Tell the Truth?

[Tina_gm]

Gendermutt.... ouch! Well said and brutally honest. Those were her thoughts exactly. Being a cross dresser is extremely difficult and tormenting yet sometimes delightful and life-giving. Trying to find the balance is something I don't know I will ever find. The tension between my mind and body sometimes is absolutely overwhelming. I'm a very strong person but it is easy to understand the suicide rate for people like us. I just have to hold on to see what's coming next. Oh God I hurt so bad.
Tears of pain and torment,
Lisa

Dear Lisa. I think truth and honesty has to start with ourselves before we can accomplish it with others. I was not and hope you don't take what I wrote as a personal put down. I don't speak from expertise, just my own experience making somewhat similar mistakes. I made a big mess of Halloween a couple of years ago. Not because of not telling her, but down deep I knew I was pushing things way too far. The disaster wasn't from her lack of acceptance, she tried, but it was too much for too long and my selfishness cost me. I knew deep down it was too much. So as we are only human we can only learn and move on. I feel very much quite often as you do. Torn, conflicted, hurting inside for the gender issues i have from birth i never wished for. Hang in there.

[Lisa Roberts]

Oh absolutely no ill will Gendermutt. Very wise words and sincerity appreciated!! Still weepy but feeling a little better. Thanks to all!!
Lace and Smiles,
Lisa

[Becky Blue]

To some extent this highlights one of the problems with DADT situations - Don't Tell what, where is the line?

Lisa, basically your wife was ok with you keeping it in house, your interpretation of 'in house' was going out far away from the house, thus the discord. I can see why she was upset in this particular case, but it raises the bigger question of who sets the rules?

[Tina_gm]

Ultimately we all set our own rules. Perhaps we may base them on our partners wishes or demands on being together. When I read of the sometimes strong differences of our partners who say don't do X or else, well, that is their choice as much as it is ours. Our lives effect their lives. It may not be fair to us to limit what we desire to do or how to dress, but equally so of them. It isn't any more fair to them should we choose to dress and live as a woman when they married a man. So, one way or another, a hard choice or compromise will need to be made. None of it is easy for us or them.

Some partners for whatever reason can go with it, many can't, for whatever reason. To those that can t or really just choose not to, their choice or ability is equal to our own. Sometimes it just may come down to parting ways. Separating and divorce happens now more than 50% of the time, for so many reasons, and ours is one of them.

[Christy Diane]

I have to agree with some of the other lady's here. Like other wives my wife would not want me to be discovered to be a creossdresser in our small conservative community. So I don't go out in during the day when I'm home (I have been for a few late night drives).
I have, ventured out a few times when I've been away from home by myself. These opurtinities are few and far between, but I'm OK with that. The few times I have ventured forth I have not disclosed with my wife. I know it would only upset her.

[Lisa Roberts]

Stephanie47
"I ascribe to the belief that much of this resistance by wives is the belief society will look at her and say "What's wrong with her? Why does she stay with a man who wears women's clothing? There has to be something wrong with her!"

Steph- SPOT ON!
I'm certain that is what my wife thinks even though she denies this in part. She doesn't like to be embarrassed.
Lace and Smiles,
Lisa

[Teresa]

Lisa,
Members like myself who have fought against the odds and manged to step out the door I feel owe something to those in your situation. I hope to stay with the forum when I finally get my freedom to support others . Being embarrassed, feeling shame and guilt are words that shouldn't apply to our situation . By being out we are hopefully helping others with the acceptance level with society. Sometime ago I asked the question about being out and over 60% were out, partially out or truly wanted to be, very few truly wanted to remain in the closet, and of those DADT was the deciding factor .

Again I suggest a social group so you can strike a compromise with your wife, they do offer a safe environment to meet other CDers, once your wife has accepted they aren't just for hooking up with other guys .

[rian]

I think there should be a limit to tell your wife because she is scared that you might turn into a woman at the end and stop being her husband ...this idea haunts all wives once they know you went out side ,,,as if the bird has left the cage ,,so she feels that she lost control of your crossdressing .....do not tell everything ...so it will not be a lie ....

[Lisa Roberts]

Christy- PM me please.

