Girl power message feeding desires to CD / TG?

[Swottie]

Feeling philosophical on my day off work...

As someone growing up without a father, I had practically no male role model to look up to, I have wondered if this has led to my desire to CD.

Over the last 30 years, society has arguably given more effort on the development of girls more than on boys. Boys are expected to cope, they are expected to "man up" when things go wrong.

Whilst the media's use of skinny (beach ready) women are frowned upon, not much is said about the use of super fit men with 6 packs. Women are standing up against unrealistic female images, saying men apparently like women with curves; but apparently women also like a well toned male body with 6 pack. The message is that it's ok to have a less than perfect female body. So boys, if you can't achieve the perfect male body, how about trying for an acceptable female body instead.

The work place is still much biased towards male, therefore boys don't need encouragement, or role models plastered everywhere, there are apparently enough opportunities to not warrant the need for any publicity or encouragement for boys.

Girls on the other hand, are encouraged to aim high, told they can be whatever they want to be, that it's ok to be different and break the mould, break the glass ceiling. Girls can wear boyfriend shirts, boyfriend jeans, boy-shorts, boxers, trouser suits etc that are all designed for them and they look great in them. Feminism has grown up, women used to want to be as strong as men, or do the same job as men; now they just want to be whatever they want, and become whoever they want.

Yes I know society still doesn't always accept women who break the mould either, and nasty things are said and done to them, so I'm not saying they don't need the help or encouragement. But boys do as well.

I wonder, if a boy is already CD/TG inclined, if all these girl-power type messages are unconsciously feeding their desires?

[Dana44]

I am sure the girl power messages are somewhat helping us to become better fem. But the men do not really look at those as women do.

[reb.femme]

I wouldn't discount any reasons for my love of CD things, but I just liked the feel of my mum's satin slips and knickers . That was long before I got into reading the papers and/or listening to the news. Also, this was way back before girls had any sort of equal chance at anything, as it was Britain of the early 1970s.

I just think that many UK males are able to release this side of themselves in an easier going society, whereas being CD back then, would have been a recipe for a good kicking. More likely the girl power messages have aided the GGs to strive and/or achieve more but I don't see it affecting the guys in the same way. Totally unscientific blather by me but I await the empirical evidence to the contrary .

Becky

[Jenniferathome]

... So boys, if you can't achieve the perfect male body, how about trying for an acceptable female body instead.

Really, you believe this? No boy thinks this. That's like saying if you can't walk then fly. It makes no sense. By the way, here on earth, it is unequivocal that the pressure on women to be young, fit, and beautiful is relentless and far exceeds anything aimed at men. For every 6 pack in a magazine, there's a dozen kegs.

[Swottie]

Why do people feel the need to shoot you down just for wondering? So eager to find flaws, take things out of context so they can score points against you?

What research can you cite to prove "No boy thinks this"? So you know out of ALL the boys in the world, not a single one of them have ever thought that? So not a single self conscious CD/TG inclined boy in the world have ever thought that?

I am not discounting the pressure on girls, it's good that girls are getting encouragement and help to counter that pressure. That was not the point. The point is about female targeted messages influencing male.

The point is, that between all this, society seems be ignoring the pressure and expectations on boys/men. Men are constantly told to "man up", they are "sissies" if they cried, and gay if they wore anything not seen as typical male attire. Just because the media isn't constantly shoving images of perfect men down our throat, doesn't mean men doesn't feel any kind of pressure to be perfect.

The point is the analogy about flying just doesn't work, humans cannot fly without a plane, but boys can become passable CD/TG without surgery.

The point is these are the kinds of replies that scare people into making mistakes, voicing their "wrong" thoughts. That they will be told "no one is like you, your thoughts are warped, you are a freak".

[SIZE=1]- - - Updated - - -[/SIZE]

Whilst the media doesn't force feed boys with perfect images of male models, boys are expected to be manly, to grow a pair, to man up, to stop being pussies, stop whining about anything, you're not supposed to show fear, or tears. Because, oh because girls get it far worse.

It's not a competition about who gets it worst. It's about boys needing help and acceptance too. Whilst TV and magazines doesn't print perfect male bodies nearly as often as female, but Hollywood is forever featuring the perfect male roles, but I guess that doesn't matter, as men should just man up. I wonder how many young people male and female kill themselves because they cannot achieve what's expected of their roles? How many are bullied? How many get depressed?

[Jenniferathome]

This was a rant on how men have it worse than women! It's nonsense.

