What is the point of a full transition if someone is just going to out themselves?

[Nicole Erin]

I stumbled on some article about richest TG people. My name wasn't on there. HA! Imagine that.
A few of them were hot, passable, young enough to still look good etc.

Even aside that, some TG can even do modeling.

problem is though - once someone figures out or finds out you are TG, they tend to revert to your biological sex in how they see you.
For ugly and semi-passable at best cases like myself, it isn't really that painful if someone misgenders. yeah annoying but one gets used to it. But what about someone who was able to get enough surgeries to hide things, were genetically blessed to begin with and fit society's standard of physical beauty?
Once they decide to put it out there that they were born male, a lot of people are not going to see them in any different light than they would see us less fortunate Tg who don't quite look as good as a 25 year old female athlete.

Wouldn't coming out at that point be throwing it all away?

[Mirya]

I pass really well. For example, I went to a local TG support group a few months ago and met a newcomer for the first time. She is TS too, and was just starting her transition. After the meeting, we talked, and she said that she thought I was a cis woman until I started sharing about my transition. A few months before that, a TS woman who transitioned 20 yrs ago (and passes better than me IMO) said that she thought I was cis also, at first. So, going stealth is not a problem for me. BUT I am choosing not to go full stealth. Why? Let me explain...

My goal in transition is to live an authentic life as my true self - a woman. Unfortunately for me, I was assigned male at birth (AMAB). By the way, please don't say I was born male, because I was born female, with a female brain (which is where my gender identity comes from). Sadly I lived for more than 35+ yrs as a man because I was in deep denial for so long, lying even to myself about my true nature. But now I'm finally free! Free to live an honest, real, and authentic life as my true self. No more hiding, and no more lying about how I feel or who I am.

Now, If I choose to go full stealth, then I have to hide or even lie to others about the first 35+ years of my life. Maybe that would make it easier to form superficial relationships, but that's not what I'm seeking. I want to form deep, meaningful friendships with other people, especially other women. I want to laugh, smile, and cry with other female friends as we do life together. How can I do that in an honest and authentic way if I have to omit or fabricate stories about my past?

The world is changing now. Twenty years ago, TS women had no choice but to go stealth in order to gain acceptance. And from hearing firsthand stories of those TS women, they seem to struggle with forming and keeping close friends. It's because women often share about their past as a way of bonding and becoming closer to each other. To make matters worse, they are sometimes riddled with anxiety due to being discovered. It's almost as if they're trading one life of secrets for another. That's not the way I want to live. Society is much more aware, tolerant, and even accepting of TS women these days, so I don't think it's a matter of survival to go full stealth anymore.

In fact, a number of the TS women that I know are not stealth at all, not even a little bit, and yet they seem to be fully accepted by other women. For example, one of my TS friends was invited to a girls-only private pool party this past summer. Surely she would not have been invited to such an event if the other women saw her as male? And yet she is openly trans. This is just one example, but I know of a number of similar examples, as I have many TS friends in real life who all share the same story. They are fully accepted by other cis women as one of them, and are invited to every women's social event you can think of. Why is that? I believe it's because as TS women, our true gender identity shines through. Other women can tell that we really are women on the inside. That we think and feel as they do. And admittedly, being able to pass helps a lot too. But disclosing our trans status doesn't seem to matter as much, as long as we have first established that we really are like them on the inside (mentally, emotionally, and socially). So I have to disagree with you when you say that "once someone figures out or finds out you are TG, they tend to revert to your biological sex in how they see you. "

I have put a lot of effort into passing 100%, including FFS, voice lessons, and a pretty awesome body (5'7" 125 lbs - I'm proud of it because I worked hard at it I was also lucky to have good genes to begin with. But still, personally, I have no problem with others knowing that I'm TS. While it's unfortunate that I was AMAB, the first 35 years of my life still happened, and they had a part in making me into the woman I am today, for better or for worse. I fully accept those years as a part of me too, warts and all. That doesn't mean that I tell people I'm trans right away though. I won't mention it in an interview (it's not relevant to being able to do the job). I won't mention it when I meet people the first time. Or maybe even the second time, or even the times after that. But if I'm going to become good friends with someone, and hang out with them, and share life with them, you bet I'm going to tell them. Coming out and telling them is not "throwing it all away" as you say. Quite the contrary. It's exactly where I want to be - honest, true, and authentic with the ones I care about the most. Yes, I'm a woman. Yes, I'm trans. No, I don't think other women treat me as a man. And yes, I'm very, very thankful that society has changed enough to allow me to live this way.

