Crossdressers, how many are TG

[bebe nylons]

Joanna. Your reply had me on the Floor lol. Cool reply. Hugs. bebe

[Deborah]

Oh gawd....give me a break.

Hey JaneDoe i consider myself TS....want to ban me?

[Crisack]

What's the big deal with labels? I could tell you I have a hollow cylindar with one end closed
that's 6" in height with a circumference of 3" that contains a fluid made up of a molecule
containing 2 parts hydrogen and 1 part oxygen with some added minerals.

Or I could tell you I have a cup of water.

Point being that labels help communication. Just look at the name of the site. I don't see to
many Elvis impersonators with rubber chickens posting here about the torque
convertor of a 1978 Pinto. I bet it has alot to do with the label of the site. If we, as a community, can't
decide on what we're going to call ourselves, how's the rest of the world going to understand
enough to accept?

For myself, I understand that general labels don't really define people I encounter.
It does give me a good place to start to try and understand who they are, though. That being said,
I did a search on the web for some of the sites that are easily found by the general public for
for the definition of transgender.

Miriam-Webster Online Dictionary
: exhibiting the appearance and behavioral characteristics of the opposite sex

.

Wikipedia
The precise definition for transgender remains in flux, but the most accepted one currently is:

"People who were assigned a gender, usually at birth and based on their genitals, but
who feel that this is a false or incomplete description of themselves."

Transgender has a number of sub-categories. These include the following: transsexual;
cross-dressing; transvestite; consciously androgynous people; people who are genderqueer;
people who live cross-gender; drag kings; and drag queens. Usually not included, because
in most cases it is not a gender issue, are transvestic fetishists.

Now these are not say-all be-all sites by any means but they are popular enough to be easily
found by people who are trying to educate themselves. The funny thing is that some of the
other popular sites did not have a definition for transgender or crossdresser but did have one
for transvestite and transexual. Glad we're working on getting this sorted out, lol.

[Scotty]

Not all TG's are CD's and not all CD's are TG's and not all of the above are MIA's working for the CIA, FBI, NIS, or NSA, hoping not to be KIA, but if they do then they'll be RIP....


I hate labels and acronyms.

I have small breasts, round hips, a feminine life style when I'm in private and nobody knows otherwise except my G/F. I wear short shorts at home in my back yard with a girls tank top and I do what I do......
I hang with the guys when I want to, and with the ladies when I want to - although I prefer female company over male company any day of the week...

I dont want SRS so I'm not TG but I do CD from time to time in private.

confused yet? Labels are for psychologists to identify people's traits and like anything else pyschology related it's all theory in my opinion unless you are clearly living 100% as a woman with intent of SRS etc.....Then I see a TG as it is an action not a person.

As for CD'ing - there's no steadfast law that says if a guy tries on a dress out of curiosity he's a CD- except if it becomes public and people label him as such.......

If nobody knew I was in a girls tank top and short shorts in my back yard - would I be a CD unless I told someone?

just labels - we are all what we are......whatever that is!

[Alison Michelle]

I looked up transvestite recently, it was defined as someone(male) who wears women's clothes.

So what am I? I cross-dress some but feel more female than male(TG) regardless of my attire. Living full-time as a woman is something I would like to achieve. Hormones and SRS(supplemental restraint system?) may be in my future. So I'm a CD, TG, leaning on TS.

Phew, I'm dizzy, I think it's nap time. Goodnight all, catch you tomorrow.

[Khriss]

.. the demands of Psychology (or people in general) to catagorize or identify types of behavior (to their own ends or degrees of satisfaction) never ceases to amaze me...
ie: fetishistic responces,in latent homosexual terms.... = ?
..why try to understand a behavior in its real terms, when pidgeon holeing it makes it so much eazier to condemn? I hate "lables"..I prefer "clothing" that fits me , while my fashion sense is ever evolving too...
alone again...perhaps ?

