Deception Only Hinders Dressing

[Krissi]

I told my wife while we were still dating, an opportunity presented itself, we were talking about kinks and fetishes and such and since crossdressing wasn't the weirdest thing mentioned in those conversations I put it out there. I never really felt the pressure of hiding from a spouse, now I hid and still hide from parents/brother/inLaws and will forever and sometimes that can be its own form of torture.

But to me I think a lot of folks over look a very big key factor. Telling your wife/gf/SO is not as much about is she accepting/unaccepting as we tend to think it is. I think it has to do with the communication you have as a couple. It just seems to me that the accepting spouses tend to be from couples that talk openly about things (and not just whats for dinner or how was work) but really get into who each other is, their dreams (not goals) their desires. And what I mean is I have a goal to have my own office in a few years, thats something everyone knows. But I have a dream that I can lose enough weight, get in good enough shape that I can go out dressed on a special occasion and not feel embarrassed in my own mind. Obviously I'm not telling that one to many people.

When I give advice to others on how to tell their wife, its always more about talking to her, not telling her. No one wants to hear that old phrase "we need to talk." You have to ease into these things. Start talking about things, asking her what she likes, letting her know what you like things like that.

And JoAnn makes a very valid point. When you've been down this road a long time, its harder than ever to come out. Times have changed, but that also depends on where you are too. I was just talking to a girl that works here in our office a couple days a week about how open the gay students are here in the high schools. Now I live in a metro area, it doesn't seem to matter as much who is gay, who's dating interracially or anything like that. I'm from a small country town, and still to this day, theres no openly gay folks in town, no one dates another race, people start to talk if you date someone more than a couple years of your age. I really think that if I had married a girl from back home, I'd probably still be hiding myself. I know I would if we lived there. Might be different say if we lived here.

My long drawn out rambling point is that there is more to coming out than just telling her so you don't have to hide. If you've never told her nothing more in depth than I like Pot Roast, its probably not going to go well. If your scared yourself of everyone else finding out, especially in a small town, then telling her might bring more stress cause its one more person that can leak your "terrible" secret either on purpose or accident. And I've seen a lot of threads talking about how someone thinks they are going to save a rocky relationship by all of a sudden telling the truth. It seems to me that has just led to more ammo for the divorce lawyer.

This was a great thread, a good topic to get folks talking. And it sounds to me like Tammy Marie is one of those special ladies that listens and tries to understand us, and its great to see her here with a thread that makes us think about our own situations.

[Anita Mae GG]

I was upfront and honest with my SO or future wife and I was met with " Well its just a phaze....right".
I am an active crossdresser and have been since 14 years old or so and told her this when we got togather. She still thinks its a phaze. To make things just a little worse she thinks now that I have completely "outgrown it"
How do you confront this, that, it is in your makeup. (no pun intended)
Honesty may be the best policy and all that but this is a little hard for me to keep hashing out with her when she appears to be happier when she thinks I have "outgrown it".

I think you need to get some info together, give it to her and tell her it is not just a phase and talk to her about it

[Anita Mae GG]

Good point Krissi. youhave to be able to communicate with your wife. If you haven't then you have put yourself in the position to have to work twice as hard as someone who has an open relationship....

[Keyplayer74]

I agree that honesty is the best policy. I tell my wife about everything else in my life and keep no secrets.. except for this. If I thought there was a way that this would impact her, then I might be inclined to tell her about it. There is something to be said about being able to have a happy marriage, and knowing that "I'm a CD" isn't on her mind. It would probably burden her to know it. Since I will never leave the house, or get active with my CDing (other than just enjoying myself at home) - I don't know what good could come of telling her other than I would have the truth out. Sometimes the truth hurts - how much of the truth do you want out there in the world? Would you want to wear a sign out in public that says, "I'm a CD"? Well, dang if you're going to be honest about it.. you probably should. The thing is.. after I tell my wife, I may as well be wearing that sign AT HOME. I don't want that sign on at home. I have to LIVE with her.. I don't want her to see me as any less of a person. That's what I'm afraid of. Once it's out, it can't be taken back. So I ask myself.. do I want to have as many happy years with her as possible.. or should I tell her and live out the rest of my marriage in shame? I think I'll take my chances with the closet... I have a degree of control over that at least.

