I often wondered why it's still customary to guess and announce a person's gender out loud in order to be polite have a nice day verse have. A nice day sir or ma'am in today's gender confused society. It would make so much more sense to just leave off the gender. It doesn't sound any less formal to me.
And it's certainly a lot less formal if you're wrong.
Round my neck of the woods (Michigan, Indiana) I never hear pronouns. Just have a day. I have only been to one club dressed with the same experiences. Really the only place I can go dressed. Still working on the comfort level of going to other places dressed.
I think you need to get over this. People call you "sir" as a sign of respect. It's normal, especially in more polite parts of the country. You will not change society, you have to either accept it or avoid it.
And people certainly don't want to hear about your "gender-non-conforming" thoughts. Don't try to correct them or explain things to them. They do not care. You are only making them mad and making them think you are some sort of nut case.
Krisi
Sir is not age related. It is a show of respect.
I don't wear women's clothes, I wear MY clothes !
Addressing me is simple. Walk up to me, get my attention, look me in the eye, and say "hello can I help you?". It as simple as that with NO chance of misgendering.Originally Posted by GaleWarning
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Thank you Genifer!! You are reading my mind and hit the painted nail on the head with your response.
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I disagree with this response! People need to learn to respect gender nonconforming people. Sir/Maam are dated terms. Google "don't call me sir or ma'am" and be educated. Another dated expression that needs to be eliminated is "ladies and gentlemen". Disney and several major airlines have already banned "ladies and gentlemen".
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It is disrespectful to gender nonconforming people and simply announces the person's perceived gender which may be incorrect.
You will become stronger in the ways of the Pink Fog. May the Pink Fog guide you and be with you now and forever.
"Sir" and "Ma'am" are only disrespectful or offensive to people who have decided that they want to be offended or like to claim they've been disrespected. I've been called both terms while wearing men's clothes, and I use both terms myself to others as a sign of respect, using my best judgement on which is more appropriate. And one of those terms is ALWAYS appropriate. If someone were to call me out for using the wrong one, which has never happened, I'd apologize and use the other one, and get on with life. Just like the cop did after calling me "ma'am". (I laughed, BTW, so much healthier than being offended.)
You can pretend you're a potted plant for all I care, but you are either a "sir" or a "ma'am" just the same.
Bottom line, you have the right to be offended by anyone or anything you choose, that's your choice, but you don't have the right to never be offended.
I was really hoping this ridiculous thread would have been deleted by now.
There is nothing wrong with this thread. The problem is that most crossdressers on this site believe in binary gender. They are either male mode or female mode. They don?t subscribe to the concept of a gender continuum or a non-binary gender identity. I stayed away from this site for many years because I felt rejected as a feminine male that does not support a gender binary of male mode or female mode. It seems that there are still many members here the subscribe to the binary gender concept. The only person that understood my feelings on this thread is Genifer Teal while everyone else either couldn?t relate or missed the point completely. There has got to be a place for non-binary folks such as myself and I?m beginning to thins that this isn?t it.
Reminds me of the "sir" rant at the Gamestop that was all over the internet a while back.
Back when I was all about passing, whether I got sir or maam was kind of a pass/fail for how well I passed. It was (maybe still is) all about perceived gender. There have been a few time I was called sir just so the person could make sure I knew they knew. It didn't feel good, but it didn't feel good because I knew that I didn't even come close enough to passing that they'd even hesitate about calling me sir. I still remember the first time it happened. When I left the house I thought I looked like I just stepped off the cover of some fashion magazine, then the first place I stopped I got "sir". I knew I had to figure out how they knew, and I knew I had to do better. I didn't get mad about it.
Now it's much more common for me to go out in some kind of in-between, kind of like you except I don't wear skirts. I frequently get "sir", I never get "maam". I know full well I look like a guy. Leggings, mules, oversize top of some kind, nail polish, sometimes a little mascara and light makeup, carrying a purse. I'm making no attempt to look like a woman. The more thoughtful people refer to me as "hun" or "sweetie". Yesterday for the first time I can remember I got "love", which was pretty cool. It's pretty hard to offend me. I certainly am not going to be offended if I think someone is trying to offend me. That'd just mean they got what they wanted.