[ReineD]

This article?
http://www.therichest.com/expensive-...-in-the-world/


The people on the list had no choice, Erin. They’re all in popular media except Rothblatt & Pritzger, who couldn’t possibly transition quietly due to their position or accomplishments, and wealth. Too many people knew them as male, so they can’t really go anywhere without someone knowing their past. And many of the others got a lot of mileage (and income) precisely because they are TS. Pejic became popular because she was a (then) male who looked like a female, Lepore calls herself the TG "It" Girl, Carrera started out on RuPaul’s Drag Race, Cox plays a TG in Orange is The New Black, and Wurst was on one of the talent shows sporting a full beard.

Bono was already known as Sonny & Cher’s daughter, and Grace is in a punk rock band. They couldn’t transition quietly any more than Jenner. (And why isn’t Jenner on the list).

I should think that if they had not been well known, they might have chosen to transition quietly? Still, it is difficult, if not impossible, to not have the past come out eventually, if a person is still in touch with their family, work associates, and old friends.

[Janelle_C]

Mirya couldn't of said it any better!
I was on a walk with my wife shortly after I had transitioned. She ask who I identified, I said I'm a Trans woman. She said I thought you always just say you're just a woman. I said I am, but I'm also Trans and if I have to hide the fact that I'm Trans then I'm just crawling back into a different closet. And I refuse to ever live in another closet again.

[jentay1367]

If I'm privileged enough to pass that well, I'll out myself (or not) based on the situation,..... where I'm at and whom I'm with. This is my life. I will most probably let new close friends know, but casually, I feel no obligation nor any loss of self respect from, or to others. Ultimately, their opinion of me is none of my business.

[Georgette_USA]

Glad to see others respond, saw this in early morn before bed. No responses yet.

I agree with Mirya and Janelle a lot.

Never was full on stealth, not sure if this is even possible nowadays with the Internet. Most all of my prior 25 years is mostly none existent on-line now.

When I transitioned was mostly stealth but more like just blending in. People at 1st job all knew and they were all very accepting, Family all knew. Was not ashamed to admit if asked but can't recall any asking. Partner and I moved to suburbs, left the TS community, and just grew old as 2 woman in neighborhood.
As Mirya said, the anxiety of being discovered by men in intimate situations really got to me. I retreated from all that, that is my one regret in all this, learned to turn men's attention away. As Janelle said it is like living in a different closet.

Nowadays I am much more open with people. Not sure I like the idea of people asking if Trans, that is not how I want to be identified only, have always just felt I am a woman first. Guess we will never get past that. But it has helped to inform others that we are not weird or freaks.

[Melissa Rose]

To twist the OPs words around a bit, it almost seems like advice to "don't fully transition unless you maintain complete stealth". I know that was not the intent but the overall outcome or impact is roughly the same.

Sometimes you are forced to make a decision whether to out yourself. In my case, if I want a transcript for my undergraduate degree (at a huge Big 10 school), it shows my legal name at the time. I graduated in the 80's when there were only paper records. These records are stored off campus and it takes 4-6 weeks to receive a copy of the original transcript. There is no method to alter my name on the transcript since only a single paper copy exists in the records. If a transcript is required for a job application, I have no choice but to explain why the names do not match. The same goes with my extensive publication record. There is no way to change my name on published papers and books so if I want to include my publications as part of my resume, I also have to explain the name mismatch in the citations. My more recent jobs require DOJ background checks. I have to list any names or aliases I may be known by in order for the background check not to come back with red flags. Again, I have no choice but to provide all of my known names for background checks. Even if you want to remain stealth, you may not have that option unless you want to totally discard a big chunk of your past and that may not be easy to do since there will be glaring holes in your history (or you have to lie about it).

As to outing myself, it is done on a need to know or have to basis. I do not want to but there are times I have to or it is prudent for various reasons. The longer and more extensive your pre-transition history, the more difficult it becomes to keep it a secret. I understand the thought behind the OP's question, but sometimes you just do not have a choice or ability to remain completely stealth.

[Nicole Erin]

I guess i forgot about the whole "past life" issue.
My gender doesnt come up normally in day to day life but I do try to avoid it.

Part of the problem with being open or having the subject come up though -
Those who are open, don;t they get tired of this crap -

So why did you decide to do this? Are you going to have the full surgery? How does your family feel? do you date men or women? What was your old name? Do you go out dressed like this? Do you prefer male or female pronouns?