[linnea]

Thank you, Tammie,
Your initial comments and the response have been enlightening. I am almost 60, but I have not told any personal friends nor my wife or grown children. I probably won't either. Yes, it is fear, and it is probably self-doubt. I find ways to go out, but I do dislike the deception and, of course, I risk being found out which would probably be messier in some ways than volunteering the information before accident detection.
On the other hand, I worry about the hurt, disillusionment, and anger--none of which I really want to face and deal with.
Since joining this site, however, I have had several revelations and new insights. And I'm trying to keep an open mind and to be honest with myself and others. I'll keep working at it.
Thank you all for your observations and you, Tammie, for initiating the thread.

[nikisbest]

I agree 100% on the being honest with your spouse.
When there have been years gone by and you have kept a secret
from your spouse, chances are your not going to tell them.
There is only one more thing I would like to say about this, how come
when a GG makes a comment about something like this, there is ALWAYS
someone, that has to say (YOUR JUDGING ME.) Lord help, these ladies arent
judging you, far from it. If they were judging us, they would have been on
this site bashing us for wearing something that is taboo, and doesnt really
fit well with society today.
Sorry I went off on that one, I just hate to hear someone say that about
any of the ladies on this site. We have enough problems dealing with close-
minded people, to jump on our supporters on this site.
OK, I am off my soap box.
Niki

[Wenda]

[QUOTE=Krissi It just seems to me that the accepting spouses tend to be from couples that talk openly about things (and not just whats for dinner or how was work) but really get into who each other is, their dreams (not goals) their desires.
This quote speaks loudly to my situation. My ex, whom I married when I was not yet 22 and she only 5 days 19, really didnt realize how strict her beliefs were. She helped me build a Wonder Woman outfit for a Halloween party, but never considered it crossdressing.
As I may have disclosed in prior posts, my urge to dress was not strong during my marriage. We separated in 2000, and I found my GF shortly after. Completely different personality. Non judgemental (maybe the result of oppressive religious school), and accepting.
When I rediscovered dressing in July, 2004, it truly was a re-awakening experience. I was in another city, and bought several items on my way home. During the six hour drive, I visualized (fantasized) how my discussion was going to evolve.
My GF did not share my new enthusiasm, however, and was hopeful that I could get a full refund for some of my stuff. She was open to change however, and we went from there. Without pressing the issue, but always replying honestly, Wenda became more and more accepted. By October, when we went to a festival in ND, she was moderately comfortable with Wenda.
Wenda brought a small pair of breast forms, a little bra, a thong, some thigh high stockings, and Jaya, my GFs alter ego was discovered. They had a great time (on my VIS card), and since then, have had a good, but somewhat complex relationship.
My point in this long story is that you can share your innermost feelings and desires with some partners, but not others. My ex was not a bad person, just trapped in her grandmothers social values.
Even if you can share your secret desires and dreams, it takes trust and time to be sufficiently confident with your partner to share something that many still view as abnormal. my two cents worth,

[Katiegirl]

Tammy Marie GG

You have made some very good points and with our younger members to tell their SO/girlfriend at the beginning of the relationship is a wise move.

As many of the older members have said in my youth TG's were in fear of ridical, being beaten up, loosing their job as well as their marriage and its hard to overcome that fear.

My wife did find out and divorced me citing my dressing as the cause, her solicitor(lawyer) advised her to tell my friends and threatened to restrict assess to my children. The tactic was to wear me down so I would give up everything, it didn't work and after a bitter fight there was a settlement that both of were able to live with. When the fight was over I found that I had only one or two friends left and things were difficult at work, so I moved away and started again.

Once the legal people were out of the way we built up a working arrangement that benefited the kids. A few years after the divorce in one of the very rare comments made by her on my dressing, it would seem that she feared my dressing would have been bad for the kids and that was one of the main reasons she divorced me.