Imagine the rant was about how whites have it worse than blacks. Chris Rock had something to say about that:

• "None of you would change places with me. And l'm rich! That's how good it is to be white.
  
• There's a white, one-legged busboy in here right now that won't change places with my black ass.
  
• He's going, ''No, man, l don't wanna switch. l wanna ride this white thing out"
  
  and therein lies the nonsense of the premise.

[Teresa]

Swottie,
I don't think we can blame any outside influences, if it's in our heads from birth nothing is going to influence or change that, , if some of us haven't experienced the same influences we won't be fully understood, my start in CDing was traumatic and very few people comment or relate to it, we are all different so I just accept that now.
Try not to get too heated if someone else doesn't see your point of view, so many different circumstances affect our personal views.

The other point is the grass is never that much greener for anyone else, women have pressures which we don't understand, the same as very few women understand CDers.

[ReineD]

I wonder, if a boy is already CD/TG inclined, if all these girl-power type messages are unconsciously feeding their desires?

I think that any girl-type message can be a trigger for a CDer, it doesn't have to be girl-power (although I'm not quite sure what you mean by that). Triggers can be the new spring or fall fashion catalogs coming out. Or the weather turning from early Spring to Summer-ish and seeing some girls start to wear skirts and dresses again. Or a girl at the office showing up in a new outfit that particularly appeals to a CDer. Or walking by a lingerie store display window for some CDers. And so on.

Back to girl-power, if you mean the movement away from the traditional gender roles particularly espoused in the 1950s where most women stayed home and all the ads portrayed them in pretty dresses, yes this has changed. Women began to insist on being recognized as equally capable intellectually, in the work force, and politically. And average families do need two salaries to make ends meet now. So fashion has indeed reflected these new social and economic standards. Women's clothing styles are more practical now (pants vs. skirts) and the focus is less on showing off a woman's figure because women generally want to be recognized as capable beings more than just being a pretty thing that men enjoy looking at. This is particularly true at work, and the bulk of women work outside the home now.

But, the boyfriend shirts, jeans, jackets, boy-shorts, etc you mention is just a one of many different buzz-words attempting to market styles to women. If you go into any large department store, you will only find a few items described like this (mostly geared to teenagers who want to have boyfriends ). Have a look next time you're in a large store: the bulk of items on the racks upon racks of clothing will simply be a huge array of pants, tops, jeans, skirts, dresses not labeled boyfriend-anything.

[Tina_gm]

It sounds good.... I am a CDer or I am transgender because of my youth, or upbringing. I had no male role. It's someone elses fault. But that is simply not how it works. The only thing it may do is to help someone younger to be able to identify it sooner. My upbringing is exactly the opposite. I had a wonderful father. A weak mother, not always very emotionally strong. My father was and is my role model. Sadly he departed in 2004.

As for society expectations of boys having to be tough and strong. Most boys like being tough and strong. That is what sets us apart from cis gender males. it is hard for us. Not so hard for them.

[reb.femme]

I think that any girl-type message can be a trigger for a CDer, it doesn't have to be girl-power (although I'm not quite sure what you mean by that.

Oh Reine! Do you mean to infer that you missed out on the core message from the Spice Girls? "Girl power", "friends forever"...well almost anyway . Seems they forgot the core message when they broke up...thankfully. Girl power has been a UK phrase for girls being able to achieve or do whatever they want in today's world.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5jeIg6sxj8
Should you be able to stomach this.

Becky

[Liz57]

Swottie, I like your thinking. I could possibly be the one boy in the world that feels that way.

[mykell]

philosophical:
relating or devoted to the study of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence.

"philosophical discussions about free will"

Feeling philosophical on my day off work...

As someone growing up without a father, I had practically no male role model to look up to, I have wondered if this has led to my desire to CD.
.................

Whilst the media's use of skinny (beach ready) women are frowned upon, not much is said about the use of super fit men with 6 packs. Women are standing up against unrealistic female images, saying men apparently like women with curves; but apparently women also like a well toned male body with 6 pack. The message is that it's ok to have a less than perfect female body. So boys, if you can't achieve the perfect male body, how about trying for an acceptable female body instead.
......................................

