Ask a GG - Three

[Dutchess]

I did . I always loved men my entire 61 years in makeup/fancy dress ( not women's clothing though ) long hair etc etc though so ..

I think I learned and I changed - like how I see CDing changing also ..

I used to have no problems with it but I got burned bad by it twice and I can't let that happen again .

I still love Dr Frankenfurter /androgynous guys but I found out the hard way that I don't belong with men who imagine they are women . Dressing in the kink world is fine and should not be demonized nor should men's sexuality around it be looked down on . But no I don't see it as a viable choice for an identity . Or a lifestyle really .. I want to do more things than that 24/7. I had two of them I was involved with and I can't do it again .. There's no room for me in a lifestyle like that.

Alot of the ones I have known have other emotional issues that need to be tended to first also but they rarely do other than thinking dressing is a cure all . I see that here too but will never say anything .
They also seem to have issues with honesty .. in dressing and in other areas too. Both these things also affected my views on it .

[Miel GG]

Speaking for myself.

I was aware of the existence of heterosexual CDs (documentaries) before the Talk. I was also aware of gender variance and gender issues.

What I didn't know...
It was very painful for me to deal with the hiding/lying about CDing for a long time throughout our marriage and also with the fact that my husband used to borrow my clothes. It is disturbing to see that both inappropriate and disrespectful behaviors are still common among CDs.

[Liza Bennett]

I'm curious as to how many GG's here knew anything about or had any opinion about crossdressing before having an SO who dressed? And, how drastically have your views changed?

Knew about it, didn't really have opinions about it before I knew about his dressing. After I knew, it didn't change my opinion (or lack of) for other people, but I knew I didn't like it in someone I'm intimate with. Still struggling with that part.

[Di]

I'm curious as to how many GG's here knew anything about or had any opinion about crossdressing before having an SO who dressed? And, how drastically have your views changed?

I always had an open mind and with that a friend confided to me they were a CD and afraid to tell their wife.I found the forum to learn and he did tell his wife.
I met my Sher here.
I guess I judge on character of a person nothing else and that still holds.
Only view - I was shocked how many get married and keep it a secret. In my opinion that makes things much worse. I read on here - ashamed , afraid to tell.
Although I get that but it makes things worse in the long run.
So that was the only thing I found so many here ( like my friend) that hid it from their partner but want to come out to someone…...that someone needs to be your partner.
Guess my view on that is the same but knowing ( from here) how many are ashamed and scared shocked me.

[ReineD]

Before I met my SO I didn’t have opinions about CDers. I had heard of drag shows and like Char I thought they were just entertainment. And I learned from gay pride parades that men who wore women’s clothes were gay. I also saw movies like Silence of the Lambs where men who dressed in women’s clothes were portrayed as being deviant. But my thoughts were neutral, when seeing something in the media, since these things were not connected to my life.

My SO came out to me in an email, shortly after we had expressed interest in seeing more of each other. When I read the email I was shocked and I immediately assumed that my SO was telling me he was gay, so I responded that I hoped we could still be friends. He responded that he was not gay and wanted to be in a romantic relationship with me, and so our relationship began.

My thoughts of CDers has not changed much since, other than the knowledge that some CDers are not interested sexually in men, or if they are, the interest will never go further than a personal fantasy. But through exposure to this forum, I have come to believe that the CDing is sexually motivated for a majority of members, or at least it was in the beginning even if now these members are older and their libido has diminished but the CDing remains as a pleasant or comforting thing to do.

I never have, and still do not, disparage anyone over their gender presentation or sexual preferences. It’s OK to not conform to old-fashioned standards of what sexuality should look like.

[BTWimRobin]

Dear GGs,

My wife and I are finally talking more about this whole lifestyle. Last night she finally told me what really upsets her about crossdressers. She feels that we are objectifying women by our use of clothing to feel feminine. There is so much more to being a woman than putting on a dress. I completely agree with her. Her philosophy is you want to wear a dress then put on a dress. Just don’t say wearing a dress makes me feel feminine.

My questions to you ladies is have you ever felt the crossdresser in your life was objectifying women? Have you ever thought about it from that perspective?

Thank you for your input.

[Di]

My questions to you ladies is have you ever felt the crossdresser in your life was objectifying women? Have you ever thought about it from that perspective?

My hubby no

BUT reading in the M2F section there are SOME that seem to.

I always worry a GG looking for answers reads ( open forum) will think that is just how crossdressers are AND I hope their hubby is not like that.
I am being brutally honest some of the things I read here depress me.
Tell myself not everyone is like that ( thank goodness)
Besides the objectifying of women that some do I often want to ask if some hate women.

Never have I read the OP talking in such a manner NEVER but many GGs read , look for info to understand and some of the things they might find would give that impression.

