the hate, the fear, the lack of understanding...

[ginapoodle]

All,

Back from a week in Las Vegas with friends. These are good friends, known for quite a while. Very intelligent, lots of connections on many levels. Of course, they do not know about Gina, my femme self. Out and about in Vegas we went to Fremont street. There upon we saw a M to F crossdresser, perhaps not "presenting" with a lot of style, but mingling. The commentary from my male friend was a torrent of hate, fear and lack of understanding. Then came the derogatory jokes. And he persisted. It got old.

I did not react. I can only change my own thoughts and emotions, nobody else. But, it was painful to hear. The female friend, his wife, whom I have known since age 5 is more open, and accepting. She made some mild pushback comments.

Male friend also insisted on talking conservative politics, specifically the bathroom bills, etc and how he thinks all young females will be predated by M to F crossdressers and T people. I listen, and yet I do not judge, yet I disagree.

Having the experience of being dressed and about as Gina in public gives different perspective. Yes, I have endured the glares and fear. But, I have also experienced support, positive comments and acceptance. Same using F bathrooms. All this in Portland, OR, but not my home of Houston, TX.

Church sermon today by our male gay pastor was about "transitions" and how new growth requires the death of the old. My thoughts went to the costs of my current gender journey so far (mainly with my unaccepting wife). I also thought, how would this church (that is very gay friendly, and F to M friendly, but unaware of M to F gender spectrum) would react if Gina came in. The disruption would be large by my many friends. Some would accept, some would applaud, some would not react much, and some would never speak to me again. My wife would be mortified and fearful of the word getting out to her friends and family.

Stepping back, it is very mentally interesting. Yet, it is emotionally painful for me to stay stuck in my current mode (closeted, after a period ten years ago of pushing the boundaries pretty hard, then backing down).

Anyway, I just needed to get my thoughts off my chest. This is the only place I can do that. However, I may discuss the above with our female pastor whom I have shared Gina with in some discussions, and even a picture. So far, engagement has been limited. But, my point will be "our church still does not accept all" violating the very open culture and fundamental beliefs. We all have work to do.

Thanks for reading. Comments welcome of course.

[Alice B]

It hurts to have a "friend" speak that way. You should have gone to Las Vegas for a week during DLV. CVould have dressed 7/24 and be surronded with those that care and have gone to events where you are accepted as a cross dresser. Basicly every where in town.

[Rogina B]

"Your viewpoint" is from the closet,don't forget. Your church may be accepting to Transpeople but have never experienced anyone and it won't be you anytime soon. I think that you could have opposed your friend's anti trans comments without "outing" yourself. Perhaps this is what is really bothering you.

[Lana Mae]

Sorry but your "friend" and I would have gone head to head! I will not stand for any bashing of a group, handicapped, mentally retarded, females, gays, etc. Your friend is a pompous ass! Intelligent, I think not! Sorry, I am ranting but I would not put up with it! Even if I was not a CD, I would not tolerate such hate and bigotry! Hugs Lana Mae

[Teresa]

Gina,
Having friends for so long should be close, maybe you can't come out to them and make defensive comments because of your DADT situation.

I sometimes wonder if it was considered an illness we might be more open about it . Suppression can lead to mental or physical problems .

I've pushed hard in the last year or two, it has paid off but I still have some way to go , the more people that know the less these problems arise, I haven't lost any friends in fact I've probably made more especially female ones.

I have to say I'm open minded what the church thinks or the congregation, in the thirty years of photographing weddings I have met great clergy and some very unhelpful sarcastic ones, some intentionally making my job more difficult, and the congregation has it's fair share of hypocrites . I am standing up more to this sort of reaction we have to defend ourselves if we are to win greater support. People can be bigots through ignorance so we should be prepared to educate them. I recently posted a thread on this subject and the outcome went well.

[Leslie Mary S]

I will have to say that in many ways I am in the same boat as Lanna Mae. Unfortunately I am a slow thinker/talker so I would tend stay away from a direct 1 on 1 conflict.
With a computer in front of me and allowed to think I do better.