I wonder, if a boy is already CD/TG inclined, if all these girl-power type messages are unconsciously feeding their desires?

i doubt your lack of a father role model could be attributed to your desire to dress and water here, but i found your premise of the CD/TG inclined to be interesting,
while most here seem to find theyre interest at a young age we do have the occasional late starters CD/TG/TS however they identify, so if they ARE already CD/TG/TS inclined their may be a trigger that put a more urgent desire in motion.
but i may disagree with your part of this premise, in my daily real life i now know more female to male trans men, most are young but i could imagine if i was on a social platform where they water one might see that they have late starters also, so how would that fit into your scenario,

Why do people feel the need to shoot you down just for wondering? So eager to find flaws, take things out of context so they can score points against you?

this has come to bother me with how some reply on thread subjects this way, pulling 1 sentence or part of one to disagree with that one part of the context of the whole original post,
it happens more than not, its like the Chinese whisper:

Chinese whispers played around the world in which one person whispers a message to another, which is passed through a line of people until the last player announces the message to the entire group. Errors typically accumulate in the retellings, so the statement announced by the last player differs significantly, and often amusingly, from the one uttered by the first. Reasons for changes include anxiousness or impatience, erroneous corrections, the difficult-to-understand mechanism of whispering, and that some players may deliberately alter what is being said to guarantee a changed message by the end of the line.

once the thread is commented on a prevalent amount replies we dont even read the OP and only comment on a reply that had nothing at all to do with OP, then the thread is high-jacked.
edit:
kinda like this one, now its about fashion.

[ReineD]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5jeIg6sxj8
Should you be able to stomach this.

Thanks Becky, I admit, the Spice Girls have been outside of my radar. But the video was interesting. At one point, one of them said girl-power means they don’t need men because they can survive on their own.

What they say is true, but it doesn’t mean that women no longer want men. They just don’t need to be married in order to survive any more - a woman can have a career and support herself now and this means she does not have to jump into marriage like it was generations ago. She can wait until she meets someone she feels will improve on the life that she is building for herself.

This article from NPR is interesting to read, or there's a link to listen to it:

Single By Choice: Why Fewer American Women Are Married Than Ever Before

[LelaK]

Women's clothing styles are more practical now (pants vs. skirts) and the focus is less on showing off a woman's figure because women generally want to be recognized as capable beings more than just being a pretty thing that men enjoy looking at.

- What makes pants more practical than skirts?
- There aren't as many good figures to show off any more in either sex [thanks to misguided food and med trends].
- I don't want to be pretty for men, but for myself. Are western women being programmed not to want to be pretty? I can understand not wanting to be a target of exploiters and abusers, but I can't readily understand not wanting to be as pretty as possible to oneself and one's loved ones.

[Jenniferathome]

What makes pants more practical than skirts?

1) sitting surface makes no difference.
2) you can bend over at the waist with impunity
3) wind will never expose your undergarments
4) riding a bike requires no planning
5) pervs on lower flights of stairs can try to cop a peek.

.... fill in your own, there are many

But as far as "not wanting to be pretty..." I doubt you can find a straight man on earth that doesn't think a woman skinny jeans is hot.

[ReineD]

- What makes pants more practical than skirts?

• You can bend over without worrying about showing too much.
• You can get in and out of cars easier.
• Pants are much better than skirts for hiking, running, cycling, or any other sport.
• They're warmer in cold weather.
• For older women who can't get away with not wearing pantyhose (their legs show age with varicose veins, age spots, etc), you don't have to worry about constant pantyhose snags and runs.
• It's easier for moms to chase kids around or to play with them on the floor when the moms wear pants.
• You can kick back and relax more easily when you're sitting on a sofa, like putting your feet up on a coffee table.
• Wearing pants places you on a subtle psychological parity with men, which is useful during business hours because when you walk down the hall, you know that men are not distracted with your legs and they are instead thinking about what you just said in the meeting.

These are the reasons I can think of. But, a majority of women do choose pants over skirts nowadays for their day-to-day activities and if they were surveyed I'm sure there would be lots of other reasons.

On the plus side though, skirts are cooler in the summer. And women do still dress up when the occasion calls for it, so it's not like we wear pants 100% of the time. Maybe just only 80% of the time.

[Vickie_CDTV]

As someone who's job involves sitting and leaning over for long periods of time, I can sing the praises of how practical long skirts are. I have never had a problem doing anything in a long skirt.

[DanielleLee]

It's amazing how this thread is no longer even about the original post. Not that I'm surprised anymore.

To the OP, I'm sorry. You have a right to your opinion and/or "wondering"; and people have the right to debate with you. Debate however, is about respect and listening... not being rude, condescending and dismissing other's views as nonsense.

[KimberlyJean]

So my wife called me a sissy the other day and I replied "Women can't be strong and powerful." She said she is strong and hasn't hinted at my feminine side being weak or soft since. Girl power in my favor.

