The Price of Moving Forward

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I can understand it...i really hope things work out for you..
your honesty and good nature are huge plusses and will get you through the toughest situations..

that being said (hammer drops...heh)

i'd simply say you cannot negotiate or control gender dysphoria... it boxes you in...just it like it already has done to you.... the way you handled your presentation is a good example...you cannot predict the course of GD.

i'm with you 100% on going slow and i have no idea where you will end up.. but you are holding on tight to something about maleness for whatever reason, and GD will not let you get away with it...

I think your plan and ideas are postiive and constructive...dont take it the wrong way... but no more promises( you already found that out), and i have to tell you that my gut reaction is you are better off being wide OPEN to anything, allowing your thinking mind to consider your options fully and openly...that includes everything.... my experience was fighting it in any way just made it worse..

sometimes its hard to express what i'm trying to say and it sounds harsh but i really feel you holding on so tightly to things is a big risk of making GD worse..and thus making things harder than neccessary for everyone

[tgirlamc]

Marcelle!

What a wonderful post to wake up to! I am happy you can see a path that will move things forward for you...Onward we go!!!!....

[arbon]

I guess I don't understand. You like your male body and don't want to change it but want hrt to calm the dysphoria. What is causing the dysphoria if not being unhappy being a woman with a male body?

[Marcelle]

snip . . . I think your plan and ideas are postiive and constructive...dont take it the wrong way... but no more promises( you already found that out), and i have to tell you that my gut reaction is you are better off being wide OPEN to anything, allowing your thinking mind to consider your options fully and openly...that includes everything.... my experience was fighting it in any way just made it worse . . . snip sometimes its hard to express what i'm trying to say and it sounds harsh but i really feel you holding on so tightly to things is a big risk of making GD worse..and thus making things harder than neccessary for everyone

Hi Kaitlyn,

You are correct . . . no more promises which is what we (my wife and I) agreed to. I can only tell her what I know/feel at any given time with no understanding of where end game may be for me. She agrees with that and has made no promises to remain should things just get too difficult for her. Will the androgen blockers only work? Can't answer that but I guess I have to try. BTW you did not come off as harsh . . . realistic yes . . . harsh no

I guess I don't understand. You like your male body and don't want to change it but want hrt to calm the dysphoria. What is causing the dysphoria if not being unhappy being a woman with a male body?

Hi Arbon,

Fair question and one I will try to answer but I am not sure if it will make sense. Am I woman? Yes, I know that in my core. Do I feel trapped in a male body? No but, then that is assuming that gender dysphoria stems from body dysmorphia in each person's case. My dysphoria is not driven by my appearance, my masculine features masculine build and with the exception of body hair issues, I have no problems with how I look, present, appear or whatnot to the outside world. My presentation screams . . . male, trans, whatever but I am fine with that. It is who I am and like any woman . . . it is the body I need to live with and make the best of. My dysphoria comes from an internal sense of self and how I define myself. I may live 24/7 as a woman, have/will change my documentation to define me legally as a woman but sometimes my thoughts are still chaotic and in essence still very male. In my opinion it has nothing to do with what is between my legs or how I look. It does however have everything to do with how I feel mentally and emotionally. Sometimes I feel fine other times I do not but again, it is not me looking in the mirror wishing I looked more feminine, it is about emotions, thoughts and being (for me).

Is this odd? I suppose. Do I not conform to the trans checklist? I suppose. Does it make me odd, wrong, a poser, confused? I guess you could argue that point. However, it cannot negate that I am woman anymore than anyone here cannot argue the same. Perhaps I am still in denial and some day I will feel differently and want to go all the way to end game. Then again perhaps I won't. Perhaps the androgen blockers will lower my testosterone enough to calm the racing thoughts. Perhaps it is about chemistry and the high levels of testosterone are messing with a sense of calm?

Cheers all

Marcelle

[arbon]

Am I woman? Yes, I know that in my core

My presentation screams . . . male, trans, whatever but I am fine with that.

I do want to be clear with everyone, I still like my body as it is

My dysphoria comes from an internal sense of self and how I define myself. I may live 24/7 as a woman, have/will change my documentation to define me legally as a woman but sometimes my thoughts are still chaotic and in essence still very male.

It does sound like a very messed up chaotic and confusing way to live. Your between being a man or a woman, trying to be both and neither at the same time. Can you feel whole, complete that way?
Keep working on it, trying to sort it out and make some sense of all this. Figure out who you are.

