Re-ran the experiment

[Helen_Highwater]

I posted a little while ago about walking through a busy store while in drab and actively watching to see who actually looked at me. Answer very few.
So today dressed to blend enfemme I did the same. In truth I'd have to say more people made eye contact but not that many more. Outside in the busy pedestrian area most people seemed oblivious to me. A few read me as we walked towards each other but the vast majority just didn't see me or if they did as I was dressed to blend saw something that walked like a female, dressed like a female, acted like a female so no need to look any further; subconscious said female.
I know this sort of thing has been posted before but it's worth emphasising. Don't dress like a hooker, dress for the time and place and being out and about soon becomes second nature.

[Emily Ann Brown]

Great advice...don't invite attention and you won"t get it. GGs have the same problem. Em

[Stephanie47]

The issue really is whether someone is going to act negatively towards a man wearing a dress or at least emulating a woman. I think the setting also contributes towards whether or not people are going to take a prolonged look. A busy store is somewhat of a safe area. I think most people presume nothing bad is going to happen. Try the same experiment in different parts of the store, like the children clothing section or the ladies room. I bet there will be closer scrutiny. Violate a person's comfort zone and there will be a different reaction.

[Tracii G]

I agree Helen.
There will always be those CDers that don't grasp the concept and never go out and experience this for themselves and those that dress like a hooker anyway and wonder why people stare at them.

[Rachael Leigh]

So true Helen dress for the venue and if you feel the need to dress to the nines then find someplace it's appropriate and
all will go well

[Helen_Highwater]

The issue really is whether someone is going to act negatively towards a man wearing a dress or at least emulating a woman. I think the setting also contributes towards whether or not people are going to take a prolonged look. A busy store is somewhat of a safe area. I think most people presume nothing bad is going to happen. Try the same experiment in different parts of the store, like the children clothing section or the ladies room. I bet there will be closer scrutiny. Violate a person's comfort zone and there will be a different reaction.

Stephanie,

You're right of course where you are does make a difference and undoubtedly being in the ladies raises the stakes. However I think we should not loose sight of the fact that for the vast majority of situations sometimes it's too easy to overthink the what if's. On the day in question I'd driven to a town a few miles away from where I was staying and used the Park and Ride service to take me into the town centre.

So got on the bus, the driver was very polite. Sat with other passengers and didn't get any bad vibes. Went around the town centre in and out of goodness knows how many shops. Bought some new knickers in M&S (3 for 2), talked to the SA who served me, then followed it with a drink and a sandwich in the cafe. 2 of the serving girls chatted to me before I sat down to eat. Now I will admit to being a little uneasy about using the ladies as the store was very busy but summoned up a bit of spine and walked in to find an empty stall right in front of me. Did what I needed to do, listened to gauge if there was anyone coming or going, sounded quiet, opened the door to find 8-10 GG's waiting for a stall to become free. So yes at that point if honest my nerve deserted me and I walk straight out with out washing my hands choosing to rely on hand sanitiser instead.

As I wasn't familiar with the park and ride service initially on the way back I got on the wrong bus along with others. We quickly realised our mistake, the driver told us where to catch the correct bus so off we went. When it came I got on followed by a GG who was also having issues with the bus service and she started a conversation with me. We talked about the bus service, problems she'd had changing an item of clothing and her forthcoming holiday to Canada to see her daughter.

So that was probably 4 hours out and about, no issues, no real dramas and in truth several very positive interactions with the muggles. Oh and I did walk though the children's clothing section in M&S and no-one batted an eye.

[Judith96a]

Stephanie is right about 'setting'. I'm guessing that you were in a market town somewhere in 'Middle England'. Bathroom bills aren't an issue and people tend to 'live and let live'.
I had a very similar experience wandering around Buckingham a few weeks back. Got a few quizzical looks in the street but nothing other than positive reactions from anyone that I actually interacted with. Likewise Birmingham just over a week ago. Took the shuttle bus from a hotel back to the NEC and got chatting to driver and GG fellow passenger regarding the two minute silence. How I was dressed just wasn't an issue.

As regards the 'ladies'... Driving up to Milton Keynes a few weeks back I really had to go! Stopped off at one of the motorway service areas and headed for the 'ladies' (no way was I going into the 'gents' in a skirt!). As I walked towards the entrance of the 'ladies' I was met by GG (mid thirties I would guess) coming out. She definitely 'clocked' me, smiled and went on her way! No pitchforks, no security, nothing. When I exited my stall there were two or three women at the basins washing their hands, touching up lipstick etc. The one closest to me glanced around and, again, just smiled, mouthed "hello" and finished what she was doing. No drama.

I wonder what the two women who smiled at me were thinking. I suspect that they were mildly amused.

[Ashley090]

Sorry for off-topic, but where you find so much courage to do all you just wrote here? Those trips you had, amazing! All i had are two night drives and i was afraid of everything. Hell, go in middle of night out is something i fear, let alone go out in broad daylight and interact with ppl! You all have my respect!!