[Tracii G]

I have to ask what was the point of mentioning you have a gay pastor?
Most gay people I know don't understand CDers or trans people and tend to feel the same as the general public.
At least in my gay little circle of friends its that way.
I think Rogina B makes a great point.
You could could of said many things without outing yourself. Its your fear of just the thought of being known as a CDer that is bothering you IMO.
You could have said "hey be nice" or "we don't need to be mean and hateful to others".
Or the old " look live and let live, what they do is none of your business".

[Micki_Finn]

That's why I'm really picky about my friends. II don't need your friendship if you're dumb enough to think that some rapist somewhere is going "DAMN, I was gonna rape a girl in the bathrooms but it's illegal for me to go in there now. Shucks"

[Tracii G]

Micki I agree pick your friends wisely.
I can't tell you how many friends I have quit talking to over comments that were anti trans,gay and the like.
Gina just hasn't gotten to the point of weeding out the negative friends is my guess.

[alwayshave]

Gina, I have some very old friends that hold opinions counter to my own. I will push back when they cross a line. Usually, if you can make someone think, they are less likely to make stupid comments in the future.

[Aunt Kelly]

I did not react. I can only change my own thoughts and emotions, nobody else.

Respectfully, but vigorously, I disagree. If everyone thought as you do the LGBT community (to name but one such group) would not be where it is today. Minds change, but seldom do they do so without help. You had an opportunity to help a friend overcome a lifetime of fear and ignorance. I am not saying that it would have been easy. It might have cost you a friendship, or more, simply by pointing out to your friend why he is so wrong. You don't have to out yourself to do that, but you do have to stand up for everyone in the community, (which does include you, BTW), and challenge the BS that has been sold to people like your friend.

More than once, I have been on the receiving end of a "correction" like that, not on this particular issue, but close enough. It was embarrassing and made me angry at the person who called me out on what I had said. In the long run though, it made me rethink my views. It most certainly did help me to "change my own thoughts and emotions". It made me a better person.

As for your church, why do you think it is that this church is FtM friendly? Certainly it wasn't always that way, just like it probably wasn't always gay friendly. Somebody changed that.

Maybe change is not worth the cost, in your view, and make no mistake, I am not judging your decisions. You are the only one who can decide what your relationships are worth. But I most certainly am noting that change will not come about by itself.

A quote from Paulo Coelho seems particularly apropos here:
“The world is changed by your example, not by your opinion.”
Again, I don't mean to suggest that you need to out yourself as an "example", but just maybe by setting an example, in standing up to fear and ignorance and the hatred they so often engender, you make it safer for the next person to do so. Or your example makes it just safe enough for that person who was on the edge of coming out to finally do so. All of our actions matter. Be the change you want to see.

[sometimes_miss]

First, disclaimer, I'm deep in the closet.

I think that you could have opposed your friend's anti trans comments without "outing" yourself. .

I do that often, but it doesn't seem to change anything. People have strongly held beliefs, and it seems like it throws a wrench in their life that they aren't willing to deal with, so they just hold on even stronger to their originally held views. Most don't like change, especially if THEY are the ones who will have to change.

I sometimes wonder if it was considered an illness we might be more open about it

It WAS considered an illness, and we were treated even worse when that was the case. Just read any discussion forums and see the number of people who use the term 'tard' (referring to someone who is retarded) being used as an insult. Any type of mental problem makes the worst of them treat us like broken people. Of course, it's USUALLY a less educated person doing that, but I come across quite a few who with post grad degrees on hardforum and rennlist who hate anyone who isn't perfectly straight, and have no qualms about letting everyone know it. These are folks who look down on everyone else as if they were inferior to some degree, even their friends. Many are of the sort who really believe in survival of only the fittest, and that taking advantage of someone is a normal behavior. I'm waiting patiently until those who's heads are stuck firmly up their posterior get diagnosed as the horrible persons that they are, with some sort of official term that describes their hatred of others who's only 'offense' is being different.

Most gay people I know don't understand CDers or trans people and tend to feel the same as the general public. At least in my gay little circle of friends its that way.