[Zooey]

My presentation screams . . . male, trans, whatever but I am fine with that. It is who I am and like any woman . . . it is the body I need to live with and make the best of.

Except that it's not like any woman, and it's not the body you need to live with? For one thing, having a cross-sex body from your identity is very different from having an aligned body with issues you need to work to accept. I started with a cross-sex body that caused me great discomfort, and I now have a woman's body that I need to learn to love. I can say from experience that they are very different things.

For another, you have an option for bringing your body far more inline with your identity, both functionally and aesthetically. I think that choosing not to take it says a lot more about you and where you are with your identity than you might think.

Is this odd? I suppose. Do I not conform to the trans checklist? I suppose. Does it make me odd, wrong, a poser, confused? I guess you could argue that point.

That fact that you like your body is very odd, IMO. Do you conform to a trans checklist? Depends. In the umbrella sense? There's no checklist. In the "I'm a woman" sense? I have a lot of feelings about that... It's complicated, and discussing it gets potentially hurtful in a hurry.

Still, I really wonder whether you actually like your body, or whether you're just stuck in a hostage situation where rather than negotiating for freedom, you're hoping that negotiating for sandwiches will make you feel good enough.

[Starling]

...she agreed that I should move forward with change of "gender designation" on my documentation. The name change is in process but the gender marker was a bit of a sticking point for her...

That's an effing big deal, Marcelle; she is agreeing to be married to a woman. Meanwhile, wow! What a powerful reason you have for loving your body as it is.

Lallie

[Bria]

Marcelle, I glad to hear that your wife is willing to stick with you as you move forward, at least for now. And your go slow approach is, I believe, an appropriate response. I hope it works out for you and your wife. I will continue to remember you in my prayers.

Hugs, Bria

[Marcelle]

Hmmm . . . to be honest Zooey/Arbon, I needed to calm myself before responding. I do thank you for your observations and in-depth analysis of my psyche and soul. It is comforting to have people who know me so well from the brief glimpse of what I post here. Oh I know you are going to say, it is tough love, experience, been there done that got the t-shirt . . . I get that. However, as much as you think you got me figured out to be honest . . . you don't know me, you don't know what I go through or how I live my life. Okay, I posted something here and I expected honest responses and you provided . . . we are five by five now. So let me be honest in my reply back to you.

snip . . . Your between being a man or a woman, trying to be both and neither at the same time.

Arbon,

Thanks much for an off handed way of telling me I am not authentic . . . neither a woman or man . . . very nice. So I suppose in order to conform to your idea of what a woman is I have to what . . . alter my body chemistry, grow breasts, remove my penis? Why? Because you did and that is the only way forward. Am I confused? Sure, but I don't think there is a soul here who has not been confused or is now confused. However my decisions are such that I make them to deal with real life and the feelings of those around me . . . I don't think that makes me messed up.



Zooey,

snip . . . Except that it's not like any woman, and it's not the body you need to live with? For one thing, having a cross-sex body from your identity is very different from having an aligned body with issues you need to work to accept. I started with a cross-sex body that caused me great discomfort, and I now have a woman's body that I need to learn to love. I can say from experience that they are very different things.

Note the highlighted "I did this, I did that, I believe". You are you, I am me and what you believe is the only way forward is what is good for you. Not once have I gravitated here and accused anyone of not knowing what they are doing based on how I choose to handle my transition. Yet you shoot foot loose and fancy free with myself and others because you believe you have an in-depth perspective on what it means to be a woman. While you are most certainly entitled to your opinion and certainly entitled to espouse how messed up I am . . . it has an undertone of arrogance so it is not well meaning.

I think that choosing not to take it says a lot more about you and where you are with your identity than you might think..

Please enlighten me since you have me figured out so perfectly. Are you saying because I cannot commit then I have no right calling myself a woman? I am fake, a fraud? I live this each day the same as you, I am out the world the same as you and I work as a woman each day in an a very tough environment to be so . . . same as you. However, you seem to believe that because I have not altered myself in some manner it what . . . makes me less authentic than you. Nice . . . very nice.

That fact that you like your body is very odd, IMO. Do you conform to a trans checklist? Depends. In the umbrella sense? There's no checklist. In the "I'm a woman" sense? I have a lot of feelings about that... It's complicated, and discussing it gets potentially hurtful in a hurry.

