Question to Tri Ess members

[Crisack]

I hope I'm posting this in the right place, If not sorry =(

I just had a question to the members of Tri Ess in Washington. Well anyone in the group if it's the same nationwide. I've wanted to join to set up some type of in person support with people that understand. What I don't understand, though, is why you have to be heterosexual to be a voting member? Is Tri Ess more of a meat market and not a support group? Are you considered a second class member if they know your sexual preference or are you booted if you tell anyone you're attracted to the same sex? Maybe I'm paranoid because I'm in a dress but the last thing I need is another guy in a dress telling me that I'm weird. Not really sure why anyone there would be worried about who I'm sleeping with unless they are trying to sleep with me but the by laws on the website seem pretty specific.

So the question, is it worth looking into this group or is it a hostile enviornment to anyone that's not the same?

Some insight would be appreciated before I contact them.

[Lauren Mitchell]

First, Tri-Ess is a support/social organization for heterosexual Crossdressers, their spouses and immediate family members.

The big thing that has spurned a lot of confusion is where do Transsexuals, Bi-Sexuals, and Homosexuals fit in. Are they excluded from membership? If it is found out that they are not hetero, will the bedroom police kick them out?

What the rules do stipulate is that only a heterosexual Crossdresser or their spouse may hold elected office and carry a vote. For many, that really is not too much of a concern. I do not know of any national regulations that say a Transsexual (as an example) cannot be the chair of a committee. Some chapters may have regulations stating the opposite. I cannot say who does or does not. But national is firm on the heterosexual voting/holding office policy.

You have to remember, that the chapters are all made up of humans. Some may be more, dare I say, ‘militant’ in their views to others that are not hetero CD, while other may not be. I would be willing to guess that close to 99% are open to those who are not Crossdressers. But again, I truly have no idea. I know that CDM by me welcomes those that are not hetero CD, as well as my chapter, Nu Sigma Tau.

I am also certain that in many chapters, there are a few who have had a fling or two with someone of the same genetic sex.. But since there is no bedroom police, who knows for certain? And then again, it really is no ones business who you sleep with other than yourself. That’s my opinion.

If there is no chapter near you, try and consider starting one. If you contact Gerri of the Chapter Development Committee, I am positive that she will be more than happy to help guide you. She has been an ally of mine since I decided to try and get a chapter going here on Long Island. It is a tough go and there are many roadblocks ahead, but it is worth it.

I hope this answers some of your questions. If you wish, please feel free to email me at Lauren.Mitchell@yahoo.com.

Love
Lauren Mitchell
Founder and Chairperson, Nu Sigma Tau

[Crisack]

Thanks for your reply Lauren =)

Your first sentence actually answered it well enough for me. I went back to the site and reread it. Makes more sense reading it with open eyes, lol. Obviously more hetero CDs around and I suppose it's nice to have a support group to deal with your specific issues. Wouldn't want to scare away any SO either.

Just curious though, what do you all think about those that CD and are not hetero?

[Lauren Mitchell]

I cannot speak for anyone else, but as for myself, I feel that we all have our own walks in life one way or another. I accept each person one person at a time and for who they are, and not for who they sleep with.

[talkwithmelissa]

We are all in the same boat as far as crossdressing. We shouldn't be looking down on each other because of their sexual preference. I am not speaking on behalf of Tri-Ess when I say the following. Tri-Ess is a support group that offers an inviting atmosphere to CDers and their SO. Some SOs are having a hard enough time dealing with their spouse's dressing, they don't need to go to a meeting and have to witness other aspects of the Transgender community. There are other groups that are more open like Renaissance that you would feel more comfortable at. You can be yourself there and not worry if you are offending an SO.

[Cathy Anderson]

What I've found is that different Tri-Ess chapters vary a lot in this.
For example, at the Chicago chapter meetings I attended, gays, bi, TS were all welcome and not considered second-class.

Once I mentioned to Virginia Prince, founder of Tri-Ess, that I was concerned that I might have "gay" feelings. She just looked at me and said, "so what?"

Cathy

[Butterfly Bill]

Is it still the case that " bearded ladies and the like are not how we present ourselves."?

And would there be meetings where I would be forbidden to appear en femme?

I'm sorry, but with all their security, it seems that Tri-Ess is just a bigger closet. I know that I would not necessarily need support (get enough of that out in the world), but would like to be able to offer what i could, but from reading their literature I get the feeling that my kind would not be welcome. (And the nearest chapter wouild be in Fayeteville, Arkansas, 90 miles away.)

[Kayla Smith]

I am a member of the Denver chapter (TSK) and from what I know there is not any discrimation to anyone that would like to join.

I would recommend going to www.tri-ess.org and reading the polices under the General column.

As far as my own personal experience since(Oct 05) joining the Denver chapter has been great, My wife and two daughters have went with me to the monthly Tri-Ess meeting not a single problem, they are a very accepting group and alot of fun to be around.