Funny, I remember another side of this gendered-reference thing. I used to get "maam-ed" pretty often in male mode, mostly because of my hair. Before I realized things were deteriorating in our marriage I can remember a couple of times being in male mode and out with my wife when a server or a sales associate referred to us as ladies, as in, "What can I get you ladies today?". Innocent enough, but my wife's take on it was, "Does she think I'm a lesbian?!!" or " I get so tired of people thinking I'm a lesbian!" Quite a stretch. Just looking for something to get mad about, it seemed to me.
Another. I was at a fast food restaurant in line behind two women, one of them with a child who was 3 or 4 with mid-back length hair that someone had obviously spent some time styling. The lady at the counter said, "Oh my gosh, she is so pretty!" To which the mother said, "He's a boy." and went on a mild rant about how everyone assumes he's a girl. I ended up sitting at a booth beside them, and the rant continued on how she didn't understand why everybody assumes he's a girl. The child was wearing shorts and a t-shirt, earrings, and had this long gorgeous hair. He looked like a girl. Looked to me like she wanted him to look like a girl, yet she at least feigned being offended when somebody thought that's what he was.
Education has nothing to do with it. Some people don't play the pronoun game and never will.
As far as people calling you sir maybe you appear more male than female.
Don't get mad at people for misgendering you because it will happen. Just because you have a skirt or ladies clothes on and make up really makes no difference, if people see a man they will call you sir.
Maybe you need to not be so sensitive about it.
Without seeing you this question can?t be answered without knowing more like do you have a full beard? Do you wear a skirt without any outher fem attire ? Do you have breasts or use something to give that look? Do you try to sound feminine when you speak?
If you or anyone go out as a guy in a dress or this case a skirt and are all male persons might identify you as a male and address you as such
If it bothers you then correct them when they say sir you say it?s mam or madam or women
Hopefully you can sort this out
Jamie, it isn't that no one here understands your feelings. I'm pretty sure if u want us to call u, "us", "they", or "it", we would.
Just change your name to your chosen pronoun!
But, u seem to expect every stranger that meets u to refer to u that way. And, that's not going to happen in most of our life times! We also live in America. A binary country that in many places is increasingly unfriendly to non binary folks.
It isn't that I don't support u. I just feel your attitude is dooming u to disappointment!
Last edited by docrobbysherry; 04-30-2023 at 01:06 PM.
U can't keep doing the same things over and over and expect to enjoy life to the max. When u try new things, even if they r out of your comfort zone, u may experience new excitement and growth that u never expected.
Challenge yourself and pursue your passions! When your life clock runs out, you'll have few or NO REGRETS!
I agree with Sherry.
Expecting or demanding people to use the proper pronoun when they really don't understand the whole pronoun thing.
I know I am confused by it myself.
I have been "out" and living as a female 24/7 for a long time. Even with HRT there are some "male markers" that people will catch and misgender me.
Remember - it is "US" who decides what can and can't offend us.
I'm 57 now, been called lots of things at school, been "sir'd" so often lost count, but after all that, still have not yet been offended
I once offended someone by "looking at them", they wouldn't have known that I was looking at them, if they we not looking at me.
In short, you can only be offended by what "you chose" to be offended by.
See all my photos, read many stories of my outings and my early days at
http://rachelsauckland.blogspot.co.nz
I certainly can accept that you are a feminine male. What I struggle to understand is a) how you can expect someone who does not know you to use an acceptable for of address and b) why you choose to be offended when someone who is trying to respectful and helpful gets your preferred form of address wrong.
Should you choose to get miffed and stay away, please do not blame us. We are trying to suggest to you that perhaps you need to have a rethink and do something to help unsuspecting store clerks.
Don't complain about the problem; actively look for an acceptable solution. It's your problem, not theirs.
Think its an area or even country thing. Here in the UK....one area will call you Duck....another Darlin...where I grew up its Mate....regardless of gender...my wife is also my mate. No offence is intended by it and I'm sorry to say if any is taken then its the receivers own take on it. Life is far less stressful if we take a more relaxed view on how folks respond to us
Unless you are wearing a sign that says "I'm gender non-conforming, please do not address me as sir or ma'am" I don't think you can expect people to be psychic about how they should address you and also should not assume it is due to some non-binary prejudice.