[char GG]

I will clarify the same thing that Di said - not my hubby. But often things that I read here.

Not objectifying as in just "wearing the clothes".

But separate from that, the things they say ABOUT women, the fallacies, the things that they THINK women think. There are many things said here that are just so fake. Also, some CDers think women should wear what they (the CDer) want to wear and feel that they are more "feminine" because they prefer a different way of dressing. Also, some seem to think that women "should" fall into a small realm of 20 something, perfect size, beautiful hair. Many seem to want to live a fantasyland but put women in a different context in their fantasy. As Di mentioned, it seems that some just hate women.

I tend to agree with your wife, Robin. Wearing women's clothes does not make a man "feminine" - just perhaps it makes him "feel" feminine.

[Miel GG]

I think that the essence of CDing is objectification, leading sometimes to fetishism. And objectification isn't a tribute to women, notwithstanding the statements some CDers make routinely about their adoration of women. Especially when we GGs can observe how often the female outfits chosen by CDers are stereotyped and their views about femininity outdated. So I have to agree with your wife Robin. Agree also with Di and Char about feeling that some CDers really hate women.

And I think that my hubby is objectifying women to some extent when he CDs.

[Dutchess]

100% yes ... and beside the fact that I have been here 15 yrs and truly do like Di , Char , Mimi, Miel, Reine and all the ladies here, very much the main reason I stay is to back the women I see being disrespected and talked down about ( even if they are not here )cheated on repeatedly , divorced , left , forced to accept things they don't like or we're bigots etc etc and try to get some of you to see that the way many of you see us is not ok or correct and will not lead to anything good with women down the road .

We are not a feeling , we are not a dress , a ,lipstick, a girdle or a pair of hose or a submissive bimbo . Far from it
We are human beings.

I had a young dresser /self described transperson DM me on Twitter about a year ago, looked to be in his late 20 early 30s and he straight up told me that I was on the way out as a woman. That with all the giant wave of crossdressers and the t people that my kind of female is an outdated version of a female/woman and within the next century will no longer be needed .. This guy was serious too in his mini , gogo boots and a ball gag .....

That's not us /women .

The feeling that you all feel is not feminine.
That feeling you're feeling is submission and 98% of the folks here associate that feeling with women because historically thats how we are seen by men .
How do I know this?
I'm going to say it is as delicate as possible - I work in fetish. I have worked in fetish for many many years, 40+years and it enables me to see straight through just about everybody here. Some people here don't even realize it's what's going on. They are convinced that what they are feeling is feminine or "euphoria" and you're not going to be able to tell them anything different .

That doesn't begin to address the misogyny that I see here ( it wasn't like that here when I first joined ) and all over the internet by both Ts and CD'ers , and that's what really changed my attitude about this. I know it's easy for the people here to think it's because I lost my husband and my fiance died from this pursuit but that's not it.

[Liza Bennett]

My questions to you ladies is have you ever felt the crossdresser in your life was objectifying women? Have you ever thought about it from that perspective?

In my opinion, absolutely YES, Crossdressers* objectify women. (*Note: I am referring specifically to straight CDers, not anyone truly on the Transgender spectrum.) The whole premise of CDing is make yourself into the object of your desire, i.e., a woman; which is the basic definition of objectifying.

I often think about it from this perspective. I see it as if my life is one big cosplay for CDers, in which the only thing that matters is imitating how women dress and look. It's just one more way that women are made to feel that we exist solely for the entertainment and pleasure of men. It's not enough that women are ogled, catcalled, harassed, undervalued, underpaid, and disrespected in our everyday lives just because we are women. On top of all of that, we also must deal with someone in our own home who transforms themselves into a stereotyped, often sexualized, version of us, which feels equally creepy and chauvinistic.

It's demeaning when CDers say they feel feminine doing 'women's work', e.g., cleaning, cooking, shopping. Stop. We are in the 21st century, not a 1950s sitcom. Household tasks are now gender-free. I can take care of the plumbing or car repairs without feeling 'manly'. You can manage to cook or sweep a floor without bragging about how 'girly' you feel doing it.

It's condescending when CDers exclaim that to be a woman is so 'relaxing' and 'freeing'. Please. What part of our real-life existence do you think is relaxed and free? Do you think being a woman means only to decide what to wear and how to do our hair? Do you really see women as one-dimensional? What exactly is it about pretending to be a marginalized personage makes it attractive to you?

And please stop trying to convince yourselves, and especially GGs, that you CD because you admire and respect women. It does not come across like that to us.

The stereotyping and objectification of women is a main reason I have a problem with CDing in general. Personally, it's painful to know that the CDer whom I love dearly behaves in a way that is definitively demeaning and insulting to me and my gender. Moreso when I know that in everyday life, he doesn't (intentionally) behave this way.