[Sandra]

Just a food for thought from a UK boy.........TG to me means short for Transgendered so that means the whole Spectrum, which includes TS/TV/CD

CD is just a part of that bigger spectrum

Therefore this forum caters for the whole Transgendered community no matter where we fit in to it

This is just what I thought, TG covers all TS,TV,CD, but then again we are labeling...

[MissAnnie]

For my part, I don't like this labeling - and I think it is hard to define the border between a crossdresser, a transvestite, a TG and so on.
First of all I think of myself as Annie, and for me Annie is a man, that sometimes dress as a woman, because she enjoy to feel feninime.
How about the label t-girl for all of us? Does it cover all of us?
Well, in my language we have no word for a crossdresser or a t-girl, so in my language I am a transvestite

[Casey Morgan]

There are way too many ideas trying to be covered by way too few words. This in my opinion is where all the confusion and cross-talking is coming in.

I can't answer janedoe's question as originally asked. But let me try to break myself down into a number of smaller ideas.

Crossdresser: yes, in that I to some degree of "completeness" and some degree of duration dress in clothing that my society designates as belonging to members of the opposite sex. There's another problem right there: does sex refer to sexual intercourse or one's physical reproductive role? And even stated that way there's problems.

Now the rest I need to define first and then answer. Here I'll use "sex" in its definition as male or female physical being. (That's where the problem is. It is possible to be intersexed, so that whole area needs to be redefined.)

Do I to some degree of "completeness" and to some degree of duration act or feel compelled to act in ways normally associated with the opposite sex? Yes.

Do I to some degree of "completeness" and to some degree of duration have thoughts and feelings normally associated with the opposite sex? Yes.

Assuming that the last two questions can be largely used to define gender, do I feel that my gender most closely matches my physical sex? No.

Do I feel that my gender most closely matches the opposite physical sex? No.

Assuming that gender is unchangeable and my physical sex is changeable and further assuming that changing my physical sex is not limited to nor even needs to include changing my genitalia, do I wish to alter my physical sex to some degree to match my gender? I have previously and am currently considering doing so, but with the ultimate result of making my body less male.

And there are probably more things wrapped up in this whole discussion than I've mentioned here. But this is why I identify as a crossdresser and a transgendered person but not a transsexual.

[HaleyPink2000]

I feel I'm a female in my brain. I am very femme most of the time. So I dress to make the outside match the inside. I'm Hetro and love my Wife of 25 years, very in love. But I'm a Cross Dresser. I'd not care to SRS.

I feel that TG is the grouping I'm in, even as a CD. 0.02

[MsJanessa]

I guess my viewpoint is somewhat different:

CD = someone who only dresses as the opposite sex
TS = someone who takes hormones and/or undergoes FFS/SRS/etc
TG = catch-all term which includes both CD and TS

That's also the way I understand it---we are all TG, some are TS, either preop, post op or nonop, and others are TV or CD

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

I can't answer janedoe's question as originally asked. But let me try to break myself down into a number of smaller ideas.

For what it's worth, I've found it helpful to break things down into (at least) three dimensions:

- sex identity -- Do you feel your body and what's between your legs is "right" (BTW this isn't an either/or answer, since there are MTFs would be like a more feminized body, potentially including breasts, but who don't feel the need for GRS).

- gender self-identity -- Do you see your personality as "masculine" or "feminine," or somewhere in between, or beyond. (Felling a need to express a "feminine" side to yourself is along those lines.)

- gender social identity - What social roles, privileges and responsibilities are you interested in taking part in. (For example the "privilege" of looking pretty, playing with ornamentation, etc.)

From what I've seen, most people who self-identity as TS or as TGs who want to "socially transition" tend to feel pretty strongly about at least two or these three dimensions. In contrast, those on the CD end of things tend to feel less stronger and about fewer dimensions.

The degree of any of these can vary and there are all sorts of permutations among them -- and not just the "expected" ones. For example, I know a post-op TS who said having a female body was what important to her -- if she was forced to live as a man outside the house that she could live with that (even if that wouldn't be her first choice).