Although I agree with all you said, the effect on children was not mentioned, and I know that this is a worry to many both closited and out. What are your thoughts of this!

I live alone now and able to express my female side when I want, but also I have a good social life with many female friends. I have not told them about Katie, but now if they ever found out I would discuss it with them.

I am glad that we have several GG like yourself who express their opinions well, keep posting.

[BrendaB GG]

Hi Tammie

I think your post is right on. I'm not as young as you are, I'm 47, so right in the middle of the extremes. We were married 28 years when my husband came out to me. He married me because he loved me and he thought that love would cure him. So you all know how that turned out!

Anyways, just over a year ago, he placed a book in my lap, and asked me to read it and then of course I knew. I then read another book on my own, and learned everything I could. Also my husband is not only a crossdresser, he's a transexual and I don't know what the future holds (do any of us, really?).

But I do know that i can't walk away from 28 years of love and that he treats me like a princess, even though I know he wants to be the princess sometimes too. We have 4 kids, a grandchild, a business and yes, its all just so complicated. But call me Pollyanna, I believe that all will work out and my husband is still the same person (only now so many things make sense to me finally!).

And you know what, i wish he had told me many years sooner, we have lost a lot of years of fun and excitement together. I'm willing to bet that my life is way more interesting than anybody I know! And my husband is happier than I have ever seen him.

Yeah, so I'm with Tammie. Find a way to tell your wives.

Brenda

[Sophia Rearen]

. We were married 28 years when my husband came out to me. He married me because he loved me and he thought that love would cure him. So you all know how that turned out!

Anyways, just over a year ago, he placed a book in my lap, and asked me to read it and then of course I knew. I then read another book on my own, and learned everything I could. Also my husband is not only a crossdresser, he's a transexual and I don't know what the future holds (do any of us, really?).

But I do know that i can't walk away from 28 years of love and that he treats me like a princess, even though I know he wants to be the princess sometimes too. We have 4 kids, a grandchild, a business and yes, its all just so complicated. But call me Pollyanna, I believe that all will work out and my husband is still the same person (only now so many things make sense to me finally!).

And you know what, i wish he had told me many years sooner, we have lost a lot of years of fun and excitement together. I'm willing to bet that my life is way more interesting than anybody I know! And my husband is happier than I have ever seen him.


Brenda

[SIZE="3"]
Wow, one of the most powerful replies I have read in a long time. Brenda, you're beautiful! [/SIZE]

[Veronica E. Scott]

Why is youth wasted on the young and that hind sight is always 20-20. In my case I grew up in a small fishing village in Massachusetts called Brant Rock all of my family lived there and still do What do you think would happen if I came out and told them that there son and grandson and nephew great nephew and great great grand nephew great great grandson liked to gress like a girl and wear girlie thing and then when he got married told his wife to be that he wanted to dress like a girl, especially in a very small town . In colonial times he would be beaten at the steak in the town center and this has happened to some of my relatives and I have documentation on this fact now it is in the 60ies and you want me to disclose to the whole town thAT i AM A LITTLE WEIRD you must have put your head on backwards this morning or you don't live in the same world that I do you learn at a very early age to keep your mouth shut and mind your own business and you dont go around telling people about your own personal business.

[Kimberley]

I agree 100% on the being honest with your spouse.
When there have been years gone by and you have kept a secret
from your spouse, chances are your not going to tell them.
There is only one more thing I would like to say about this, how come
when a GG makes a comment about something like this, there is ALWAYS
someone, that has to say (YOUR JUDGING ME.) Lord help, these ladies arent
judging you, far from it. If they were judging us, they would have been on
this site bashing us for wearing something that is taboo, and doesnt really
fit well with society today.
Sorry I went off on that one, I just hate to hear someone say that about
any of the ladies on this site. We have enough problems dealing with close-
minded people, to jump on our supporters on this site.
OK, I am off my soap box.
Niki

************
Nikki, you are right however, some of the GG's here are struggling as much as we are and sometimes they forget we are here to support them as much as they are for each other.

