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Thread: Norway

  1. #1
    Junior Member Amalie's Avatar
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    Norway

    Hi all, first thread in this section from me, and I've been thinking a lot about transitioning.. and well made up my mind as well.
    Before my story I've written a comparison (from my point of view) between getting the necessary help in the US vs. Norway, as my current actions are not of which you'll agree on (-either way, but this may shed some light on it).



    So from what I've understand in the US when a trans* person feels the need to transition part or full time s/he will often consult their GP at first which will send them on to a therapist/psychiatrist who will evaluate them and if seen necessary set up for an endocrinologist where hrt evaluation and treatment will be received.

    The timespan for getting on hrt from you first contact your GP or a therapist as far as I know can be weeks to months (or more?) depending on waiting times, sessions needed and the patients certainty and will to move on.



    In Norway the first part of all this is quite the same, contact your GP, be forwarded to a therapist, be evaluated for further treatment.
    The next step however is where this country fail at helping most transgenders who are in need of help.

    After the evaluation from the therapist you will not be sent to an endo for treatment but rather to Rikshospitalet in Oslo, Norway where you will meet 3, and only 3 people that are to re-evaluate you and decide if you really have the diagnose TransSexual Type F.64.0.
    If you are diagnosed F.64.1-9 you do Not receive any further treatment and are simply sent back to your previous health care/therapist.
    There will be No follow-up on people failing the evaluation and really no second opinions either (as you can only complain about the diagnose received to the 3 people that gave it to you in the first place, and they're done with you).

    If you do get the F.64.0 however you will have to start RLE right away and disclose your new gender to everyone you know - work, family, friends and live as the gender you are transitioning to for one year.
    During this period you will need to show you can be stable and meet the diagnostic criteria. After which and if successful you will receive an endocrinological evaluation and likely get on hrt.

    And here again is where this differs from other countries (eg. US); There is no "part" transition in Norway, there is Full or Nothing.
    After you've lived yet another year, this time on hrt though you will be set up for SRS and if necessary/wanted FFS, breast implants and other surgeries.
    There may also be a waiting list in all this and the transition may take 8-10 years to complete.

    And from statistics I've read, about 25% of the trans* people being sent to Rikshospitalet for an evaluation to transition gets a "yes".
    The remaining 75% gets a "no" and is simply sent home, as said; no follow-up, no second opinion and no help - ever.
    Most of those getting the help lies or avoid saying too much in order to increase their chances for getting through, and will have to agree to get the full package (SRS/castration) which is the Only deal.
    (On the bright side if you get the help through them you'd be getting everything for free though).

    There's been a few articles in the news I've seen from the last few years complaining about that Rikshospitalet is putting way to strict requirements on people wanting to transition, and that they (the 3 people) have monopoly for the help and fate of every trans* person in Norway.

    I can only hope that with the uprising of the trans community it will become easier to get the help needed here in Norway too (rather sooner than later).



    As for me I wish to transition at my own pace and only a "part" transition until further, but the dysphoria I've been feeling (self-hate/disgust, unease, fear, short depressions?, aggression, loss of focus/concentration) have had to be dealt with somehow. In turn and going against all risks, I have chose to take the route of self-administration of whatever I can get across the border into this country (With extensive research to ensure my safety as far as I can of course).

    I do have an appointment with my GP on 1th of July and will bring everything I'm taking then and taken so far and discuss the issue and possibility of (hopefully) getting the blood work done etc. to ensure my general health even though it is self-administrated.
    And even though no GP can prescribe any medication for this diagnosis, I guess there's a slight change another semi-related diagnosis could be used to at least get one of the medications needed prescribed under that instead, but still probably getting my hopes up too much here now, as she'd have to agree to it all in the first place anyway.



    Summary of the Norwegian health care system to date is: Top of the world - unless you are a Trans* person.

    Thanks for reading ~Amalie
    Last edited by Rianna Humble; 06-11-2016 at 04:41 PM. Reason: Unnecessarily rude comments removed

  2. #2
    I've made it and love it Jennifer-GWN's Avatar
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    Argh... Archaic ... That's quite a step back from progressive in determination and ownership of ones transition process. It forces unnatural acts.

    I feel for you, empathize, and understand. For many years the process in Canada was somewhat similar in needing to fulfill the criteria of a mental health board which had in itself a long funnel process. This too caused many to take unnatural acts as well. Thankfully thing are much better and improvements are underway regarding the surgeries aspects as well.

    Hang in there, gather your thoughts and ready yourself. how you articulate your feelings and needs will be important and I'm guessing the "board" will be looking for wavers or lack of conviction in your response to questions. Insure you have no doubt and give them no cause to doubt based on your descriptions and answers.

    Best of luck in your path forward.

    Cheers... Jennifer
    I am who I am... I'm happy...I mean truly to the bone happy...and at peace with myself for the first time ever. I'm confident and content as the woman I am.

  3. #3
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    That is oppressive. It sounds like WPath recommendations from earlier years with layers of bureaucracy. I would also fear a high suicide attempt rate for the 75% rejected.

    While I understand your choice, please continue to take care of yourself. Self administering can be dangerous and I hope your GP supplements with testing.

    I also wish you the best going forward. Please keep us updated.

  4. #4
    Junior Member Amalie's Avatar
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    Well first of all; still alive, and thank you both for the support

    Done some more research on the matter as well after wpath was mentioned, not sure if they are involved anymore but seem they were at least: http://www.hbrs.no/no/div_fra_gamles...h.9UFRnM0P.ips.

    However did some reading on this too which seem to be the latest one, and which states the Gender team is following the HBIGDA Standard of care: http://www.hbrs.no/no/div_fra_gamles...s.9UFRvS2T.ips.