Appearently they are still seeing a Man in a Dress there,
Having my ears triple pierced is AWESOME, ~~......
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As a person of a Certain Age, my lifelong habit of Sir or Ma'am as titles of respect is hard to break. They still slip out. Alternatives don't abound.
When I lived in Baltimore it was common to address someone of the opposite gender, or woman-to-woman, as "Hon". But it was not common from one (straight) guy to another.
One coworker seemed to have trouble recalling names, so he tended to address folks as "my friend".
In addressing a group, "Folks" works for me, and carries no gender implications, unlike "guys". And it's easier to say than "fellas and gals, and non-binary pals".
I would suggest to OP get over it. It's probably not meant maliciously. And even if it is, why make a scene?
I have a friend who is a a fully out transwoman, but who still has some masculine features, who has a policy of introducing herself to strangers, with "Hi, I'm Mary" .
(Not her real name.) She does this even when it's not really necessary, like with waiters and checkout people.
She is a very self confident and practical woman who says she is not overly concerned with pronouns, but she likes people, wants them to feel comfortable, and doesn't mind helping them along.
She has done this when I was with her, and it does seem to work for her.
I am a vessel of the goddess. Let me express my calling to a feminine life through nurturing love and relatedness.
It? Oh my someone calls me or any other person that would deserve an arse whooping!I think the sign should say , "Call me, "they" or "it", Gale.
There are two three types of people in our world. First, polite folks who will address us as we present. Second, people who are on another planet and might call Jennifer Lopez Sir simply because they don't pay attention to anything. Finally, there are the culture warriors who want to prove a point by reminding us that we are not cis women. I let all that go a long time ago. I know what I am and what I look like.
I'm sorry but I think that getting upset for those kind of things is pointless.
You don't have control over other people's perception, if the person is polite enough to call you sir or ma'am or whatever it's fine. You probably won't be seeing that person ever again, and if you do and that person is decent enough then he/she will probably address you as you asked him/her to do the next time you see him/her.
Last edited by Roxxxi; 05-02-2023 at 02:47 PM.
On the flip side of that, when I was an air traffic controller, in the Air Force, there were lots of times when I would give a pilot an instruction and get a response ending in "Ma'am". Of course I'd immediately correct them. I've had the same thing happen on the phone when either I call a business or one calls me. Of course I immediately correct them also.
The Pink Fog will be with you, always!
A therapist once told me that my mother's opinion of me was none of my business.
I think that fits here.
So many people today are so wrapped up in pronouns and whatever a microaggression is, what other people might or might not be calling them, and why. Who cares what someone else calls you. That is their garbage, their burden to carry. You don't have to pick it up.
Why choose something so insignificant to get offended by. Getting offended is a choice, after all.
If you're out and about enjoying your day in a cute outfit, why let something like this ruin it for you?
Like I said, It's their garbage, Why pick it up?
They have no idea what you want to be called.
In most cases, they probably don't even think about it. They're response it automatic. In others, it's just the best choice their brain can make given the input.
We are outliers, a small percentage of the population. Our plight is very real, it's just not something most people deal with every day.
They don't know us or our backgrounds. They don't know the hours, days, months, years, we've spent dealing with this. They, like us, are just trying to get through their day.
I'm not defending someone that would intentionally go out of their way to make a scene, and I do understand the frustration. I've been dealing with this for sixty years now.
I just try to choose an option other than being offended. We have complete control over our expectations and our reactions, after all.
My father once told me; 'It's not wise to credit malice with the work of ignorance.' If I assume it's ignorance, even if I'm wrong, it's not a burden I have to carry.
Yeah, it took me close to ten years in therapy to get here, but it was worth it.
Good luck, and god bless.
I am Me and Me is OK!
Shelby
A pic of you in your outfit would be a huge help. That way we have proper context to help you.
Keep in mind be nice and not confrontational about their lack of experience with non binary people.
A few weeks back I saw a young trans girl throw a hissy fit because she was misgendered.
She got very loud and aggressive which is not the way to handle things.
She was one of those trans activist types that revel in causing trouble.
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