Rant: People Calling Me "Sir"

[Jamie001]

How can I get people to stop calling me "Sir"? I am gclearly ender non conforming and being addressed as "Sir" makes me angry for 2 reasons:

1. My gender is ambiguous (I am wearing a skirt, nail polish, and earrings)

2. The word "Sir" has advanced age connotations that I do not appreciate. When growing up, I was told to call the elderly "Sir or Ma'am".

I usually correct people immediately upon the first infraction and explain that I'm gender non-conforming or I just do not respond to being addressed in that manner.

Why do store clerks need to say "thank you Sir"? Why can't they just look you in the eye and say "thank you have a nice day" or something similar.

Why in the hell do people need to acknowledge their perception of my gender when addressing me?

How do I make it stop?

[docrobbysherry]

Jamie, you've been here longer than I. So, you're no teenager!

I think you're being over sensitive. U need to look in a mirror before u go out. Then, remember that is what everyone is going to see.

If you're dressed androgenous why r u upset when people see a man? Heck, when I go out I try to be as fem as possible. And I still get "Sir-ed" occasionally. But, I realize I'm a MIAD so it doesn't bother me. If servers and SA's r polite and helpful why should it? They're doing the best they can. And, I have a mirror!

[char GG]

It may be a regional thing. Where I live, people don't say "sir" or "mam", they usually skip that part and just say, "have a nice day".

You really can't control how other people react. You can only control how you react to them.

[Sandi Beech]

It does not bother me. Either pronoun is fine by me as a crossdresser, but I do very much appreciate it when people take notice how I am presenting and address me appropriately.

One thing I have noticed by spending a lot of time clubbing last year, young women in particular have outright asked me what pronouns I like to use right up front when they meet me. So there does seem to be more awareness overall as to trying to address people as they wish.

I am afraid there will always be those exceptions. I think I used to be more offended by grocery baggers who mammed me when I was clearly a man. Sometimes it goes the other way.

Sandi

[Aka_Donna]

Those who so are primarily a) from military background, b) from an ethnic group, or c) from a pre-Vietnam Era generation. It has nothing to do with gender. It much more a rank or class greeting. Short answer: get over it... pick your fights, this one is not worth any effort.

[JohnH]

Even though I prefer to be sir'ed, if I am ma'amed it doesn't bother me as long as I'm not called "Maggot".

[OrdinaryAverageGuy]

Most people who see a man wearing a skirt do not see "ambiguous", they see a man in a skirt. Clerks, servers, cops, anyone who deals with the public is supposed to be polite, and most will call people "sir" or "ma'am", depending on which they think is more appropriate. They also have no way of knowing who might be offended by what, so they stick with what they can figure out. You apparently look more like a guy than a gal, even in a skirt.

If you were to hold the door open for me at the gas station I'd say "Thank you sir", out of politeness and out of respect that even though you're wearing a skirt I still see you as a man. This wouldn't change if you're a teenager or a hundred years old, age has nothing to do with it.

If this is your biggest problem you have a pretty sweet life.

[Helen_Highwater]

Look at it from their prospective. You could be someone dressing to make a fashion statement. You say you're wearing a skirt, nail polish and earrings but it seems no makeup, wig, forms, heels, or any of the other items that would push your gender identity more towards the female.

And, as you yourself point out, you're dressing is ambiguous so if you don't look like you're obviously seeking to look female then the SA's have to go with what they see.

If you're out fully dressed, all the female trappings on display and then you're misgendered, that's the time to politely ask if they would do you the kindness of in future using the female pronoun.

[Maid_Marion]

Perhaps your appearance isn't as ambiguous as you think it is.
If it were, you would have a 50/50 split between male and female pronouns.
Perhaps you need a more feminine presentation to be ambiguous.
Most folks will assign gender without thinking about it.