[Tina_gm]

Lisa,
Members like myself who have fought against the odds and manged to step out the door I feel owe something to those in your situation. I hope to stay with the forum when I finally get my freedom to support others . Being embarrassed, feeling shame and guilt are words that shouldn't apply to our situation . By being out we are hopefully helping others with the acceptance level with society. Sometime ago I asked the question about being out and over 60% were out, partially out or truly wanted to be, very few truly wanted to remain in the closet, and of those DADT was the deciding factor .

Again I suggest a social group so you can strike a compromise with your wife, they do offer a safe environment to meet other CDers, once your wife has accepted they aren't just for hooking up with other guys .

Teresa, one thing I often feel is that there is a somewhat myopic view of the relationship dynamic. Also, that you, and many others in a similar situation as yours ( a common one) do not understand how a DADT type of arrangement CAN work. It doesn't and cannot work in your circumstance. Your entire identity is at least other than male. Nothing wrong with this. It is a reason many of us are here. But, not everyone here has the identity issues you and others in a similar situation do. Some may have solid footing on both sides of the gender fence. So for those who can live a life and feel contentment with a male identity, even if it is only part of their identity, a DADT arrangement is a possibility with success.

Also, what I often see from many members here, is how they do not ever consider the impact of their partner. 1st, the most basic element, a heterosexual woman who marries or commits to what she thought was a man one day finds out he really isn't a he, inside at least. Love can conquer a lot, but just as it can't change our gender issues, it can't change sexuality either. That is what many here are basically asking of their wives. They can't change anymore than we can. In some cases, a partner can go with it. It doesn't make them better, just unique in their ability to do so, while not changing their sexuality, as one simply can't. It is one good reason we see so few GG members on this site who are totally ok with their partners gender issues and can walk with their partner regardless of gender path. We do see more GG members here who struggle with it, doing their best to accept it as they can. That is the norm.

I always am in agreement that it isn't fair to us to be limited, but equally unfair to partners to try to be or expected to be what they are not as well. Teresa, your impending separation is likely the right path for both you and your wife. Neither of you can provide the needs of the other. That is not a crime on either of you, it just is what it is.

I really do not like the ideas and the language of freedom, or lack there of. You and anyone on here have all the freedom to be and live as you are and desire to. It just comes with consequences for most who are in a situation similar as yours. That is life. We see this outside of transgender issues as well, when a partner takes a different path in life, makes such major changes that the other partner just cannot. I am not just talking sexuality here, but of career paths and interests and any other major life change that may occur. It often has the tendency to pull a relationship apart.

While we are free to take on society and rise above whatever feelings of embarrassment, guilt, shame etc etc, that is our choice, hide in the closet or make the big leap out of it. But when we do make that leap, our partners no longer have any choice in the matter. They now have to confront those issues whether they wish to or not. The issues of a partner of a transgender person in relation to embarrassment, guilt, shame and whatever other facets of society are not exactly the same as ours. They still confront these issues, but at a bit of a different angle and perspective. In a way it is easier for us to say this is who we are we have no choice but to be who we are. But for our partners, they are by staying with us making a choice, and by making that choice do get looked upon somewhat differently than we do.

Just like how we see the younger generation having greater acceptance and being out much earlier in life, and people getting to know them pretty much from an early age as to where they only really know them as transgender, what of people of our generations, who have only known us to be men for decades. And our wives to only know us as men for perhaps as long? Again, the perspective changes. It is one thing for someone to accept a female partner who chooses a transgender partner from the beginning and everyone knows the couple in that dynamic. But going from the typical husband/wife or male/female partner dynamic to the transgender dynamic after so many years and with the far less acceptance of our generation, well, we simply are asking too much for most. It is not even so much they don't want to, they can't. They can't because they weren't brought up in that world. They can't because of their own sexuality of who they are. They can't because after decades of living with the man they thought they were living with, the man turns out not to be a man.