    What I also found is if they are following the HBIGDA, then receiving hormones legally and supervised May be a possibility as well (depending on how strict they are to the F.64.0 rule I guess): http://www.transgendercare.com/guida...hbigda01_7.htm -"..as an alternative to black-market or unsupervised hormone use."



    In other news and where Norway seem to be getting ahead of most other countries is 'legal gender change': https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_r...er_recognition.
    Guess for when I would like to change my legal name, changing the gender as well shouldn't be a problem in the future at least.

  5. #5
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    Hbigda = wpath.
    Last edited by LeaP; 06-19-2016 at 08:48 AM.
    Lea

  6. #6
    Junior Member Amalie's Avatar
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    Thank you LeaP, the connection I was looking for there wasn't really that far away anyway I guess, just read their wiki page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_...sgender_Health.

  7. #7
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    Amalie,
    The UK has a similar time scale but as far as I'm aware assessments can be made in far more venues, on the whole the UK is freer thinking in accepting people for transition.
    If you travel over the border does Sweden have a different policy ? I know you will then have to fund it but would it give you a better chance to transition.

  8. #8
    Junior Member Amalie's Avatar
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    Thanks for your input Teresa. I don't know much about the process in UK but I did some (quick) research on Sweden (and other nordic countries; Finland and Denmark) and it seem like the same 'standard care' system (wpath?) for trans* people is followed there as well.
    As here; only a smaller percentage receive the help they are seeking, and the waiting times alone may be years (maybe even more so now because of the 'monopoly' in the field being undermanned with the increasing number of trans* people seeking help).
    Many nordic trans* people seem to be pushed toward DIY instead (being in the waiting list or not) because of unnecessary long waiting times and uncertainties of receiving any treatment at all.
    I will see where my consultation with my GP next week leads me at least.

  9. #9
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    Amalie,
    I can assume from what you say about some doing the DIY route will slip under the radar, in that case your system won't get any better until they know the exact numbers they're dealing with.
    I mentioned in a recent thread that the national census in the UK to be held in 2021 will have far more questions about sexual/gender orientation . They claim it's to offer a better service for the trans community. I have a dilemma about that because I'm on official records with the NHS because of my gender counselling, my wife may not be happy that may have to tick certain boxes. Taken at face value it has to be a good thing because my counselling was cut short through a lack of funds.It will alway leave the question of what else the information will be used for when we discovered that our NHS had passed on patient information to Google !

  10. #10
    Junior Member Amalie's Avatar
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    I agree with the dark numbers, Teresa. And I guess one way to find those would be for us self-administering to have that information written in our official medical records (which I believe would be beneficial to the individuals regardless).
    I at least won't mind having this information along with any gender issues etc. in that record (though we don't have the NHS here either, but google probably already knows a lot more about me than any medical record ever will anyway).

    Also from some more research and related to your previous post itt; I did read about someone living in norway and traveling to UK for treatments/prescriptions and purchasing as well after finding a Dr. to help them out, then bringing a X month supply home (legally), while (what I assume) having bloodwork done at their local GP.
    Some others also claimed they received the medications/treatment from their usual GP in norway as well, whether that is just on 'luck' and how 'easy going' their GP is or there being certain circumstances improving their chances I don't know.

  11. #11
    Seasoned Member Rhonda Darling's Avatar
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    So much for the doctor's oath to do no harm. Failure to act because of a medical bureaucracy that sets quotas and throtles the rate of treatment to control costs (if you don't see that underlying cause . . .) amounts to medical malpractice. I suspect with the government paying the bill, there is zero legal recourse against the system -- witness the non appealable board that rules over you -- you're expected to sit down and shut up.

    Until we are all visible enough to not just be ridiculed or ignored, we'll have little power other than to look for the home remedy/black market treatments. I wish you well and please be very careful self-medicating.

    Rhonda
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    Be all the woman that you can be!
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    . . . and now, On With The Show!

  12. #12
    Junior Member Amalie's Avatar
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    Rhonda
    Thank you, and I'll be as careful as can be

    And I can definitely see money being a factor here being the gov. that pays for it all.
    As for legal recourses against it, I've yet to see one. Only a few news articles about it and some norwegian forums discussing it, but I guess the number of visible trans* people in Norway is also quite low (considering our total population as well).
    So far since 1962 there have been 400 people or so that have gone through and gotten help at the state hospital (Rikshospitalet).

    There are some loopholes I guess (as mentioned in my previous post), where a Dr. may be able to prescribe certain medication after disclaiming all responsibility for possible adverse effects arising (eg. 'taken upon the patients own risk'), if it's in the best interest for the patient - as alternative to the black market for instance.


    --------------


    Also July 2nd now so time for a update from me; I had my consultation with my GP yesterday and everything is out on the table there now.
    Wasn't the 'loophole' kind of lucky this time (maybe next?) but there was no problem getting my bloodwork/testing done there at least - still remains to see how detailed/useful I'll get my results back though.

    As kindof expected, hrt was a bit outside her area/knowledge as she's not an endo, but I did bring some lists of risks and what's usually tested for on mtf hrt in the lab, as well as the medication and doses I'm on.
    Other than the testing the consultation mostly consisted of questions regarding my gender, sexuality, family and experience presenting female.
    She also offered to refer me to a sexologist as well, which I accepted, and set me up for a follow-up appointment in 2 months.

    I plan on staying on the same low-mid dose as I've been on until then, unless the test result should come back with some bad indicator at least.
    Last edited by Rianna Humble; 07-02-2016 at 02:31 AM. Reason: Let's keep the politics out of this thread

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