[Tiffy]

I believe we are all TG. Kinda classes us all and then split in to different groups like transexual or crossdresser. I am a transgendered crossdresser. And the reason I do not just say crossdresser. Is because I have a 50/50 meantal split. Therefore I have two genders in me.

April Marie

[DonnaT]

Note that the following from Marlena's post is not defining transgender:

Originally Posted by AP Stylebook
transgender - Use the pronoun preferred by the individuals who have acquired the physical characteristics of the opposite sex or present themselves in a way that does not correspond with their sex at birth. If their preference is not expressed, use the pronoun consistent with the way the individuals live publicly.

It is defining when the AP should use the pronoun --she-- or --he-- when writing/reporting a story.

[Deborah]

You'll notice the original author of this thread hasn't came back to continue the conversation. Hmmm?

[CaptLex]

You'll notice the original author of this thread hasn't came back to continue the conversation. Hmmm?

I was just thinking the same thing. Opened up a can of worms, I'd say.

[janedoe311]

This forum is open to all, not just crossdressers.... I guess the GG's shouldn't be here either then??

Any comments are welcome. I am learning!

[janedoe311]

Oh gawd....give me a break.

Hey JaneDoe i consider myself TS....want to ban me?

I never said anyone was banned. Just wanted to know who is really a crossdresser and TG or TS. After all it is called crossdressers.com.

But I never liked labels anyway. This world needs labels on people so it is hard to avoid.

[myMichelle]

This forum is open to all, not just crossdressers.... I guess the GG's shouldn't be here either then??

I love the GG's...or is that the Bee Gee's, I'm always getting confused

[Wendy me]

labels, labels, labels,...see what happens when we try to put ourselves or others in a label ?? let those who feel a need to come up with them labels... do so far better off when asked what label do you put on yourself just smile and say happy...

we as a group in what ever stage or for what ever reason we do or support those that dress in what ever form ... need not put labels on each other
the "NORMAL PEOPLE" out there are way too busy doing that .....

and i have seen them "NORMAL PEOPLE" and want nothing to do with them.......

[Eugenie]

I'm not sure that I understand your comment. For a post-op transsexual woman, crossdressing would be dressing in male drag.

Indeed from the point of view of a post-op transsexual X-dressing would imply being in DRAB. Probably an unlikely situation, but who knows...

But from the point of view of the genetic caracteristics (X Y chromosomes), wearing women clothes could still be considered x-dressing.. For the uninformed public too, but that's something we have to fight.

So, you are right when you say:

Some trans women do go through phases where they crossdress before they figure out their true internal gender. But once they fully identify as transsexual women and start the transition process, most pre-op trans women do not view dressing as a woman as crossdressing either - especially once they go full time. If you identify internally as a woman, and you are living full time as a woman, then dressing as a woman isn't really "cross" dressing.

My apologies for the confusion in my previous post.



Eugenie

[Caitlintgsd]

Personally I distain from having the term "tg" as a big umbrella to cover, or a bucket to dump, everybody who puts on clothing opposite of their genetic gender.
I think that it more likely should be used to catalogize (if one needs to) a person whom might not be a ts but not a CD either. Somewhere in the middle between the other "labels". Just my 0.02

[Kimberley]

I was a CD then realized that I was TG, as described by some, and now I'm a non TS. Maybe I was TS all along and didn't know it.
Labels create such seperation

Rikki

***********
You said it perfectly Rikki. Labels try to put things in neat little boxes, something none of us fit into. (Bad enough trying to fit into a dress....) Many if not most of us carry traits of each "label" to greater or lesser degrees.

That said I have to wonder if we dont set up our own little system of discrimination? This of course could lead to thoughts of "I'm not a TS so I have to find somewhere that supports those thoughts of supposed inadequacy. I guess it could be a form of mass hysteria. It is a dangerous path to follow for many reasons.