I am glad I am just "odd" and not "messed up" . . . whew. I am fully aware of your feelings on the subject as it quite evident in your responses that unless you follow the same path as you . . . you can never be a woman in your eyes.

Still, I really wonder whether you actually like your body, or whether you're just stuck in a hostage situation where rather than negotiating for freedom, you're hoping that negotiating for sandwiches will make you feel good enough.

I am going to cut you some slack on this one in that you were not implying that somehow my wife is some horrible harpy holding me hostage. However if that was your intent . . . you are way out of line.

I make decisions which affect my life and yes I do have to take into account those around me. I don't know what choices you have made in your life so I can't speak to your experience but I have had to make life and death decisions both for myself and others. This is no different . . . did I take the fact that I was preparing to destroy the life of someone I loved into my decision making matrix? You bet. Does that mean I may have to eat some sandwiches while I move forward? Likely. However that is my decision. What don't you get about the fact that I don't feel the need to alter my body? Seriously you talk about crossed sexed bodies like there is a how to guide on being trans. So by your definition someone who goes on HRT but does not have GCS is what . . . not true to themselves? I guess since you have not had GCS yet you would probably cut them slack but I also suspect once you do . . . well just saying . . . all those only on HRT won't pass your high standard of being trans and definitely not being a woman.

Marcelle

[Zooey]

Marcelle...

At the end of the day, I am just a talking head on the internet. I have a certain perspective based on my experiences, and that's where I respond from. I actually didn't want to get too direct, because, more than anything else, you confuse the hell out of me. I have no desire to hurt you, and so I apologize if I did.

Let me be clear about my perspective, because clearly dancing around it doesn't do any good, and that way you can feel fine ignoring everything I say. I don't believe in the idea of "trans" as an umbrella concept - I think it's silly, and renders the term meaningless. The umbrella definition certainly isn't the opposite of "cis", which is what "trans" actually means. I don't believe in "social dysphoria" without "body dysphoria". To my mind, a male-bodied person comfortable with (and especially enjoying) having a male body is more or less the definition of a cisgender male. Being gender non-conforming is not the same thing as being transexual, no matter how extremely gender non-conforming you may be.

I put a lot of stock in HRT. Two years ago, I wouldn't have said the things I said today. It's not because I got meaner in that time period; it's because I have seen firsthand how fundamentally different my relationship with my body and the outside world is due to HRT. Testosterone fundamentally changes so many things. I literally don't think the way I used to - I can't. I certainly don't feel the way I used to (or used to NOT feel, as the case may be). Being perceived as female a large percentage of the time, rather than perceived as a "trans male", has changed the way people treat me, which has shifted my perspective on a lot of things.

A lot of trans people (both by my definition and otherwise) disagree with me on lots of that... You should feel 100% free to do so as well. I won't be offended; to the contrary, I don't feel good about feeling the way I do, but it is what it is.

Look, I think you are an incredibly genuine, authentic person. I have never thought anything to the contrary. I do not think of you as a man. I struggle to think of you as a woman though, at least in the same way as most of the women I know (cis and trans), for the reasons above. It's entirely likely that that's MY problem.

I am going to cut you some slack on this one in that you were not implying that somehow my wife is some horrible harpy holding me hostage. However if that was your intent . . . you are way out of line.

I did not mean it that way. If anybody is holding you hostage in my metaphor, it's yourself. It's always ourselves who do it.

So by your definition someone who goes on HRT but does not have GCS is what . . . not true to themselves? I guess since you have not had GCS yet you would probably cut them slack but I also suspect once you do . . . well just saying . . . all those only on HRT won't pass your high standard of being trans and definitely not being a woman.

It's an arbitrary thing, and I get that, but I can say that I have a lot less trouble relating to people who choose not to get GCS than I do people who are not on HRT. For one, compared to HRT, the medical risks are HUGE. For two, I don't interact with their genitals, so I don't care. I DO interact with their hormones though, constantly. I interact with them via their actual body, and how I perceive them by default without having to engage my conscious brain and remind myself. I interact with them through responding to certain things in a way that feels shared. I interact with them through having certain shared experiences of development. In my experience, HRT changes SO MUCH.

Is all of that unfair? Sure. Is it real? As far as I can tell, and in my experience (and the experience of lots of other women I know)... Absolutely.

