me address the panty threads, or the omg, I am feeling like such a girl when I am wearing heels threads. I like wearing heels, but I don't feel more feminine... I feel taller.

[Nadine Spirit]

I feel taller - hahahahaha!! So true!

[Kaitlyn Michele]

you kind of remind me of my best friend...dresses fully and presents as "her" ...in supportive marraige...very gender queer when not dressed...

I call her by her female name where she goes...i only knew her as a cd friend for a couple years but as we got closer i saw the other side of it..

if i had to guess, i'd say she would love to transition...but her life doesnt "allow it", and her distress is basically nonexistent...
i think she also has some fears and phobias around medical stuff....it all adds up to a very gender fluid life for her...

[Georgette_USA]

Can you be TS and not transition? I would say yes.
And there is more than one way to be TS?
I don't really identify with the idea of gender fluid, as my identity does not seem to fluctuate from day to day.
I was/am kind of hoping for more responses from those who consider themselves as TS.

You asked what those that consider themselves as TS think. From someone who fits in that category and is actually BEEN/BEING a Post-Op TS for 38 years.

A lot of my understanding are from 40 year old definitions. I am just now, last 1.5 years learning all this new terms and ideas. I'm sure some of these were around then, but not seen or heard from much.

I have been confused about people who consider themselves as Gender Queer/Gender Fluid/Gender Non-Confiming really means. You can Google them but like anything, you will get definitions all over the place.
On-line it says
“Gender nonconforming” refers to people who do not follow other people’s ideas or stereotypes about how they should look or act based on the female or male sex they were assigned at birth. Which can mean many things to different people.

That is one of the reasons for the TG term. Not all people who embrace the term TG, imply it is ONLY TS. All these sub-categories fit under it. Generally people that identify as full TS do transition as one or the other gender. I have friends that identify as one or more of those and non-binary do not think of themselves as TS but do embrace the TG term. So by what I am familiar with NO you would not fit the TS category. There are many ways to transition with or without HRT - non or some or all of the full SRS surgeries. And I am sure there are many who identify as TS and may not choose to transition at all, and many who denied it for many years.

Since you do sometimes CD fully I assume, but also consider yourself as Gender Non_confirming for the most part, you maybe more than just a CD, but are 100% TG.

[Nadine Spirit]

So to me.... gender non-conforming -
- I have my nails painted 24/7/365
- both my ears are pierced
- I wear fem jewelry - including a diamond and sapphire wedding ring
- I shave my body
- I wear mostly female clothing
- I carry a female wallet
- I occasionally carry a purse
- I have a female style iPad and phone case
- frequently I will attend public swimming locations with a bikini bottom

But all the while I am in no way attempting to present as anything other than a male.

Whereas with fully cross dressing - I am attempting to present as best as I can as a woman.

Hmmm...... I think that about covers it....