[MissJoanne]

I think this sums it up nicely. It's all about taking a "common-sense approach" to things. I dress like a woman of 59 who likes to be smart and fashionable would. I don't dress like someone 30 years younger. I have shorter, easy-care hairstyles. I wear low heels. And as to bathroom visits, I always remember two pieces of advice given to me by one of us: do what you're there for, and remember to have your feet pointing the right way!

[sometimes_miss]

Outside in the busy pedestrian area most people seemed oblivious to me. A few read me as we walked towards each other but the vast majority just didn't see me or if they did as I was dressed to blend saw something that walked like a female, dressed like a female, acted like a female so no need to look any further; subconscious said female.

When we don't know what others are thinking, we will assign to them whatever thoughts we wish to. So with that in mind, I can clearly state that I pass everywhere, and all the odd looks I may get are simply jealousy. Makes perfect sense, right?

[Helen_Highwater]

Sorry for off-topic, but where you find so much courage to do all you just wrote here? Those trips you had, amazing! All i had are two night drives and i was afraid of everything. Hell, go in middle of night out is something i fear, let alone go out in broad daylight and interact with ppl! You all have my respect!!

Ashley,

As I said above it's easy to over think the what if's. As it's been said many times, dress to blend, wear what most of the GG's are wearing for that time and place, don't go OTT on the makeup especially around the eyes and just act normally, like you belong. If I walk around a shopping mall for an hour I'll be read loads of times but to date nothing untoward has taken place. And for every one person that reads me dozens will just pass me by. Think about it, how many people do you look at when walking through a busy shop. You hardly pay any attention to the vast majority and likewise the vast majority aren't paying any attention to you.

So while out one day I stopped for a drink in a store's cafe. Having chosen a sandwich and drink from the display cabinet went to pay and chatted to the server on the till. Went to get a glass and from behind me heard, "That's a man!". I'd probably been in the cafe several minutes before an observant 18-20 year old spotted me and pointed me out to her 2 friends. So what did I do? Found a seat and sat down and got on with eating. If others read me they didn't show it. Some might be mildly amused, some just won't care. Whichever nothing untoward happened.

As with most things, the more you do the easier it gets. A day or two before I'd been out shopping for a few hours and needed to pop into a supermarket. Left my handbag in the car and just took my purse as I needed just a pack of tissues. As I walked in I suddenly realised that I hadn't thought twice about just entering the store. It was simply something I did.

My advice to you would be to find a support group and enlist the help of a more experience gurl to go out with.

[Teresa]

Helen,
After reading Stephanie's comment it occurred to me that very few people may not react. The TS scene has opened up and become far more public so that people are more likely to think you are TS, I feel to many people CDers are a stay at home closeted group, they don't have a need to go out shopping and be seen . The ones that are likely to react are younger ones and the few permanent bigots .

Looking at it in this way I can see why members may have encountered people stopping and telling them how good they look and even telling them how brave they are , if that's the case then we should accept it as a supporting gesture and thank them kindly. I personally would not be upset if I received kind words because they thought I was TS, I would hate to do damage to others who are in that situation.

Just to add a comment about other replies, OK what we wear does have some bearing but it's also the way we act, some say go out and own it, that may not be totally true but certainly go out with the thought you belong there, acting furtive, glancing round at other looks attracts attention.
OK the other way to look at it is go out as if you are in drab, don't overdo the walk, just be you , most GGs don't walk like catwalk models !

[Becky Blue]

One has to be careful that the reaction we think we see is actually being clocked. For example yesterday I walked past a GG who was taller than me (I am about 5 11) I most definitely gave her a second look, as she was rather tall. Had she been a TG she would have been certain that I had clocked her, but the reality was i just looked a bit harder as she was tall.

I am of the belief that if we are dressed age/venue/time of day and give off no obvious male signals like a moustache most people do not look hard or long enough to notice us.

A few months ago I went shopping at a major shopping centre with a GG (its my Avatar pic) I dressed to blend in and I know i did, based on some slightly surprised SAs when i asked them a question (I have to work on my male voice). I tried on clothes and happily walked around must have walked past many hundreds of people and did not notice anyone paying me even the slightest attention. I comfortably used the ladies restroom - its not an issue in Australia.

[ellbee]

I don't care what anyone says.

I still believe a hidden camera would capture more looks & reactions from others.

Anyone willing to give that a try & report their findings?

[HelenR2]

“We would worry less about what others think of us if we realized how seldom they do.”
― Ethel Barrett

[Ashley090]

Thanks for advice! Definetly agreed on "not to stand out". What girl you will notice sooner? Girl in super short skirt, big boobs and over-knee high heel boots or random girl in plain jeans and sneakers with avarage body? That firts one is answer. That is problem for me since Ash likes goth style and that stands out o lot for everyday outfit
When I thinking about go out then i just thinks I ll get read 0,0023 second after open house door and ppl point at me bcs they have x-ray vision and knows what I hide Fear is strong what is interested, when in male mode I am very confident and "i dont give s**t about what you think" kind of person, but when in female mode when Ashley take a stick, damn, she is so shy and have zero confidence, trying to have lowest profile as possible.
When all you interact with ppl you use your male voice or you practice femine voice?
To more on-topic, I did a "test" bit long ago. Go shopping while wear skinny female jeans. I guess it went okay. One guy had little weird look at me, then while waiting for checkout, gg standing behind me looks like she is kind of studying my pants trying to figure something out.
That thing with camera would be great One in front, one at back.

