Feminist reading and feminism

[Tamara Croft]

Beth this is not meant to be disrespectful or insulting in any way but I am curious as to where do you do your reasearch??

I was going to stay out of this thread until I read the above quote. You don't NEED to do research to know that as a MATTER OF FACT more women are raped than men. How many rape cases for men do you see on the TV? I don't remember many, I do however see how many there are in my OWN LOCAL TOWN (and it's a very small one) are raped every month.

As for equality, you only have to look at some of the threads in this forum to see how equal our GG members are to the CD members. I won't go into details, this isn't the thread for it. But equal rights? I'd like to have some of that HERE in this very forum!! Maybe I'll start burning YOUR bras in protest.

[Christina Nicole]

Regarding women reaching to top of the corporate ladder and also board rooms... Reaching the top of a company requires years of dedication and at least 100% effort. More than 100% means long days, nights, weekends, giving up vacation time -- things like that. Getting on a board requires either a very senior position at another company, control of a large voting block of stock, or some persuasive argument to group of stockholders who can vote (or proxy) a large block of stock.

One of the reasons we don't see more women is that some women prefer not to dedicate themselves to the company. For example, in my family, about half of the women stopped working when they had children. Taking 10 or so years out of one's career is a huge impediment to the top of the corporate ladder. Assuming that is a representative sample, which it probably is not, instead of expecting to see 50/50 male/female executives, a 75/25 split might be more reasonable.

The above is assuredly not a rigorous exercise. It is simply meant to be illustrative. There is more to statistical analysis than most people realize.

Warm regards,
Christina Nicole

[Michelle Hart]

I think that's great if you've never experienced what I'm talking about, but I think maybe it also means you are not really understanding what I mean. I mean being molested or grabbed sexually on purpose(not accidently bumping into someone). Sure it happens to men too, but the fact is it happens MUCH more to women, showing that there's an issue there. In your other post you highlighted my words saying it happens to both men and women...yes that's true, but it happens at a much greater proportion to women. Why is that?

Sorry Beth, I did misunderstand. I thought you were speaking about ALL unwanted contact not just sexual. I apologize. I have experienced unwanted sexual advances in the past so I know what it's like. Behavior like that is deplorable regardless of gender. Why it presumably happens to women more often, I do not know.

If women are truly considered equal, wouldn't the rape rates be about equal? Yet it's not, women are raped/molested at a very high number. To me that shows there's a lot of women hatred going on.

There is no concrete information on the frequency or ratio of men or women who are assaulted. Most crimes of that nature go unreported and are only highlighted when the media sensationalizes a story like Debra Lafave or Natilie Holloway. Nobody has an accurate number of sexual assaults. Rape cases involving women are more commonly mentioned in the media, however that does not mean that women are raped more often. Recently the catholic priesthood was embroiled in a series of crimes against young men. Are you suggesting that men should be raped more often to make it equal? Need I mention the volume of sexual assault that goes on in prisons, Which goes largely unreported. There is a lot of male hatred going on too. Wives kill their husbands quite often for insurance or any other number of reasons.

About the Fortune 500, I think that's great that there's some women in there. But they're still such a tiny number, I don't think it's all by chance. It shows that while feminism has gone a long way, it still needs to be here, there's still a need for it.

Christina really did a much better job of explaining this than I did.

Regarding women reaching to top of the corporate ladder and also board rooms... Reaching the top of a company requires years of dedication and at least 100% effort. More than 100% means long days, nights, weekends, giving up vacation time -- things like that. Getting on a board requires either a very senior position at another company, control of a large voting block of stock, or some persuasive argument to group of stockholders who can vote (or proxy) a large block of stock. One of the reasons we don't see more women is that some women prefer not to dedicate themselves to the company. For example, in my family, about half of the women stopped working when they had children. Taking 10 or so years out of one's career is a huge impediment to the top of the corporate ladder. Assuming that is a representative sample, which it probably is not, instead of expecting to see 50/50 male/female executives, a 75/25 split might be more reasonable.
The above is assuredly not a rigorous exercise. It is simply meant to be illustrative. There is more to statistical analysis than most people realize.
Warm regards,
Christina Nicole

I was going to stay out of this thread until I read the above quote. You don't NEED to do research to know that as a MATTER OF FACT more women are raped more than men. How many rape cases for men do you see on the TV? I don't remember many, I do however see how many there are in my OWN LOCAL TOWN (and it's a very small one) are raped every month.

Research is a cornerstone of wisdom. Nobody has the actual number of sexual assaults. It is ASSUMED that 85% are unreported. That is a best guess or approximate number which only deals with women. There is no tabulation for men that I know of since men are even less likely to report crimes of this nature. Since no agency or organization has an ACCURATE number could you please cite where your information came from. So if you see it on TV that MAKES it true? Why would you suggest that just because you see it more often on TV that your belief has more merit than mine. I will concede that women suffering from sexual assault is more publicized.