To those who choose to limit their dressing or lifestyle, that's their choice. I believe ultimately it is not about those of us who do make that choice loving our partners more, or being tougher or braver or whatever else, in the end it really comes down to our own gender needs. There are some who martyr themselves, or never feel worthy of being their true selves. That isn't a prison set up by their wife or partner, but of their own prison. No freedom is being taken from them, they simply are not allowing themselves to be true to themselves. To the others, the choices made to limit are simply not strong enough to warrant such a change. And there is no crime regardless of where any of us are in the spectrum. We are no better or worse regardless if we are just taking a break now and then from the masculine/feminine world, or if we identify as opposite the gender we were born as.

[Lisa Roberts]

Dang, gendermutt!!! Very detailed and moving entry. You have an exceptional command of the English language. Truly a pleasure to have your thoughts on this topic. Thank you!!
Lace and Smiles
Lisa

[kimdl93]

'.....it is not about those of us who do make that choice loving our partners more, or being tougher or braver or whatever else, in the end it really comes down to our own gender needs. There are some who martyr themselves, or never feel worthy of being their true selves. That isn't a prison set up by their wife or partner, but of their own prison. No freedom is being taken from them, they simply are not allowing themselves to be true to themselves. To the others, the choices made to limit are simply not strong enough to warrant such a change. And there is no crime regardless of where any of us are in the spectrum. We are no better or worse regardless if we are just taking a break now and then from the masculine/feminine world, or if we identify as opposite the gender we were born as."

Struggle as I may with either defining or accepting myself, in the end, this is about me. My ex's didn't sign on for this....well both knew I was "different" but neither they nor I knew what that meant. That was true for most of my adult life and both marriages. Even today, I'm not totally sure what being transgendered means.

Perhaps, when we are all capable of discussing gender without prejudice, we may begin to know ourselves and each other better!

[Teresa]

Gendermutt,
I guess that situation has just evolved. Sometime ago Reine talked about the pendulum swing when it finally comes to rest is where your balance is . In my case it's outside my wife's comfort zone. Yes she is Ok about it some days but others she tries to suggest obstacles she thinks I haven't thought of , that's the result of DADT in my case . It's left so much unsaid , if she knew all the facts she would probably want a divorce instead . Sometime ago I said I had to find ways to work round her, she has no idea how out I am and who knows, yes she is trying to cling onto the man she knew , it's becoming stifling. We know this has to happen, maybe there are more issues than just the CDing you talk about love and intimacy possibly holding things together , much of that faded even before my CDing became the issue it is now . I don't know if she would feel better knowing our separation was through me having affairs rather than thinking I want to present more as a woman, at least I'm still there for her and the family at the moment , I haven't betrayed them in that way .

When you ask a CDer honestly want they want , most will reply to be out freely to dress as they choose without DADT or social pressures , any constraint on that is destructive in some way to the CDer, that then impacts on the rest of the family in some way . The forum is always full of stories along those lines , most CDers suffer in some way, the forum is here to help them more than their partners .

[Allsteamedup]

It may surprise readers to know that women have constraints in dressing (appearance), too so the notion that the cder can go out unrestrained is either folly or another fantasy.

Gendermutt's posting is superb. It should be saved at the top of the messages here.

Women who are uneasy about partners going out of the home dressed are not trying to seek control at all. If you begin saying you want to wear a dress which eventually escalates to all the props for a passable appearance in your home, that is an entirely different situation to going out of the home. The one exhibits an appearance in the home, a place of safety, and the other going out to meet people. When you step out you are in deception mode, trying to convince any passer-by that you are a woman, but you are not. You get a huge thrill from this deception.

The question the woman asks herself is 'why does he want to go out to meet people dressed as a woman?' The answer is not obvious to her. Perhaps you have spent hours trying to convince her you are not gay, but now you frequent gay bars. You chat to sales assistants, go for a coffee. She cannot see the point. If you then try to explain how it makes you feel, that is cause for another round of anxiety on her part. There is more to this than you are admitting. Every wife who has accompanied her partner dressed has run into the meeting someone you know, no matter how far from home. The people you mix with largely you would not choose to introduce to your wife. The safety issue is always there, too.

Again, trying to dismiss a spouses anxiety as tiresome is disrespectful. You caused this situation so you have to deal with it.

[Teresa]

Allsteamedup,
I'm sorry you have made some mistakes in your assumptions.
You are assuming the wrong reasons for calling them props and go out to deceive. You have not grasped what CDers with GD/AGP suffer with , it not so much the thrill but an anxiety when we go out , most of us know we will not pass but it doesn't stop the motivation driving from within.