[grace7777]

I am hoping to start hormones soon, so I am in the beginning of transitioning. If in a few years I should start a new job and nobody suspects I was born male, then I see no reason that I need to correct them. After all the important thing is how well I can do the job.

I would love it if in my everyday life everybody would think of me as just another woman and not a transwomen.

Now if I were to look to date, then I would definitely feel the need to let them know that I am Trans. In this case I do believe in full disclosure.

[KymberlyOct]

I may end up completely changing my mind in the future. In the six short months that I have begun transitioning I have already learned that everything is written in pencil not pen. But as of now I can't imagine ever trying to go totally stealth. Yes I am going to do ffs so it may seem like a contradiction - why do ffs if you don't want to be stealth? Well first I want to at least sort of like the way I look - but also I don't want a sign hanging on my face that I am trans ( like it was this weekend when I flew in girl mode - more about that on a different thread ) but back to the point.

After all of the guts this takes - and the hurdles to jump I am never going to hide it. I may not want to advertise I am trans but I will never go back in the closet. My therapist tells me I need to love myself as I am and that includes being trans and how I end up looking no matter what that is. By making efforts to deny my past IMHO that is going back in the closet and my closet door is closing quickly.

[Georgette_USA]

If in a few years I should start a new job and nobody suspects I was born male, then I see no reason that I need to correct them.

That is what I did after the job where I transitioned. Nobody but the Security people knew my background, and I sure didn't bring it up to anyone. But in the WASH DC area, a lot of overlap in the IT industry, so occasionally I would meet someone that new of me before.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

The reason to transition is get rid of your gender dysphoria..

Although each transition has a different set of tradeoffs for the transitioner, i find it hugely helpful to look back at 2006-2008 as i fell apart.. i look at my notes which make me seem like a crazy person... and i was!!

but transition cured that part of it....it didnt get rid of the shame... i dont revel in my silken smooth legs or golden locks flowing down my bare shoulder... i just wake up and deal with all the Bullcrap...

thats why i did it... and i think thats why most did it...

after that, its all personal preference and dealing with the genetic lottery of your appearance... ts women that dont pass have a really different situation than those that do.....almost not comparable..


if you like to measure success however, its not appearance that matters...

[SarahSerene]

Love this thread! Particularly your points Mirya and those that followed.

One lighthearted comment - in my day (male) work world, I actually interact frequently with a Pritzker-owned company, so I know the name. Little did I know one of the Pritzker's was transgendered! I take a lot of encouragement from that.

Finally, Kymberly I look forward to hearing how your flying experience went. This is something on my near term goals. I know there are some great threads on this in the past but as I said, I look forward to hearing about your recent experience.

[GBJoker]

My answer would greatly depend on the situation.

[Angela Campbell]

For most of my life I am completely stealth. I didn't really have many friends before I transitioned so no problems there. I have changed my birth certificate and as many other things but It isn't always possible to change everything.

I work as an instructor at a college teaching the trade I have worked at for 30+ years. I have a degree from almost 30 years ago. The college I attended no longer exists so changing my name on a diploma isn't possible. The transcripts I needed to qualify for my job are only available from the state department of education. They cannot change a name only give copies of what they have. I had to have them so I must explain the name difference.

I did not offer any explanation other than I had my name changed a few years ago and provided the court documents for that. Of course anyone who really looks at that information in my file can deduce a gender change if they think about it. I changed my name from Michael to Angela. I didn't make a big deal about it, and no one else did either. It has never been discussed. My social security card, drivers license and birth certificate have my current name and gender on them.

So stealth is variable. I live this way and offer no explanations and never discuss it. If someone asked me point blank I wouldn't deny it but I would never bring it up either. But I work with several hundred students and staff everyday and I am just a woman to all of them. I would never advertise that I have a medical history and face enough discrimination just being a woman and see no need for aditional discrimination for having transitioned. It simply isn't anyone elses business.

I planned my transition very methodically. I had no intention of ever being "trans" in my life. It was very awkward going through the process, but the entire purpose was to live as a woman. So I did the hormones, had the surgeries, changed the documentation, learned the social skills, and transitioned completely. The whole idea was to not be "trans". In the end I have been very successful at that goal. I transitioned on the job, then eventually left that for another and never looked back.

