There is a new lady in the office that is gorgeous. She is a big girl so she makes sure she looks good wearing a dress, makeup, and jewelry. She is now in a happy place!
There is a new lady in the office that is gorgeous. She is a big girl so she makes sure she looks good wearing a dress, makeup, and jewelry. She is now in a happy place!
In my experience, the most common responses I get are those first three reactions (ignore/glance/and look-over?each combined with no other apparent reaction). Given my height and some other structural characteristics, I assume nothing from the reactions beyond indifference. I am good with indifference.
I never assume that I pass, not ever. On a few occassions, I apparently have, and take those as a bonus.
Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one.
Eleanor Roosevelt
Kim, your comment "I never assume that I pass" is good advice. It was when I took that attitude that I was able to relax, which is super important as others have mentioned.
And I still don't tend to assume that I pass, but based on hundreds if not thousands of these "passerby" moments, and the changes in those reactions over time, for me personally I do believe the first three reactions I listed indicate that person assumes I'm genetically female. I'm sure it's not 100% but I think it's close.
Thinking about such things is not equal to overthinking about such things. I also find that doing this analysis in the moment while out in public is somewhat relaxing . It keeps my mind busy.Originally Posted by char GG
Yes, the 'best' reaction is also the most rare. I get that maybe 5% of the time. So 1 out of 20 people I pass by. Always a woman.Most people don't scan others up and down (your definition of the "best" pass) but go on about their own business.
There is a variation of that reaction that I regard as definitely not passing. It starts with eye contact, then the rake from head to toe, followed by another hard look at my face. That is a definite "read".
I used to get that reaction a lot. That changed when I added body shaping to my presentation. Now the up and down rake is almost always the last attention paid. It seems that body shape is the defining factor that makes people's minds click the "female" check box. More on that later...
Definitely agree! But I'd point out that the voice is only critical in face to face interactions. If you are just passing by someone it's a non-factor. Voice is definitely my weak spot but I'm working on it.
The other three are important all the time. My observation is that a lot of people here get close on hair and face, but never move on to doing anything about body shape...
Body Shape!
This was the thing that pushed me over the top in passerby situations. I noticed an incredible difference in reactions once I added hip padding to the equation. If you create something close to an hourglass shape, with reasonable proportions, then a lot of times even at a distance they will assume you are female and pay no more attention. If it does come down to that "head to toe" rake of someone's eyes from up close, usually the body shape will end the attention they pay to you.
I hope I can get there with my voice sometime soon. I'm doing as much female voice karaoke singing as I can these days, which is helping.I would say, though, my biggest confidence comes from improving my voice. Yes, it gave me a lot of satisfaction when I cracked the code on it, but also it seems to disarm people if something else might be off in my presentation. To be fair, I don't have big shoulders, or any other "tell" that might ordinarily give pause, because I'm pretty far into the overlap between male/female body sizes/types, but you never know when you might have missed something.
Rachel, you mentioned people noticing "if something else might be off in my presentation". This is what it all comes down to. Maximizing the feminine appearance cues, and minimizing the masculine. I feel I'm pretty close to having the appearance part down. My biggest areas for improvement are voice and deportment.
Analyzing reactions of people over the years has given me a baseline that allows me to gauge progress. It's not overthinking or overanalyzing. It's just thinking and analyzing to improve myself. If you just want to go for it and not worry about people's reaction that's great for you. That's not what I'm after. I'm always trying to improve, and their is no other way to gauge progress.
Like I said, I started this post thinking about people who want to start going out but haven't. I'm just relaying my own experience and thought processes. I've done pretty well with it so far. Your mileage may vary.
The other thing I'm delineating is the difference between passing face to face, and just passing while moving around in public with no personal interaction. I started with the latter, and I'm sure most people do. As I started to feel confident in that regard based on the reactions of people now I'm ready to concentrate more on the face to face part. Seem like a natural progression.
Last edited by Tricia Lee; 02-25-2023 at 03:48 PM.
Hi Tricia, I always enjoy your pictures and stories. I agree with Sandi. IMO, your pass ability is top drawer. You always look fantastic. It?s obvious, you are very meticulous about your presentation and it shows. Your gorgeous striking blue eyes alone would bring attention. Ditto. Continue what you?re doing and enjoy it. And continue your posts and pictures. I enjoyed your karaoke tapes?.a talented musician, too. Impressive.
Hi Tricia,
Agree. Some see it as a binary proposition, but it isn't. As Marion pointed out, people come in all shapes and sizes, and those ranges overlap with one another. The trick is to push yourself as far into one range as you can while minimizing the part that pulls you into the other and hope the average works to your advantage.