I don't write this to dampen CDers' joy in dressing, or to force someone to stop dressing. I support each person's right to the pursuit of happiness, in whatever form that isn't harmful to others. However, because the source of a CDer's happiness feels insulting to half of the global population, maybe it's an opportunity to examine why the need to portray feminine stereotypes feels so necessary for your happiness. In seriously considering this perspective I've offered, maybe you can also start to understand why the GGs who love you often have a difficult time accepting this part of you, and why we often are disappointed by this particular pursuit.

I'll leave you with this quote from Oscar Wilde. You're probably familiar with the first part, but the entire sentence makes it so much more enlightening:

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery that mediocrity can pay to greatness.

[ReineD]

My questions to you ladies is have you ever felt the crossdresser in your life was objectifying women? Have you ever thought about it from that perspective?

In the early phases of our relationship it was all so new that I accepted all the ways my SO dressed as his best attempt at presenting as a female. Only sometimes, when the dresses were tight and short, did I feel as if he was sexually objectifying women even though I understood that his goal was to appear feminine. There are just so many ways that a male-bodied person can attempt to get rid of all traces of being male. But, I knew that my SO was hetero and I was confused when he dressed as I used to dress as a single, young woman going to a club. I wore heels and short dresses too, but this was to explicitly appear attractive to the opposite sex (or to my boyfriend if we were out on a date). Keep in mind that this was decades ago. I don’t think that young women still dress like that even if they want to meet a guy? So I wondered why my SO dressed in a way to attract males and frankly I didn’t like it. I even sometimes thought that he did want to get attention from men.

But my SO's presentation was not as outrageous as some of the pictures I saw in this forum - dressing like a prostitute with huge boobs, weird wigs, stiletto heels and short dresses, or dressing like a little girl with frilly, poofy, lacy dresses and mary-jane shoes. I agree with Miel in that some members appear to fetishize more than objectify women.

But of course we can’t paint all CDers with the same brush. Many if not most CDers here don’t dress outrageously although I think they still stereotype women more than objectify or fetishize them. I do notice a focus on hose, skirts, dresses, heels, etc, which are all things that most women don't wear any more. Go to any public event or restaurant and you'll see women dressed very casually in comfortable and weather-appropriate clothing.

I also wholly agree with Di, Char, and Dutchess in that some CDers appear to hate women, while others believe that wearing the clothes makes them feminine, while still others appear to believe that being a CDer gives them insight into what women are like or how they think. It irritates me when I read "CDsplaining" in posts that could not be more inaccurate in how women behave. In reality, women are not that different from men in how they react to life events.

And last, kudos to Liza for the Oscar Wilde quote and for pointing out that it appears as if the only thing that matters to many CDers is to imitate how women dress and look. I also don’t understand the obsession with a stereotypical feminine presentation. If CDers feel more feminine that their non-CDer male peers, then why not instead behave in a manner that they feel differentiates a female from a male? Be kinder, more nurturing, more gentle, less aggressive, share your feelings more, all while wearing blue jeans and flat shoes like the rest of us … although I do need to point out that I know many men who embody all these very humane qualities without feeling a need to pretend they have breasts, child-bearing hips, and long legs.

[Mimi]

I think my spouse, in the CD days, definitely objectified women and had strong feelings about women who didn't dress up in situations where they might have. This was especially evident in the situations where my spouse was having to go in male mode. There was a lot of envy, comments about women "winning the genetic lottery" by being born female. But as my spouse started dressing more, the resentment towards other women decreased, and now that she's transitioned, she's comfortable feeling like herself in flats, a floral T-shirt or tunic and leggings. She enjoys dressing up for occasions where it is appropriate, and many of the other women, of all ages and body types, are also dressing up in fancy and sparkly dresses, although she'll also attend these events in a comfortable dress or skirt and blouse--just as many of us GGs, we have our moods where we want to look sparkly, and our moods where we just want to be comfortable while conforming to the norms of the situation. So while her objectifying as decreased as she no longer identifies as CD, but as TG (or TS), I definitely see objectification by other members of this forum.

[Bea_]

I've seen in the last few responses reference to crossdressers who seem to hate women and I'd like some clarification on what brings out that sentiment.

[char GG]

I believe that if you read past Ask a GG responses, you will get your answer.

[Di]

I've seen in the last few responses reference to crossdressers who seem to hate women and I'd like some clarification on what brings out that sentiment.

You read the same misogynist posts we do. .
I will not give examples as it will be calling them out.
The view of how a few see women here kinda surprised me.
The only thing I can say google it - you will see the way misogynist speak on women or how they act and it will ring a bell to the few that write like that here .