Listen... Be well, and be you, whatever you believe that to be. You don't need my approval.

[arbon]

I think you are authentic. But your not unique. I thought you might be until I read this thread. A bad ass woman doing it her way transitioning without any medical help. Now though, your story and path are sounding much like most other transitioned woman's stories.

[SIZE=1]- - - Updated - - -[/SIZE]

And just for the record I've never said all that medical stuff that we do is what makes us women.

[Badtranny]

this is fun

Marcelle, I loved your reply to the girls, (cuz I love a fighter) but I have to say that I'm a little taken aback by the defensiveness. You are smart enough to know what defensiveness usually means, so I'll spare you the lecture, but let me at least try to adjust your perspective a little.

You have been roundly accepted and mostly admired by this current crop of post transition gals around here. Basically, you're in the tribe, and when you say stuff that makes the tribe uncomfortable, they start beating the drums a bit. This is to be expected right? We come here to share our tales of transition and sometimes we challenge each other's perceptions of what a transition really is.

Your recent revelations are fascinating to me, but to most of the girls it means something is wrong. Maybe everything is fine, but maybe it's not, and maybe the challenge to your stated position will cause you to reexamine that position. Maybe it won't. Who knows, but I think the important thing here is that we all remain honest with each other. How do we preach the value of authenticity in transition, and then look the other way when one of our own goes off the reservation?

You are saying things that don't make sense to most of us, and intellectual honesty pretty much demands that we say so. My advice to you, (in regards to this forum anyway) is to relax and not take it personally. It's just commentary after all, and at the end of the day, you gotta do what you gotta do.

Just keep keepin' it real, and appreciate that these girls will too. We're not all gonna agree on everything, ya know. :-)

[LeaP]

Theresa's comment was quite sympathetic, Marcelle.

[Brooklyn]

Marcelle, are you thinking you could take spiro or some other t-blocker without taking estradiol? Check it out with your endo but I don't think that's safe and you will probably feel really fatigued and angry all the time. I read that eventually you can have liver and bone density issues. So take care of yourself and do what the doctor says!

Estradiol valerate is my best friend; I feel so much better on HRT than I did years ago before transition. You can still workout, chop firewood, and be just as athletic as you want. I hear it eventually makes you a foxy genius also.

[Marcelle]

Okay . . . so as not to come off defensive I want go back to my original aspect of the post . . . paying everything to get through this.

If I had posted . . . my wife and I had a talk and irrespective of her wants, her hopes and her pleas, I have decided to not compromise and just wreck havoc on her life after 28 years of standing by me through some serious stuff (trans issues aside), discussion would have gone a whole different way. There would have been sympathy for the loss and lots of congrats on moving forward - smiley face and thumbs up emojis all around. However, the advance would have progressed forward but unfortunately there is always collateral damage and that would have been my wife. She is the one who was called to Germany to basically say goodbye after the IED strike, she is the one who watched me struggle to learn to walk again, she is one who watched me struggle through PTSD due to all the abhorrent things I had to do in the name of democracy, and now this and she never batted an eye or offered an ill word in my direction. I pushed and I pushed and nothing . . . until now. So yes, you are all right . . . if things were different, if she wasn't in my life I would be down the HRT road quicker than you can say "one, two, three" and I would beat your count of three. I could have, she gave me the out during our conversation and when I appeared to waiver in that direction . . . I watched the light of joy that has been my rock for the past ten years, bleed from her eyes. It was like someone reached inside of her and took her soul away. I am sure some of you have been there and seen that and still moved forward with your transition. Perhaps you are made of stronger stuff or perhaps I am just a coward. However in the end, I came to the best compromise I could to give her time to adjust. We all make decisions and guess what . . . sometimes you don't always get what you want. Sometimes doing the right thing is the hard choice and yes . . . I will pay for it. Most likely I will spiral into an abyss of misery and perhaps one day pay the Ferryman his toll . . . which he should have collected long ago . . . it would have been easier than this misery.

Arbon . . . I spoke in haste and after a re-read of your post I realize it was coming from a place of kindness not facetiousness. My apologies as I have nothing but the utmost respect for you.