I was very skeptical about the voice part. First, I had zero innate talent for it, which is really disappointing if you watch a few videos and are frustrated by how easy other people seem to make it. Some people just have a natural talent. Second, I had the thought process that if you just don't say anything, then there's not a problem. The problem stems, I think, is that it is a confidence issue. There's always some random chance a passerby will engage, and maybe sub-consciously we work to avoid any possibilities of that, and it may show in our body language. So I made it a priority. The key for me was, ironically enough, brute force. I just practiced every day, days on end, and weeks turned into months and months and months. And I had to keep it up.
On body shape we are in complete agreement, but I don't think it takes very much. Just something to break up the lines. I'm a small person, weak shoulders and I keep my weight in check. In male mode, I don't look good at all because of it (think "scrawny", and that's a whole other tale of woe), but while fem mode looks better because I'm more solidly in that range, I'm a bean pole which would still be off unless I add something. My every day routine includes a Rago waist nipper (they last forever!), and a pair of small hip pads made for GGs ("Sculptress", made by Dresstech, I think, and also well made). I have a pair of Ameona forms that I use that are "average" for a GG of my height. Between the three, it breaks up my lines just enough.
I started out as a nervous wreck, but now I'm loving it as I got my look tuned. Some things I can't wear, anything low cut or super tight fitting, but by an large, I can toss an outfit together without much trouble, grab my stuff and be on my way.
Last edited by Rachel Anne; 02-25-2023 at 12:53 PM.
Awesome I subscribe to that.....I have absolutely no shame in being a crossdresser and prefer to be taken as such.
As many as 43 percent of all people with gender dysphoria attempt suicide in their lives. dont let yourself become part of that very tragic statistic.
Balance-Dignity-Acceptance-Responsibility-
Yes, for sure! I started noticing that about myself once I started being comfortable around people. Especially SA's will often speak to you. It's not uncommon for other random people to speak to you. I recognized I have to be ready to say something, anything. I'm getting better.
My worst voice moment was one time being in a women's restroom in a mainstream night spot. Someone made a joke and I instinctively made some random comment. Next thing I hear from a woman in a stall is "is there a man in here!?!" LOL. I got the heck out of there fast.
You are lucky with your stature when it comes to this activity. I think the amount it takes depends on what you have to work with. You are one of the fortunate ones!On body shape we are in complete agreement, but I don't think it takes very much. Just something to break up the lines.
I often wish I was smaller and thinner. But in reality, I don't want to do this full time. So I'm actually super happy with where I'm at. I'm a bit above average height for men, so that helps as a man. But I'm no taller than many of the tallest women commonly seen in public. So I'm kind of in a sweet spot for living in both modes.
If I was a bit shorter, and had narrower shoulders, and less muscular arms, I'd pass much easier. But I'm pretty happy with my "guy" persona as well as my Tricia deal!
With my wider shoulders I have to do a bit more to get good proportions. I use a waist cincher and some DIY hip pads.
I did recently really decrease size of my breast forms. I'm probably close to an A cup just from pectoral muscle and fat tissue. Now I'm putting a A cup form on top that what I naturally have for about a B cup, and the result is a lot better than my earlier larger cup sizes. I'm already top heavy, and large forms just increased the volume up top without helping proportions at all.
The karaoke pics in my turquoise dress in the picture forum has the smaller forms. I feel very confident with that look.
Love it!I started out as a nervous wreck, but now I'm loving it as I got my look tuned.
Last edited by Tricia Lee; 02-28-2023 at 10:17 AM.
Here is something that is really amusing, from my days in the Air Force as an Air Traffic Controller. For 17 of my 20 years in the AF I worked in radar, when I would be giving a pilot vectors or other instructions a lot of the time I get a "thank you, ma'am" response to which I would reply "that's sir" and get an immediate apology. I know my voice is slightly higher pitched but not sure if it would pass as female or nor when I'm dressed.
Ha, fortunate for this, but for everything else being a GM, it was horrible. I look back and laugh about it now, but because of my size, I was always "picked last for the team", literally and metaphorically. Men do a lot of sizing each other up in social interactions, which inevitably lead to business interactions.
I got really tired of it, which is why I'm happy I left it all behind.
Last edited by char GG; 02-26-2023 at 08:35 AM. Reason: I realize this is just an expression, however, that topic is not allowed here
Half the time I got picked last and the other half I was the last guy!
I got speech therapy to modulate my sentences. After that I got gendered female on the phone all the time!
I can pass wearing skimpy summer clothes that show off my hourglass figure.