I would suggest however that you move someplace else. It is Waaaaay to dangerous where you live.

As for equality, you only have to look at some of the threads in this forum to see how equal our GG members are to the CD members. I won't go into details, this isn't the thread for it. But equal rights? I'd like to have some of that HERE in this very forum!! Maybe I'll start burning YOUR bras in protest.

I'm not really sure what you mean so I shall stay my tongue. Please do not burn my bra's, That would be just to much anguish to bear.

Especially my pink one, Please do not burn it.

Please!!

No really, Pretty Please!!

With sugar on top?

Please!!

Not the Pink one OK.

[Anima-87-388]

Am I the only one who is confused by how equal rights would make rape victims 50% male and 50% female?

I agree that more females are raped than males, that's a simple fact but how are a few rights going to stop predators from choosing their victims? I would draw that females are easier to rape or more likely to get raped and yes that certainly is an issue.

I feel badly for anyone who has had some jerk grab their @$$, nobody wants to see that happen to their mother. My mother has told me of many rude encounters she's had (although nothing major happned to her) . My ex gf was molested by her grandpa and one of my old friends was raped by her uncle (they were both under 13 at the time of being raped) it makes me feel really horrible and believe me I know all about what that can do to a person...

But that has nothing to do with a hatred for women, it's just a vulnerability. I feel even worse than some GGs do about it because I share the same gender as some of these pathetic @$$holes. There are alooot of men out there who hurt MY reputation as a male and that's a big part of the reason I'd rather be a girl most the time, but you can't say that's hatred towards women. If you want to be fair there are GOOD men and there are BAD men and yes there are probably even more BAD men than BAD women, but don't think I feel unaffected by any of this.

We all need to accept eachother and work towards an equal society that doesn't discriminate against gender , race or religion. I've met people of all colors and creed , male or female and I have shown them all the same repsect I wish them to show me. "We must be the change we wish to see in the world"

I just dislike seeing this misdirected anger. Being either male or female can have certain advantages in society, also disadvantages. I know that males have the most advantages and probably the least disadvantages but whenever I hear someone base a gender argument on a single point of conflict it just upsets me.

Believe me I can't wait to see more men get raped than women and my mothers and sisters can be in a better (paying) position to help provide for their families and lead fulfilling lives, but threads like this make me feel like people will never understand what equality really means.

I'm not directing this at anyone and i'm sorry if I have offended anyone but this is just something i've been struggling with for awhile and thought it just might represent a few people here.

Good day now, it's time for me to go bake some world peace cookies

[Tamara Croft]

Michelle, I do not watch much TV, the news is too depressing. I do however read the newspapers and my daughter works for the police federation, which is where I get my information from. Do you really think the media would be so low as to make up information regarding rape?

Anyway, this has gone completely off topic self!!! Let's stick to the topic in general... and I'm going to burn one of your nice lacy bras'

[Aileen]

Most women are in favor of equal rights for both genders, and a just and equitable society, and yet not that many women would categorize themselves as feminists. Sort of like, most people want to live in a crime-free society, but very few of us are willing to become cops.

I was very interested in feminism as a young boy, because I naively thought equal rights for women meant equal rights for men as well. I need hardly add what equal right I wanted. But then I realized that feminists had no interest in equal rights for men. I really think that feminism would be much more successful were it an attempt to negotiate with men, a little give and take, instead of an all-out war.

[Ms. Donna]

Hmm, perhaps i should have asked also how people define feminism, what they think it is/means.

Me? I'm mostly a third wave feminist.

Some Wikipedia links.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_wave_feminism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfeminism

Veronica

Hi Veronica,

I voted #1.

Like you, would consider myself more or less a third wave feminist.

My leaning, though, is more towards Queer Theory - in case that didn't come through in my posts...

Love & Stuff,
Donna

[Bernice]

This is a complicated and controversial subject. I have not read much about it, and I do not identify myself with feminazis, or even with mainstream femininsts. On the other hand, I do believe women are oppressed almost universally, and that oppresion is wrong. I also believe crossdressers suffer more oppression than do women, but also that some crossdressers themselves also oppress women. Go figure.

There is much about human behavior that is frankly very ugly. I'm not sure that one gender suffers more rape than another, nor that this is worthy of seeking equality.

There are minor differences between the genders - not a binary duality, of course, but, for example, those we label genetic girls can (certainly more frequently than genetic males) bear children without medical intervention. This mere fact may tend to explain some inequlities in executive populations, because some otherwise elligible professionals choose motherhood.

The feminists who are the most vocal seem to be too extreme. Again, this is normal. Not ideal or laudible, just normal. I support equal rights, but not special rights, and not quotas, and not reverse discrimination.