When that happens and she "lets loose" to vent, that is fine as long as it isnt destructive criticism. It doesnt happen often, but it does happen just as some of us do the same. I know I have and I dont mind being told about it either. Even at that, we hear the same judgment comment in threads started by one of us. We are a very diverse group and the great thing about this forum is that we can express ourselves as long as we are honest about it.

My observation seems to be the difference in generations that generally seem to lead to misunderstanding, particularly where communication is the topic. We older ones come from a different time and place where the attitudes were anything but tolerant in any way shape or form. The younger generations have more tolerance and sometimes they struggle to understand why we act and think as we do. There is nothing wrong with that as long as they take in our position as well.

The GG's are all great ladies and have a lot of strength that many of us could use. I always consider their opinions whether I agree with them or not because they are usually well thought out.

Thanks again Tammy. Great Thread!
Kimberley

[VeronicaMoonlit]

But I know my wife. I know how she feels about things. I know what there is to lose, and the benefits of coming out to her are only for me. I have to think of her and of us. That is more important to me than crossdressing in secret. Love is what is important here.

You don't "know". You may guess, but you don't really know with certainty. You're also taking away her opportunity to know and that's important.

I'm not married, but I did the same thing you did with my parents and sister. Not tell, to protect them (and me) out of fear of what they "might" say or do. I was guilty of selling their love short, and not trusting in them. I was wrong to do that.


Veronica

[Sophia Rearen]

I agree that honesty is the best policy. I tell my wife about everything else in my life and keep no secrets.. except for this. If I thought there was a way that this would impact her, then I might be inclined to tell her about it. There is something to be said about being able to have a happy marriage, and knowing that "I'm a CD" isn't on her mind. It would probably burden her to know it. Since I will never leave the house, or get active with my CDing (other than just enjoying myself at home) - I don't know what good could come of telling her other than I would have the truth out. Sometimes the truth hurts - how much of the truth do you want out there in the world? Would you want to wear a sign out in public that says, "I'm a CD"? Well, dang if you're going to be honest about it.. you probably should. The thing is.. after I tell my wife, I may as well be wearing that sign AT HOME. I don't want that sign on at home. I have to LIVE with her.. I don't want her to see me as any less of a person. That's what I'm afraid of. Once it's out, it can't be taken back. So I ask myself.. do I want to have as many happy years with her as possible.. or should I tell her and live out the rest of my marriage in shame? I think I'll take my chances with the closet... I have a degree of control over that at least.

Not to disagree. Just some thoughts. You're ok with her not knowing the real you then? And, since you haven't told her, you don't know what her reaction would be, so you really can't assume, can you?

[JoannaDees]

Excellent advice! The stress of secrets is horrible, and time only makes it worse. I'm scared silly of trying to meet my girl and having to tell her about this, but tell her I will. Even if she is my huckleberry, and I have no more desire to dress, I'll divulge in case it does come back.

[Anita Mae GG]

you must have put your head on backwards this morning or you don't live in the same world that I do

Actually I do live in your world and my head is on pretty straight and level too! Thanks for input and reminder that diversity is good and can be learned from

[ashlee chiffon]

hmmmm...now what low profile item to wear? maybe a hoop earring on my one pierced ear?
how about side zip pants? eyeliner? see thru blouse?
*L*...just KIDDING!

maybe some type of necklace...
now ya gots me thinkin'!

thanks luv..bobby

and Tammy Marie...i understand what you're saying completely and in my last 12 year relationship, it was that way from day one *my so's previous boyfriend was a cd!*
....but in a future relationship, i think i could live with just wearing panties and an occasional nightgown if that was all my SO would tolerate...
maybe i could playfully ask a new potential gf *i'm single now* if she would mind me trying on her panties and see how it goes from there. Would that work?

[Anita Mae GG]

hmmmm...now what low profile item to wear? maybe a hoop earring on my one pierced ear?
how about side zip pants? eyeliner? see thru blouse?
*L*...just KIDDING!

maybe some type of necklace...
now ya gots me thinkin'!

thanks luv..bobby

and Tammy Marie...i understand what you're saying completely and in my last 12 year relationship, it was that way from day one *my so's previous boyfriend was a cd!*
....but in a future relationship, i think i could live with just wearing panties and an occasional nightgown if that was all my SO would tolerate...
maybe i could playfully ask a new potential gf *i'm single now* if she would mind me trying on her panties and see how it goes from there. Would that work?

if you are happy with only wearing panties then that is fine, you are not makingyourself miserable which is my point...be honest...that is all.

