Passing versus being a CD

[Tabitha_Sinn]

I hear a lot about "blending in" and "passing", and I guess that's fine for the individuals in our community who want to *appear* as GGs, but what about the fact that we are a group all our own?

For example, who ever sees a GG wearing six inch heels, unless they are in porn? But I *love* wearing six inch heels. Am I giving crossdressers a bad name? Or am I entitled to be a CROSSDRESSER, in a group all (my) our own?

It sounds like so many wanna pass as a GG, but I really don't mind being in a separate group.

But see, we are all our own individuals. some people want to pass as GGs, some people, like myself just want to be who we are.

I gave up long ago trying to pass for a GG. I mean, I *can* but I'm not interested anymore. I wanna do what *I* enjoy.

We should all be as accepting of each others differences as we are of others differences. Not every crossdresser is the same.

I was "raised" by a drag queen. And anytime I was not wearing high heels, in particularly HIGH heels, I was "cheating". Although I am not a drag queen, that is something that has always stuck with me. Not something a GG would do, but I'm not a GG. I'm a CD.

I'm not knocking those who want to pass as GG's, just saying for those of us that might fit in a different category :-)

[Rachelakld]

of course - be a bit boring if we were all the same.

For me "passing" seperates my CDing from those who hang around street corners late at night while trying to get clients, as that is what we were all categorized as, back in the 80's and probably even today in some areas.
I'm trying to create a more respectable image in the public mind.

While I've not yet seen a male at my shops with heels, what do you do in your heels? where do you go? what do you wear with them?

By the way, my daughters who are not in to porn, have 6 inch heels for their school balls (unfortunately they are only worn at friends parties after the balls finish, because working with babies and wearing heels is a no-no).

[Tabitha_Sinn]

Wow Rachel! Your daughters wear six inch heels? I must admit I am surprised! But that's very cool :-)

As for your questions...I don't go out out much anymore, and I don't mind. Sometimes I will wear heels to clean the house, just because I like to. What do I wear them with? Sometimes nothing to be honest!

I understand what you mean about "trying to create a more respectable image", but (mind you I was "raised" by a drag queen!) doesn't it count for what we enjoy? Isn't it *their* problem if they don't like it?

[Kate Simmons]

I'm just myself whether en femme or en homme. If others see me as a woman, that's their perception I guess.

[Teresa]

Tabitha,
I recall seeing my daughter in law in very high heels, I asked her if she needed a step ladder to get into them.

I had to see my GP recently and asked her about the arthritis in my big toes, she looked at her notes , smiled and turned to me saying it shouldn't be a problem as long as you're wearing sensible shoes, I replied no nothing over a 4" heel !

[Martha G]

I am a male who enjoys being a male. But I do enjoy dressing as a woman.

When I am dressed as a woman, namely Martha,I become a woman mentally. I enjoy at that time being a woman.

Thus I want to pass as a woman. I do make an attractive and passable woman and have developed some very feminine gestures when dressed.

So I really was to pass as a woman when dressed. I also thoroughly enjoy being a woman as well.

[Fiona123]

I said in a different post I am a middle aged man with a hairy middle aged body (yuck). No gonna pass any time soon. I love being en femme in private. I love the fantasy if being a woman.

[Ressie]

It's all crossdressing. Blending vs not-blending would be a better title. The consideration is, how much attention do you want to draw to yourself? Just being who you are is fine, but it could lead to getting the wrong kind of attention. High heels are one thing but adding fishnet stockings and a leather miniskirt isn't wise unless you're out clubbing etc.

[Tracii G]

What you do at home is one thing but out in public try to tone it down a few notches is always a good idea.
If you want to look like a working girl in public you have every right to do so but be ready for the consequences.
If you want to dress and be you well thats fine I do it every day.

[Jenniferathome]

Stripper heels, fishnets, and a miniskirt at the mall are a perfect stereotype of what a cross dresser is to most normals, I would think.

Do you have to be a stereotype to be your own person? Appropriate attire for the venue, time, day, event, etc is simply "appropriate." You going clubbing? Cut loose. Going to the grocery store? Be normal. Normal has a very broad range and can be one's own person, I should think.

And as for the "passing as a GG" comment, I have to write again that that is a fantasy for all but a very select, genetic lottery winners. The normals typically say noting because they don't care. I don't pass and I am not out to make a statement or be a stereotype.