[LelaK]

Right On, KimberlyJean! Sissy comes from Sister and there's no reason for sisters to be equated with weakness (I guess the same applies to the disabled).

As for why pants are supposedly more practical than skirts, I don't see why having our underwear exposed should be a problem, if it's opaque underwear. And there's miniculottes that should satisfy other situations. And for leg veins, there are leggings to go under the skirt etc.

[Karine]

First of all, I think that we are all agree that we can not complain about our place in the society as men. Unfortunately, women still have to deal with strerotypes and other issues. It is true that boys are pressured to be strong, tough,etc.; in the other hand, girls are pressured to be pretty, take care of their appearance, etc. and this is a huge burden. Just look at most of the fashion commercials.
At work, women are still disadvantaged. In france, there was a study showing that, with equal qualification, women are paid less. Women will be expected to voice concerns in a softer way.
Really, I think that, from a society's standpoint, being a man is far much easier.

However, few years ago appears some king of new "feminism" (let's call it spice girls girls power) which the message was mostly that being a girl is cool and fun, to be proud of be a woman and endorse feminity. It was a less "thorough" feminism (from mypoint of view) and in a way it reinforce stereotypes. I have to admit that it appeals to me (why can I enjoy walking in these pretty heels too ?).
Maybe it increases my wish to crossdress but I do not think that it triggers my crossdressing. It was already inside me.

[Maria Blackwood]

I recall that stuff going back to the 70s, right in the middle of second wave feminism. I don't think it had any real effect on me even when it appeared on kids shows. It was just girls doing their thing. I liked girls, so, OK, cool.

The whole thing with boys needing to man up is older, but not as old as many think. Tears from men were once seen as proof of sincerity and integrity- that he actually gave a damn about something to become emotional. Ancient heroic literature from across the globe has many heros (like Odysseus) crying buckets, sometimes over existential things. There were some rules here and there about shedding tears publically versus privately, but the Crying Prohibition did not come about until the so called "Enlightenment "

Remember: Jesus wept. So did the badass warriors in Beowulf.

[CONSUELO]

[QUOTE=ReineD;3937177]I think that any girl-type message can be a trigger for a CDer, it doesn't have to be girl-power (although I'm not quite sure what you mean by that). Triggers can be the new spring or fall fashion catalogs coming out. Or the weather turning from early Spring to Summer-ish and seeing some girls start to wear skirts and dresses again. Or a girl at the office showing up in a new outfit that particularly appeals to a CDer. Or walking by a lingerie store display window for some CDers. And so on.

I think Reine is correct. If you are inclined toward cross dressing there are a host of triggers to arouse your interest. However I was raised in a household with a mother and three older sisters. My father was absent at work a lot and I remember being surrounded by feminine things and conversation. As well as the obvious opportunity to try on clothing, I also picked up the techniques of putting on makeup just by looking and was close to a host of other feminine things also.
Did this amplify my cross dressing desires? I really don't know for sure but I do think that whatever nature gave me was enhanced by the feminine nurturing atmosphere in which I was raised.

[sometimes_miss]

[QUOTE=Swottie;3936639 Women are standing up against unrealistic female images, saying men apparently like women with curves [/quote]
What they're really pushing, is that they want men to like them fat.

The work place is still much biased towards male, therefore boys don't need encouragement

Mostly because boys are self encouraging; boys want girls, and in order to get them, boys have to achieve. Girls, OTOH, are just taught that all they need to do is be pretty. Which is still true. If a woman is beautiful, and nice, and knows basic domestic skills, she will be able to 'catch' a decent man. In that, nothing's changed.

Girls on the other hand, are encouraged to aim high, told they can be whatever they want to be

While it starts like that, by middle school a huge percentage of girls are still focusing on 'social' success, rather than a career, and it's perhaps this that causes them to be at a disadvantage getting ahead in their chosen career. Men still put in more time at work, are more likely to negotiate for higher salaries and positions, and are willing to sacrifice their home life in order to gain position at work.

I wonder, if a boy is already CD/TG inclined, if all these girl-power type messages are unconsciously feeding their desires?

I don't think so. Crossdressers and mtf TG/TS are almost always focusing on the traditional female role model, beauty, fashion, socializing, not the career girl role.

[LelaK]

We "are almost always focusing on the traditional female role model, beauty, fashion, socializing, not the career girl role." Yes, SM, and let's keep it that way, or something like that.