Marion
When I am out with my GG friends, and we use the ladies room together (as ladies do), I gently remind them before we enter I prefer not to talk in the stalls, for the same reason--"why is there a man in here".My worst voice moment was one time being in a women's restroom in a mainstream night spot. Someone made a joke and I instinctively made some random comment. Next thing I hear from a woman in a stall is "is there a man in here!?!" LOL. I got the heck out of there fast.
In my friends defense, they tell me they don't hear a man's voice, they hear Dee's voice.
As to the whole voice issue, I figure that if someone is close enough to talk to me, they have probably realized already I'm not a GG. Honestly, my voice has never been an issue. Another fear of all of us with little real life consequences.
I'm Sun-Dee at Kandi's Land; read about my outings here:
https://www.kandis-land.com/author/dee/
Dee, right, never an issue, except in the ladies room apparently! Yes, I go to restaurants, even alone and order without worrying about it. I seem to get a lot of interaction while I'm out, even compliments and things, and I'm getting more at ease with responding. It just takes time and experience. Good experiences help the most! lol
I totally get it. I wonder if this is a big differentiating factor for a lot of people.
I was/am successful and happy as a dude. Always did well in sports and dating. That said, I always wanted to present a feminine persona, but not at the expense of my male life.
I think if I was not happy with my guy self, and I was as happy or happier as I am being "Tricia", I think the tables would likely turn.
Lucky!
When I was younger and up to a few years ago I'd dress as a goth. So people stared at me regardless of passing. I figure if they are going to stare I'd give them something to stare at. Passing was never a concern, I know I didn't pass but it wasn't going to stop me living the way I want. For the most part, life was fun.
In solitude where we are least alone. Byron
I believe "passing" means a person walking by doesn't give you a second thought. Just as if you were an actual woman.
Krisi
When out and about I stand tall and strong. In my head I say that I have every right to be here. That makes the fears go away.
But in all honesty, if there are 2 women in a store isle, I will skip walking past them and just go around. That is my insecurity showing its true colors.
I have to get over that.
Well, if you want to hear that you pass, you've come to the right place. Crossdressers.com is a lovely, safe feel good about being a crossdresser place. So we'll all support what you want to hear, and say what you want us to say.
But, really now. Look in the mirror, and perhaps take a video of yourself walking and moving about the house, (just tape your phone to a wall or something) and you will know if you pass.
If you don't, well, don't feel bad at all. >99% of us don't have a chance of passing, and most of us are okay with that.
None of those indicate that you pass. All it means is that they have no reason or need, to talk to you at the moment.- Doesn't even look at me directly (good)
- Glances at me then moves on (great)
- Looks at me, then scans me from head to toe and moves on with no other reaction (Best)
Some causes of crossdressing you've probably never even considered: My TG biography at:http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...=1#post1490560
There's an addendum at post # 82 on that thread, too. It's about a ten minute read.
Why don't we understand our desire to dress, behave and feel like a girl? Because from childhood, boys are told that the worst possible thing we can be, is a sissy. This feeling is so ingrained into our psyche, that we will suppress any thoughts that connect us to being or wanting to be feminine, even to the point of creating separate personalities to assign those female feelings into.
Whenever I dress and take an initial look I don't think I look very good. When I go out I seem to look better. Perhaps it's the light. Same think happened to me yesterday. I wen shopping and no one seemed to notice. I just assume I pass and relax.
Wow! Omniscient, and a mind reader! LOL
Exactly!
That's what I'm getting at with the original post. It's a mixture of you presenting well enough combined with a passerby not paying enough attention to read you. The better the presentation the less attention you will get. If something is off then the attention level increases and you get clocked. It's easy to tell when that happens.
I spent enough years not passing in this context to generally know when I do. It's obviously not 100% accurate since I'm not a mind reader like some here.
Last edited by Tricia Lee; 03-02-2023 at 06:14 PM.
Yes. And some of the things crossdressers often do that are "off" are dressing inappropriately for the time and place. Wearing heels to the grocery store for one. Too much makeup or jewelry ot too short of a skirt.
To increase the likelihood of passing, one has to dress and act like a woman would in that situation.
Krisi
Personally, I like being noticed. I specifically recall two instances when I noticed women dressed better than typical. One was in the airport at my gate, and one was in the grocery store. I paid compliments to both and they both appreciated that I noticed. People seem to think all attention is negative. I have been out a lot last year. In my experience, the attention I received was good. I did not have a single negative reaction, and I am sure I was clocked many times. It is not an issue as far as I am concerned.
Sandi
I like being noticed too Sandi and sometimes I dress to make sure I get noticed. Like you I have never had a bad reaction.
"Care about what other people think of you and you will always be their prisoner" - Lao Tzu
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