Zooey . . . some of things I said were uncalled and from a place of darkness which I now live in. I hate that part of me but it seems to be coming more prevalent these days and where I land . . . well I guess we'll see. I do apologize if I offended and likewise I respect you and your opinion. You said I could be honest with you so I will. I don't agree with your stance on what constitutes a woman when it comes to those of us who choose to transition. You stated that you don't have a problem with those who choose not to undergo GCS because you are not interacting with their genitals. However, those on HRT you interact with on a hormonal level because you see them more as a woman. I am sorry, I have seen plenty of post HRT women and some have no physical change of note so I am not sure what you are talking about unless you are implying you can sense one another on some neurochemical level? Regardless, to me your argument holds as much logic as those women of TERF who imply we are not real women because we don't have an understanding of the female shared consciousness because we experienced male privilege at some point in our lives so by definition we cannot be women. It is a hurtful argument to those of us who choose a different path or don't reach the same headspace and timing you are currently in.

Look folks, I am going to back away from things for awhile as I have in this instance "paid everything" to keep my relationship in tact. Is it the right decision? Can't say but, it is the hard choice I have made. Will it be my undoing? The balance of probability says . . . yes and I will cross that path when I get there. I hold you all in deep respect. No I am not running for the hills I just need to work through this and I truly believe my path confuses too many here for any understanding or kindred spirit. So I will navigate this rocky point on my own and perhaps it will be everything I have this time or perhaps I will come out the other end unscathed . . . time will tell.

Marcelle

[Mirya]

Marcelle,

Your situation is definitely very confusing to me. I have good friends who have been on HRT for many, many years, who are still married with supportive wives. But they do not live full-time. They take HRT as it eases their mental anxiety (other anti-depressants and medications did not work for them). But again, they are part-time. You on the other hand... you're already full-time, without having started HRT... which is highly unusual.

Who are you really? What are you really? Who can say? HRT will help to answer that question in due time, I'm sure. As Zooey said, it tends to have a very profound effect - on everything. You are definitely on the right path to figuring yourself out for who you really are... Good luck and all the best to you!

[nikkiwindsor]

Marcelle,

I'm hoping and praying all the best for you and your wife as you guys traverse the challenges that lie ahead. The two of you are tough people who have a proven track record for surmounting enormous difficulties. And I'm inspired and learning from the life experiences you're sharing with our community.

Nikki

[KymberlyOct]

Marcelle, When you read this now or in the future I want to tell you although we do not communicate directly I read your posts regularly. I find you to be intelligent, courageous and honest with us. In my opinion your last post was the most honest you have been with yourself - at least for our consumption. I wish you nothing but the best and your wife as well.

[Zooey]

I don't agree with your stance on what constitutes a woman when it comes to those of us who choose to transition. You stated that you don't have a problem with those who choose not to undergo GCS because you are not interacting with their genitals. However, those on HRT you interact with on a hormonal level because you see them more as a woman. I am sorry, I have seen plenty of post HRT women and some have no physical change of note so I am not sure what you are talking about unless you are implying you can sense one another on some neurochemical level? Regardless, to me your argument holds as much logic as those women of TERF who imply we are not real women because we don't have an understanding of the female shared consciousness because we experienced male privilege at some point in our lives so by definition we cannot be women. It is a hurtful argument to those of us who choose a different path or don't reach the same headspace and timing you are currently in.

So, I'm not gonna lie, "passing" is part of it. I'm not proud of it, but it's unquestionably true. Remember, though, that passing is not the same as being conventionally pretty or beautiful. I have yet to meet anybody on HRT who did not feminize substantially, and that includes a number of older (than me at least) transitioners. Not everybody is the prettiest girl in the world (I certainly don't think I am), but they all look a lot more feminine than they did pre-HRT (and it's not the makeup - I know makeup).

I wish I could explain it to you better than I did, but my relationship with other women AS women does happen on a lower level, and it's a combination of about a million things. I guess the best thing I can say is... Do whatever you're going to do. If you end up on HRT, talk to me 6-12 months after you start, and we can discuss all the things that surely haven't changed from your perspective.

