Called Sir Twice while out today

[Abbey11]

Nicely put Phylis

[Jenni Yumiko]

You would think that all levels of the gender scale would be accepted here. Some of you clamor for "acceptance" but are mean to someone who isn't as far "left or right" on the scale as you? Complain about how person a,b or c doesn't accept you for who you are, but not accepting who someone else may be who isn't "normal" is just as bad if not worse then all the other ones out there.
Your thought to written word may not be what people are seeing or understanding, Billy, but I for one applaud your journey on discovering who you are, whomever that may be.

[Lucy23]

I too got the impression that the only way to find a place would be that I go "fully femme". As if the way it is now - just a man in a dress - is just a phase and at some point in the future I'll come around. There are many faces of crossdressing as there are members here. So why the act as if the only and proper way to go about crossdressing is to totally present as a woman. That is too strict a demand in my opinion.

I for one thought that originally Billy was happy about being called "sir" and he shared the story just because of that. In fact, I must say that I admire Billy for having the courage and "balls" for being so honest with himself and venture out dressed like that and face the world head on. I know I couldn't do that, at least now. It seems that Billy just wants to find himself, is honest about it and asks questions to help him. I haven't seen him writing about any inappropriate actions when out in the world. So please, could we just simply trying to understand first and then voice our opinions even if we disagree with one another?

[Billy]

Thank all of you for your support.
Lucy, I think you would find it acceptable and much less work. You will simply be yourself in different attire.

[Louise DK]

I dont think it hurts the comunity that some crossdressers go out, clearly presenting as a man in a dress. Im from Denmark in northern europe, and in Viborg, a city 30 miles from where I live, there lives a man they call Kjole Ole. Now kjole is the danish word for a dress, and Ole is his name. He dresses only in womans clothes, and have done so for decades. He is widely accepted in Viborg. In fact once many years ago he was thrown out of a local B&O boutique, because he walked in to their shop, looking for a new TV set, wearing a dress. It caused so much harm with the local pupulation, that the CEO of B&O had to make a public appollogy to Ole.
So I dont think what Billy does is any worse or any better than going out fully made up, wich is what most here do. I think as long as you dont dress like a two dollar hooker, and confirm the image of a transvestite, the muggles have in their heads, you Are only doing the comunity good, by being out there and being seen.

[immindy]

After reading all the interesting responses here I guess I have to comment I do not think Billy is a troll and I believe he was actually wanting to be called Sir , that was his whole point . But what else would people call him other then maybe some derogatory slur ? People here seem to have different reasons for wanting to wear woman's clothing and many , including Billy , may not be sure why . This forum is a safe place to explore ones feelings about such things , is it not ?
When I first discovered this forum ( in 2007 ) I was not completely sure about myself but have come to realize that I am a trans woman who wears woman's clothes because it helps me express who I am and feel better about myself . Personally it is hard for me to relate to someone who considers themselves a "man" who just likes to wear woman's clothes , for the feel, or whatever ? I do also have a hard time understanding why someone would want to present as a man in woman's clothing in public.
I also feel that someone who chooses to wear woman's clothes , as a man in public, does not help those of us who are trans woman and just trying to be accepted as a woman in public. Society tends to see such a person as strange and maybe a bit creepy ? I do think when one makes an effort to "blend " and present as a woman it helps our acceptance . This is my opinion, however, and I do wish Billy the best as he explores and learns about himself .

[Billy]

Is it hard to understand why a man would like to wear women's clothing in private?

[Lucy23]

Personally it is hard for me to relate to someone who considers themselves a "man" who just likes to wear woman's clothes, for the feel, or whatever? I do also have a hard time understanding why someone would want to present as a man in woman's clothing in public.

I'll offer my opinion on this part. Currently I'm reading a book on women's fashion, particularly on developing one's style. There is a chapter devoted to "stealing" from other's wardrobe, especially from men in their lives. Why would a woman do that? Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but from the book I got the impression because she wants to express herself, or some part of herself.