I also think that minorities banding together to publicly demand some respect serves a worthwhile purpose. Some civilized people can be educated. There is hope.

Hugs,

Bernice

[Bev06 GG]

Like most causes the feminist movement goes just abit too far, and the majority of women agree in principle but wouldn't be that radical.

[KewTnCurvy GG]

I'm a socialist and pro-sex feminist. Go figure

[KewTnCurvy GG]

I really think that feminism would be much more successful were it an attempt to negotiate with men, a little give and take, instead of an all-out war.

As usual, I'm sure my words will fall to deaf ears here. But, why do WE (genetic women or transwomen) have to negotiate at all? Although, we do all the time. It is war baby. Again, I know I hold the minority opinion here, but it's you lil' boiz who started it all. We're just taking back our power and what should have been ours to begin with.

[Sharon]

As usual, I'm sure my words will fall to deaf ears here. But, why do WE (genetic women or transwomen) have to negotiate at all? Although, we do all the time. It is war baby. Again, I know I hold the minority opinion here, but it's you lil' boiz who started it all. We're just taking back our power and what should have been ours to begin with.

When I was a young, comic book reading goof, I always wanted to live in Amazonia. Queen Hera as my ruler? -- it sounded like a perfect society to me.

[VeronicaMoonlit]

Most women are in favor of equal rights for both genders, and a just and equitable society, and yet not that many women would categorize themselves as feminists.

That's because of the stereotypes about feminism: "The feminazi's are all ugly man hating lesbians" that sort of thing. So even if women are truly feminists the word itself has negativity attached to it so people don't identify as such.

I was very interested in feminism as a young boy, because I naively thought equal rights for women meant equal rights for men as well.

Actually that's what it's about as a whole, at least for us Third Wave types.

I

I really think that feminism would be much more successful were it an attempt to negotiate with men, a little give and take, instead of an all-out war.

Again, that's what Third Wavers are trying to do...in general


Veronica

[VeronicaMoonlit]

As usual, I'm sure my words will fall to deaf ears here. But, why do WE (genetic women or transwomen) have to negotiate at all? Although, we do all the time. It is war baby. Again, I know I hold the minority opinion here, but it's you lil' boiz who started it all. We're just taking back our power and what should have been ours to begin with.

The "war" and "battle" rhetoric is one of the things that upsets the "dittoheads". You have to remember they don't realize that they do have excessive privilege just for being born male, and that the privilege was unearned, and that they should give it up voluntarily.

But, I admit, asking people to give up unearned privilege and power is somewhat futile. It often takes the force of law to get people to treat other people different from them as they would want to be treated themselves.

It shouldn't have taken a law to get business to treat women equally in financial matters or to pay male and female workers doing the same job the same pay. It shouldn't take a law to get men to stop pinching their female coworkers butts.

Veronica

[BethGG]

Of course I don't believe equality means men should get raped more, come on now Like I said, I love men! The reason I say rape is a feminist issue, is because NO ONE should be raped, yet women are raped at such a high rate. Yes, there's always going to be sick people who want to rape. The fact that the rates are so disproportional towards women show me that there IS a lot of women hating going around. I don't think it's vulnerability (although that can play a part). I think there are a lot of people who want to see females being weak, and want to feel power over them. As women, we should NOT have to just accept that we probably will be raped/molested/inappropriatly touched at some point in our lives, and just deal with it. I think it's awful that priests were molesting little boys, definitly! But for example, if 1 in 5 gay people were killed verses a much smaller percentage of straight people, wouldn't that signify homophobia/hate crimes?

But it's not just that. It's tons of things. Look at sports for example...in the past 50 years women have come such a long way in sports! But still not all the way yet. Howcome in high school, there was no girls baseball team? They were only allowed to do softball. Apparently girls can only hit bigger balls, we're too delicate for the smaller baseball Why is women's football so small, considered a joke, and called "powder puff"? Howcome in gym class girls are told to do "girl pushups"(on the knees) when guys are told to do regular ones? Girls are taught to be weak(and don't even say girls can't do pushups...I always did the regular kind instead when told to do the girly ones!). I could list tons of stuff really, but this post would be too large.

[VeronicaMoonlit]

Howcome in high school, there was no girls baseball team? They were only allowed to do softball. Apparently girls can only hit bigger balls, we're too delicate for the smaller baseball Why is women's football so small, considered a joke, and called "powder puff"? Howcome in gym class girls are told to do "girl pushups"(on the knees) when guys are told to do regular ones? Girls are taught to be weak(and don't even say girls can't do pushups...I always did the regular kind instead when told to do the girly ones!). I could list tons of stuff really, but this post would be too large.

Don't foget that a lot of the progress in women's sports came about because of Title IX (here in the US) and now there are people who want to repeal it and complain when they are told they should spend as much money on women's sports as mens


Veronica