transgender

[arbon]

Other terms like transsexual have become irrelevant and meaningless out there in the bigger world.

I mean when you look at all the national debate it is all about transgender people. Even from the DOE and DOJ recently. Transgender being talked about by the president and candidates. We all get thrown into transgender label.

How do you like it?

I was at a school board meeting last night on the issue, listening to people talk and debate this stuff. Really fun watching people with no personal experience on it trying to decide whats best on these issues. They don't have a clue what they are talking about. In the policy being debated transsexual does not even get defined - only transgender. Earlier in the year I tried getting transgender removed from the policy (likewise transsexual and all such labels) to have it address "gender identity". I feel a policy in regards to gender identity is much clearer and to the point. Transgender muddies the waters. At first I got what I wanted, but it was a very brief victory, and now the policy is back to being a transgender and gender non conforming policy. I went ahead and gave comments in support of it, now I am kind of wishing I hadn't and considering how I can head it off at the next meeting. It would really piss people off at this point though, so maybe I just need to concede and say yep we are all transgender.

[pamela7]

the question is whether it's helpful, so as it has brought awareness, i think it is. We can subdivide into CD and TS but the umbrella is TG, right?

[Megan G]

Just my opinion but I don't feel like lumping everyone that is gender non conforming under one "umbrella" term such as transgender to set policies is helping at all and only feeds into the confusion that people who don't understand are having.

I think your spot on with the term transgender only muddying the water for them. To people that don't understand it fully transgender means transexual and your going to transition. They don't realize that there are people in that group that never will and don't want to. There are people in that group that do not have a gender identity issue, the identify solidly with their birth gender and just CD for other reasons..

[arbon]

The definition of transgener being used by the DOE is : Transgender describes those individuals whose gender identity is different from the sex they were assigned at birth. A transgender male is someone who identifies as male but was assigned the sex of female at birth; a transgender female is someone who identifies as female but was assigned the sex of male at birth.

[Megan G]

So to them transgender = transexual.

[Zooey]

I don't like it, because as you mentioned, nobody knows what they're talking about. I also am not really interested in being recognized as part of the broader transgender umbrella. I AM part of it, but I'm legally a woman at the state and federal level - I just want that to be respected and interpreted consistently.

Ignoring the extremes at either side (activists), and focusing on the "regular people" for a moment...

There are a lot of people advocating for non-discrimination ordinances who think they're specifically talking about people like you and I (more or less binary medically/legally transitioned/transitioning people), and make arguments as such, but don't realize all the other people they're talking about including. They use transgender to mean transexual, and that's a trap.

There are a lot of people opposed to non-discrimination ordinances, many who support actively discriminatory ones, who are actually worried about everybody BUT us. They're generally completely willing to throw us out with the bathwater if necessary though.

Near as I can tell, the "movement" is more or less advocating for a free-for-all, because while people like to use words like "sincerely held gender identity" nobody is willing to define an even borderline useful standard for what that means. If you accept fluid gender identities, as opposed to fluid gender expression, it may actually be impossible to do so in what feels like a manageable way. And so, free-for-all. That leaves us with Target employees telling idiotic men making YouTube videos that, yes, technically if you tell me you identify as a woman right now then you are allowed to use the women's restroom.

As I said recently to a friend, I personally believe that if this debate was just about us, much (though certainly not all) of the opposition would have stopped caring a while ago.

I believe strongly that we should have fewer gendered spaces, because they're nowhere near as necessary or desirable as some people think. i'm also 100% fine with supporting extra-inclusive laws that go beyond what I personally think is necessary/best/etc. I benefitted from one here in California for a while - I'm not sad that they exist. I just don't think that we have to completely dismantle the idea of gender in order to provide safety for people. I think that e.g. crossdressers should feel free to use the women's restroom without legal punishment if they're more comfortable when dressed, but I don't particularly think they need the legal right to be in there.

[arbon]

So to them transgender = transexual.

Yes, I guess so. That is from the guidance letter sent to all school districts in US.

[Starling]

We're never going to get the accurate--and stable--nomenclature we'd love. For the sake of communication with people I know, I'm satisfied with born with male genitalia but identify as female and intend to live full-time as a woman as soon as I can swing it. They get that, and it doesn't make them anxious, like having to use the right word would. But beyond that, these larger questions of terminology will inevitably be settled by committees of "experts."

I agree with Zooey. We should do whatever we can to support gender-neutral public bathrooms, whether they are shared or individual--preferably individual, which already works fine at places like Starbuck's. There is no practical way to assuage the fear of ignorant alarmists, but the most important truth to get across is that being in any public space where people have their pants down has always made them more vulnerable to creeps and criminals, regardless of sex or gender presentation.

Lallie

[Eryn]

We're the only ones who are splitting hairs over this. I don't care if I'm called by an "umbrella" term as long as the direction of the conversation is positive.

[Badtranny]

I wasn't going to weigh in on this but I can't resist the opportunity to say I agree with Eryn. LOL

I frankly never use the word transsexual outside of this forum. It feels dated to me, like hermaphrodite. Remember when that's what girls like me were called? Tranny is kind of an upgrade as far as I'm concerned.

When I come out to people (which isn't very often unfortunately), I tell them I'm transgender or trans, and they get it. The last thing I want to do is try to teach them our terminology or introduce them to our 'community'. Nobody needs that drama.

[PretzelGirl]

I wasn't going to weigh in on this but I can't resist the opportunity to say I agree with Eryn. LOL

I think I am going to the ER for a heart check!

But I agree too. Ever since I have been here, I have read threads on terminology and who think what means what. Say enough for people to understand and move on. I know my terms are not someone else's, so I just clarify if needed.