I was just at a doctor's office and filled out a form that requested preferred gender.
Just before I was given the form I was called "girl," which has no elderly connotations!
She was surprised I had figured out the web site and uploaded my documents, saving her the trouble. I told her I liked solving puzzles.

Twenty years ago I routinely got both male and female pronouns.
Now they are mostly female. The male ones are signs of respect.
Not being able to tell the difference between aggression and respect may be a sign of Aspergers.
The Sheldon character on The Big Bang Theory was written to have a super high IQ yet he couldn't make social distinctions like that.

Marion

[alwayshave]

Jamie, Are you perhaps living somewhere where less educated people are fighting back against pronouns?

[GretchenM]

If you are dressed ambiguously then they perceive you as being ambiguous. That is, they can't easily tell what your gender is. So they default to referring to you with respect to your sex. It is a fine example of how gender and sex overlap in some ways. And in a society where gender is mostly viewed as a binary going by the default is pretty natural. If a person is unsure of the person's gender and the pronouns they prefer then going with the default can be troubling if it is different from your self-perception. It would be better to say something that does not carry a sex or gender aspect. On that count you are correct. That would be the most proper concept to follow.

How do you make it stop? Be less ambiguous in your appearance. But, I am like you in terms of gender and am a blend in my dressing most of the time. Plus being nearly 80 it becomes a double factor - "Sir" by age and "Sir" as a safe expression based on my apparent sex.

And geography matters as well as the prevailing political affiliations - we live in a country that is highly divided and opinionated and people tend to respond accordingly.

[abby054]

A wise boss that I worked for when I was a teenager told me the following allegory. Each of us goes through life carrying a bag of swords. Each sword represents a principle that is important in our lives. Some are great big, hefty swords that no one can ignore. Some are smaller swords, no less deadly but not as big in our worlds. All are sharp and shiny. At some point, our personal integrity demands that a principle is important enough to pay the price of falling on our sword. When that time comes, my boss told me, make sure that the sword you fall on is a big one.

He told me never discourage someone who is trying to be polite even if they fail. You may teach them that it is easier to be impolite or worse.

You object to the advanced age connotations of Sir. I find under my hat a head full of white hair if indeed any hair at all, yet I know for certain how briefly ago I was less than a meter tall and many called me Son, not Sir. I go to a gathering of my friends and all these old people show up with their names. Perhaps like me, more days have found you, my friend, than you realize.

[Sometimes Steffi]

I agree with the others; get over it. If you are in full femme, it might be a "micro-aggression. In adrogenous mode, probably more confusion. Saying Sir might seem to be less offensive than Ma'am.

Some other thoughts.



young women in particular have outright asked me what pronouns I like to use right up front when they meet me.

Me too, even when I was in full mail mode, but shopping for women's clothes.

It may be a regional thing. Where I live, people don't say "sir" or "mam", they usually skip that part and just say, "have a nice day".

In the South, I was routinely addressed as "Honey" by women, without a stitch of femme clothing or makeup. I wasn't even underdressing.

Those who so are primarily a) from military background, b) from an ethnic group, or c) from a pre-Vietnam Era generation. It has nothing to do with gender. It much more a rank or class greeting.

I am in the pre-Vietnam generation. It was an insult to not call adults either Sir, Ma'am, Mr. or Mrs. as appropriate. Ms. or Mx. did not exist as words.

When I got older, I used to use the terms son or boy, until I discovered that those word were "fighting words" of disrespect to some ethnic groups.

[Aunt Kelly]

Ignorance abounds. I am routinely misgendered at the drive through. Harly surprising, given my voice, but occasional embarrassed realization at the window, when they realize they've misgendered a customer, is worth all the other times, and then some.

Still, let's face it, voice is a primary cue for the gender of someone we're interacting with, even in a face to face conversation. If it's an innocent mistake, I will usually make a polite correction. If it's malicious (and it's almost always easy to tell), I will make a less polite correction, and if that doesn't change behavior, I will ask to speak to a supervisor. That's rarely necessary, but that's how I handle it.