I think this is why some of us are so adamant that everyone examine themselves carefully and really get to understand our own personalities. Someone once asked me what it was like to be a female in a male body. I looked her straight in the eye and asked her to tell me what it felt like to be female. (SHE was a pdoc. Not the one I am now seeing.) Of course she could no more describe that than I could what if feels like to be male. We are who we are and learning to accept our CDing whether it is gender based or not is so important. Some call it self acceptance, I prefer to think of it as knowing your own needs as a minimum, not your desires, but your needs.

Now to the original question.
Medical Diagnosis: TS.
Chosen Path: TG (Non op TS)
Presentation: Whatever I feel like at the time.

So that makes me fit into every single category does it not? No neat little boxes hmm?

Just some thoughts from a previously tormented mind

Kimberley

[janedoe311]

What is boils down to is that everyone has their own idea what CD,TS, TG and all others are.

Even the experts do not agree.

Gender ID the gender you identify with, could be you have your girl times and your boy times, that is where making a gender ID breaks down. But again the society needs people to be labeled one thing or the other.

Sexual preference: homosexual or bisexual. Again would like to drop the sex from homosexual or bisexual, but for now they have to work. Would homogendered and bigendered work?

Gender dysphoria and Gender Confusion, same thing?. Dysphoria is the opposite of euphoria. It is generally characterized as a feeling of emotional and/or mental discomfort, restlessness, malaise, and depression, (from an on line dictionary). Confusion: is the inability to think with your usual speed or clarity. When confused, you have difficulty focusing your attention and may feel disoriented. Confusion interferes with your ability to make decisions.

Not very flattering definitions are they?

They are labels the medical industry made up. One could argue that we are not confused or have dysphoria, but according to the society we need labels. I do not feel either confusion or dysphoria is correct.

Cross Dressers, someone that puts on the clothes of the opposite gender. One can be a CD for many reasons, for the shock value (saw a couple of guys with beards in dresses in the worlds fare in Spokane Washington the 70’s, it was a shock), a job (drag queen) or to release stress etc.

Transvestite and CD were the same a few decades ago, but transvestite is splitting off. Transvestite is beginning to be seen as a CD that wears woman’s clothes for a sexual turn on, not because they have a gender ID problem. Again there will be overlap with some people.

Transsexual: is being replaced by transgender to get rid of the sex, “so to speak”.
Transgender: A person that ID’s either part or all the time as the opposite gender, whether they CD or do anything about it.
Homosexual, gay or lesbian or bisexual: no need to define.

I’ll stick with TG replacing TS for the same reason that gender is replacing sex in government forms etc, at least in the US, TG is politically correct. Sex is an action and gender is your …. well ….gender, male, female, androgynous or hermaphrodite or intersexed, (the sex word again should be intergendered).

Are there many overlaps? Of course? Few would fit in one label all the time, and who cares it is just a label.

So are any definitions going to stay and will everyone agree? Not likely but from looking on the web they seem to make as much sense as anything.

Do not take these definitions personally. They are just a label we do not need them. You are what you are and the heck with society making labels.

Labels the society needs them some examples.
In the US if you did not want to register to vote in one of the many parties they called it Undecided, it is now non partisan. See they need to have a label. If you do not believe in god, at least as the religions in the world preach it, you are an atheists or agnostic. Again labels. I like to say I have no religious beliefs, but I have had people say that I have to believe in something, so I say I believe in science, common sense and free thinking. So they call me an atheist, again labels. I digress these are just examples.

So lets us drop labels even if society cannot live without them!

Did I get people thinking a little differently? That was my purpose.

PS I do not have three breasts, I wish.

[Marla S]

Did I get people thinking a little differently? That was my purpose.

Me not.

Though labels are probelmatic, there is no communication without them, but just cants or long explanations.

You are what you are and the heck with society making labels.

That's without any doubt absolutely true, but who are you ???

So lets us drop labels even if society cannot live without them!

If there are doubts, you just have to define the lables or make clear that everybody has kind of the same understanding. This way you can make sure your statements are understood in the right way.