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Last edited by Reana; 06-14-2006 at 08:48 PM.
I don't know that it would remain quiet at all. Probably generate a lot of laughter or gaffahs.Originally Posted by Reana
Why would you want them to know?
DonnaT
It may be a fast way to know who is really a friend among them...
But seriously, I doubt that they would be very comprehensive, especially being in a group of males in their favorite macho jokes exercise... Perhaps, taken individually, a few of them might be tolerant but I doubt that they would understand unless they have had some previous experience or at least education on the subject. So I wouldn't speak to them as a group.
Love.
Eugenie
You're in TX? I'm betting that at least 3/4 of the people would get up and walk out of the room. One or two might cuss you openly.
This may have been covered before (like just about everything else) but I don't remember anything specifically. I was eating lunch today with our usual small lunch group and a comment was made relating to a specific business in town that is owned by a gay male. During these lunches we have an endless number of attempts at humor and have some very enjoyable times sharing that humor. The subjects can range from local events to world events and we never know where things are going to lead. Today this one business was mentioned just in passing. It was noted the high school kids have renamed the business in a manner that is not that derogatory but it still connotates a negative and intolerant attitude on their part. There was also mention of one particular item of this person's clothing (that gets things into our area). I have no problem with the kids and little problem with my friends reaction to the situation but still felt ill at ease with the fact that they think it's so humorous. Now, here's the question. How many others in this forum have had to sit by and listen to negative/intolerant comments from friends relating to perceived sexual orientation primarily and crossdressers secondarily? Since we are all considered to be gay by the uneducated that puts us in the same category when it comes to gay jokes. I've found it only slightly uncomfortable when I have to hear my friends make these comments but it does make me think. How would they react if I mention to them I'm a full blown CD as part of one of these conversations. I'm sure the table would remain silent for some time while they thought of a response.
If you told them they'd 1st think you were pulling their leg.
Thanks for a great thred. I'll be back to post more later on this. Great subject.
Haley P. Kemp
Thinking of Donna's comment to the original post, I think the guffaws, if they happen, usually happen behind the CD's back, not to her face. As to why a CD might want to let on about their identity, to a group of folks who are mocking such types, I think it's the urge to see whether this is just shallow socially correct behavior on the part of the mockers, and if perhaps they might take a different tack when confronted with the reality in the flesh, in the form of someone they know and accept in the person's non-CD persona. Not that I'd ever have the nerve to speak up in a situation like that. At least, not yet!
"Inside of every old person is a young person wondering what the hell happened."
"The best thing about the MBasic that comes with the Kaypro is that it allows variable names longer than two characters."
I love this kind of "macho jokes exercises"... lol... people don't use to say that in every joke there's a bit of truth?It may be a fast way to know who is really a friend among them...
But seriously, I doubt that they would be very comprehensive, especially being in a group of males in their favorite macho jokes exercise... Perhaps, taken individually, a few of them might be tolerant but I doubt that they would understand unless they have had some previous experience or at least education on the subject. So I wouldn't speak to them as a group.
Love.
Eugenie
I think that if you did that, first would be a silent moment with all looking to your face to see if you are joking, then, depending on your reaction, they could start thinking seriously about it. Finally, they will end up calling you weird and stuff to keep the appearences but in their depth thoughts they could even be thinking something like "so I'm not the only one".
I was at a wedding not too long after I came out to my wife. We were sitting at a table of our neighbors when one who had recently moved back into her deceased mother's home told how they were at a restaurant in a nearby city when a group of CD's (older CD's she said) came in. She expressed shock and said, "right in our own backyard." Now whether that last statement was symbolic or literal unnerved me because I had snuck out to my garage one day dressed and you could see down from their house into our garage.
The other neighbors related some stories, including one about college days about a good looking boy who dressed on weekends. Nothing derogatory. My wife and I said nothing. After, she asked how I felt. Wasn't I embarrassed? Yes and no because I sat there and said nothing.
Sherrie Lynn Pall
Sometimes I make sense and that frightens me.
Please don't let me be the last post on this thread
That was the exactly the same thing I've tried to said in my previous post. At least it will make them think about their own "weirdness", but they will stand for the "macho" pose in public. I know I would... because you never know when a friend may become an enemy and use this against you. One of the tactics in Sun Tzu's Art of War is just about this: keep a close eye to your enemies, but even closer eye to your friends - because you know how your enemy would react, but a friend is unpredictable.Have any in the forum realized that most of those other people out there have their own closeted secrets that would be just as embarassing to them (if not more so) were they discovered as would ours?
It sucks . You can't educated some one thats not willing to learn.
Plus there is no such thing as normal. Normal means to me . Is that your doing something that someone else is doing and to scare to have your own mind.
Last edited by Ipexx2; 05-18-2006 at 04:20 PM.
As you can tell, I live in Dallas and so does my older sister. One day one of her gradkids (female) brought a gay GF with her to her grandmothers house. My neice is not gay BTW, anyway, my sister had a fit. She told her granddaughter in not some many words that her GF was NOT welcome in her home. My neice asked her why as her GF did not do anything or say anything. All my sister would say to her was, "she did not want that KIND of person in her house". My sister is ultra-religious.
I was at one of my sister's church service, when the preacher was talking about tolerance and how it applied to all EXCEPT the ungodly persons. (Gays, Les, TG). Last time attended her church. I also let the preacher know that I was upset with his sermon and why I was not attending anymore. He did not like it one bit that I critizied him and his sermon.
Back in the early 90s when I used to substitute teach we were at the lunch table and a group of female teachers stumbled onto the subject. One said this guy she used to date raided her 'drawers for her drawers' once when she was not home.