Most people don't know why they are the way they are, it all too often seems that they don't want to know. They see anyone other than themselves who is substantially different in some way, as defective. I have gay acquaintances too, all but one of which believe that crossdressers are just in denial and should 'try being gay'. Why? Because to them, that's 'normal'.

[ginapoodle]

Many excellent points, much thanks to all.

I ride my own ride in motorcycle-speak.

We were sharing a big condo-type room, so keeping conflict reasonable was crucial.

Alcohol was involved (male friend out of control) on evening with biggest issues--hence I never argue with drunks.

Next summer we will see them again, and I will likely make a measured response.

Interesting on most gays have low knowledge of gender. Very interesting, and likely true.

F to M in our congregation are fairly well represented. In all, M expression is much more tolerated than M to F, at least in this part of Texas..

C'est la Vie. I will go on. My role at this point in life is not gender warrior though.

Oh and if I weeded out every friend with different views, I would have less than a handful left. Diversity is strength.

Thanks again.

[Rogina B]

Ginapoodle,When and if you are finally discovered to be a different person than "these friends" know you as, you will understand that they are not your friends. Perhaps you could have spoken up.

[Maria 60]

Gina we are not yet out of the woods, there's still a lot of ground to cover. There will always be the old school mentality out there. I thought if I ever felt that I wanted to tell someone, it was going to be my sister inlaw until one day when the bathroom issue came up and her reaction was "it's not right, it's so wrong and I would not except this from my husband or my sons, it's sick". That hurt, the one person I thought I could have asked for support ended up being my biggest enemy. My wife excepts me to a curtain level, she would rather see me in the closet, but lately I have been going on some drives. She knows how much this makes me happy so she incourages me to go, but she believes if I get outted she is probably strong enough to deal with it but worries I can't and believes I will get sick or even hurt myself.
My family loves dirty laundry, all Italian do and I know what they are saying now about anyone who falls out of what they believe is normal, that's my family so what are strangers supposed to say then.
When the washroom issue came up, I really seen true colours from friends and co-workers, I'm not one who is judgemental I believe what ever makes a person happy they should do it. But some people had some cruel and bad things to say and makes a person wonder if we can ever change them.
When I was younger we all knew one of my cousins was gay and we treated him like we didn't know, except one of our cousin who wouldn't stop bullying him and this went on for years. Years later my cousin matured and felt bad about the way he treated him and went to apologize to him. I couldn't believe it but I found out recently that his oldest daughter is gay. Wow, take that bully, I love when it comes around and bites you in the ass.
I'll bet you wish your friends would get some of that, I know I would and I don't even know them.

[Aunt Kelly]

Ah, the addition of alcohol to the scenario does change the picture. It's always a challenge, arguing with drunks. Reason is right out the window, leaving not much but emotion. With that in mind, I'd say your choice to stay mum was the right one, Gina. Just the same, Rogina may be right. Those you consider friends may be less so were they to know the real you. Maybe it's a friendship worth keeping, maybe not. I couldn't know, but if it were me and a friend worth keeping, I'd be finding a way to bring some light to him or her. But like I said, you're in a much better position to judge the worth, and the possible efficacy of such an effort. Good luck to you.

Hugs,


Kelly Marie

[Tracii G]

Gina its your choice to do nothing but remember you get out of life what you put in.
Things will never get better if we don't stand up for each other.
I understand you are in the closet but that doesn't mean you have to put up with an A hole.

[IleneD]

Gina,

Great story, and an outstanding example of the dilemma of 'coming out'.
There's a strong inner part of me, and apparently with you too, that wants to be so honest with myself. I absolutely love my feminine, crossdressing self. Like you, I wish the world would applaud me, comfort me, encourage me and support me.
I've wrestled with who, how and when to share "Ilene" with those about me. The pure part of me want to share it all with everyone and not give a damn. I'm reminded, often, how we don't live our lives exclusively for ourselves. We have ties and relationships that mean something to us. You may have a long held professional or career relationships you value, and with people who value you.
Don't devalue those gifts. The esteem you've earned in life, your reputation (personal and professional) as you've cultivated it are important. In a way, YES, you do owe other people something. We don't live in a vacuum.
For example, I was a career military officer and achieved some measure of rank and honor. I held command and had many men & women serve under me; people I trained, fought with, spent a good deal of my adult life with. There's very few of those ex-military contacts - "my men" - who would completely appreciate Ilene. Some would be erudite and understanding but most would likely be angered by their commander in a dress. Some would be absolutely devastated. Frankly, I owe those men the honor of my memory and reputation. I'm not ashamed of who or what I am, and I'm not ashamed of Ilene. It would simply serve no useful purpose to burst everyone's bubble.
This is why I remain guarded about whom I share "Ilene". Not everyone needs to know, and I'm quite comfortable with that.
If you have an old friend with a newly discovered sense of bigotry, be patient and make a mental note to yourself about it.