[jentay1367]

I'm on the same path you took Angela. So far...so good. I don't think I've ever been happier or healthier. Looking at your awesome success gives me great hope! Lisa

[PretzelGirl]

Why did I do it? Because I am a woman and I had to live as me. I am a woman who is a mom, an engineer, a grandmother, a volunteer, a sister, transgender, old, intelligent..... Are you starting to see what I am doing? Being transgender is just a part of me. I live it that way and live it openly. I don't like to say "Transgender Woman" as it objectifies me as I am all about being transgender and instead prefer "Woman who is transgender". I talk about it a ton when I do my advocacy. I hardly talk about it at work and in my side business unless someone wants to catch up on how I am doing. So I am treated like a woman everywhere. I have woman friends and do things with them. Because I am open and up front and then just be myself, they can see it and it becomes easy to accept. You can be open and just live your life and be accepted for who you are.

[I Am Paula]

I worked in a business that brought me face to face with hundreds, and hundreds of people. All of them knew me before, during, and after transition. Pretty much couldn't get much more out in the open. People I have met since transition don't need to know, but I also don't care if they figure it out.

[Rianna Humble]

My transition story went viral although it is dropping off now (Google only found 67,600 references to me in the first 0.4 seconds today) so there was absolutely no chance of me going stealth

There is no way in heck that I could have let this put me off of a full transition (only limited by my health issues).

[Georgette_USA]

My google gives only 179 results. Only 2 are from before, the High Schools I attended in the 60s.

I am lucky as most current info is after my transition. Many work and collector societies.

But still was never full on stealth. Only changed my 1st/mid names.

[Kate T]

Mirya and Janelle have just about nailed it. We are women. Specifically transwomen. In the same way some women are African american, some women are short, some women are mothers and some are not. We aren't lesser or inferior or better, we are just different. Telling someone, anyone, that you are a transwoman, isn't throwing it away, it is owning it and being proud.

[Nicole Erin]

I work as an instructor at a college teaching the trade I have worked at for 30+ years. I have a degree from almost 30 years ago. The college I attended no longer exists so changing my name on a diploma isn't possible. The transcripts I needed to qualify for my job are only available from the state department of education. They cannot change a name only give copies of what they have. I had to have them so I must explain the name difference.

I would figure an employer would be more concerned with recent experience rather than where someone went to college or the transcripts from decades ago.

[Melissa Rose]

Some potential employers just want proof to back up your claim of attending and/or graduating college. It is one way to temper some of the embellishment that goes on with resumes. I am in the process of job hunting and 1/4-1/3 of the potential employers want transcripts with most being happy with unofficial transcripts. The salary for some positions is dependent on your amount of post-high school education so again proof is needed so you can be compensated accordingly. Dealing with the wrong name on an old transcript has been a constant battle.

I would love to go completely stealth but my past does not make it easy.

[Lorileah]

Wouldn't coming out at that point be throwing it all away?

In today's world someone can find out where you ate lunch if they tried hard enough. OK, I'm old...hope to get older. When I do I know that somewhere along the line someone who knew me before is going to say something. My idea, do it before to minimize any damage they may want to cause. I read something yesterday that said TSs should move away and start over after they transition. Throw away your whole life before I guess. Well honestly, while I still have some issues with my dad and a few others I knew before...my life didn't suck. It was damn good actually. I made a lot of friends. Some knew me while I transitioned. Yeah they have problems on occasion with pronouns but they knew me "when".

I don't care if someone wants to fade away and start over. That's their business. But in my world, I think the more we are noted, the more people behind us can transition with less hassle. But like I said, I'm old. My life is on the downhill slide. If I were 20 I might want to be anonymous when looking to start my life. I praise the people in the article for being "out". If I had that fame and fortune, I would be a sign carrying, bullhorn toting advocate.

addendum: I wrote an article that was published while I was in college that is still being cited in academia

[Kate T]

What Lori said

Occasionally, just occasionally, I do think "it would be sort of nice to just move away and start again where no one knows my past". And then I get someone like a client today who is as ocker as they come, pig hunting truck driving real aussie bloke, but he brings his dog in for me to fix because he trusts me todo the best job possible and he doesn't give a shit if I'm male or female. Or another client who is a real rugby league type (think gridiron but without the padding), very muscly really masculine guy, who I have known for years, and I have absolutely no doubt in the world that if anyone criticised me personally he would absolutely flatten them. Or the people we play tennis with and have done for over 15 years who we muck about with making fun of some of the process with jokes like "Have you got any balls (with the double meaning of tennis balls being obvious) there Kate?" to which I will quite readily reply "nope, quite happy without them thanks". I'm not coming out of one closet to jump in to another one thank you, people respect me and see me as Kate, yes I'm female, yes I'm trans. Get over it.

Kate