[deebra]

Ashley this goes along with your last three lines. I posted a long time ago "wonder if the woman behind me while standing in line at the checkout read me or wondered are those girl jeans he is wearing? If so is he wearing panties too ??????" My jeans were pretty tight fem jeans with embellishments on the rear pockets and I also was wearing two inch heel girl boots. What she didn't know was I was wearing panties and lace top thigh high hose. Nothing was said and I didn't detect any looks. In a way it would be nice to not be noticed buy I also would have liked to have been noticed which sends the message I have the right to wear what I want and no designer should make the public think otherwise. If she did read me, what was she thinking; is he gay, it is perfectly O.K., they fit his body well, I like it, he might be really cool to be with. And BTW that is what I'll be wearing to several stores in a few minutes. As I shopped in the store I believe no one read me.

Now for the camera, on a previous post a wife was concerned her CD husband while out dressed would be clocked, embarrassed or harmed. I suggested she follow him to the mall, enter a ways behind him and video him and any reactions on her cell phone. Then they could meet in the food court and discuss it. If all went well it would ease her mind when he went out.

[Becky Blue]

Sorry for off-topic, but where you find so much courage to do all you just wrote here? Those trips you had, amazing! All i had are two night drives and i was afraid of everything. Hell, go in middle of night out is something i fear, let alone go out in broad daylight and interact with ppl! You all have my respect!!

Ashley, not for one moment criticising you for your genuine feelings, but speaking for myself I don't think I had any courage to go out, it was just something I had to do and I loved every second of it. Possibly one day you will feel that need to go out and then the fear aspect will be overcome.

[Helen_Highwater]

gg standing behind me looks like she is kind of studying my pants trying to figure something out.

Ashley,

Perhaps the GG was doing what a load of us do as red bloodied males and just checking out a nice ass? Why should it be assumed that GG's don't have the same desires and aspirations as an male? Sorry to tell you this but you became a sex object!! Doubt my call? Go to a hen party with male strippers and watch the reactions....... not that I ever have.......

As for the voice. Don't over think it. All I tend to do is soften mine and use phases that GG's would use. Be empathetic. Engage with those you're talking to and just let the conversation flow naturally. Trying to carry off a femme voice takes loads of practice and unless you really, and I mean REALLY pass, you're wasting your time. When I interact with SA's I know they know. That doesn't stop the interaction taking place and in most cases it's the SA's who initiate the conversation. They're curious and why shouldn't they be.

[Dana44]

I was in jeggings, Hair down blue blouse and did no shave this morning as we were on the run all day. WE went to Walmart to get some things for dinner tomorrow. very crowded and only as I was heading for the checkout line and a girl say to the other: is that a man or a woman. But they kept on walking and did not look back.
I told my SO that they should have asked me? I would have told them Both., I be's a gender fluid individual.

[Krisi]

I still believe a hidden camera would capture more looks & reactions from others.

Anyone willing to give that a try & report their findings?

That would be the best way other than having someone interview people after you have walked by.

It wouldn't be hard at all to conceal small cameras in a purse, one facing forward and one facing backward. Sound would be a little more difficult but it's doable.

BTW: There's a current thread about the danger of concealed cameras and loss of privacy. I suppose one's opinion depends on which side of the camera you are on.

[susan54]

There really is almost complete lack of reaction out there if you avoid the sort of trouble spots women would avoid. I sometimes ask if I have been somewhere like an event and 9/10 there has been no reaction or comment and the other 1/10 they made favourable comments about my figure or legs or outfit. Only once in a hotel I had been staying in the receptionist said a man had complained about allowing this and his wife had told him to shut up. There really is a lot of support out there and part of that is reflected in not reacting.

[docrobbysherry]

I don't care what anyone says.

I still believe a hidden camera would capture more looks & reactions from others.

Anyone willing to give that a try & report their findings?

As u wish, Laura----
P1080722 (640x600).jpg
Altho I'm not dressed like a "hooker", I'm also not dressed in loose sloppy, granny things. (I'm 70+). And, it was Fremont Street in Vegas. So, I was far from dressed outrageously there.

I think this photo illustrates perfectly how much attention u get when u don't pass and can't blend.

While I admire the courage of those that go out regularly to vanilla venues dressed? It's NOT my thing! I don't need the constant stress and hightened attention to everyone around me when out shopping/eating. I prefer to relax and ignore everyone and have them ignore me. Which means going in drab.

I prefer to dress the way I like with no worries or stress. Which I can do at T friendly clubs and events. Or, at home. Where I can happily dress in looks that would make a hooker blush!

[Jane G]

6' 6" in modest 2" heels. Never worked for me, jealousy hurts sometimes.

Thanks for the feed back though.

Doc you are without doubt a legend, if only I had your ability to just get out there.