So why would I want to present as a man in woman's clothing? Well, the further I've been thinking about it, I guess it's because I too want to express something inside me and women's clothing does it best. For some reason there are times I want to look cute and wearing a flared skirt with ballet flats does it best for me. You could put it that it makes me feel in certain way. All the while I want to remain a man who is comfortable with being a man. Just as woman would don her man's blazer to achieve a certain look she desires.

[immindy]

Lucy , maybe you do have a feminine aspect you need to express but not to the point where you consider yourself a trans woman as I do ? I suspect many here , who consider themselves male cross dressers feel as you do ?

[Taylor186]

We had a thread recently where the question was (I'm paraphrasing here) when crossdressed do you feel like a man or a woman. Many, many of us, including me, responded in that thread, yes I still feel like a man when crossdressed. So Billy's journey resonates much more with me than that of a trans woman. After all a trans woman wearing women's clothing is not crossdressing at all.

During the first forty years of my crossdressing journey I never attempted to blend or pass. I just wore the things that made me happy. Being closeted most of that time helped, of course. When I first started going out go out I felt the need to make a complete presentation and the tri-ess like organization I joined required it (no "half and halfs" allowed). But Billy's threads have made me now wonder why I still feel that need.

I do nibble around the edges, as someone put it in another earlier thread, by wearing leggings and tights to yoga and the health club while in 100% guy mode. And, I'm sure I'd be sir'ed at these places, and would want and expect it, even though I am wearing women's clothes from the waist down.

You have to look no further than much loved comedian, actor and crossdresser Eddie Izzard to know that with style and confidence, you do not have to make a complete blending/passing transformation to be yourself when out in public.

[Lucy23]

Lucy , maybe you do have a feminine aspect you need to express but not to the point where you consider yourself a trans woman as I do ? I suspect many here , who consider themselves male cross dressers feel as you do ?

You could put it that way. There's this moment that comes to my mind, not related to crossdressing, at least directly. After seeing my new flat, two female friends told me independently that the place looks like as if a woman had decorated it. I guess I have a rather heightened sense of aesthetics for a man when it comes to small details, fashion etc. Compared to my male friends, I really put a lot of effort into how things look.

Obviously, I really can't speak for others; that's up to them to answer. However, I too would like to know their own take on the matter.

[Becky Blue]

Is it hard to understand why a man would like to wear women's clothing in private?

Billy, i think you just hit the nail on the head with that quote. There are many people in our world who do not see themselves as men who like to put on a dress. Whilst I do not see myself as a woman trapped in a man's body I am most definitely not a man who wants to put on a dress either.

I will dress in private when I can as it makes me feel so good on so many levels. I do not feel like a 'normal' male, at times I have almost overwhelming urges to dress and be as much of a woman as I can. When you realise that the 'T Community' is a spectrum and its not black and white the sooner you may start finding yourself.

Your question above is based on your current feelings that you are a man who wants to dress in some woman's clothes so you can go out. Given you clearly keep many signs of your 'malehood' when you go out one could ask you "It is hard to understand why a man would dress in woman's clothes and go out with a 5 day beard shadow?"

[Billy]

I have no problem with a man liking to wear women's clothing in private thus I have no problem with a man liking to wear women's clothing in public. I have worn intimate women's apparel on and off since being a youngster and never had a desire to emulate or feel like a woman. In this huge diverse world I am confident that I am not the only person like that. I know others on this forum that have stated that they feel the same in fact in post 60 Taylor speaks for himself. I believe that I do understand it is not black and white.

[Becky Blue]

So then why did you ask the question?

[Billy]

Because if you can understand why a man would want to wear panties or underdress or wear women's clothing in private, you should be able to understand that they would want to wear it in public for the same reason.

[Becky Blue]

Billy with all due respect, look where you are posting its Crossdressers.com all of us here are either CD/TS/TG/Other or are connected to someone who is a CD/TS/TG/Other. Are you trying to convince yourself?

[Billy]

Not at all. There is an awful lot of pushback and criticism in regards to going out in public wearing women's clothing without a female makeover.