The others shook their heads in disgust and remarked about how pitiful that was. Needless to say, I felt really bad about it. It was so ackward for me. It was like they were sitting there waiting on my reaction.
I got paranoid, thought they must have somehow found out about me and set me up.
The thing is we often see this through rose-colored lens on boards like this and the TG internet community, but the real world is a whole 'nother thing.
There is ALOT of disdain for this kind of behavior. There always will be. My challenge is to trascend it and not allow my self-perception to be buried by it.
In my past life as a corporate exec. I ame across this often. I wasn't out then and I didn't know where my cding would lead me at the time.
It hurts, that was my reaction. It hurts when any minority group is the object of humor. I hate it!
I don't say anthing to them. Too scared, not enough courage, afraid to rock the boat etc, etc Take your pick. Any of those could have been the reason.
Today, it doesn't happen and if it did I could no longer stay silent.
Thanks for posting this. It brings up so much.
BTW, I believe that most gay's and T's are bashed for the same reason. We're both outside gender norms. They are the gender police.
Love,
Rikki
"Every desire of your body is holy. Did you hear what I said? Every desire of your body is holy"
Hafiz "The Gift" Translations by Daniel Ladinsky
It was this exact same argument made by my sunday school teacher when I was a teenager that made me stop going to church. My thought was "don't they need God's love the most?"
That was back when I was still an ignorant kid and thought homosexuality was wrong, but my spiritual awakening has lead me to realize that love is love and God isn't as ignorant as others.
It would be like a shark atack. Talking to a group of your Male friends then outing yourself. "Hey Guys, It's feeding time"! They would all have a go at you most likley. But with a single friend, and telling them. You'd have half a chance of living. Be like fighting off one shark, you might have a chance to live.0.02 LOLOL
Haley P. Kemp
Reana:
A serious note.
I'd love to be completely at that point as I told Steph another Sister on this forum. But I'm not yet. I still care what people tend to think of me and my family. Maybe someday I'll be better off if I could cultivate your attitude about not caring what others think of me. But for now I'm stuck with the way I am. I care what others think. Maybe I'd be loads better off if I did not.
Haley
Haley P. Kemp
Hi Reana - The issue you experienced does not really change even if you are not a member (or member by implication) of the group that is being denigrated. I've heard lawyers, businessmen, bankers, CEOs say things about women, minorities, gays, other religions, whatever, that would positively horrify you. Sometimes I say something; sometimes I try to steer the conversation away; sometimes I just keep quiet and wonder if I should have done more.
You are probably right: had you come out to them, you might have shut them up and you might have caused one or two of them to re-think their attitude about gays (though I surmise you are not, in fact, gay) and CDs. On the other hand, the professional toll could very well be profound and I don't feel that you did anything wrong in staying silent.
Best,
Erica
PS: Ex Texas girl here!!!
For photos on flickr, my user name is cd_erica_f
I work in a manufacturing engineering role and I often hear talk in some of our offices that is rather colorful. Often this sort of conversation is very misogynistic or homophobic. I personally never participate and generally pretend that I was too busy looking at my screen to hear what was said. I do this because I don't want to start having to defend my opinions...well not at work anyway.
As far as people's perception of what makes a person gay or not, I think I benefit from this because when I openly wear my tight boot cut girly jeans and a woman's cardigan in public, I feel that people always assume that I'm gay. I have no idea if this is what they really think or not but I bet you they don't naturally think "crossdresser" and so my point is, being perceived as gay is (for me at least) not something that I mind one little bit (some of my best friends are gay) because I actually feel less threatened if I think people think of me this way when I'm dressed as a girly guy in public. Here's the kind of thing I wear.
Last edited by Rachel Morley; 05-18-2006 at 10:15 PM.
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The River City Gems - Northern California's largest and most active crossdressing & transgender support group!
Recently I came out to a number of my friends and coworkers that I sell Avon with. I had already told my district magager and she supported me but I needed to tell the rest of the girls and thew guys who sell. Their where about 15 people their. I was dressed as my male self though I was wearing my mary jan shoes and girly jeans. and a tught bra to support my forming brests. I was awarded top seller that day for the year. It was with in my acceptence speech that i came out. I explained to everyone everything about transsexualaity and crossdressing. I was hasseled by s few people but the rest where more amaised at my apperence. I dont at time feel i look so fem. but I guess to many I am. The photo that was used you all will see soon. but any way. Out of the 15 people their 3 of my best sellers under me asked to be placed unser another person because they refused to work with a freak. They where dismissed from the district. Two people who I have known for years did not hastle me but did ask me not to call or talk to them anymore. many others support me fully and others want to learn more. It was very scary and honestly I was terrorfied. But I am glad I did it. I have receved dome nasty phone calls from spouses, and thouse who did not say anything at the time. I have even beeen told that Some of the girls have asked to have me removed completly. but i am thankfull I have a lage number of supportters. I have been asked to take a break from selling for a while but that has nothing to do with my statis as a transexual. In the end i lost some friends yet gained alot more.
Love is like the rose,
Beautiful and Sweet,
Move the wrong way,
And be pricked by it's thorns,
Painful it the wound,
as the heart bleeds,
Feeding the rose that is hidden,
Feeding and growing till it is strong,
My life is like an open book to love me is to know me. to know me is to love me.
www.myspace.com/charlainecadencenord
I'd like to think I'd be brave enough to say "I'm a crossdresser" for the reasons Julie mentioned -- but I've already decided I'd like to step out of the closet.
OTOH, there are ways of objecting without disclosing if you're not comfortable. You can always say you don't like see people picked on.
Lena
A dream? What is a dream, but a blueprint for courageous action.
http://www.adahlshouse.com
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