Here's the secret about TERFs, btw... They're wrong, and actively so, about a few things, in some very fundamental ways, and I could go on and on and on about that. I don't like 'em. That said, they're not wrong about everything. Female socialization DOES affect people, as does male socialization. Male privilege is legit, and the vast majority of us (especially "late" transitioners) absolutely benefitted from it in one way or another. Experiencing life as a woman - that is to say, being treated as a woman - IS different from living/being treated as trans. Lastly, and most importantly, men are disproportionately responsible for the oppression of, and violence against, women. TERFs focus on the penis (whether it's still there or not), and I think that's a mistake. I focus on testosterone, because personal experience tells me THAT's where the vast majority of the aggression and the physical advantage comes from. I would not expect anybody - trans or cis - who hasn't felt that change for themselves to appreciate the incredible contrast between running on testosterone and running on estrogen, but that experience has shaped my view on what that change means and how important it is.

[jaleecd]

Marcelle
I hope you show your post to your wife, so that She understands the loving heart that holds her emotional well being foremost in the decisions her warrior Princess is trying to make. You will make the best choices for your family. you could not do otherwise. I pray peace for you both.

[Marcelle]

So, I'm not gonna lie, "passing" is part of it. I'm not proud of it, but it's unquestionably true . . . snip . . . I wish I could explain it to you better than I did, but my relationship with other women AS women does happen on a lower level, and it's a combination of about a million things . . . snip . . .

Here's the secret about TERFs, btw... They're wrong, and actively so, about a few things, in some very fundamental ways, and I could go on and on and on about that. I don't like 'em . . . snip . . . TERFs focus on the penis (whether it's still there or not), and I think that's a mistake. I focus on testosterone, because personal experience tells me THAT's where the vast majority of the aggression and the physical advantage comes from. I would not expect anybody - trans or cis - who hasn't felt that change for themselves to appreciate the incredible contrast between running on testosterone and running on estrogen, but that experience has shaped my view on what that change means and how important it is.

Zooey,

My intent was not to get drawn into another crossing of pens and just leave with whatever grace I have left . . . however I cannot let this one go. So, I will throw my graceless self back into this diatribe.

You have a very strong opinion on what constitutes being a woman and seem to attach some sort of "them/us" litmus test. If you are on HRT then you belong to the "Joy Luck Club". If you are not then you will never understand because you can't. So by your definition, a person who is part-time on HRT is a woman even though they present male from time to time. They would feel the "feminine call" the same as you . . . running on estrogen I believe is your mark of measure? Yet you have openly posted that these folks are not being authentic so they cannot claim the title of woman. You a draw a distinction between TERFs and yourself yet you use the same "exclusionary" rhetoric they use . . . "you can't be a woman because you are not like me" . . . that is what their argument comes down to and that is what your argument comes down to. When somebody calls you on it . . . well you just trot out some mythical aspect and say "see . . . we are different . . . now fall from sight." So when it comes right down to it, all this being authentic stuff we talk about is all BS? You can only be authentic if you are like me or like her.

I came to this site three years ago to find kinship because I was floundering badly. I found it on the other side and as things progressed I found it on this side. However, it now appears that kinship only goes as far as your hormones for you and what the balance of probabilities would dictate others as well. So you keep us "odd ducks" around for amusement, to make yourself feel good because you are one step further and that makes you more of a woman? I worked in an environment where people thought they were "special" based solely on self perceived sense of uniqueness and it didn't make sense to me anymore than what you are saying makes sense. But that could just be me.

However, in my world we have a saying "you choose the hill you want to die on". This is not one. So Zooey . . . you win. You are a woman and I am just a delusional man who belongs nowhere. Now before anyone accuses me of being a sore sport, defensive or whatnot . . . folks I am tired. I have fought my entire life. I have fought against who I am (trans) repressing to the point of self-harm, I fought against demons which still haunt my dreams because of my job, I fought against significant physical injuries, I fought against hurtful comments and physical attack once I came out of the closet and now I am fighting against people in my own community from whom I am just looking for a bit of support to prop me up during a difficult time only to be told by some . . . take a hike buddy . . . no boys allowed. Now folks I get the whole "tough love" thing and I will be the first to admit I used it myself on this very forum. However, sometimes people flounder and are just looking for a bit support or a kind reset. So to have someone bull forward and tell you that you really don't belong because you are not like them . . . it hurts, hurts a lot.


I consider myself a rather tough person but even tough people have limits and I have reached mine. I am tired of having to choose between hurting the one bright aspect of my life (my wonderful wife) and me. I am tired of trying to feel like I belong somewhere and have kinship with somebody only to be told I don't. So you win Zooey . . . I am just an ugly old white dude who has no right to call himself a woman because I will never understand what that means because I am sporting a non-feminine face, a masculine body and less we forget testosterone. Your heart, your soul, you very being has nothing to do with it . . . only what you can see and measure by some standard set by yourself.