[Stephanie47]

I am in agreement with Jennifer

I think whatever one decides to wear at home is fine. I'm an in-home cross-dresser whose domain is the backyard and home with some forays in the evening into the world. For me wearing women's clothing is a 'private affair.' At home I will always 'dress up' as in being presentable. It's always a dress, hosiery, heels, all the proper undergarments and a wig. Ask me why I do what I do, and, I cannot really give anyone an answer. That's the answer I gave my wife, and, it's the truth. That's totally different than 'how I feel' when I am wearing women's clothing.....at peace, less stress.

If a person just wishes to wear six inch heels or any other attire that's their business. Some of this forum just wear a woman's panty; some hosiery; etc. Maybe some would be characterized as having a 'fetish.'

Currently, any male wearing female clothing is under scrutiny or outright attack....."the bathroom wars." It is appalling how some are being treated and viewed. I'm a casual in-home cross-dresser. My heart goes out to transwomen.

I've seen pictures of some very very passable women on this site, and, some not so passable. I'm sure I've encountered some very passable women at the mall, but, then I would not know it. I've encountered some not so passable cross-dressers. I personally think it is unfortunate for the greater cross-dressing and transwomen community, when I see what "I" consider to be inappropriate attire at a particular venue. If we are attempting to gain acceptance, not for me, but for transpeople, I think it is imperative to act as a woman and dress appropriately.

[Magnetar GG]

This is what I've come to understand from many conversations with my husband and reading the posts and comments on this forum. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
Trans = people who completely identify with the gender opposite their sex, to the point that playing the part of the assigned gender becomes unbearable.
CD = people who fall in between. They enjoy being their assigned gender AND identify to some degree as the opposite. I would say androgynous but that has another connotation (people who identify as neither and choose to appear as neither, leaving everyone guessing M or F?). CD is FeMale. It is both, but not necessarily at the same time.
So when it comes to dressing, they want to look the part of whichever they identify at that moment. But that doesn't mean they have any intention of giving up on the other. The degree to which one identifies with either gender completely varies from person to person. Hence why someone wouldn't want to look like a crossdresser, or a dude in a dress in this case. If someone wants to identify with and portray his femme side at that given moment, he is going to want to look the part too.
For some it's just the comfort of knowing they have something feminine on (i.e. underdressing)
For some it's wanting to just look the part.
Some try to take on what they imagine would be a female persona from their known personal context, possibly emulating traditional gender roles, or certain behavioral traits from women they loved or nurtured them at some point. And with that, some might want to use a female name to feel more feminine, and give this personality a character, like an actor in a movie (not to be read as you are acting, you're just being yourselves).
Part of this might be attributed to the way our minds work. We love to try to organize information in our heads into neat little categories (hence society's obsession with labelling), so when something does not easily fit into one of those pre-ordained neat little categories, the mind comes with all different ways of doing so, even if it means creating a split personality of sorts. Now I'm Bill. Now I'm Jane.
The whole part on what other people think and confusing others is also part of the whole neat little categories thing. We aren't used to it. We weren't exposed to it. We were raised thinking boy and girl. Boy likes girl, girl likes boy. Then boy maybe likes boy, girl maybe likes girl. Then they might like both. After that came well, boy is not really a boy, and boygirl might like girl or boy, and girl isn't really a girl, and girlboy might like girl or boy. There's boy or girl is neither and is just it. And CD is boy or girl is BOTH and might like girl or boy or both. It's all so damn confusing. I watched something where I think there are over 600 of these different categories now? Learning kanji might be easier at this point than trying to make sense of it all.
And really, it shouldn't be up to the individual who is not quite cisgendered to put a nametag on him/herself and say "I am this, now you may categorize me." When I have discomfort with it, and my husband wants to know, I tell him it's really just my own issues that I need to sort and make sense of. I'm having to break out from decades of conditioning and try to understand what until now was taboo and there really isn't a lot of information. It's hard to have information on a topic when there are hundreds if not thousands of variations.
I think the concern of whether or not someone is going to transition is because in some cases, CDers might not realize that they were trans to begin with. They might have been, and then finally being an adult and being able to express oneself, and the dgaf attitude that you get when you get older does help a lot with that. It's wanting to know if your husband falls in that category of someone who hasn't quite figured him/herself out.
The wife betty books don't help with that, because I believe at some point betty wants to transition.
I think that's it. If I think of more I'll add on.

[Nikki.]

the magic decoder ring of commonly accepted terminology, at least for this forum is posted at http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...-Abbreviations. TG is an umbrella term. Not all peeps that identify as TG want to or will transition, but generally all peeps that want to or do are TG. Basically the opposite of Cisgender. Most CD's fall under the TG umbrella, but some say they don't. I think the nomenclature matters if you're in this world for whatever reason, but if not, it's gibberish. kinda like a farmer being in earshot of two sw engineers talking shop- "wtf are those guys yammering about...."

and yeah, for family of some in exploration the idea they might discover they want or need transition could be scary and looming. from what I've read most won't. I'm confident I won't.