[BrendaPDX]

Hi Jamie, I can understand your frustration, especially if you are presenting as female. I am in the Pacific Northwest and most all people I run across are very perceptive and respectful of others. I am not sure how you can make it stop, maybe only patronize establishments that respect you and address you in the manner you wish.

[Stephanie47]

As a plain vanilla cross dresser, if I am wearing the clothing usually associated with women, that really doesn't confer anything about my sexual orientation or gender identity. If I do not pass, and never will, the person is perhaps making a comment based on his or her perception of birth sex. In my neck of the woods I never encounter anyone using sir or madam. I would suspect, if a person is not accepting of transpersons he or she maybe making a point of non-acceptance by intentionally using a pronoun associated with sex at birth.

[Shelly Preston]

I once had a similar situation.

It did not bother me too much but I did complain.

I was offered vouchers as an apology.

I accepted the apology but I refused the vouchers.

All I asked was, that they educate the staff to reduce the chances of this happening to anyone else.

[Natalie5004]

My wife and I went out to a dinner at a local place here and we got "Welcome ladies, please pick any table". I was in full male mode but my blondish dyed hair was past my shoulders then.

It is all cut off now and it is grey and I miss my long hair terribly. My wife though is very happy with me.

Greetings can go any way, who cares? Trust me, they feel bad too.

[Jamie001]

Thanks for all the replies. The point that I?m trying to make is that the words sir and ma?am serve no purpose other than to gender pigeonhole a person. When serving the public, I can be very friendly, cordial, and respectful toward my customers without using these unnecessary that only serve to gender a person. Then there is the age connotation that just screams ?elderly?. Hopefully one day society will realize that these honorific gendering titles server no purpose. For example, thank you have a nice day is just as effective as thank you have a nice day sir without gender pigeonholing the person.

[Linda Stockings]

My military friends tell me that sir has become a gender neutral term, but is still a show of respect. Calling a female superior officer sir is considered a proper way of addressing them with respect. Alternatively, one can call them by their rank. The return sign of respect for the officer would be to address the enlisted person by their rank.

I respect your opinion that society in general may be behind in their knowledge of when and when not to use those terms.

[GaleWarning]

There is a whole lot of information missing from your post.
1. Where are the store clerks when they misgender you? It may be that they cannot see your skirt, only your face.
2. If the store is busy, a store clerk may simply be too busy processing clients as quickly as possible, to take the time to notice your clothing.
3. What tone of voice do they use when uttering the word, "Sir"? If it is respectful, or simply polite, I do not see the need to get upset about it, if it is not derogatory or condescending.
4. You claim to be gender non-conforming, ie neither male nor female. Why insist on being gendered as female?

Methinks thou dost protest too much!

[Jamie001]

There is a whole lot of information missing from your post.
4. You claim to be gender non-conforming, ie neither male nor female. Why insist on being gendered as female?

Methinks thou dost protest too much!

I don't want to be gendered period.

[GaleWarning]

Fair enough, Jamie. Tell me this, though ... how is a store clerk supposed to know how to address you? Are you going to wear a sign around your neck saying, I am Jamie?
Actually, when I wear a name badge in the opshop, most people refer to me by the name on the badge.
Perhaps this would help?

[docrobbysherry]

I think the sign should say , "Call me, "they" or "it", Gale.

[Aka_Donna]

Two more additional thoughts. 1_ Have you considered your bearings? I was extremely often called "sir" because my posture and mannerisms were military. 2_ What is worst than being called "sir"? How about not being called anything and just ignored as you don't exist. Just saying some communication intented to be a positive event for you is much much better than being ignored or shunned.

Really don't want to be called a gender? Don't play the victim game it's just a huge rat hole. You'll never never win. Oh, you may gain notarity and name reconnection but your negatives and "I despise you" ratings will soar thru the roof. careful, careful what you ask for.