So I am tired and will meander down the path to shoulder this burden alone and perhaps fate will be kind and I will pay the Ferryman his last due before I hurt anyone else.

Regards

Marcelle

[STACY B]

Yep I have seen this deal play out time and time again and I am not immune to it ether. I always lay in wait for my turn at the Dreaded talk,, And I know down deep that my day will come. But as for the bit of a Frickus going on between the two on the Boards here that Testosterone talking to Estrogen ,, So I pay no attention to all of that,, It will fix itself once the right medication is provided ,,lol,,,

Read what she said in the beggining,, The MAN is talking through her and tring to hold on to the last bit of it, And a soldier at that, So after it's all said and done the right meds will take the wind out of HER SAILS,,lol

[Heidi Stevens]

Marcelle, I for one have your back, Sis! You are looking for answers and some support, not rejection and ridecule. There are good Samaritans out here and we will help you and anyone else anyway we can, as positively as we can. So don't give up on your quest to resolve your struggles. I sure don't have all the answers, but I'm not going to leave someone behind to be picked on by the vultures, when I'm on the same path. Remain positive and things will resolve themselves. PM me if you need some support, but so far you're doing petty good defending yourself. And defending yourself is something we shouldn't have to do on this site.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

.........................................


I am tired of having to choose between hurting the one bright aspect of my life (my wonderful wife) and me. I am tired of trying to feel like I belong somewhere and have kinship with somebody only to be told I don't. ...........

So I am tired and will meander down the path to shoulder this burden alone and perhaps fate will be kind and I will pay the Ferryman his last due before I hurt anyone else.

Regards

Marcelle

Welcome to the club...
I got very tired too
but unfortunately you dont get to decide Marcelle... thats what its about.. you are who you are no matter what you or I or anybody says... sounds so trite, but we all know how NOT trite it is...

it goes both ways remember.... when person A says "i had to transition or die" or "i had to transition" and person B says "i love my wife too much to transition".... there are 2 sides of pain..
how do you think it feels to me, who lost my job, my wife, had to earn back her trust and respect (cuz i was a big time liar/promiser for a while) when someone says they love their family too much..
too much for what?

it feels horrible to me still...i had to choose, and in the end it felt like no choice..
an unfair emotional response of mine would be "i guess Person A is better than me"...she was stronger.... she loved her wife more than i did and so she didnt transition...

i actually dont feel that way anymore but i used to..
and as a pragmatic analyzing math head.... when you say to your wife, "hey all i can do is be honest , and see where this goes". you've already crossed the huge line... this gender problem is highest priority.,..you cant have two highest priorities... an understanding and loving wife has the choice to stay and support or not, but she has to accept that until the GD is beat, she is #2...its brutal and its true




anyway when i hear your story i think its most likely going to be that you will end up having no choice...
i feel for you because you are doing your own version of coping/denying/prevaricating/negotiating...etc.... the only thing that works is progress towards yourself...the GD comes when that is not happening for you...it drifts away with progress...


You are doing exactly what many of us did...

When you say some of the things you say about what you desire and what you are going to do, i dont really beleive it...because i've seen it so many times...
when pretty much every attempt to go part way is met with initial success and then it morphs into GD and wanting "more"..I've seen it so many times..

i know you beleive it , because i've seen it so many times...

like i said, my constructive answer is to stay OPEN... this is your best chance to skate through the way YOU want to... who cares what fricking tribe i'm in or you're in..

This is brutal..you are doing great...keep doing it your way, as best you can...

[jentay1367]

And defending yourself is something we shouldn't have to do on this site.

I don't think that's happening here. We spend a lifetime justifying things. You don't need this site or these people or their permission to transition or not transition. Regardless of the path we choose, we chose it. Without some opportunity for introspection and soul searching, what may be the purpose of this place? Cheerleading for transition or not transitioning should not be the purpose of this place any more than your therapist should be unequivocally telling you that you are or are not TS. The women here who have fought the monster and won are merely sharing their experiences in an effort to show you where the land mines are so you don't get body parts blown off.....least ways not until you're ready. In the long run, this place should be a forum for finding the right questions to ask yourself. It seems it serves that purpose quite well.