[Zooey]

Learning kanji might be easier at this point than trying to make sense of it all.

LOL, having tried to do both... Yes, I think the kanji is easier. New kanji aren't invented 5 times daily.

The wife betty books don't help with that, because I believe at some point betty wants to transition.

...and in fact, Betty did transition some years ago. That may make it worse, but yeah.

[StarrOfDelite]

The wife betty books don't help with that, because I believe at some point betty wants to transition.
I think that's it. If I think of more I'll add on.

Have you read Alice in Genderland by Alice (Dr. Richard) Novic? Novic is a medical doctor who didn't realize she was Trans until adulthood. Alice is bisexual, and, at the time the book was written, she was married to a Cis woman who had a laissez faire/DADT attitude towards towards the extra-marital sex. It's an informative book for trans people who have been blindsided by gender dysphoria in the middle of life, and since I'm one of those I found it helpful in the voyage to self-understanding.

I Googled to see if Novic is seeking GRS, but found no information. Perhaps Zooey or one of the others who is more tuned into transsexual news might know about that.

[Magnetar GG]

Have you read Alice in Genderland by Alice (Dr. Richard) Novic? Novic is a medical doctor who didn't realize she was Trans until adulthood. Alice is bisexual, and, at the time the book was written, she was married to a Cis woman who had a laissez faire/DADT attitude towards towards the extra-marital sex. It's an informative book for trans people who have been blindsided by gender dysphoria in the middle of life, and since I'm one of those I found it helpful in the voyage to self-understanding.

I Googled to see if Novic is seeking GRS, but found no information. Perhaps Zooey or one of the others who is more tuned into transsexual news might know about that.

I have not, though I also wouldn't say that helps assuage a wife's fears that her hetero, cisgendered, knight-in-shining armor (who now suddenly likes wearing lace under that armor) might at some point decide he is no longer a he. Would you know of any books about crossdressing where it ends on a more reassuring note from a wife's point of view, and separates crossdressing from trans rather than as a stepping stone?

[ClosetED]

Magnetar GG - thank you for seeking an understanding when many hide. I think most of what you wrote is the same as my understanding, but trans is just a prefix. Transsexual is more accurate for what you defined. Transgender (TG) is a larger bucket. I think historical data estimate that 11% of the population has been homosexual over the centuries, so expect that same ratio in the larger TG bucket. Most CDers are heterosexual but some will be bi and some only want to be with a male. I know someone posted a nice graph of pink fog - how once freed from restrictions, a CDer will likely go overboard in activity, then settle down to their personal level of need. You, as the wife, likely have some control of the activity level and can moderate the spike. Most of the married people here are firm in what gender gets them sexually interested. Not to say that a hetero CDer would not mind the non-sexual attention of a man, but that is different than sexual attraction. I know of no book or show where a hetero crossdresser is kindly portrayed. Transsexuals are more vocal and the media pays them more attention, yet CDers are probably 5 times as common.
Labels are bad, but the brain needs them, so know their limits. Actions say a lot more.
Some CDers want to present as feminine, but society still limits men from presenting as they wish, so they may feel transition is the only solution that society allows them. You may be able to give your husband the level of feminine visibility desired, and reduce a desire to seek transition as a solution.
Again thank you for coming here to seek answers. When I asked my wife to come to the site to learn, she asked for a divorce (which did not happen). Now we are DADT / IDWTSI (I don't want to see it).
Hugs, Ellen

[Tina_gm]

And getting back to the topic..... If someone who CDs and does not care about passing, likes to wear the party girl/adult entertainment clothes, well that IS their choice. Nothing we can do about that. I am not going to condemn that, for the sake of doing so if that is what they do indeed like. I am only going to say that when dressed in this manner, any who do should not expect much respect from the general public. it is not going to advance the cause of acceptance. It is a more than subtle nod to the stereotype which we face. To continue to dress in that manner, despite the consequences which follow it, then so be it.

[SeanErin]

Guess I am too simple, racer backs and baseball jersey....

[AllisonS]

Regarding: If you are crossdressing in a non-conforming way and happy with your male identity why don't you use your male name?