[Tracii G]

Its a little more complex than that Billy.
All of it depends on what drives that male person to dress in female clothes.
What drives you may not be what drives someone else.
I'm a female in a male body so for me wearing womens clothing makes me feel normal and matches my head with my body so to speak.
For you I have no idea what drives your desire to wear womens clothes.
You are a crossdresser and I am TG so that is one difference.

[Becky Blue]

You did not say that in your question! you simply said going out and I would point out there is a slight difference between not being fully made up and having a 5 or 6 day beard growth. Lots of women go out with no makeup etc. No women ever go out with a weeks growth of beard.

I would guess that the reason you were called Sir twice was specific and was a sign of disapproval.

[KimberlyJean]

I will most undoubtedly regret this post.

Just so this is on topic, for me being called sir while out would be an insult because I want to blend in and be female.

Now Billy, what I have seen since you started posting on this forum, not just this tread but in every one you start they become contentious. This is just me observing the forum and not judging. If you want to be a bearded man in a dress more power to you, however do not push your agenda onto me. There are several posts in this thread inferring that you are the one who is being picked on, but I have gotten the impression from all of your posts that you do not accept those of us who are transgender or are different than you. I even contemplated not coming to the forum any more because of the arguing that you have inspired.

What I am getting at is we accept everyone, but you need to accept that we are not all just men in dresses. I truly have gender dsyphoria but it is not severe enough for me to pursue a transition. I cannot just do what ever I like because life has taken me on a path where I have commitments. Like Lorileih said multiple times it is not black and white.

Just my two cents because I don't like the fighting in my happy place.

[Tracii G]

Well said KJ
Me personally I'm getting tired of tying to explain things.
No matter what anyone says he tries to twist it around and make the other poster the bad person.
You try to help and he doesn't listen and is not willing to either.
Just my take.

[Billy]

KimberlyJean,
I am so sorry that you feel that way. If you knew me personally you would not feel that way. I have no issue with what anyone does. I only know what I am doing and all my posts are in regards to issues that I am coming to terms with. I would treat you with the utmost courtesy if I was in your presence and do not think I have disrespected any person on this forum. If you or anyone else thinks that have, I am truly sorry.

[suzanne]

Thanks for the story, Billy. I call the reaction you received "Not a big deal" and it's the direction I hope society in general is going. Because it's clothes, and you were appropriately dressed for the situation. How could it be a problem?

[AllieSF]

Kimberly, I do not think that Billy is trying to question if those of us who go out dressed completely with all accessories, wig, clean shaven, etc. should or not. I think that she is trying to make the point that she sees nothing wrong with what she does. I see that it becomes contentious when others who agree that Billy has the right to do what she wants state their opinion that Billy should not go out in the public as she does (dress like you want but keep it home). Some may not like how she may word some of her posts. I have seen her be very mature in her posts and reacting that same way to the many disparaging posts of others.

She has been very prolific in the short time she has been here. I have seen that with many new members here over the years as they finally found an outlet for this side of themselves. They arrive here and want to discuss everything. Some write well and some do not. I agree with you that we should all accept everyone, and agree that Billy is part of that "we". I have defended Billy in several posts in this and other threads just because I do not see that acceptance from some of our members here. We do not have to like her presentation style (I would not present like that), but for us to say that she should not go out while we who present completely en femme can is not acceptance nor acceptable on a support site like this.

I do not think that we are fighting at all. We are in a discussion about Billy's presentation style when out. This site has all kinds of threads from the silly, to simple, to more complicated ones. This is a more complicated one and will bring up differing and stronger opinions. When kept civil we have the opportunity to hear both sides of discussion. That can help all of us to better understand our own point of view and hopefully help us modify or change it over time to the more correct one. Stay around Kimberly, take a break when necessary, or avoid these deeper discussions when it gets too deep. Your opinions matter too.

[Leslie Mary S]

Billy I would suggest that you not try it in a southern small town unless you are looking for a lot of trouble. The first time yo MIGHT get away with it, but your luck will quickly run out.
I talk from experience.