Be at peace. You acted wisely, and don't be ashamed either of NOT speaking out in the open or living still partially in the closet. It's the world we live in. Just enjoy.

[Becky Blue]

Interesting story Gina thanks for sharing, when I hear stories such as yours I always wonder why your friend has such strong negative views on the cd you saw? Why does he carry such fear and hatred?

[ginapoodle]

Becky,

I wonder the same questions. Why such negative energy? He is extremely intelligent (Princeton grad), and otherwise we share much in common (scientific and business background) and hobbies. I have no real answers.

I choose to accept my femme self. I can only change my own attitudes and reactions and emotions. I love being Gina, and that will never change.

Thank you.

[Tracii G]

Just because someone is intelligent and has a degree or went to an Ivy League school doesn't mean they don't harbor hate towards people that are different.
I would say if you were to speak up and tell him that he is being rather bigoted toward the CD person it could help him to expel some of the hate he is harboring.
He could be trying to hide the fact he is a CD or is into CD's by sowing hatred toward the CD and he doesn't want you to know.The saying he does protest too much may come into play here.
Ask him what is he so scared of its just a CD and not bothering anyone.
Its possible he was attracted to a CD in a bar but when he figured it out it was a man dressed as a female he was embarrassed and disgusted with himself.
There is something deep down inside him and if you were to find it you could help him overcome his hatred.

[Glenda]

I believe that the biggest obstacle in gaining acceptance from others is our own fear that we may not be accepted by others. We are afraid of what "may happen" if our friends ever find out about our "dirty little secret" but truth be told, we won't know what will happen until they do discover this side of us. I did not discover that I was a crossdresser until I was 45. All of my friends knew me as kind, courteous, supportive, competitive, truthful..... I was able to joke with others and also able to take a joke without taking offense. When I started crossdressing, I would get everything I needed for the weekend and stay home and thoroughly enjoy being Glenda. When the weekend was over I was back to being Glen and headed back to work and socializing afterward. One weekend two friends arrived from out of town and called to let me know that they were in town and coming down my street. Gulp!!!!!

They knew I was at home because they called my home phone. I hadn't seen them in 3 years. I was totally dressed with make-up, nail polish and a wig. I couldn't tell them not to stop by because I really wanted to see them.......just not like this. However, I told them to stop by but that they may be surprised when I opened the door. They were surprised but they came in. We had a great evening that lasted long into the night. However, they told 2 friends, who told 2 friends, etc., so it was no longer my secret. I embraced who I am and did not hide any longer. All of these many years later, I haven't lost any friends and many that I know are proud that I am accepted by so many. It makes them all feel good about themselves and the others that we socialize with.

[IleneD]

Glenda, dear.
All I can say is ..... you got lucky with your 2 friends.
You know it could have ended much worse.
bless you heart, and your friends.

[Stacy Darling]

I've read your post and think there may be a lack of understanding by some others!

Possibly "A Little bit of Vitriol"

You sound to me to be a nice person living in a world in which we sort of don't fit in to!

Push the Boundaries Babe!

Stacy!

[Sandin Meknickers]

I wouldn't take it personally. These kind of idiots get sucked in by more convincing girls all the time and are equally offensive in how they go about fancying them.

Some of us are out there fighitng the good fight and living the real life. Those of us sneaking about in duality have little to no come back - our own secrets and fear leave us arguing without the conviction needed to challenge extreme views. Illustrating how we imagine a CD might feel cannot be recieved the same as a CD explaining their condition.