I do not frequent gay bars and don't intend to but then that comment is being unfair to the gay community , as if they are committing a serious crime .

The other important point you overlook is many wives / partners accompany their CDing partners to social meetings or shopping, my wife has never been excluded from accompanying me , the GGs always stress she is welcome to come along and chat at the meetings.

Sorry we did not cause this situation , our brains were wired this way at birth, we had no choice in the matter . Please understand most of us try very hard to keep it private , we know it's not behaviour expected from a man , that takes a very long time to come to terms with on occasions . We are not criminals just because we have to lie because society imposes restriction on how they expect a man to behave , we are not bad people, in fact given full acceptance we are very thoughtful caring people because of the female trait.

Many of a woman's anxieties are based on irrational fears , sadly imposed DADT doesn't allow us the opportunity to fully explain it My wife has come to realise the mistakes she's made now but it's too late the damage is done . It has taken two to come to this situation !

[Tina_gm]

The fears that the man they married is one day to become or is in the process of becoming a woman they don't know? There's nothing irrational about this at all.

This site is basically a constant repitition of that very narrative. Just because we don't all fully transition doesn't mean the man she fell in love with doesn't change or reveal their true self to someone other than who she fell in love with. Why does any of us find fault for them to grasp onto that man she fell in love with, hold onto him, try desperately to keep that man....

It's NOT the transgenderism women have such a hard time with, it's how we deal or have dealt with it. It's the deception, the lies, the ever changing dynamic. It's not knowing when and where we will end up. The I don't know or didn't know answer does them no good.

Any woman who sticks around after it becomes known pretty much understands it isn't a choice of who we are.

Dadt.... isn't for everyone. But it is ok for some. Or maybe just not to have the entire marriage revolve around transgender issues.

I'm always somewhat surprised at how little understanding many on here who dress as and emulate women, wish to one yet have so little understanding of them.

Lastly, again, we can't change, yet they can? And even for the few who can, we hold this expectation on them all to be able to, and also the selfish notion that they need to do all of the compromising, living a lifestyle alien and uncomfortable, because it's not fair for us to have to.....

[Teresa]

Gendermutt,

I know we've had conversations on this issue before, sometimes heated but the obvious point is we are on different playing fields with totally different players . We will never agree on certain issues because our CDing is based on different needs . I've needed the freedom to find myself, they aren't selfish motives , struggling through acceptance and DADT means I can now be honest with myself and my wife . She will soon be free to build her life on the issues she can deal with and not have the niggling problems my lifestyle brings. I will have the way clear to truly come to terms with my needs and build my lifestyle as I chose . We are lucky our children are on board and understand but maybe not totally accept our new lifestyles. Yes it does also bring to an end the deception and lies that grow out of DADT situations. Much of the time the situation will be centered on TG issues until they can be put on the table and dealt with in an adult way. We are adult married couples not children, the problem with DADT is it sometimes leave us being treated like children, and perhaps naughty ones that need to be punished . CDing may start in our childhood but by the time we come to terms with it we are adults. OK sometime we do need to grow up with it and stop trying to be too girly and sissy, that is another element wives may despair over.

I hope others reading this will realise why it's best eventually to come out to your children, I always stress that it's still better to wait until they are adults so they can deal with the situation in an adult way .

[Tina_gm]

I'd like to state for the record 1st that I am not in a total dadt arrangement. What mine is, is more of a don't ask don't show. Basically, I just don't dread in her presence and don't tall about my times when I dress in any detail. It is assumed by my wife that whenever I am home and she is not i am dressing. It's left at that and she will be courteous to sometimes provide me times to do so, and always let's me know when she is on her way back. She has even asked me if I've had enough "alone time". I'd it makes it easier for her to say that, then why push it.

I don't st all disagree with what you are doing now, you probably should have been doing this long ago. Only going by the description of the state of your marriage, but had that been me I would have been gone long ago. That could be looked upon as either more selfish or less depending on perspective.

What I disagree with, or better phrased counter with us that dadt or a version of it similar such as my arrangement can work, given the right circumstances and that it is done respectively by both parties.