[KymberlyOct]

I understand OUR concerns regarding the use of various labels, Transgender, Transsexual, Gender Fluid, Non Binary, CD/TV etc. To the vast majority of the public these are distinctions without a difference although we know differently. In my opinion as we move the needle forward as a community with the population at large the most important thing is respect. As more of our society understands we are just trying to be our true selves and are not a threat to anyone or their way of life and support our rights to live our lives as we choose then we are going in the right direction. It's not about the words, it's about the attitude of society. In my opinion we are about 30 years behind the gay rights movement. This is encouraging for the younger members of our community because they will get there. I wish I was one of them. :-)

[Kate T]

Wow, Eryn, Sue and Melissa all agreeing. And I'm going to agree with them too!!

My personal preference is transgender. I dislike the inference of transexual that it is all about sex.

But then I'm probably just a bit of an old prude.

[I Am Paula]

This forum uses the archaic word transsexual. We are used to it, and it suits our purpose.
No one else uses it anymore.
Once again, arguing who fits where under the umbrella is pointless. In the case of the media, school board meetings, or the department of justice- None of them know us, care, or think there is a distinction. It like arguing wether you saw a dromedary, or a camel.

[becky77]

"I'm just a sweet transvestite from Transsexual, Transylvania". Rocky Horror.

Yeah Transsexual is a horrible word and the 'Sexual' part gives the wrong impression.
I just say I'm a woman or trans woman, unless it's medical then I say Transsexual because they know what that means.

Transgender is fine but a little meaningless because it's now far too broad and encompassing a term to give any context.

Now I'm happily full-time the definitions have little use to me, but not so easy when you are coming out to people.

[Jeri Ann]

I agree with Kate, Sue, Eryn and Melissa. If the need ever arises, I just say TG or Trans.

Jeri

[Zooey]

I don't really care what words we use. We can all be quizzle-bleep-blorps for all I care.

What I don't like is the fact that the people currently talking about us are all using different definitions of the same word, and talking to each other like they're not. IMO, that's a problem, for a variety of reasons.

[Sue Too]

LABELS LABELS LABELS Who the heck cares? What purpose do they serve? I cant believe that intelligent people don't have more constructive things to debate. I'm a woman and happy to be one. I act respectful of others and in return I am treated with respect-----even in female bathrooms.

End of rant

Susan in Phoenix

[arbon]

What purpose do they serve? I cant believe that intelligent people don't have more constructive things to debate.

When is comes to legalities and policies they can matter a lot.

[Rianna Humble]

I'm happy to go along with you not wanting labels, but let's see what your post would look like if we star out all the labels you don't want to use

****** ****** ****** Who the heck cares? What purpose do **** serve? * cant believe that *********** ****** don't have more ************ ****** to debate. *** a ***** and ***** to be ***. * act ********** of ****** and in return * am treated with *******-----even in ****** *********.

End of ****

***** in *******

Yes, makes just as much sense without the labels. Or does it?

[Eryn]

I was sitting in the audience for a show yesterday evening with Persephone. Some acquaintances happened by and we said "hi" as they sat down.

They got into a conversation among themselves about the synagogue that one attends. She said "It's really progressive, they're even having a bar mitzvah for a transgender man!"

At that point something dawned on me. She wouldn't have made that statement in easy earshot of Persephone and me if we were perceived as transgender! I, despite my faults, was perceived as a woman.

Ultimately, that is likely where we all want to be. The only label we want is "woman" or "man."

[Starling]

People of African origin in the US have been called many things over four hundred-plus years, but only in the last fifty years have they had a voice in choosing what to be called. Even now, there are factions which would prefer other terms than those most in use; or the use of no term at all, save human. That's why I believe the fracas over transgender vs transgendered, for instance, aroused a disproportionate degree of passion. They both mean essentially the same thing in English.

I believe that in hospitals here they identify us as Transgender Female or Transgender Male. That lets the medical staff know they may be encountering something unexpected, and therefore enable them to care for us properly. It also implies a Gender Binary.

Lallie

[becky77]

I went to some person the other day and asked if he could increase my stuff, he wasn't sure because he didn't know why I needed stuff, well I said it's because I'm a something or other. He looked even more confused and sent me to see the thingy person.
She was quite helpful but couldn't give me stuff because she didn't know what stuff is and why it's needed.
I said obviously stuff is to help with my something because I'm a lalala.

Funnily enough I came out empty handed.

Yeah who needs labels!

Being serious if you are going through the Gender clinic (NHS UK), then these terms are crucial. None of my Psych or surgery evaluations mention the word Transgender, it's a diagnosis of F64.0 Male to Female Transsexualism.

When it comes to medical/mental diagnosis Transgender means nothing it's just a polite term for media use.
It's a nicer word to maybe use than TS but it's not a word I typically use because it doesn't achieve anything.

My ex mentioned me to someone that didn't know recently, she always just says 'Bob now lives as a woman '.
My Mum now says either 'My son is now my daughter' or 'Bob is now Rebecca'.
I never told her what to say she worked that out herself after saying Transgender just got a barrage of confused questions, she said how she tells it now people understand instantly.

I and we did use Transgender initially but quickly discovered it's a pointless descriptor.

[Eryn]

I will point out that the homosexual community doesn't use that term to describe themselves. They say "Gay and Lesbian."

I know that some disagree with this, but I wish that gender designation on official documentation would go the way of racial designations. My driver's license doesn't state my race and the world hasn't ended.

[Starling]

Interesting, Eryn, and novel.

Lallie