[Crisack]

I didn't think it would be a problem joining, it just drives me crazy that someone would judge someone else on their sexual preference. Now before I go on, I'd like to point out that I understand that it is a support group for HETEROSEXUAL crossdressers. I think it's great to have a support group so the bylaws don't irritate me as much as when I first read them. The first thought that hit me was "What? only guys that are 40+, married with grown kids are okay to wear a dress?" The statistics that are floating around the net show that bi and gay CD are not as prevelant as hetero ones so it would make sense that the bigger support group would be directed towards that group. No hard feelings.

I swear though, that the first time another CD tells me that I make other CD look bad because I don't follow their "norm's", I'm sticking my 4" heels up where the sun don't shine. I'm kidding. It would be my steel toe work boot, my heels are to pretty =)

I'm sure one on one, or even in a small group, they are a great group of people. We all come from all walks so it seems it would just boil down to a chemistry thing. Just wouldn't want anyone to formulate an opinion about my character by considering who I sleep with. Does that make sense?

Anyways, I was looking for support to help me with my image, not sort out any sexual feelings. I think alot of things I was looking for I found here (thanks to all the admins for the work....even if they do drive a car and not a soft tail) so I'm not really worried about it. Now if I could just get my foundation to look like Dana.....


One last thing, This is not a slight against Tri Ess in any form or fashion, merely had a question.

[BethGG]

I just finished reading "My Husband Betty", where the author talks a lot about Tri-Ess, and how she doesn't like it, the heterosexuals only policy being one of the reasons. I personally would not really want to support an organization that discriminates :mad:

[Maureen Henley]

I was a member of Chi Epsilon Sigma (Chesapeake region) for a few years. I don't think of the policy as discrimination, but more of one of focus. TalkwithMelissa hit the nail on the head, so to speak, when she mentioned about SO's having a lot to deal with with a newly uncloseted CD spouse. I think the presence of flamboyant gay CD's (much nicer than drag queens), and transsexuals would be a bit much for a spouse still wondering to what extent her husband is transgendered. The presence of like-minded CD's and SO's would be much more reassuring to such an uncertain spouse. of course, discrimination is a matter of perception, but I don't think it is a denial of acceptance or validity that dictates Tri-ess's policy.

[Sharon]

I think the presence of flamboyant gay CD's (much nicer than drag queens).......

Flamboyant? Flamboyant?????

You're off my Christmas list for that one.

[Yes I am]

...I'm sorry, but with all their security, it seems that Tri-Ess is just a bigger closet....

I got the same vibe reading their website, and they have so many rules. I'm a guy that likes to dress like a chick, I have a very low tolerance for rules.

[Cathy Anderson]

I didn't think it would be a problem joining, it just drives me crazy that someone would judge someone else on their sexual preference.

Well, isn't that itself judging someone? Really, if you just said "I don't like it when others judge" then that's pretty ordinary. But you said "it drives me crazy"--which could be a sign that you have some issues with judging (as we all do) -- just a word to the wise

Anyway, with Tri Ess one has to understand an important motivation: For the married CD who wants his wife's tolerance and 'permission' to attend meetings etc., it helps reassure her that the group is officially for heterosexual CDs. I think that's the main issue. That way she doesn't worry that her husband is going to get 'hit on' by other guys, etc.

So seen in that light the policy is more understandable. It's having the policy "on paper" that accomplishes that. But at the level of actual groups, meetings -- and in terms of most individual members -- it often isn't expressed, felt, believed, taken seriously, etc. in any way.

> is why you have to be heterosexual to be a voting member?

This is an example of what I mean. It could be seen as a clever and diplomatic compromise. By saying this, it reassures wives and potentially homophobic members. But, really, it's no big deal not to have "voting privileges." Its not like it makes a difference! Again, you could of course see this as a big principle and object -- but you could also choose to see it as a clever and diplomatic workaround for a potentially difficult issue.

Cathy

[VeronicaMoonlit]

I just finished reading "My Husband Betty", where the author talks a lot about Tri-Ess, and how she doesn't like it, the heterosexuals only policy being one of the reasons. I personally would not really want to support an organization that discriminates :mad:

In Tri-Ess's defense, they don't discriminate, gay/bi cd's and transitioners just can't be full members with voting privileges.

My issues with Tri-Ess are:

They could be a bit less focused on the older married crossdressers, there are single ones and ones in their 20's and 30's.

The leadership is too conservative and resistant to change and new ideas. They also tend to close their ears to criticism.

The membership is aging and dropping, a trend that's been going on since the mid 80's when membership was at it's peak. Thats right, there's fewer members now than there were 20 years ago.

Theres a bit of a focus on "protecting wives" from things that might upset them which is in part why the "No poofters" policy is in effect. It's a bit "father knows best"

There's also a tendency to encourage the wife to gatekeep in some Tri-Ess writings.

This does not mean that individual members and chapters can't be supportive and friendly


Veronica

[VeronicaMoonlit]

Is it still the case that " bearded ladies and the like are not how we present ourselves."?