I also disagree with your assessments of women's acceptance in general. I feel you do not always consider the impacts it has on YOUR wife, or of others. Not all wives will be impacted the same. Some do have a unique ability to roll with it. That expectation cannot be placed on all women.

I have said this about my wife, she does not have nearly the ability to accept what some other wives on here or members wives do, but she also has come as far and in some cases farther than others considering where she started with all this. I do often have to remind myself of this. I think it would be wise for all if us in the relationship dynamic to consider where their wives came from. How long before knowing, or knowing all. Her personal social surroundings, her family, her faith
When all of those components are not in favor if not fervently against trans, just being with us still, even as just crossdressers is like climbing mt Everest in heels.

[Teresa]

Gendermutt,
I see the dressing at home slightly differently , I was never comfortable with it because my wife knew I was waiting for her to leave, that is not a nice feeling knowing your partner feels like that. The other point is being frightened to walk back through her own front door unless she rings first , alienating your partner from her own home isn't a good situation , that can lead to falsely feeling ashamed and guilty for wanting to dress.

In my case we had DADT arrangements but the goal posts moved from day to day, I tried to be consistent but she couldn't because she didn't accept it at all .
Trying to come to terms with it finally meant counselling, but as she didn't want to know what was discussed I again hit a brick wall. I had no way of moving on in attempt to come to terms with it . I guess the inevitable happened when I finally went out dressed to a social group, I finally felt comfortable being out and knew what my inner needs were.

Most of the rest of this story is in Loved Ones section . I don't agree with your comment about my assessment of women's feelings, I'm having to accept separation because I do care, we can't keep going through this destructive cycle . She can't roll with it so it's the only solution, neither of us can change .

[Tina_gm]

I never said it isnrfrom a lack of caring or love. From my perspective, it pervades this board of members who don't understand or misunderstand their partners struggles, fears, anger. I've felt for about as long as I've read your posts regarding your marriage it would/should end.

The norm is when it comes to our partners we will likely have to make hard choices one way or another. Dadt, or just a lot of limitation or to just go and do and be exactly how it is we desire if not need to be. In the end it really just comes down to what brings any of us the most peace, tranquility or just plain livability.

This situation 1st starts with us not being fully open and honest. To them or even perhaps ourselves. I'm guilty of both. Life has so many frustrations and I see this as mine. I'm truly blessed in many ways. Gender is right now my biggest issue in terms of frustration, but everyone has their own somehow. I honestly can't say I would make the exact choices I make if it weren't for the other facets of my life being what they are to me.

[sometimes_miss]

Lisa, there are lies of omission and commission.

We really have to stop holding that up. Not telling someone something is not lying. Otherwise, you could make the case that everyone is lying to everyone all the time, because we don't tell them absolutely everything we know. After all, if we know that our brother moved a paper clip two inches when he was three, and don't tell our SO about that, then we're assumed to be lying?

Ridiculous. This is a fallacy that we have to stop accusing people of, because it's becoming an easy target to paint on someone's back whenever you find out something you don't like that they haven't told you, and then yell, LIAR! LIAR! at them as if they've committed some horrible crime. NO ONE tells anyone else everything they know. NO ONE. It's simply impossible; you'd have to read back every memory you have of your life to them, and even then, if you forgot something, they could simply say you were hiding it from them.

Not telling someone something that they had not asked about, is NOT lying. If they ask you directly, and you leave out information pertaining to what they want to know, then THAT would be lying by omission. But not volunteering information outright is NOT lying.

How many of our wives tell us the intimate details of their sex life with previous lovers? Well, seems anyone who doesn't, is then lying to us, because they're not telling us things we MAY want to know. Shouldn't they tell us absolutely everything, so we get to decide what's important? By implying that we're expected to disclose every single bit of our lives, as, not knowing exactly what she needs or would want to know, and then declaring that we are all liars, is completely absurd, and we have to stop doing it.

[Tina_gm]

Not every omission is a lie, but when done in quantity, they give a purposeful false impression or presentation of who we are or what we are really doing. It's not technically lying, but it can and sometimes does create a falsehood, usually done purposely