[serinalynn]

Tammy, My wife knows and she accepts me wearing some feminine things, though, shes never seen me in a skirt or a dress, But thats OK, because she lets me wear some very feminine tops and womens, pants and jeans any-thing lingerie, including bras, garter belts and most lacy and frilly lingerie and night gowns. I have my own Lane Bryant charge card and always go to Lane Bryant www.lanebryant.com or Avenue www.avenue.com with dollars off coupons. My wife tells me I have too many feminine clothes, but let there be a sale and she says go buy something. I also do some serious shopping in the Jessica london Catalog www.jessicalondon.com
Go Figure!!! I also have a subscription to Figure Magazine.
www.figuremagazine.com


Serina Lynn

[ashlee chiffon]

honesty Is the best policy and a minimal amount of dressing would make me happy...i could live with just wearing panties daily as i have most of my life *though i would Prefer more*...but more important to me would be to enter into a meaningful, honest, and mutually rewarding relationship with love and trust as the bond! Was in a relationship where i could dress at will...but it lacked in love and it fell apart *after 12 years*...how i regret letting what i "thought" my urges were and selfishly letting them contribute to it falling apart. I know i'm going to shower my next love with lingerie and clothes if i can't do it for myself. If i'm lucky, it'll be for both of us!

[Ava Mouse]

Tammy,

I was driven to tell my wife, and I was ready to purge everything, go to counseling and never wear another feminine thing again. The real force behind it was indeed a closer intimate honesty with my wife.

She accepts it, with limitations. Very reasonable limitations.

Am I lucky? No. Luck has nothing to do with it.

I've been 100% faithful to my wife. I've been a gentleman, responsible, reliable, loving, listening and caring husband/father. She knows me very well, so while crossdressing was a shock, she sees that I have integrity dressed or not.

Our relationship was able to overcome it because we worked hard at building and maintaining it BEFORE I told her.

Your thoughts go right to the core of the married crossdresser. "Does my wife really love me no matter what?" "Do I really love my wife more than anything?.. more than crossdressing?"

The moment of truth! Is my marriage strong enough to survive telling?

For me, there's no doubt in my mind that I love her more than anything and visa versa. There never was any doubt! Opening my closet, I made myself completely vulnerable to her, it wasn't too hard, I did trust her, after all.

BUT! Some of us don't want to know the answers to those questions! The answer might be scarier than getting caught or going out in public.

Be careful Tammy, even angels fear to tread here...

-Ava

[Anita Mae GG]

Thanks Ava I think you are right. I think in order to be able to tell your SO you need to feel confident enough that they truly love you like you think they do..and you have to trust them. If you fear telling them then there is a component missing there somewhere.

I am not trying to put anyone down ..............simply said is this: If you told me 5 years ago I would be married to a crossdresser I would never have believed you...just because I had that taboo association to it that comes from being uneducated.

When Dave told me about Danielle I was shaken up a bit and afraid of the unknown (I still am afraid of the things we haven't ventured into yet) We talk about things though and we are going through this together one step at a time) BUT that being said....I LOVED him enough to be willing to educate myself (and continue to educate myself) about this and accepted him immediately (before I educated myself) and I did that because I LOVE him and TRUST him and saw that he was the SAME person he was before he told me.

We discussed the deceit part of it and I got to understand his fear and anxiety...........because I love him and trust him. He is the same person to me who happens to have a little something special in his personality. Danielle is Dave and I love both of them.

You have to have trust and love to be able to communicate and have a happy life with your SO.......I wish you all had the confidence to talk openly with your SO's and be 100% happy and honest with each other. She may surprise you and accept ALL of you.

[Sarahgurl371]

Tammy, you make some very good points. I am currently struggling daily with most of the issues you have brought up.