Most names express gender. Calling yourself Mike would be like a poor fashion choice. And, for me anyway, in that mode, I'm not thinking about my male identity, happily or unhappily. I don't use my real name at restaurants either. I tell them my name is rich so I can hear them say, "Rich party of two, your table is ready".

[Taylor186]

But see, we are all our own individuals. some people want to pass as GGs, some people, like myself just want to be who we are.

Having been around a while, I would say that everyone here just wants to be "who they are." For some some that includes the desire to pass and for some it does not.

[becky77]

Not something a GG would do, but I'm not a GG. I'm a CD.

I'm not knocking those who want to pass as GG's, just saying for those of us that might fit in a different category :-)

I totally get that and see nothing wrong with what you are doing, my only confusion is if you are happily a male CD who is comfortable with your own sense of gender expression why then use a female name?

Why not fully own it? If you are crossdressing in a non-conforming way and happy with your male identity why don't you use your male name?
In that way you really would be making a statement that you are your own category.

There are an awful lot of CDers on here that claim they are not really trans and they are happy being male yet then confuse things by using female pronouns and a female name??

For example there are some here who rightfully fret that their wives may worry they want to become a woman and Transition, those people are often quite vocal about distancing themselves from being Trans and especially TS, which I get.
But don't you think your wives would feel less concerned if you just used a male name and pronouns?

It's just something I noticed that seems to contradict what is being said.


"I like being a man and don't have any feelings to be a woman also I'm strictly Hetero, but call me Cindy and refer to me as her" If you think about it's that's pretty confusing to an outsider they are going to assume you are Trans and want to be a woman. So by default unless you own being a male Crossdressers and answer to masculine descriptors, the right thing to do would be to dress respectfully and represent the Trans community fairly.

Or is the name also part of the expression?

[Jenniferathome]

... my only confusion is if you are happily a male CD who is comfortable with your own sense of gender expression why then use a female name?...

"I like being a man and don't have any feelings to be a woman also I'm strictly Hetero, but call me Cindy and refer to me as her" If you think about it's that's pretty confusing to an outsider they are going to assume you are Trans and want to be a woman. So by default unless you own being a male Crossdressers and answer to masculine descriptors, the right thing to do would be to dress respectfully and represent the Trans community fairly.

Or is the name also part of the expression?

Becky, for me it is a simple case of convention and convenience. When out in the world, if my wife or a friend called out, "Hey Joe, come look at this dress." It would be odd for me and the normals to react to that. So, it's really more about blending in than going for shock and awe. When alone with my wife, she calls me by my male name and pronoun.

I'll add that if my male name were androgynous: Chris, Terry, etc, I'd use that name. Jennifer or Jen has no special meaning to me other than a name I liked,

[heatherdress]

Tabitha - I understand your sentiments and agree 100%. Everyone should wear what they want to wear and not be judgmental about the attire of others. There are no crossdressing rules. If anyone wants to go out and attract attention, that is their business. No one owes anyone else an approved crossdresser appearance. There are risks attracting attention, but it is up to each person to decide how they want to look and they must evaluate their own safety and comfort.

[becky77]

Becky, for me it is a simple case of convention and convenience. When out in the world, if my wife or a friend called out, "Hey Joe, come look at this dress." It would be odd for me and the normals to react to that. So, it's really more about blending in than going for shock and awe. ,

That makes perfect sense, the majority of CDers being closeted in regards to most friends, family and work don't know are in effect trying to remain as inconspicuous as possible therefore using a female name when out seems logical.

But:
a) Why on here though? A CD forum where there is no need for subterfuge other than concealing your real name perhaps, but still why not use a male identifier that corresponds with how you identify?
b) Why someone who isn't trying to fly under the radar when out and who is openly dressing in a non-typical female appropriate dress, again why are they happy to present as a CD which in this case is man wearing women's clothes if that's the look they are happy with all power to them but if they then use a female name and pronouns then that confuses people into thinking a Tran's identity is in evidence. That confuses me also.

Eg.
Guy goes to the supermarket in 6" heels, leather mini skirt, stockings and boob tube. Hopefully most will agree this isn't the essence of being female rather than an enjoyment of feminine expression?
If conversation is made and he says "Yeah I'm John I like cross dressing". Those spoken with will leave hopefully with curiosity and a little admiration for him being different and open.
If in the conversation he instead says "Yes my names Brenda this is who I am".
More than likely those people instead might be offended that he 'thinks that's how a woman dresses' and by his words assume all he is Trans and they are all like that.

This seems unnecessary and damaging to those who are Trans in nature be it TS, somewhere inbetween or fluid who want to be taken more seriously.
Perception is everything.

Is this a fair question?