Yes.

And would there be meetings where I would be forbidden to appear en femme?

As far as I know, if the chapter has a "couples meeting" those tend to be non-crossdressing. SPICE conferences are also no-crossdressing events.

I'm sorry, but with all their security, it seems that Tri-Ess is just a bigger closet.

It is, it is. But some CD's need that.


Veronica

[VeronicaMoonlit]

But at the level of actual groups, meetings -- and in terms of most individual members -- it often isn't expressed, felt, believed, taken seriously, etc. in any way.

That is quite true, but if it's not taken seriously why have it. We the members and former members know about the members who stopped in for 10 minutes to have cover with the wife and then headed out to a tranny bar to flirt with men. Or the chapter officer who's taking hormones. Tri-Ess needs to be more than just a group of guys who watch another repetitive presentation on wigs and then sit around talking about their sailboats and cessnas or head to the hotel bar, drink too much booze and talk about their military careers. When you can have a chapter meeting within walking distance in flat shoes of a large shopping emporium and there's no talk of "field trips" to help encourage the shyer gals that going out shopping is not a big deal.

It could be seen as a diplomatic strategy. By saying this, it reassures wives and potentially homophobic members. But, Again, you could of course see this as a big principle and object -- but you could also choose to see it as a clever and diplomatic workaround for a potentially difficult issue.

Cathy

Again, true. But why cater to homophobia or try to "protect" SO's or conceal certain aspects of TG behavior from them? And what's the use of having it if the majority of wives and SO's don't come anyway. You might have 40 or 50 CD's in the room and maybe a half a dozen wives at most.

Tri-Ess needs new blood, but it's very nature actually discourages that.

Veronica

[Crisack]

I know for me, the last time I thought I was wise, I became jaded.

Well, isn't that itself judging someone? Really, if you just said "I don't like it when others judge" then that's pretty ordinary. But you said "it drives me crazy"--which could be a sign that you have some issues with judging (as we all do) -- just a word to the wise

"it drives me crazy" is not a sign that I have issues with judging. Growing up outside of the social norms (beyond the gender/sexual ones some of you can relate to) is definately a sign I have issues with it. HUGE issues with it. It does drive me crazy when someone that is like me tells me I'm not. I also like having masculine built arms, does that mean that I shouldn't be using blue eye shadow? I know that doesn't make sense, but If you were going to help me improve my run speed what does it matter what car I drive?

I'd like to finish what was quoted from myself...

I didn't think it would be a problem joining, it just drives me crazy that someone would judge someone else on their sexual preference. Now before I go on, I'd like to point out that I understand that it is a support group for HETEROSEXUAL crossdressers.

Since that might not have been clear, let me state that again.

I understand that it is a support group for HETEROSEXUAL crossdressers.

There is nothing else that I need to understand for my needs. Tri Ess has no need, and I'm sure no desire, to defend their bylaws to someone that it does not apply to. I hope their members find the support they are seeking and I bet anything that I become friends with a few of them and have it not even be an issue .

[Cathy Anderson]

"it drives me crazy" is not a sign that I have issues with judging. Growing up outside of the social norms (beyond the gender/sexual ones some of you can relate to) is definately a sign I have issues with it. HUGE issues with it. It does drive me crazy when someone that is like me tells me I'm not

This isn't my theory--it's the unanimous opinion of many intelligent and experienced psychologists over the last 100 years. Jung, it happens, just stated it best: A strong emotional reaction to someone or something is usually a sign that we are projecting. [paraphrased]

The key is that it's a strong *emotional* reaction--which is much more than a mere intellectual or ethical recognition that what somebody's doing is wrong.

You shouldn't take this as a personal criticism, because it's a probem for everyone.

0.02

Cathy

[Cathy Anderson]

But why cater to homophobia or try to "protect" SO's or conceal certain aspects of TG behavior from them? And what's the use of having it if the majority of wives and SO's don't come anyway. You might have 40 or 50 CD's in the room and maybe a half a dozen wives at most.Tri-Ess needs new blood, but it's very nature actually discourages that.

Veronica, no argument from me on that.

I think the policy is absurd. I'm only saying (1) I have an idea why it developed; (2) once you understand that, it's a little less strange, and (3) I wouldn't let the official policy from keep me from attending meetings, because I think the unofficial practice is usually different.

Cathy

[Seven]

I cannot speak for anyone else, but as for myself, I feel that we all have our own walks in life one way or another. I accept each person one person at a time and for who they are, and not for who they sleep with.

My Beloved Sister we are one word, one mind,

Love you Sis Seven

[Amelie]

I agree that Tri-Ess should have whatever policy they desire, it is their club, they can make the rules.

Now, if only there was some policy that would keep straight Cds out of Gay Nightclubs, then maybe straight Cds would have to go to straight night clubs for their entertainment., instead of having a safe place like the gay clubs provide