I am 34, been married since 19. Been dressing in some form since I was 6 or 7. Hated myself for it. Never felt right, never fit in. Thought I had found the answer to me dreams in her. Wasn't dressing then, but told her I had. It came back a couple of years into the marraige. I hid it. I knew how she would feel. I again hated myself. All the guilt, fear, anxiety etc.

6 or 7 years ago now, I told her about wearing panties or lingerie. She was all upset, lots of tears, a couple of all nighters, and she said - "if you ever wear a dress I am out of here". What could I do? I love her, almost lost her. So I said nothing. Thought our new found agreement would be enough. It wasn't. I hear all the time that I apparently live CDing more than her. Not true. CDing is just a part of me. I am learning to love me.

Just like you say, I began to not be able to live with myself. Two reasons really. I needed to be honest about myself with her because she deserved the truth, and I needed to be honest with myself as well. And HONEST I have been. I have told her EVERYTHING. That has probably just made matters worse.

So now here we are over two years since then. And I struggle between hurting her or hurting myself (mentally). Apparently we define love differently. I know that this is alot to ask, I have read so much from wive's perspectives. I just wanted to drop the curtain and be me, whatever that is. Your point about if she loved me she would educate herself - apparently people are just plain different. I am just emotionally drained right now, completley lost my thoughts.

So who is better off? Those who hide it, or accept a glimmer of tolerance to be allowed to exist, or those who gamble it all to be themselves. To take the chance that they could find somone similar to yourself.

Look, I have handled this all wrong, I know that. I have apologized, accepted crushing controls on my self expression in an attempt to repent. I have tried to incorporate the "positives" of my "feminine" personality into daily life. I try to lessen her load. When do I get out of jail? I think probably never.

Yeah, what to do. Take a gamble on me. Am I worth it? Or hang in there a little longer. People like you give me hope. But I think you started from a different place. Don't want to hurt her anymore either. Worry that I have scarred her for life. Would she be better off without me?

Your post is pretty much is right where we are. Yes I most certainlly wish to be loved for who I am. I desire the freedom to be me. The right to exist in my own home. I guess I lack the self confidence / acceptance to obtain it. Fear, absolutely. What will everyone think of me? I just want to be me, but am I willing to live a life of lonliness that I feel will most certainlly be the outcome.

Wish I had the answers.

[ashlee chiffon]

"life ain't easy for a boy named Sue!"...whatareyagonnado?
i don't think any of us has the answer..learning to live with our needs and the needs of another are tough enough in a "vanilla" relationship..
i don't blame women for their issues as i, like you, have created a persona of a third person in a relationship of what most women consider as two...We feel that it is all one identity *logical...rational...to us*, but most women fear cd's want to be with guys and that is why they dress...understandible, probably true with a lot but not all, and hard to argue against...the best i have found to do is be on my own until i find another that accepts my dressing and can enjoy the benefits and fun we can have. I think different now that i am older, but still don't understand myself after all these years! i love wormen and their clothes and that is what i feel. It is a fun and greatly enjoyable passion, but quite lonely at times with no one to share it with.Try to make the best of your relationship and hope she can understand and enjoy it with you, because it isn't easy finding another that understands, either. And its lonely, when you are alone and can't share at least a part of it with someone. Good luck and my encouragement to try and make it work out...it'll be worth it!

[HeatherCD]

I agree Tammy!

I talked to my girlfriend about this stuff when we first started dating. It is something that I can't control, it is just there. She was very supportive and understood this whole crazy society we live in.

She told me she has often thought about how ironic it is that a girl can go out with a t-shirt and jeans on(guy type clothing) and no make-up, and go ride four-wheelers in the woods...But it is wrong if guys want to dress in a skirt and heels and go shopping! Why is the world like that??

My point is, communication is very important to any relationship! I'm just lucky to have a SO that understands!

Katie

I second that.. I told my wife when we met. She is accepting and has no real issues with it. If I had waited, she might wonder what else I was hiding from her. I think deep down inside, she is fascinated by the whole idea.